Carl the Llama Posted 16 February 2018 Posted 16 February 2018 Just now, MattP said: Another reason why I find it so baffling young people are in favour of mass immigration, one of the main factors that contributes to this problem. Then again isn't this bringing us more into line with Europe? Sure I remember reading in Germany the amount of people who rent is a huge percentage. I don't know what the situation is in Germany but when I was living in Belgium I had the benefit of my bank balance slowly building each month despite renting just outside of the country's capital and paying off new car payments each month, not to mention the immensely helpful yearly boost of a thirteenth month's pay in winter, essentially if you work hard, are careful with your money and allocate it wisely then it's possible to build a living over there, much like I imagine was the experience for our current landlord class in their youth. Not so anymore though. Rent isn't a problem in that it exists, it's a problem in that in this country it's way too expensive, landlords are exploiting the poor's need to have a roof over their heads in a way I didn't experience before I moved back to the UK. In fact despite no longer having to pay back a loan on my car and just having the insurance to worry about (cheaper insurance too with my no-claims bonus and black box behind the dashboard) I find myself a little down compared with 2 paydays ago (I get paid fortnightly, one of those fortnights essentially being my rent so I assess my situation every other payday) so despite already being a frugal sort I'm looking at ways to reduce my expenditure even further this coming month, fortunately I don't think I have any birthdays or similar to worry about which will help. Hopefully that explains why I have no time for the sort of ignorance above and why I have no illusions about this country having a positive future as things stand. But of course it's all because of immigrants, Belgium doesn't have any. 1
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 16 February 2018 Posted 16 February 2018 32 minutes ago, MattP said: Another reason why I find it so baffling young people are in favour of mass immigration, one of the main factors that contributes to this problem. Then again isn't this bringing us more into line with Europe? Sure I remember reading in Germany the amount of people who rent is a huge percentage. A lot of these people don't understand immigration. Yes us having skilled immigrants entering the country is a massive asset to the country and I don't think anyone has ever said otherwise. Having millions of unskilled workers from countries where the average monthly wage is as much as our average weekly wage is a huge problem for us. People who say otherwise are in denial, it holds down wages that people are saying need to increase, it puts demands on already stretched public services and inevitably causes a housing shortage. The last labour government saw a population rise of approx. 2.5 million. Many of the problems now are a result of poor planning during that period. It is my view that infrastructure and housing was not increased as much as it should have been to support that level. We are talking needing provisions to support a city like Birmingham this just has not been implemented ever.
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 16 February 2018 Posted 16 February 2018 6 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: I don't know what the situation is in Germany but when I was living in Belgium I had the benefit of my bank balance slowly building each month despite renting just outside of the country's capital and paying off new car payments each month, not to mention the immensely helpful yearly boost of a thirteenth month's pay in winter, essentially if you work hard, are careful with your money and allocate it wisely then it's possible to build a living over there, much like I imagine was the experience for our current landlord class in their youth. Not so anymore though. Rent isn't a problem in that it exists, it's a problem in that in this country it's way too expensive, landlords are exploiting the poor's need to have a roof over their heads in a way I didn't experience before I moved back to the UK. In fact despite no longer having to pay back a loan on my car and just having the insurance to worry about (cheaper insurance too with my no-claims bonus and black box behind the dashboard) I find myself a little down compared with 2 paydays ago (I get paid fortnightly, one of those fortnights essentially being my rent so I assess my situation every other payday) so despite already being a frugal sort I'm looking at ways to reduce my expenditure even further this coming month, fortunately I don't think I have any birthdays or similar to worry about which will help. Hopefully that explains why I have no time for the sort of ignorance above and why I have no illusions about this country having a positive future as things stand. But of course it's all because of immigrants, Belgium doesn't have any. Perhaps Belgium built enough houses to cater for its immigration needs, built new schools etc etc. Unfortunately that hasn't happened here, it didn't happen under the last Labour government either and it would not if they every get into power again. They didn't have the money to do it when money was plentiful so they are unlikely to have the money with a 1 trillion debt. Again its not all rosy over their, their employment laws are an absolute bitch for employers because its very hard to sack somebody even when they are utterly shit, the unions are a nightmare too! Many large cities have truly horrificly deprived areas of mainly immigrant communities. We already had a booming property market in the late 90s due to a shortage, then we proceeded to let in 2.5 million people and not actually cater for them properly. Its not their fault but it is the fault of successive bad government planning and spending.
Guest MattP Posted 16 February 2018 Posted 16 February 2018 6 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: I don't know what the situation is in Germany but when I was living in Belgium I had the benefit of my bank balance slowly building each month despite renting just outside of the country's capital and paying off new car payments each month, not to mention the immensely helpful yearly boost of a thirteenth month's pay in winter, essentially if you work hard, are careful with your money and allocate it wisely then it's possible to build a living over there, much like I imagine was the experience for our current landlord class in their youth. Not so anymore though. Rent isn't a problem in that it exists, it's a problem in that in this country it's way too expensive, landlords are exploiting the poor's need to have a roof over their heads in a way I didn't experience before I moved back to the UK. In fact despite no longer having to pay back a loan on my car and just having the insurance to worry about (cheaper insurance too with my no-claims bonus and black box behind the dashboard) I find myself a little down compared with 2 paydays ago (I get paid fortnightly, one of those fortnights essentially being my rent so I assess my situation every other payday) so despite already being a frugal sort I'm looking at ways to reduce my expenditure even further this coming month, fortunately I don't think I have any birthdays or similar to worry about which will help. Hopefully that explains why I have no time for the sort of ignorance above and why I have no illusions about this country having a positive future as things stand. But of course it's all because of immigrants, Belgium doesn't have any. Hard to find direct figures for the whole country but in major cities upto 90% of properties are rented, which is incredible. https://www.theguardian.com/money/2011/mar/19/brits-buy-germans-rent Don't you live in Cambridge? Of course rent is going to be high there, it's a city full of young, wealthy people and I'd imagine has fewer places to rent than most, it's not exactly a surprise that it will cost a lot to rent there. You'll need to be a few quid to buy a property in a City like that as well. No one has said "it's all about the immigrants" - but that last line still shows we still can't even debate this properly can we? Will we ever be able to do so? If we can't seriously discuss what affect net migration in the hundreds of thousands will have on the property market then we may as well give up. Home ownership is always going to be supply and demand.
Rogstanley Posted 16 February 2018 Posted 16 February 2018 1 hour ago, Innovindil said: High fives for all my fellow 27%ers out there. Keep working hard people. Cheers. Unlike you though I'm not a sociopath so I do recognise it's important for people to have a stake in society. 1
Guest MattP Posted 16 February 2018 Posted 16 February 2018 16 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said: Interesting a UBI may help with some of that. Would mothers need to go back to work so soon if there was an income guaranteed during that period? Would both adults need to work? could we begin to look after our older family members once again? Actually giving people the money to look after themselves instead of expecting the state to do it badly and often at huge cost may actually have some ground to it I am beginning to think. We need to change the way we work, I am not really in favour of higher taxation but I think UBI has the potential for massive savings in other areas. Morally it is probably better to fund a family to look after a family member instead of shoving them in a home and paying some care home provider to do it incompetently!! A UBI would be wonderful but no one can come close to finding a serious financial plan to budget for it. The last party to propose it here were the Green party and when it was dissected by Andrew Neil it was at a cost of around 440billion, so we need somehow to find something about three times the cost of the NHS to fund it, that's not going to happen anytime soon, maybe in the future when the robots are doing it all but we will probably be dead by then. If it's going to work it's going to be in a nation like Switzerland, a small population where the vast majority are in in high paid work, us with 60million plus people and half of those not in full time work makes it a pipe dream at the minute.
Rogstanley Posted 16 February 2018 Posted 16 February 2018 Also let's be honest, most of you younger right wingers didn't work your way onto the housing ladder, it was gifted to you by your parents or via some other inheritance. That's almost certainly the truth regardless of whether or not you have the balls to admit it.
Buce Posted 16 February 2018 Posted 16 February 2018 4 minutes ago, MattP said: A UBI would be wonderful but no one can come close to finding a serious financial plan to budget for it. The last party to propose it here were the Green party and when it was dissected by Andrew Neil it was at a cost of around 440billion, so we need somehow to find something about three times the cost of the NHS to fund it, that's not going to happen anytime soon, maybe in the future when the robots are doing it all but we will probably be dead by then. If it's going to work it's going to be in a nation like Switzerland, a small population where the vast majority are in in high paid work, us with 60million plus people and half of those not in full time work makes it a pipe dream at the minute. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/universal-basic-income-proposals-give-10000-everyone-55/
Carl the Llama Posted 16 February 2018 Posted 16 February 2018 3 minutes ago, MattP said: Hard to find direct figures for the whole country but in major cities upto 90% of properties are rented, which is incredible. https://www.theguardian.com/money/2011/mar/19/brits-buy-germans-rent Don't you live in Cambridge? Of course rent is going to be high there, it's a city full of young, wealthy people and I'd imagine has fewer places to rent than most, it's not exactly a surprise that it will cost a lot to rent there. You'll need to be a few quid to buy a property in a City like that as well. No one has said "it's all about the immigrants" - but that last line still shows we still can't even debate this properly can we? Will we ever be able to do so? If we can't seriously discuss what affect net migration in the hundreds of thousands will have on the property market then we may as well give up. Home ownership is always going to be supply and demand. I was merely responding to your suggestion that you "find it so baffling young people are in favour of mass immigration, one of the main factors that contributes to this problem", I was living in a capital city with a huge migrant population, it's only a factor if the government lets it be, so it would help if we took the ability to remove those who don't find work as seriously as the Belgians do. Iirc this is something the remain camp made strong mentions of but got completely ignored over. 1
Guest MattP Posted 16 February 2018 Posted 16 February 2018 2 minutes ago, Buce said: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/universal-basic-income-proposals-give-10000-everyone-55/ Now that, a one off gift, sounds far more feasible and realistic than UBI. Something that could be implemented by the state at a certain age. I think you would have to invest it into something though, can't just give it people to piss up the wall or throw away down the bookies (as I would have done).
Innovindil Posted 16 February 2018 Posted 16 February 2018 6 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: Also let's be honest, most of you younger right wingers didn't work your way onto the housing ladder, it was gifted to you by your parents or via some other inheritance. That's almost certainly the truth regardless of whether or not you have the balls to admit it. Not even close.
David Guiza Posted 16 February 2018 Posted 16 February 2018 5 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: Also let's be honest, most of you younger right wingers didn't work your way onto the housing ladder, it was gifted to you by your parents or via some other inheritance. That's almost certainly the truth regardless of whether or not you have the balls to admit it. I do wonder where a lot of people around my age (26) get their money from. I'm a trainee solicitor and my fiancee is a trainee teacher and yet we couldn't dream of spending what some people do on travelling, property, cars etc. Also, working occasionally in property law in a particularly affluent area it is amazing to see some of the amounts of money parents' have gifted to their sprogs. £500,000+ in some cases. Also people by houses without a mortgage in excess of £2.5 million never ceases to amaze me.
Guest Foxin_mad Posted 16 February 2018 Posted 16 February 2018 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: Also let's be honest, most of you younger right wingers didn't work your way onto the housing ladder, it was gifted to you by your parents or via some other inheritance. That's almost certainly the truth regardless of whether or not you have the balls to admit it. Lets be honest I expect most younger left wingers expect to be given an education, a house, a car, a job, an iPhone, a Netflix subscription and a few hundred bottles of Prosecco and constant meals out. They expect somebody else to pay for it and are envious of those doing better than them, instead of working hard they tend to whine on their iPhone on Social Media or the Internet about how unfair the world is and how nasty the rich men are. That's almost certainly the truth regardless of whether or not you have the balls to admit it. Edited 16 February 2018 by Foxin_mad
Rogstanley Posted 16 February 2018 Posted 16 February 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said: Lets be honest I expect most younger left wingers expect to be given an education, a house, a car, a job, an iPhone, a Netflix subscription and a few hundred bottles of Prosecco and constant meals out. They expect somebody else to pay for it. The only things I'll give you there are iPhones and prosecco. They're both unnecessary and you can't really claim poverty while spending a grand on a phone. Houses, cars and jobs used to be bog standard expectations for anyone who wanted them. Now in many cases they are pipe dreams. Netflix is cheaper than a tv license. Edited 16 February 2018 by Rogstanley
Guest Posted 16 February 2018 Posted 16 February 2018 1 hour ago, Carl the Llama said: I think that's the first time I've added to my ignore list in over a year. Don't know why I've given him this long tbh. Who?
Guest Posted 16 February 2018 Posted 16 February 2018 4 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said: Lets be honest I expect most younger left wingers expect to be given an education, a house, a car, a job, an iPhone, a Netflix subscription and a few hundred bottles of Prosecco and constant meals out. They expect somebody else to pay for it and are envious of those doing better than them, instead of working hard they tend to whine on their iPhone on Social Media or the Internet about how unfair the world is and how nasty the rich men are. That's almost certainly the truth regardless of whether or not you have the balls to admit it. Where do you get this poisoned view from? Who expects to be given anything? Even taking inflation into account, house prices have gone up almost 150% and wages 20% on the last 15 years. How is it expecting to be handed freebies simply to not walk out of uni with £60k debt and to be able to afford a cheapish house on a £20k salary? It's not. It's an expectation that hard work will actually pay off we want. Stop defending the indefensible.
Wymsey Posted 16 February 2018 Posted 16 February 2018 Conservatives @Conservatives · 20h Patients should come first, not legal firms. That's why we're introducing a cap on legal fees paid to lawyers in clinical negligence cases, saving up to £45 million a year.
ealingfox Posted 16 February 2018 Posted 16 February 2018 14 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said: Lets be honest I expect most younger left wingers expect to be given an education, a house, a car, a job, an iPhone, a Netflix subscription and a few hundred bottles of Prosecco and constant meals out. They expect somebody else to pay for it and are envious of those doing better than them, instead of working hard they tend to whine on their iPhone on Social Media or the Internet about how unfair the world is and how nasty the rich men are. That's almost certainly the truth regardless of whether or not you have the balls to admit it. Are you seriously calling out an entire generation for expecting a free education?
Carl the Llama Posted 16 February 2018 Posted 16 February 2018 16 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said: Lets be honest I expect most younger left wingers expect to be given an education, a house, a car, a job, an iPhone, a Netflix subscription and a few hundred bottles of Prosecco and constant meals out. They expect somebody else to pay for it and are envious of those doing better than them, instead of working hard they tend to whine on their iPhone on Social Media or the Internet about how unfair the world is and how nasty the rich men are. That's almost certainly the truth regardless of whether or not you have the balls to admit it. Sounds like they expect the quality of life their elders always boast of having had on meagre incomes back in the day. 10 minutes ago, toddybad said: Who? Dunno. 1
Guest MattP Posted 16 February 2018 Posted 16 February 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, ealingfox said: Are you seriously calling out an entire generation for expecting a free education? Think he means tuition fees. Everyone does get a free education while they are a child already, presume he means adults demanding free education beyond the age of 18. Edited 16 February 2018 by MattP
Rogstanley Posted 16 February 2018 Posted 16 February 2018 All. Can I ask that we redouble our efforts to ensure the historic 500th page of this great thread is as good as it can be. Thanks.
Webbo Posted 16 February 2018 Posted 16 February 2018 1 minute ago, Rogstanley said: All. Can I ask that we redouble our efforts to ensure the historic 500th page of this great thread is as good as it can be. Thanks. Its okay, I'm here now. 1
Guest Kopfkino Posted 16 February 2018 Posted 16 February 2018 The housing crisis will destroy the Conservatives if they don't get their act together on it. It wouldn't be quite so bad for them if failing to tackle it didn't mean leaving the door open for people who openly wish to confiscate property. In fact, they'd do well to watch the great woman's 1983 election broadcast.
Guest MattP Posted 16 February 2018 Posted 16 February 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, Kopfkino said: The housing crisis will destroy the Conservatives if they don't get their act together on it. It wouldn't be quite so bad for them if failing to tackle it didn't mean leaving the door open for people who openly wish to confiscate property. In fact, they'd do well to watch the great woman's 1983 election broadcast. Absolutely, it's good politics as well as good for the public.Conservatives lead massively among home owners when it comes to votes, they should be doing everything possible to create them. And as you say, look at the door it's opening to extremists by not doing so. Edited 16 February 2018 by MattP
Izzy Posted 16 February 2018 Posted 16 February 2018 For all this talk of a housing crisis, all I see is new houses being built everywhere. Whenever we go back home to visit family in Lutterworth, we comment on how big it’s becoming and there’s new estates extending at both ends of the town. Down here it’s the same, my local towns are unrecognisable come compared to when we moved here 15 years ago. I keep reading in here that no one can get on the property ladder these days, but how come all these houses are occupied? Doesn’t add up to me...
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