Unpopular Opinions You Hold

[leicsmac]

11 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

That's why most people, especially those in this forum, should simply not even try. And when they spectacularly fail, not blame it on other people.

This is a logical conclusion to make. However, I do rather fear for the consequences if the attempt is not made, because there simply isn't enough of it.

[HighPeakFox]

13 minutes ago, Daggers said:

The only issue I ever discussed on the doorstep was our condemned hospital. We had three party bigwigs come and promise us the new hospital that the Tories repeatedly promised us during the campaign - a message I relayed to doorsteps.

 

Labour cancelled any promise of a new hospital a month or so ago...and my future votes with it. Apparently we are going to have to make do for at least another ten years. Our MP has gone into hiding; she is refusing to answer any message sent demanding an explanation. I didn't use the words fvck, bastards, shit, or lying cvnts once.

 

Personally, as a now ex-party member and campaigner, I couldn't give less of a shit about "a blueprint for the digital centre of government to improve public services" or "contactless ticketing will be rolled out to 47 more railway stations" or "a consultation on increasing legal aid fees for immigration". Fvck all there make a jot of difference to Kettering. Have you heard anyone moaning about the lack of a "Nature Restoration Fund"?

 

I'm fvcking angry with the lot of them for the gaffs, idiotic priorities and the pisspoor communications - but I'm livid with them for the hospital lie and making me complicit in it. The administration has the stench of the death throes of the Brown government...and it's only just begun. Starmer is handing the UK over to the far right on a plate.

I find it hard to actually disagree.

[Sampson]

34 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

That's why most people, especially those in this forum, should simply not even try. And when they spectacularly fail, not blame it on other people.

I personally don’t agree that you beat populism by ignoring it. I’m far from a master communicator, no one on this forum is, but I don’t agree that the solution is simply ignoring people spreading political lies and half truths and not trying to come back to them. 
 

For reference I do think about how I communicate with people and it’s not perfect but I think that you are trying to spin it on “blaming others”  is the Catch 22 I’m talking about. No one, even the best political communicators in the West, have been able to solve this problem over the past decade, they all get called “the liberal elite” “who talk down to people” - because you can’t solve it, because as soon as you try and adress it you’re suddenly talking down to people and blaming others on others.Macron was supposed to be the one who solved it by swinging from one populist right position to one populist left position but all it ended up doing was giving those positions total credence. It’s a total trap and Catch 22.

[grobyfox1990]

32 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

This is a logical conclusion to make. However, I do rather fear for the consequences if the attempt is not made, because there simply isn't enough of it.

Agreed but the attempts need to be well informed and educated, whilst considering and listening to what concerns people have. Because getting it wrong has dire consequences, as we are seeing now. It's far from a 'got nothing to lose so might as well have a go' situation. If you don't know how to effectively communicate with people, just zip it.

 

2 minutes ago, Sampson said:

I personally don’t agree that you beat populism by ignoring it. I’m far from a master communicator, no one on this forum is, but I don’t agree that the solution is simply ignoring people spreading political lies and half truths and not trying to come back to them. 
 

For reference I do think about how I communicate with people and it’s not perfect but I think that you are trying to spin it on “blaming others”  is the Catch 22 I’m talking about. No one, even the best political communicators in the West, have been able to solve this problem over the past decade, they all get called “the liberal elite” “who talk down to people” - because you can’t solve it, because as soon as you try and adress it you’re suddenly talking down to people and blaming others on others.Macron was supposed to be the one who solved it by swinging from one populist right position to one populist left position but all it ended up doing was giving those positions total credence. It’s a total trap and Catch 22.

Yeh can see why that could be misread tbf, I wasn't suggesting 'ignoring' populism to beat it, but leave it to people that know how to talk.

The 'best' political communicators are clearly not the best if they have spectacularly failed to see or solve the problem. Especially if they are being outwitted by orangeman's brigade just shouting 'fake news!!!!!' and then they have no comeback. 

Sort of a microcosm of the West to an extreme extent, we've had the baby boomers who have got so fat, lazy and stupid after years of being spoiled that they have no idea of how to resist challenge. And the current generation have all got anxiety and a lack of resilience, so just assume we can't solve these problems and it must be the other person's fault.

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, Dunge said:

You mean take all our data and give it to Elon Musk?

No, he means Mad Max in principle at first and then in practice not long afterwards.

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Agreed but the attempts need to be well informed and educated, whilst considering and listening to what concerns people have. Because getting it wrong has dire consequences, as we are seeing now. It's far from a 'got nothing to lose so might as well have a go' situation. If you don't know how to effectively communicate with people, just zip it.

 

If there's a solid reason that we're far from that situation, as opposed to being dangerously close or perhaps even arrived at it already, I'd like to hear it.

[jgtuk]

58 minutes ago, Daggers said:

The only issue I ever discussed on the doorstep was our condemned hospital. We had three party bigwigs come and promise us the new hospital that the Tories repeatedly promised us during the campaign - a message I relayed to doorsteps.

 

Labour cancelled any promise of a new hospital a month or so ago...and my future votes with it. Apparently we are going to have to make do for at least another ten years. Our MP has gone into hiding; she is refusing to answer any message sent demanding an explanation. I didn't use the words fvck, bastards, shit, or lying cvnts once.

 

Personally, as a now ex-party member and campaigner, I couldn't give less of a shit about "a blueprint for the digital centre of government to improve public services" or "contactless ticketing will be rolled out to 47 more railway stations" or "a consultation on increasing legal aid fees for immigration". Fvck all there make a jot of difference to Kettering. Have you heard anyone moaning about the lack of a "Nature Restoration Fund"?

 

I'm fvcking angry with the lot of them for the gaffs, idiotic priorities and the pisspoor communications - but I'm livid with them for the hospital lie and making me complicit in it. The administration has the stench of the death throes of the Brown government...and it's only just begun. Starmer is handing the UK over to the far right on a plate.

It's all so dissapointing. I never had faith in this particular Labour set up, just hope and the knowledge that anything must be better than the last pile of steaming crvp to govern over us.

 

[RoboFox]

1 hour ago, Torquay Gunner said:

I worked in London for 20 years, leaving the South East in 2007.  The areas outside central London have alas always been pretty grimy.  No doubt on that score it compares unfavourably to every big European,  or non European city I have ever visited. 

This. I lived in the city for 15 years and whilst I commute in nowadays, I still work there. 

 

It's no more dirty than it was 15-20 years ago. It's a massive place and there are a lot of people there. People are dirty and selfish. 

 

It's a LOT less run down that it was in many areas mind, although this is arguably not a good thing as development and gentification equals rising cost of living.

[grobyfox1990]

10 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

If there's a solid reason that we're far from that situation, as opposed to being dangerously close or perhaps even arrived at it already, I'd like to hear it.

You think we are on the cusp of furiosa now!? AI is going to solve a lot of problems and find efficiencies, renewable energy sources are steaming ahead, James Webb has made insane discoveries to aid human life, proportion of people living in extreme poverty continues to go down, people dying in conflicts is still relatively low historically, we are still working and physically active at an age where most people were long dead about 100 years ago as life expectancy rises, child mortality rate has fallen off a cliff, hunger rates are going down. 

Hell, even if you're fat and can't be bothered to take responsibility for your own health, there's an injection for that!!!

I get the popular narrative is to make everyone sad and depressed because it is so phenomenally profitable, but that's not the whole truth. Granted you can prob counter my good points about the world with loads of bad points....

[bovril]

2 minutes ago, RoboFox said:

 

It's no more dirty than it was 15-20 years ago. It's a massive place and there are a lot of people there. People are dirty and selfish. 

 

Really don't like this attitude which is quite prevalent in England - there is nothing we can do about it because people are just like that. Can we not hold society to high standards? As the post you're replying to says, it compares badly to most if not all big European cities. 

[Dunge]

52 minutes ago, Sampson said:

I personally don’t agree that you beat populism by ignoring it. I’m far from a master communicator, no one on this forum is, but I don’t agree that the solution is simply ignoring people spreading political lies and half truths and not trying to come back to them. 
 

For reference I do think about how I communicate with people and it’s not perfect but I think that you are trying to spin it on “blaming others”  is the Catch 22 I’m talking about. No one, even the best political communicators in the West, have been able to solve this problem over the past decade, they all get called “the liberal elite” “who talk down to people” - because you can’t solve it, because as soon as you try and adress it you’re suddenly talking down to people and blaming others on others.Macron was supposed to be the one who solved it by swinging from one populist right position to one populist left position but all it ended up doing was giving those positions total credence. It’s a total trap and Catch 22.

I struggle work out what to do with this situation. On the one hand I take your implication of the old adage that all it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing. But on the other hand, the right has been fuelled by the left for over a decade now.

 

For instance, I voted Brexit. I don’t discuss it much these days, precisely because what followed was years upon years of vitriol, before anyone had even talked it over with me. I perhaps take a different view to many on it, but I can see how that pushed people away. The way I see it, people on the left have argued more and more vehemently about more and more niche things and have essentially at every stage found a reason to push people away, to look down on them for being less ethical in some way. That’s a problem, particularly looking at how Trump essentially got elected by putting together a cross-society alliance of sorts.

 

Not only that, but strategically right has followed left for years, and it’s resulted in double standards. An example is Cambridge Analytica. Obama was praised to the hilt for his team’s campaigning tactics of targeting on social media. When the right did it (successfully), it was reported as a terrible, dangerous thing and an intrusion on people’s rights.

 

That, with both left and centre unable to find solutions to - or even address - concerns on economy, demographics and social change, is creating more and more of a divide. People are turning to the far right not simply because the right are loud. It’s because they don’t see a future in society, they don’t see anything worth protecting so they join the groups that promise to tear it down.

 

The answer to me isn’t to keep arguing with the right. But nor is it to ignore them. I think the answer is to lead, both in terms of personality and on the topics that are in people’s minds. Because this is where the far right see their way in: To jump to the front of the mob and shout “Follow me!”

I think we need statesmen, people who can address tough topics, say “yes, we hear the concerns of the public and this is an issue,” then essentially infantilise the one-dimensional comments of the likes of Lee Anderson by continuing “This is our plan to deal with it while not doing harm in other areas.” By all means, mock the far right for being wrong. But make sure to present with it a positive vision of the future. The far right don’t win in the light. They win in the mud. And I fear too many people are being drawn into the mud with them right now.

Edited 11 February by Dunge

[RoboFox]

2 minutes ago, bovril said:

Really don't like this attitude which is quite prevalent in England - there is nothing we can do about it because people are just like that. Can we not hold society to high standards? As the post you're replying to says, it compares badly to most if not all big European cities. 

Yes, but the outcome relies on a completely unrealistic cultural and socio-economic shift. 

 

There have been many attempts to clean areas of city, many campaigns to encourage a change in attitudes, there are probably more community clean-ups, volunteer, or support organizations than ever before. 

 

However the state of the streets is far down the list of priorities for already stretched authorities, and unfortunately for every one person that cares, there are ten that absolutely don't. 

 

And most populous European cities face the same issues: Paris is worse. Brussels, Rome, Athens, Berlin, Amsterdam all filthy. 

 

I reiterate: people are dirty and selfish and it's absolutely not a problem unique to London. 

[bovril]

1 minute ago, RoboFox said:

Yes, but the outcome relies on a completely unrealistic cultural and socio-economic shift. 

 

There have been many attempts to clean areas of city, many campaigns to encourage a change in attitudes, there are probably more community clean-ups, volunteer, or support organizations than ever before. 

 

However the state of the streets is far down the list of priorities for already stretched authorities, and unfortunately for every one person that cares, there are ten that absolutely don't. 

 

And most populous European cities face the same issues: Paris is worse. Brussels, Rome, Athens, Berlin, Amsterdam all filthy. 

 

I reiterate: people are dirty and selfish and it's absolutely not a problem unique to London. 

Paris and Rome I found much better. Maybe because they don't have the amount of takeaways we have in London which I think is one of the biggest contributors. Maybe I'm imagining it but I feel like it has got much worse in the last 2 ish year, but sure it's not unique to here. 

[RoboFox]

1 minute ago, bovril said:

Paris and Rome I found much better. Maybe because they don't have the amount of takeaways we have in London which I think is one of the biggest contributors. Maybe I'm imagining it but I feel like it has got much worse in the last 2 ish year, but sure it's not unique to here. 

I guarantee one thing though, our weather doesn't help. 90% grey and miserable days and heavy traffic moving around grime around soaked streets definitely doesn't help the perception of a "nice" city. I love London in the summer and I hate it in the winter and this is a huge contributing factor. 

And yeah, agree with the takeaways thing. Wrappers everywhere. And chicken bones. Must be a nightmare to be a dog owner.

[bovril]

8 minutes ago, RoboFox said:

I guarantee one thing though, our weather doesn't help. 90% grey and miserable days and heavy traffic moving around grime around soaked streets definitely doesn't help the perception of a "nice" city. I love London in the summer and I hate it in the winter and this is a huge contributing factor. 

And yeah, agree with the takeaways thing. Wrappers everywhere. And chicken bones. Must be a nightmare to be a dog owner.

Another thing is in Europe you have these big bins that small businesses like restaurants chuck their waste into (I'm sure there is a term for this, you can tell I'm not an expert on refuse collection), but here a lot of stuff is left out on the street for foxes and birds to get into. Combine that with wind and rain and you have disgusting messes all over the pavement. 

 

Totally agree about the weather. Every summer London manages to trick me into thinking I want to stay another year...

[grobyfox1990]

6 minutes ago, bovril said:

Another thing is in Europe you have these big bins that small businesses like restaurants chuck their waste into (I'm sure there is a term for this, you can tell I'm not an expert on refuse collection), but here a lot of stuff is left out on the street for foxes and birds to get into. Combine that with wind and rain and you have disgusting messes all over the pavement. 

 

Totally agree about the weather. Every summer London manages to trick me into thinking I want to stay another year...

London in the summer is a totally different beast. Few old fashioned's on Madison rooftop after work before going to some world class (probably free) culture in a park followed by a Michelin star dinner all before it gets dark surrounded by young people with energy before they've had all the life sucked out of them. What's not to like.

[Daggers]

1 hour ago, jgtuk said:

It's all so dissapointing. I never had faith in this particular Labour set up, just hope and the knowledge that anything must be better than the last pile of steaming crvp to govern over us.

 

I'm going back to not posting about it, I don't want Mark getting upset with my overuse of the vernacular 

[Foxdiamond]

31 minutes ago, RoboFox said:

I guarantee one thing though, our weather doesn't help. 90% grey and miserable days and heavy traffic moving around grime around soaked streets definitely doesn't help the perception of a "nice" city. I love London in the summer and I hate it in the winter and this is a huge contributing factor. 

And yeah, agree with the takeaways thing. Wrappers everywhere. And chicken bones. Must be a nightmare to be a dog owner.

Agree about the weather. The litter situation is a disgrace regarding the careless attitude of people 

[Fox92]

57 minutes ago, bovril said:

Paris and Rome I found much better. Maybe because they don't have the amount of takeaways we have in London which I think is one of the biggest contributors. Maybe I'm imagining it but I feel like it has got much worse in the last 2 ish year, but sure it's not unique to here. 

I went to Paris for the first time two or three years ago now and given the comments I see online I was expecting to see things like a lot of rubbish but far from it, it was so nice and actually a better and nicer City than I expected.

[bmt]

1 hour ago, RoboFox said:

I guarantee one thing though, our weather doesn't help. 90% grey and miserable days and heavy traffic moving around grime around soaked streets definitely doesn't help the perception of a "nice" city. I love London in the summer and I hate it in the winter and this is a huge contributing factor. 

And yeah, agree with the takeaways thing. Wrappers everywhere. And chicken bones. Must be a nightmare to be a dog owner.

By far the biggest dirt issue near me (Brockley) is people not picking up their dog's shit! Genuinely a minefield, especially when it's dark going home from work.

[RoboFox]

1 minute ago, bmt said:

By far the biggest dirt issue near me (Brockley) is people not picking up their dog's shit! Genuinely a minefield, especially when it's dark going home from work.

Yep. My commute walking around Shepherd's Bush and White City is like playing shit Frogger. 

[leicsmac]

2 hours ago, grobyfox1990 said:

You think we are on the cusp of furiosa now!? AI is going to solve a lot of problems and find efficiencies, renewable energy sources are steaming ahead, James Webb has made insane discoveries to aid human life, proportion of people living in extreme poverty continues to go down, people dying in conflicts is still relatively low historically, we are still working and physically active at an age where most people were long dead about 100 years ago as life expectancy rises, child mortality rate has fallen off a cliff, hunger rates are going down. 

Hell, even if you're fat and can't be bothered to take responsibility for your own health, there's an injection for that!!!

I get the popular narrative is to make everyone sad and depressed because it is so phenomenally profitable, but that's not the whole truth. Granted you can prob counter my good points about the world with loads of bad points....

No, we're on a road that leads to The Expanse at best and Furiosa at worst, but that's a way away; however I do think we're rapidly approaching a point where that future, one way or the other, will be locked in and there will be nothing we can do other than brace ourselves for either, hence my thought about there being precious little left to lose.

 

The scientific discoveries we've made even in the last decade are outstanding, as you point out just a few here, and they truly have the power to make the world a better place. They have to be matched by a likewise progression in societal development and mindset, though, otherwise at best they might buy us a little time and at worst bring about or be used to enforce the possible dystopias referenced above.

Edited 11 February by leicsmac

[Stadt]

I prefer Man City and Chelsea to Arsenal, Man United and Liverpool 

[Jon the Hat]

13 hours ago, bovril said:

Really don't like this attitude which is quite prevalent in England - there is nothing we can do about it because people are just like that. Can we not hold society to high standards? As the post you're replying to says, it compares badly to most if not all big European cities. 

I don't think it does really, you just tend not to visit the same sort of areas when you are visiting as when you are living, commuting or working in a city.  I have seen plenty of shitty bits of Paris, Madrid, Milan, Sydney, Jakarta etc.

[ozleicester]

On 11/02/2025 at 07:12, Daggers said:

I've never felt less inclined to do anything.

 

Give me a bottle of something and the dogs to sit at my feet and the view from the garden.

 

So absolutely depressing.

I completely agree on the lack of inclination.... however at the same time, it has probably (well not in my adult life) never been more important that the realists among us stand up and fight back.

The last few weeks has seen me attending an Invasion day protest and march, a Trans Rights rally, a protect Palestine rally and a mini golf challenge (that was just for fun :))

If people dont stand up to this... it will wash over us all.