Unpopular Opinions You Hold

[Guest Harrydc]

Just now, peach0000 said:

Obesity, smoking and drinking is not comparable in my opinion although I do agree the post you quoted was a bit extreme. All you have to do to avoid getting ill is go twice for 20 minutes and get a jab at no cost to yourself. If you say no then why should you get treatment for free if you get ill?

The way I think it is comparable is that we all know smoking is bad for you and can cause long term health effects which could result in hospital treatment, yet, we still choose to do it. However, we don't turn around and say to smokers that they're not allowed treatment, or have to pay for it because it's their own doing. 

[peach0000]

1 minute ago, Harrydc said:

The way I think it is comparable is that we all know smoking is bad for you and can cause long term health effects which could result in hospital treatment, yet, we still choose to do it. However, we don't turn around and say to smokers that they're not allowed treatment, or have to pay for it because it's their own doing. 

Smokers pay for their treatment through taxation

 

Edit: on cigarettes and tobacco to be clear, not talking about income tax.

Edited 21 February 2021 by peach0000

[Heathrow fox]

6 minutes ago, peach0000 said:

I wouldn't go as extreme as Fightforevers solution. Put the legal framework in place so that they can be treated and then a payment plan for their treatment is taken as a proportion of income, like student loans are. Or if the worst is to happen take it out of their estate. 

Yes and as I said good luck enforcing it.I believe the vast vast majority will take part in the vaccination programme anyway.

[Fightforever]

12 minutes ago, Harrydc said:

So anyone who is morbidly obese, smokes or excessively drinks should not have treatment for related conditions caused by these either? What a ridiculous comment. 

Well that's different because addictions are hard to drop and come with peer presure. Taking a vaccine is piss easy. 

[peach0000]

Just now, Heathrow fox said:

Yes and as I said good luck enforcing it.I believe the vast vast majority will take part in the vaccination programme anyway.

It would be fairly easy to enforce. All you need is their identity and then you can either take it straight out of their wages (like a student loan) on legally enforce it through the courts like any other debt. I too believe the vaccine uptake will be very high but I really can't understand the anti-vaxxer opinion at all. I will say I think I might have finally posted an unpopular opinion on this thread 

[Heathrow fox]

17 minutes ago, Fightforever said:

Let them die then imo. Why should the tax payer fund your crazy conspiracy theories about the vaccine.

You’ve got the wrong poster I think,I’m ready and waiting for my vaccine when called and have never been a covid/vaccine conspiracy theorist.Just merely pointing out the potential minefield this road would take us,and the small to zero chance of ever recouping hospital fees. 

[Fightforever]

26 minutes ago, Dunge said:

I think this is a really interesting question. I can see both sides to it. On one side I totally get your argument - practically speaking, a plumber does not need to know about alliteration. But on the other side, education - at least in this country - isn’t all about preparing children for a practical occupation, even if they’re set on what they want to do. It’s also about exposing them to different skills and worlds they might not have experienced otherwise. Maybe he’d love learning about poetry and develop aspirations to write his own? Maybe he’d be enthused by Pythagoras theorem and move instead toward a career in engineering? Most kids probably aren’t inspired in each case, but some will be.

 

As for why he has to get a grade C in English to become a plumber, he shouldn’t. For those who aren’t academic, I definitely think there should still be a strong English and maths focus at secondary school; but in GCSE years that should probably be on shoring up basic skills rather than analysing Shakespeare or solving quadratic equations.

I can see that side to it to be honest although I think the system forces over qualification onto some people in regards to needing to learn about alliteration and what not which means some inevitably can't meet the standard which leads them to going into minimum wage jobs despite the fact they would be perfectly capable of getting into a trade school. Imo expose them to that stuff early if they don't like it get them to do different types of lessons where they don't need to learn alliteration and what not. A bit like Germany with their system quite like the idea of having different types of schools . He is quite logical and likes doing things with his hands I don't think he will ever be a poet. Also in my experience in school quite a while ago so I don't know if it is still like this it ruined it for the kids that actually did like that sort of stuff when that one **** who didn't care keeps distracting them by misbehaving due to their sheer boredom.

Edited 22 February 2021 by Fightforever

[Fightforever]

12 minutes ago, Heathrow fox said:

You’ve got the wrong poster I think,I’m ready and waiting for my vaccine when called and have never been a covid/vaccine conspiracy theorist.Just merely pointing out the potential minefield this road would take us,and the small to zero chance of ever recouping hospital fees. 

The reason I say it is more because I am sick and tired of anti vaxers you aren't one I know but almost my entire family is and they need to learn the hard way that covid is a dangerous virus and it does indeed exist.

Edited 22 February 2021 by Fightforever

[Fightforever]

30 minutes ago, Harrydc said:

So anyone who is morbidly obese, smokes or excessively drinks should not have treatment for related conditions caused by these either? What a ridiculous comment. 

To be fair it's called unpopular opinions. 

[peach0000]

1 minute ago, Fightforever said:

The reason I say it is more because I am sick and tired of anti vaxers you aren't one I know but almost my entire family is and they need to learn the hard way that covid is a dangerous virus and it does indeed exist.

It's such a selfish attitude to have. If they get ill it will affect their loved ones, the nurses and doctors and even in the short term the general populations freedoms. I've genuinely never seen one convincing anti-vaxer argument. 

[Heathrow fox]

13 minutes ago, peach0000 said:

It would be fairly easy to enforce. All you need is their identity and then you can either take it straight out of their wages (like a student loan) on legally enforce it through the courts like any other debt. I too believe the vaccine uptake will be very high but I really can't understand the anti-vaxxer opinion at all. I will say I think I might have finally posted an unpopular opinion on this thread 

Well a subject as delicate as this would open up a huge debate.Really can’t see much appetite for it when like we agree most will take up the vaccine.If you start threatening people they tend to double down.Let it take it’s natural course.The collection of the £10000 fines isn’t going well btw.Can’t remember the exact no but most are either being ignored or contested.I know it’s frustrating and I probably agree with you but I think it might be a step too far

[Guest Fktf]

11 minutes ago, peach0000 said:

It would be fairly easy to enforce. All you need is their identity and then you can either take it straight out of their wages (like a student loan) on legally enforce it through the courts like any other debt. I too believe the vaccine uptake will be very high but I really can't understand the anti-vaxxer opinion at all. I will say I think I might have finally posted an unpopular opinion on this thread 

Your aim here seems to be to encourage vaccine uptake, which is a sentiment I'm fully on board with. But there's far easier/more effective ways to promote vaccine uptake. Psychology tells us that you have to threaten to take something away from people, rather than threaten to maybe add something unpleasant (in this case debt, but that is only if the unvaccinated person gets ill enough to need to go to hospital). 

[peach0000]

Just now, Fktf said:

Your aim here seems to be to encourage vaccine uptake, which is a sentiment I'm fully on board with. But there's far easier/more effective ways to promote vaccine uptake. Psychology tells us that you have to threaten to take something away from people, rather than threaten to maybe add something unpleasant (in this case debt, but that is only if the unvaccinated person gets ill enough to need to go to hospital). 

That isn't my only aim. I think it could have a positive impact on it. But I just think morally speaking that there is no way a person refusing a vaccine should then be treated for free when they inevitably fall ill. I feel uneasy that doctors and nurses that have been through so much will be asked to treat these people to be honest. But at the very least they should be paying their own way. 

[Fightforever]

20 minutes ago, peach0000 said:

It's such a selfish attitude to have. If they get ill it will affect their loved ones, the nurses and doctors and even in the short term the general populations freedoms. I've genuinely never seen one convincing anti-vaxer argument. 

Ironically, they try to tell me all the rubbish about 5g killing us and what not but I am the one with a degree in medicine while the most qualified out of them on the matter barely passed science and most of them aren't even educated (most of them are Kosovar migrants hence their lack of education since education after 11 years old wasn't enforced there) They claim university brainwashed me. Nothing gets through to them. 

Edited 22 February 2021 by Fightforever

[Guest Fktf]

2 minutes ago, Fightforever said:

Ironically, they try to tell me all the rubbish about 5g killing us and what not but I am the one with a degree in medicine while the most qualified out of them on the barely passed science and most of them aren't even educated (most of them are Kosovar migrants hence their lack of education since it education after 11 years old wasn't enforced there) They claim university brainwashed me. Nothing gets through to them. 

 I mean, how can you ever reason with that.

[Heathrow fox]

10 minutes ago, Fightforever said:

The reason I say it is more because I am sick and tired of anti vaxers you aren't one I know but almost my entire family is and they need to learn the hard way that covid is a dangerous virus and it does indeed exist.

 

3 minutes ago, Fightforever said:

Ironically, they try to tell me all the rubbish about 5g killing us and what not but I am the one with a degree in medicine while the most qualified out of them on the barely passed science and most of them aren't even educated (most of them are Kosovar migrants hence their lack of education since it education after 11 years old wasn't enforced there) They claim university brainwashed me. Nothing gets through to them. 

I understand the problem then.Must be very frustrating.Would be interested to know how many of you’re family will have been vaccinated this time next year.

[Guest Fktf]

5 minutes ago, peach0000 said:

That isn't my only aim. I think it could have a positive impact on it. But I just think morally speaking that there is no way a person refusing a vaccine should then be treated for free when they inevitably fall ill. I feel uneasy that doctors and nurses that have been through so much will be asked to treat these people to be honest. But at the very least they should be paying their own way. 

Morally I find it tricky. If we give people the choice to accept or refuse the vaccine (or give people the choice to consume cigarettes or alcohol by selling it in an unlimited way), I think it's a bit unreasonable to then later say - sorry, you made the wrong choice. If the choice is so wrong, it shouldn't be available to make.

[peach0000]

7 minutes ago, Fktf said:

Morally I find it tricky. If we give people the choice to accept or refuse the vaccine (or give people the choice to consume cigarettes or alcohol by selling it in an unlimited way), I think it's a bit unreasonable to then later say - sorry, you made the wrong choice. If the choice is so wrong, it shouldn't be available to make.

That's a whole different discussion. I wouldn't be against forcible vaccination if that's the way the govt went. But I think the anti-vaxers need to realise their actions have consequences. I've said it in a previous post but the difference with alcohol and cigarettes for me is that 'users' of those products are being taxed heavily when buying them.

[Fightforever]

34 minutes ago, Heathrow fox said:

 

I understand the problem then.Must be very frustrating.Would be interested to know how many of you’re family will have been vaccinated this time next year.

I wouldn't hold your breath. To give you some insight into the lunacy.

 

My aunt's daughter is telling her kids in primary school not to listen in science classes since it teaches "anti-Islamic teachings" (evolution) and teaches kids to get vaccinated.

I do worry about them and other kids in their situation.

 

When I asked her who told her that she said that someone on her mosque's group chat told her that their child was taught by her teacher that evolution was real so she thought to warn her kids.

 

I was born here and can barly hold a conversation in Albanian but since my family is BAME and Muslim (I am also technically BAME but I look as northern european as it gets for an ethnic Albanian, I am not Muslim and I have an English accent so it would be unfair for me to appropriate the hardships they may suffer due to the stereotypes regarding BAME communities and what not) they didn't assimilate as much as I did so I get an insight into the communities they are part of and how they think such as the muslim mosque whatsapp group chats they are in, the way they think, react to news events and at times it feels like they live on a different planet.

 

I do worry for their children I don't mind Islam but anti science view points are dangerous and it seems to be a recurring theme amongst their community sadly.

Edited 22 February 2021 by Fightforever

[ozleicester]

1 hour ago, peach0000 said:

If you refuse a covid vaccine and fall ill with covid you should have to pay for your own treatment/get insurance to cover the possibility.

 

1 hour ago, Heathrow fox said:

Dangerous road to go down.What if you can’t afford treatment or insurance?Besides we can’t even enforce fines so what chance of this?

 

1 hour ago, Fightforever said:

Let them die then imo. Why should the tax payer fund your crazy conspiracy theories about the vaccine.

 

1 hour ago, Harrydc said:

So anyone who is morbidly obese, smokes or excessively drinks should not have treatment for related conditions caused by these either? What a ridiculous comment. 

 

1 hour ago, peach0000 said:

Obesity, smoking and drinking is not comparable in my opinion although I do agree the post you quoted was a bit extreme. All you have to do to avoid getting ill is go twice for 20 minutes and get a jab at no cost to yourself. If you say no then why should you get treatment for free if you get ill?

smoking Cancer = no care

drinking liver disease = no care

fatty foods obesity = no care

red meat cancer = no care

Football injury = no care

car accident = no care

drop hammer on foot = no care

 

All choices you made.. you deserve to suffer

 

[Guest Fktf]

23 minutes ago, peach0000 said:

That's a whole different discussion. I wouldn't be against forcible vaccination if that's the way the govt went. But I think the anti-vaxers need to realise their actions have consequences. I've said it in a previous post but the difference with alcohol and cigarettes for me is that 'users' of those products are being taxed heavily when buying them.

It's very related. If anti vaxers are to be given a choice in the first place, morally I think it wrong for there to be huge financial consequences (for most people, losing your whole estate without even covering the cost of ICU treatment) if they make a decision that you (and I) consider wrong. If it is so wrong, that choice shouldn't be there.

[Fightforever]

Just now, ozleicester said:

 

 

 

 

smoking Cancer = no care

drinking liver disease = no care

fatty foods obesity = no care

red meat cancer = no care

Football injury = no care

car accident = no care

drop hammer on foot = no care

 

All choices you made.. you deserve to suffer

 

Smoking and liver diseases  are an addiction problem its more complicated then wanting to do drink/eat more.

 

Fatty foods also an addiction.

 

Red meat is more dubious since cancer isn't as black and white as you make it out to be.

 

Football is exersise and the vast majority of the time is good for you.

 

Car accidents are going to happen its the price you pay for the government pushing a globalised world. People need to travel long distances at a fast pace to get to work and keep society running.

 

Dropping a hammer on a foot is accidental it's an occupational hazard we need hammers we don't however need anti vaxers 

 

Stop strawmanning the shit out of what I said. Going to get a vaccine for 20 mins is not the same as getting cancer or battling an addiction. False equivalence is the most annoying argument tactic I have to come across and my anti vax family uses it all the time. There is almost no reason not to take the vaccine unless you are one of the groups of people that can't of course. They don't deserve tax money spent on them. 

[peach0000]

1 minute ago, Fktf said:

It's very related. If anti vaxers are to be given a choice in the first place, morally I think it wrong for there to be huge financial consequences (for most people, losing your whole estate without even covering the cost of ICU treatment) if they make a decision that you (and I) consider wrong. If it is so wrong, that choice shouldn't be there.

I would feel more comfortable with financial penalties that having them held down and vaccinated. But I'd be fine with either option.

 

Another idea is they could have to pay a different rate of national insurance and can have the vaccine at any point to reduce their rate.

[ozleicester]

8 minutes ago, Fightforever said:

Smoking and liver diseases  are an addiction problem its more complicated then wanting to do drink/eat more.

 

Fatty foods also an addiction.

 

Red meat is more dubious since cancer isn't as black and white as you make it out to be.

 

Football is exersise and the vast majority of the time is good for you.

 

Car accidents are going to happen its the price you pay for the government pushing a globalised world. People need to travel long distances at a fast pace to get to work and keep society running.

 

Dropping a hammer on a foot is accidental it's an occupational hazard we need hammers we don't however need anti vaxers 

 

Stop strawmanning the shit out of what I said. Going to get a vaccine for 20 mins is not the same as getting cancer or battling an addiction. False equivalence is the most annoying argument tactic I have to come across and my anti vax family uses it all the time. There is almost no reason not to take the vaccine unless you are one of the groups of people that can't of course. They don't deserve tax money spent on them. 

Stop with the trendy "strawman" bullshit

What you have said is total crap.

There were/are people who dont believe in addiction and therefore like you, believe that people are responsible for their decisions.

Red meat is NOT dubious, it is just ignored because so many people like it.
Football injuries are self inflicted and given your attitude should not be treated.
Car accidents are self inflicted and given your attitude should not be treated.

 

You dont get to decide how others live



im not going to go on but

[Heathrow fox]

6 minutes ago, peach0000 said:

I would feel more comfortable with financial penalties that having them held down and vaccinated. But I'd be fine with either option.

 

Another idea is they could have to pay a different rate of national insurance and can have the vaccine at any point to reduce their rate.

As none of the vaccines have got a 100% success rate,wouldn’t the lawyers have a field day?