Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[urban.spaceman]

[UpTheLeagueFox]

12 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Honey came in and she caught me red-handed
Creeping with the girl next door
Picture this we were both butt naked
Banging on the bathroom floor

 

* Ode to Diane Abbott, with apologies to Shaggy.

[Nick]

2 hours ago, MattP said:

Who are the "others killed by Mossad agents in Paris in 1991" then? That's a quote from his own Morning Star article about the event and even his supporters can't try and claim that Jeremy Corbyn is now being smeared by Jeremy Corbyn.

 

The bloke isn't fit to even be an MP, let alone the Prime Minister. You can't just erase his history, he has to be held to account for it. Maybe if he was 17 or something, but this is a fully grown man.

 

I thought it was all about peace and remembering the dead - all of them. A bit like the white poppy but hey ho. 

[Voll Blau]

What a wonderful endorsement...

 

Quote

Johnson has so far refused requests to apologise for the comments, leading to the BNP praising him for "styling himself on the new model" established by Trump.

"Could it be that Boris has not only taken to heart the President’s endorsement, but also a queue from his unorthodox, straight-talking popularist rhetoric?" a post published on the party's website on Sunday states.

 

http://uk.businessinsider.com/bnp-backs-boris-johnson-britain-trump-burqa-muslim-women-2018-8

 

Reported spike in attacks against women in Muslim headwear since his comments too, according to that report. But "it's all about starting a debate" though, so that's alright. 

[Guest MattP]

2 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

I thought it was all about peace and remembering the dead - all of them. A bit like the white poppy but hey ho. 

I honestly don't know how to respond to that, I can't really see any similarity at all between wearing a white poppy and turning up at the graves of people who massacred innocent athletes (and then confirming that in an article later on). Even it was some bizarre misguided attempt at showing support for peace you would surely visit the graves of the murdered athletes as well?

 

I'm not sure he realises how things affect people, he should have a read or meet the relatives of the people who were murdered - https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/munich-widows-jeremy-corbyn-has-no-place-in-politics-or-in-decent-humane-society-1.468241

 

His office has now gone full Trump, just outright lie about it and hope his supporters carry on supporting him, which most will. I'd have a lot more respect if they just said they are voitng for him because they hate the Tories and they don't care about all the bigotry/anti-semitism/terrorist links/holocaust denying friends that comes with him. At least that would be honest.

[Nick]

15 minutes ago, MattP said:

I honestly don't know how to respond to that, I can't really see any similarity at all between wearing a white poppy and turning up at the graves of people who massacred innocent athletes (and then confirming that in an article later on). Even it was some bizarre misguided attempt at showing support for peace you would surely visit the graves of the murdered athletes as well?

The Tunis visit first hit the headlines during last year’s general election campaign. Mr Corbyn said at that time: “I was in Tunisia at a Palestinian conference and I spoke at that Palestinian conference and I laid a wreath to all those that had died in the air attack that took place on Tunis, on the headquarters of the Palestinian organisations there.

“And I was accompanied by very many other people who were at a conference searching for peace.”

[Guest MattP]

41 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

The Tunis visit first hit the headlines during last year’s general election campaign. Mr Corbyn said at that time: “I was in Tunisia at a Palestinian conference and I spoke at that Palestinian conference and I laid a wreath to all those that had died in the air attack that took place on Tunis, on the headquarters of the Palestinian organisations there.

“And I was accompanied by very many other people who were at a conference searching for peace.”

And given his article in the Morning Star which he wrote we know that excuse is complete lie.

[breadandcheese]

54 minutes ago, MattP said:

I honestly don't know how to respond to that, I can't really see any similarity at all between wearing a white poppy and turning up at the graves of people who massacred innocent athletes (and then confirming that in an article later on). Even it was some bizarre misguided attempt at showing support for peace you would surely visit the graves of the murdered athletes as well?

 

I'm not sure he realises how things affect people, he should have a read or meet the relatives of the people who were murdered - https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/munich-widows-jeremy-corbyn-has-no-place-in-politics-or-in-decent-humane-society-1.468241

 

His office has now gone full Trump, just outright lie about it and hope his supporters carry on supporting him, which most will. I'd have a lot more respect if they just said they are voitng for him because they hate the Tories and they don't care about all the bigotry/anti-semitism/terrorist links/holocaust denying friends that comes with him. At least that would be honest.

The Labour press office might as well have just released the Trump statement from July.  "What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening."  It doesn't matter if Corbyn himself wrote about the visit to Tunisia and visiting the graves of "others killed by Mossad agents in Paris in 1991".  It's fake news.

 

A genuine question for Corbynistas. With the behaviour and scale of the labour leadership when it comes to covering up and closing ranks in order to protect people at the top, why do you still have faith in the current Labour leadership when it comes to governance of the country?  Is it is not a frightening example of how they would behave if they were to be in charge of our banks and utilities  companies (as they aspire to)?  

 

Bearing in mind that I ask this question full well in the knowledge that this is a poor Tory government in power.

[Innovindil]

https://www.retaildetail.eu/en/news/elektronica/eu-aims-abolish-planned-obsolescence

 

Can we keep this one once it's in effect please. 

 

Long overdue. 

[Guest MattP]

His story has changed now, saying he didn't participate in the wreath laying

[Guest Foxin_mad]

What a top bloke Jeremy is!

 

Cant wait until he leads our mighty nation. 

[Guest MattP]

 

That's now three different versions he's given. 

[leicsmac]

I See You doing a bangupjob of spiking my personal favourite political figure and how he's playing into UK politics:

 

"I see you, Steve Bannon.

 

I see your leather jackets, your tousled hair, your sickly face. You’re a man perpetually on the verge of retching, your throat forever tickled by a body full of bile. You always look one dodgy cough off a full shart, Steve Bannon, a mouldering slab of bin meat that’s loosely holding itself together into a bad John Goodman impersonation. White supremacy has never been so grey and shiny, like the contents of a toilet bowl after a socialite’s clay cleanse.

 

Never mind all that though - it’s not like you to let being six Horcruxes down stop you, is it? There’s just enough gas left in the windbag to carry on farting all over basic human decency well into your dying hours. Having been bumped out of the Trump inner circle you’ve set yourself a new target in Europe and your greasy little fingers are already leaving their skidmarks. Boris Johnson may be the one making the headlines, but his flirtation with provocation is straight out of your playbook - a toe in the waters of moral outrage, knowing full well that the backlash would be an explosion of media analysis and attack that both raises his stock and infuriates those he’s trying to appeal to.

 

Once again, it’s wrapped in a joke, and it becomes an issue of ‘free speech’ as opposed to a very careful and deliberate political experiment. Never mind that he’s a politician, not a comedian; the fact that it’s supposed to be his calling to empower and elevate people rather than ridicule and divide them becomes irrelevant. All that matters is that we can say what we like, and it’s the left that are the true fascists for suggesting otherwise.

 

Can you imagine the role reversal if John McDonnell had written an article taking the piss out of the yamulke? He’d be out on his arse so fast he’d be picking gravel out of his taint before Margaret Hodge had finished spitting her tea out. Boris isn’t shifting focus from the Brexit he helped cause for no reason - he’s deliberately writing articles that court the right, winding them up over a relative non-issue so he can step into the gaping competence void May’s downfall leaves behind. He’ll waltz in on the false impression that he’s a no-nonsense hero who sneers at the PC elites and says what he thinks. That what he says is entirely dependent on what’s politically expedient for his career at that given moment will pass his supporters by, and if we’re dumb enough to think he won’t win votes for it, the joke is on us.

 

The burqa isn’t beyond debate provided it’s an honest one. But make no mistake, Steve Bannon - Boris didn’t take a leaf out of your book by ridiculing it because he gives a shit about women. He did it because it serves him to do so, emotionally manipulating the issue on the tacit advice of a master who knows exactly how to play identity politics off those who find them absurd.

 

I see them, Steve Bannon, the four travellers on your yellow brick road, their arms linked, their legs swinging. I see Nigel Farage, with his luscious mane and constantly braying mouth, desperate for the courage to actually stick it out with politics rather than run away to talk radio from every mess he creates. I see Jacob Rees-Mogg, desperate for a heart so he can recapture the brief flutter of genuine empathy he felt as a child when his nanny smiled at him. I see Boris, with his unkempt mop of straw for a head, desperate for the brain that will help him calculate just how to manoeuvre around the poor ditz in their centre.

Theresa May, with her sparkly heels, completely out of her depth in this upside-down Brexit world. She didn’t vote for it and doesn’t much care for it. All she wants is to go home. She’s not in the Home Office any more, is she, Toto?

 

And at the end of the road? It’s curtains for her, and behind the curtain for her three companions. They're here to fawn at your altar, to borrow your megaphone in order to turn their feeble whining into a roaring call to arms. You’re the wizard in the wings, Steve Bannon, a cackling liar peddling smoke and mirrors and misdirection. You’ll divide the kingdoms and keep the minions warring, safe in the knowledge that the flying monkeys will shriek their outrage and descend on any target you send their way.

 

Who needs facts when you’ve got noise and the gnashing of teeth, after all?

 

I see you, Steve Bannon. I fvcking see you."

[Guest MattP]

Some of that is interesting and well written, some of it is absolutely ludicrous. 

 

McDonnell would be kicked out of the Labour party for making a joke about the yalmulke? - this lot don't kick backbenchers out who said moving Israel to America was problem solved or cavorting with holocaust deniers.

 

More class war bullshit about Rees-Mogg as well, always the same. Yet again with Farage as well - he wanted a job on the Brexit negotiation, this is fact, on the record.

 

Edited 13 August 2018 by MattP

[leicsmac]

19 minutes ago, MattP said:

Some of that is interesting and well written, some of it is absolutely ludicrous. 

 

McDonnell would be kicked out of the Labour party for making a joke about the yalmulke? - this lot don't kick backbenchers out who said moving Israel to America was problem solved or cavorting with holocaust deniers.

 

More class war bullshit about Rees-Mogg as well, always the same. Yet again with Farage as well - he wanted a job on the Brexit negotiation, this is fact, on the record.

 

 

Mixing hyperbole with some very salient points is rather the idea of satire, I think.

 

But one thing that should be taken from it is that the scope of Bannon's ambition, if not his ability to make it happen, should not be underestimated.

[Guest MattP]

6 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

But one thing that should be taken from it is that the scope of Bannon's ambition, if not his ability to make it happen, should not be underestimated.

Well if it's Boris v Corbyn and Bannon backs the former he's in the right, I doubt Johnson will get too close to him, I still don't think there is any evidence whatsoever he had anything to do with that article, that just seems to be a figment of the imagination, I'm imagine Bannon favours a ban for a start.

 

I think he should stick to America and not get involved in this, but let's not underestimate the hard left here either, Corbyn's director of communications is Seumas Milne, basically a left-win version of Bannon. Some of the stuff he's written for the Guardian has been quite shocking.

[leicsmac]

8 minutes ago, MattP said:

Well if it's Boris v Corbyn and Bannon backs the former he's in the right, I doubt Johnson will get too close to him, I still don't think there is any evidence whatsoever he had anything to do with that article, that just seems to be a figment of the imagination, I'm imagine Bannon favours a ban for a start.

 

I think he should stick to America and not get involved in this, but let's not underestimate the hard left here either, Corbyn's director of communications is Seumas Milne, basically a left-win version of Bannon. Some of the stuff he's written for the Guardian has been quite shocking.

I would hope Boris wouldn't get too close to him either, but if he promises him a PR perfect storm ala Trump with the probability of power at the end, who knows?

 

Re Milne, if he had an iota of the reach that Bannon has displayed (like getting his man into the most powerful position on Earth) then I'd be a little more fazed; as it is, I'd rather deal with the more powerful threat first.

[Guest MattP]

8 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I would hope Boris wouldn't get too close to him either, but if he promises him a PR perfect storm ala Trump with the probability of power at the end, who knows?

 

Re Milne, if he had an iota of the reach that Bannon has displayed (like getting his man into the most powerful position on Earth) then I'd be a little more fazed; as it is, I'd rather deal with the more powerful threat first.

If it's Bannon/Boris or Corbyn/Milne I'll be cheering the former on.

 

But I don't see the Conservative party getting close to him, it's far too risking and they've already seen what can happen when major political party gets close to the fringes of whatever side of the divide they are on.

Edited 13 August 2018 by MattP

[Wymsey]

[Strokes]

5 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

What a wonderful endorsement...

 

 

http://uk.businessinsider.com/bnp-backs-boris-johnson-britain-trump-burqa-muslim-women-2018-8

 

Reported spike in attacks against women in Muslim headwear since his comments too, according to that report. But "it's all about starting a debate" though, so that's alright. 

Talking of ringing endorsements....

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/998359/Jeremy-Corbyn-news-anti-semitism-labour-party-news

 

JEREMY Corbyn's 2015 leadership victory was praised by a former Ku Klux Klan leader who said it was a sign Labour supporters were recognising “Zionists’ power” and “Jewish establishment power” in shocking unearthed comments.

Embattled Jeremy Corbyn faces further controversy today over his failure to act against anti-Semitism after it emerged white supremacist David Duke endorsed his leadership back in 2015.

Duke, who led a branch of the KKK based in Louisiana in the 1970s, told listeners to his radio show in 2015: “It’s a really good kind of evolutionary thing, isn’t it, when people are beginning to recognise Zionist power and ultimately the Jewish establishment power in Britain and in the western world.”

His comments were discovered by the Harry’s Place blog in a promotion for Duke’s show on his website, according to The Times, amid the heated Labour anti-semitism row.

They read: “Corbyn was elected over the weekend despite a massive smear campaign by Britain’s Zio-establishment over his association with anti-Zionist activists. 

 

Corbyn’s landslide victory in the leadership election can be viewed as a positive sign that understanding of the harm being done to the world by Zionism is spreading.”

Duke’s comments came as he spoke to anti-Israel activist James Thring, who was once at a meeting in parliament organised by Mr Corbyn. 

Mr Thring said that although Mr Corbyn did not “mention Jewish power” it was “obviously behind in his mind”.

But a Labour Party spokesman defended Mr Corbyn saying: “Of course Jeremy completely rejects David Duke’s racist hatred.” 

 

The comments follow Mr Corbyn’s apology for sharing a platform with people who reportedly compared Israel to the Nazis and has intensified calls for Labour to take a tougher stance on anti-Semitism.

The Labour leader issued the apology after it emerged he had hosted a Holocaust Memorial Day event in 2010 at which speakers are said to have likened the actions of Israel in Gaza to Hitler's regime.

This week a Holocaust survivor claimed he was silenced by the Labour leader at an event where a leaflet was distributed accusing Israel of “falsifying” genocide. 

Robin Katz claimed Mr Corbyn, the host of the 2010 event, held on Holocaust Memorial Day, was “ordering people out” if they tried to speak in support of Israel. 

 

 

[leicsmac]

40 minutes ago, MattP said:

If it's Bannon/Boris or Corbyn/Milne I'll be cheering the former on.

 

But I don't see the Conservative party getting close to him, it's far too risking and they've already seen what can happen when major political party gets close to the fringes of whatever side of the divide they are on.

 

I hope you're right with your second paragraph, I honestly believe that if Bannon is allowed to spread influence in Europe it will lead to a pretty awful place for everyone except a certain few (based pretty obviously on skin colour and religion).

 

18 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Talking of ringing endorsements....

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/998359/Jeremy-Corbyn-news-anti-semitism-labour-party-news

 

JEREMY Corbyn's 2015 leadership victory was praised by a former Ku Klux Klan leader who said it was a sign Labour supporters were recognising “Zionists’ power” and “Jewish establishment power” in shocking unearthed comments.

Embattled Jeremy Corbyn faces further controversy today over his failure to act against anti-Semitism after it emerged white supremacist David Duke endorsed his leadership back in 2015.

Duke, who led a branch of the KKK based in Louisiana in the 1970s, told listeners to his radio show in 2015: “It’s a really good kind of evolutionary thing, isn’t it, when people are beginning to recognise Zionist power and ultimately the Jewish establishment power in Britain and in the western world.”

His comments were discovered by the Harry’s Place blog in a promotion for Duke’s show on his website, according to The Times, amid the heated Labour anti-semitism row.

They read: “Corbyn was elected over the weekend despite a massive smear campaign by Britain’s Zio-establishment over his association with anti-Zionist activists. 

 

Corbyn’s landslide victory in the leadership election can be viewed as a positive sign that understanding of the harm being done to the world by Zionism is spreading.”

Duke’s comments came as he spoke to anti-Israel activist James Thring, who was once at a meeting in parliament organised by Mr Corbyn. 

Mr Thring said that although Mr Corbyn did not “mention Jewish power” it was “obviously behind in his mind”.

But a Labour Party spokesman defended Mr Corbyn saying: “Of course Jeremy completely rejects David Duke’s racist hatred.” 

 

The comments follow Mr Corbyn’s apology for sharing a platform with people who reportedly compared Israel to the Nazis and has intensified calls for Labour to take a tougher stance on anti-Semitism.

The Labour leader issued the apology after it emerged he had hosted a Holocaust Memorial Day event in 2010 at which speakers are said to have likened the actions of Israel in Gaza to Hitler's regime.

This week a Holocaust survivor claimed he was silenced by the Labour leader at an event where a leaflet was distributed accusing Israel of “falsifying” genocide. 

Robin Katz claimed Mr Corbyn, the host of the 2010 event, held on Holocaust Memorial Day, was “ordering people out” if they tried to speak in support of Israel. 

 

 

Perhaps Boris ought to do what Corbyn did here and say right away that he doesn't have anything to do with folks like Duke/the KKK/BNP?

[Guest MattP]

Well our relationship with Israel will be good if he become PM.

 

[Guest MattP]

6 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Perhaps Boris ought to do what Corbyn did here and say right away that he doesn't have anything to do with folks like Duke/the KKK/BNP?

And instead go laying wreaths on murderers graves, sharing platforms with anti-semites and organising rallies attended by holocaust deniers?

[leicsmac]

8 minutes ago, MattP said:

And instead go laying wreaths on murderers graves, sharing platforms with anti-semites and organising rallies attended by holocaust deniers?

Arguments regarding the definition of murderers aside (though I'd agree in this case, I'd also say when you have something like the Israeli-Palestinian conflict going on the term is subjective depending on who you ask and what the situation is), I'd really like to have someone at the higher levels of politics who actually buys into the idea that there are no "bad" races, religions or peoples but rather just bad individuals within them and doesn't believe the world is black and white and that they have to take a fvcking side with every petty instance of "who trod on someones toes because someone wrote something in a book or books of allegory a thousand years ago".

Edited 13 August 2018 by leicsmac

[Strokes]

15 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

 

Perhaps Boris ought to do what Corbyn did here and say right away that he doesn't have anything to do with folks like Duke/the KKK/BNP?

What would be the point? There is nobody that hasn’t already made their minds up.