King Power - Good or bad or both?

[Callabinho]

We wouldn’t be where we are without them.... in short I couldn’t give a toss what they do in the background it’s given us history we could only previously dream of.

 

Plus there’s much worse out there, Abramovic and the City owners would have committed many a heinous crime to gain their wealth.... you don’t get to those places by being a saint and everything being candyfloss and flowers. 

[RGFox]

Seriously...can't believe anyone questioning KP and our owners in that respect.

 

[AjcW]

They’ve done incredible things for us and we’re incredibly lucky we got them when you look at the people who took over championship clubs after them! 

 

One new thing I’d like to have seen though is more King Power influence in city’s of the field infrastructure. Club Shop and Food & Beverage offerings from a retail giant could and should be better and I’d love to see them bring over one of king powers retail directors and buyers to sort things out. 

[Wymsey]

They've not only helped the club; they've also donated a million or so £ to the Leicester Hospitals Trust and helped raise the profile of LOROS (as if the latter needed a bigger profile, as they've always been great to affected families, the local community etc).

[volpeazzurro]

I think they've been brilliant from day one when we got to see Real Madrid down here. Even though they got their fingers burnt to some extent, it showed their ambition. They've done such a lot for us and given us the sort of memories that can never be taken away or forgotten whatever our future holds. For a while, we were for a club side the toast of the world!

[FoxesDeb]

Bloody foreigners, coming over here and giving us the best football we've ever witnessed, including winning the PL and taking us to the quarter finals of the CL. Fancy doing all that whilst still living by their culture and beliefs, whether or not we agree with them. I'm off to burn my momentoes of 15/16 in protest. 

[shen]

1 hour ago, Lambert09 said:

But to me that is overlooking the point. The club has acted ethically, we do pay our taxes and follow the rules... sometimes 14 seconds late but we do try. Its not the club side of things that is unethical its the owners personal business. But my point was that in an environment where everyone is brought up this way they really are just following the path everyone has to in order to be successful. Im not justifying it, but I wouldnt be so quick to say that they are bad people.

 

Its a hell of a lot better than the oil billionaires responsible for the deaths of people, these guys are just bending some rules for financial gain. 

I respect your point of view. I wouldn't call them bad people per se either. I'm just questioning the morality of having them as owners.

 

I don't think it's that easy to just separate the club from the owners' personal business. We can't profit from their wealth on one hand and then ignore them when we don't profit from it.

I wasn't brought up in the way you describe, i.e. bend the rules to my benefit or if everyone else does it, it's OK. But I understand why it would be perceived as the norm. I am really asking if you think that this is the way it should be.

 

We really don't know the wider, direct and indirect consequences of their actions (they might be bad), but either way I think trying to downplay the actions by saying they're not as bad as other examples from real world, is a way to avoid dealing with the issue.

 

 

 

[weller54]

55 minutes ago, Wymeswold fox said:

They've not only helped the club; they've also donated a million or so £ to the Leicester Hospitals Trust and helped raise the profile of LOROS (as if the latter needed a bigger profile, as they've always been great to affected families, the local community etc).

OK.. But apart from that.. 

What have they ever done for us? 

[Bluetintedspecs]

Incredulous how fickle and ungrateful some of our fan base can be. Couple this with the multitude of threads popping up criticising our players and manager and this is is becoming an extremely negative, toxic and ungrateful forum. Sadly think it's time to give this place a wide berth it's too frustrating.

Just be careful what you wish for with the constant questioning, criticism and misery.

 

[shen]

I appreciate many of the well thought out responses in here.

I also accept that many responses have tried to downplay any criticism or even downright dismiss it.

Each to their own.

 

I think it's much more fruitful to actually debate whether or not the ethics should come into it or not.

Evidently, a lot of you think that it doesn't and shouldn't concern fans how the Srivaddhanaprabhas/Raksriaksorns do their business, or that it is counterbalanced by their benevolent acts towards the community or the fact they've overseen the club's most successful financial and sporting era to date.

 

Personally, I feel that stance has repercussions.

Are we not allowed or qualified to discuss ethics and moral codes unless we're perfectly abiding citizens ourselves?

If some rules are OK to break or bend, does it compromise the integrity of society in general?

What is the ultimate consequence of keeping the status quo/letting football and our club develop as they have?

[shen]

8 minutes ago, Bluetintedspecs said:

Incredulous how fickle and ungrateful some of our fan base can be. Couple this with the multitude of threads popping up criticising our players and manager and this is is becoming an extremely negative, toxic and ungrateful forum. Sadly think it's time to give this place a wide berth it's too frustrating.

Just be careful what you wish for with the constant questioning, criticism and misery.

 

Ironically, this post is quite toxic in itself. You wouldn't have reacted this way if you actually understood what the point of this thread is.

[Corky]

29 minutes ago, Bluetintedspecs said:

Incredulous how fickle and ungrateful some of our fan base can be. Couple this with the multitude of threads popping up criticising our players and manager and this is is becoming an extremely negative, toxic and ungrateful forum. Sadly think it's time to give this place a wide berth it's too frustrating.

Just be careful what you wish for with the constant questioning, criticism and misery.

 

Most of the comments on here, whilst being critical to some extent, have acknowledged and even praised the football side of their ownership.

[Guest Danny Clender]

Forensically investigate any football club, it won't be all good. 

I like our owners, they've bought into the chaos. 

[Babylon]

7 hours ago, Bayfox said:

Was the 1 title win, worth the future of the club tho, if they get hit with fines, or be found to have been avoiding tax here as well as an example, we go back to being a Cov, possibly in the same sodding division if we go bust etc.

 

Why are we going bust if those things happen exactly? They haven't put their own money since we got promoted. The fines will be personal and have nothing to do with the club. They'd also be chump change compared to the profits they take. 

 

The only thing that could affect us is them getting barred from owning a club. You have to do more than a couple of rule bends for that to happen. We can continue spending what we earn and stay in this league for ages so long as the correct decisions are made. 

[Babylon]

8 minutes ago, Danny Clender said:

Forensically investigate any football club, it won't be all good. 

I like our owners, they've bought into the chaos. 

If people think the world is littered with ethical rich people they are kidding themselves. Show me a billionaire and they'll have screwed someone over, used questionable practices to get there, dodged tax, used sweat shops etc etc. 

 

Compared to most we've got off lightly. They've made some questionable decisions here, but they are by far and away some of the best. Of course they make some decisions for them but often keep the thoughts of the fans in mind in the main. We've had no huge reasons to be outraged. 

[Babylon]

44 minutes ago, shen said:

I appreciate many of the well thought out responses in here.

I also accept that many responses have tried to downplay any criticism or even downright dismiss it.

Each to their own.

 

I think it's much more fruitful to actually debate whether or not the ethics should come into it or not.

Evidently, a lot of you think that it doesn't and shouldn't concern fans how the Srivaddhanaprabhas/Raksriaksorns do their business, or that it is counterbalanced by their benevolent acts towards the community or the fact they've overseen the club's most successful financial and sporting era to date.

 

Personally, I feel that stance has repercussions.

Are we not allowed or qualified to discuss ethics and moral codes unless we're perfectly abiding citizens ourselves?

If some rules are OK to break or bend, does it compromise the integrity of society in general?

What is the ultimate consequence of keeping the status quo/letting football and our club develop as they have?

I might have missed it, but have you listed out what these unethical things are exactly? Just so I know exactly what you have issues with?

[Wymsey]

9 minutes ago, Babylon said:

If people think the world is littered with ethical rich people they are kidding themselves. Show me a billionaire and they'll have screwed someone over, used questionable practices to get there, dodged tax, used sweat shops etc etc. 

 

Compared to most we've got off lightly. They've made some questionable decisions here, but they are by far and away some of the best. Of course they make some decisions for them but often keep the thoughts of the fans in mind in the main. We've had no huge reasons to be outraged. 

I actually know one, friend of Father, and some people that have worked for him/with him since have mentioned that one of his main values is keeping integrity and respect for others in check whilst exploiting a market that was very small when he first set up but is now a strong leader in its market.

So let's not tar all of them with the same brush etc.

 

Got off lightly in terms of what, exactly?

Fairly sure we're investigated all the time but just about keep in line with all the regulations in place.

[Izzy]

Football sold its soul to the devil years ago. The PL is a billionaires playground and we're lucky that the Thai's chose us as their toy.

 

I've gone past caring about branding, marketing and treating the fans like shit - that ship sailed way back when.

 

Its all well and good being ethical about it but all most of us care about is being entertained on the pitch on a Saturday and the bragging rights in the office on a Monday morning.

 

Football is huge business now and if our owners are the best of a bad bunch then quite frankly I couldn't give a fvck 

[shen]

23 minutes ago, Babylon said:

I might have missed it, but have you listed out what these unethical things are exactly? Just so I know exactly what you have issues with?

The ones I've mentioned which relate specifically to KP/Srivaddhanaprabha are off-shore holdings, the alleged FFP breach when in the Championship and their connections to the royal family and suspected ties to the junta in their home country. I know they were cleared of any wrongdoing regarding tax avoidance by their KP shops at the international airport, but it's not reassuring that cases like these pop up. I think more questionable things have been mentioned in this thread by others as well.

 

But the ethical discussion was really prompted by the thread about PL clubs embroiled in a £1 bn TV cash row and how our club is involved implicitly. How do we fans feel about our club contributing to this on a general level? Looking closer to home, should we maybe be more critical towards the club's owners?

[Babylon]

7 minutes ago, Wymeswold fox said:

I actually know one, friend of Father, and some people that have worked for him/with him since have mentioned that one of his main values is keeping integrity and respect for others in check whilst exploiting a market that was very small when he first set up but is now a strong leader in its market.

So let's not tar all of them with the same brush etc.

 

Got off lightly in terms of what, exactly?

Fairly sure we're investigated all the time but just about keep in line with all the regulations in place.

Well without knowing what they do and the details it's hard to rebuke that. But all big business I've had contact with whether it's how they treat staff, where they manufacture, tax loopholes, those that don't do something questionable somewhere are few and far between. 

 

So we keep inline with regulations but that's an issue?

 

Got off lightly compared to other clubs, do I really need to list the owners and what they've done to clubs like Forest, Leeds, Villa, Newcastle? Not just in terms of the mess they've created on the pitch, but also how shabbily they have treated the clubs fans, how little consideration they've shown. 

 

Now I'd sure we'd all love a saint to be in charge, but until they are lining up with a few hundred million of cash and their halo to buy us there is no decision to make. 

[Babylon]

3 minutes ago, shen said:

The ones I've mentioned which relate specifically to KP/Srivaddhanaprabha are off-shore holdings, the alleged FFP breach when in the Championship and their connections to the royal family and suspected ties to the junta in their home country. I know they were cleared of any wrongdoing regarding tax avoidance by their KP shops at the international airport, but it's not reassuring that cases like these pop up. I think more questionable things have been mentioned in this thread by others as well.

 

But the ethical discussion was really prompted by the thread about PL clubs embroiled in a £1 bn TV cash row and how our club is involved implicitly. How do/should we fans feel about that?

Lots of allegations and suspicions in these things though isn't there. Innocent until proven guilty and all that. 

[shen]

Just now, Babylon said:

Lots of allegations and suspicions in these things though isn't there. Innocent until proven guilty and all that. 

Oh absolutely. But I'm not naïve enough to believe that none of it is true to some extent and that our owners have been saints.

The FFP (which is obviously controversial in itself) matter in particular looked very dodgy with the information we were fed a few years ago.

 

 

[shen]

17 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

Football sold its soul to the devil years ago. The PL is a billionaires playground and we're lucky that the Thai's chose us as their toy.

 

I've gone past caring about branding, marketing and treating the fans like shit - that ship sailed way back when.

 

Its all well and good being ethical about it but all most of us care about is being entertained on the pitch on a Saturday and the bragging rights in the office on a Monday morning.

 

Football is huge business now and if our owners are the best of a bad bunch then quite frankly I couldn't give a fvck 

That's a view I expected from quite a few. It's cynical and disenfranchised and demonstrates some of us being disengaged as we don't feel we can do anything the change the situation anyway. Maybe boycotting is the only effective measure us fans can take and we're not going to collectively do that, so why bother.

 

Yet, you and I still choose to support Leicester. If it's for entertainment reasons and bragging rights, we might be better off supporting Chelsea or Barcelona. When I watch Leicester I get totally engrossed and can't help being affected. Now I sit here wondering why I do that, when I effectively feel somewhat disinfranchised like yourself.

[ian_marshall]

I understand the sentiment of the OP and it certainly makes for interesting debate however I have to disagree regarding most of the comments stated. 

 

Firstly, let's make one thing very clear, I'm neither a fan nor critic of the owners. I'd say I'm generally very happy with the direction that the club has taken since they arrived but admittedly there are still areas that I personally feel that they could improve upon. However, as far as I'm concerned it's their business and to be quite frank that means it's none of mine. 

 

Addressing the underlying statement about the morality/ethics of the owners, I believe that to be a little harsh. In all honesty do they run their business any better or worse than any other company?

 

By that I mean that you could scrutinise the morality/ethics of virtually every business ever to be conceived on some level, whether that be exploitation of labour at some point in their supply chain, unhealthy/unnatural ingredients found in foods sold in supermarkets or restaurants, carbon footprint attached to transportation of people and goods, inventive accounting methods within the confines of the law, or even use of packaging.

 

My point is; no company or person for that matter is whiter than white. We as consumers know deep down that we encourage immoral practices day in day out but does anyone make the sacrifices needed to genuinely have a clear conscience? Anyone accessing this forum will have done so using a device that a some point would have been manufactured using unethical practices so does that make us all bad people? 

 

Getting back on track, have the owners broken any laws avoiding tax? No. Are they guilty of employing an effective accountancy firm that does the job they are paid to do? Possibly. Therefore can we categorically say without doubt that our Thai owners are entirely responsible for the tax avoidance actions of their (probably British) accountant who is tasked with managing the accounts and structure of their business in the UK and whose sole aim is to maximise returns within the laws of the land? If the answer to that is yes, well sadly that's a societal issue as many far larger household names up and down the land who contribute significantly more to our country's GDP have been upto such antics rightly or wrongly for many years, and I would argue that they are a far bigger concern than King Power Holdings in the grand scheme of things. Also, given their venture into football in Europe and the volatile price of the pound at the current time one might argue that an off shore account is a safe haven and a good location should the business wish to spread its wings. Without knowing their long term strategic plans I think it's really hard to comment. 

 

With regards to their current situation in Thailand, I think it's unfair to suggest that they have done any wrongdoing given that it is currently only accusations levelled against them, we don't know the full history, cultural context or the legislation of their business transactions in the country (please enlighten me if you do), nor do we know the full facts. On that basis I'll stand by our cultural viewpoint of being innocent until proven guilty and reserve judgement until the situation is more clear cut. 

 

As for the branding of the ground, etc. as far as I'm concerned they are investors in what is ultimately a business designed to produce them a return on their investment. How they choose to go about their business is entirely up to them so long as it doesn't adversely affect anyone else (which let's be honest would be counterintuitive to running a successful business). 

 

The only point I would agree that there is a bit of a grey area, is with regards to our financial dealings whilst we were in the Championship. From the outside looking in there are certainly some question marks over various transactions between businesses, however again the club have repeatedly stated that they didn't break the rules so until the Football League prove otherwise it really is hard to comment. 

[Izzy]

2 minutes ago, shen said:

 

Yet, you and I still choose to support Leicester. If it's for entertainment reasons and bragging rights, we might be better off supporting Chelsea or Barcelona. When I watch Leicester I get totally engrossed and can't help being affected. Now I sit here wondering why I do that, when I effectively feel somewhat disinfranchised like yourself.

I may feel disinfranchised but I'll support Leicester until the day I die regardless of who are owners are and regardless of entertainment and bragging rights.

 

We watch them because it's part of our identity, but the club is an ever changing entity that we'll always just go along with anyway because it's in or blood.

 

Ownership, ethics, ground location, Manager, players, money, the division we play in etc. is all irrelevant really. None of it matters because your team is your team and that's that.

 

"Forever and ever, we'll follow our team. We're Leicester City, we rule supreme. We'll never be mastered, by those Forest bastards, we'll keep the blue flag flighing high"