Shooting at Texas Church

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, lgfualol said:

Doesn't mean they have to give them up, just make it harder for people to buy them or obtain them. Like Obama said, they didn't ban cars when people were dying all the time - they just added seat-belts. 

 

They wont do anything similar though, stricter gun laws mean less profit for the big boys and whatnot. 

There are too many in circulation, how can you stop one person selling his gun to another? What about the people who already own them? It's never going to happen.

[foxy boxing]

eat, sleep, shooting in America, repeat.

[Simi]

Makes the job of the police incredibly hard as well. Imagine an officer turning up to the scene and a member of the public is shooting at the attacker, what the **** does the officer do? Could easily end up shooting the person 'defending' themselves. I've seen reports where they said it made it a lot harder to deal with the Vegas situation because everyone was running around with guns out. 

[leicsmac]

3 hours ago, Webbo said:

There are too many in circulation, how can you stop one person selling his gun to another? What about the people who already own them? It's never going to happen.

While this is true, is it really a good thing to accept this as a fait accompli?

 

I mean, there are likely ways that these shootings can be mitigated without passing gun control laws - like making mental healthcare more easily accessible to those that need it - but the same politicians that aren't interested in gun control aren't interested in that, either - which suggests to me that they're happy with the status quo involving people getting mowed down as long as they personally aren't involved.

[Strokes]

3 hours ago, Webbo said:

There are too many in circulation, how can you stop one person selling his gun to another? What about the people who already own them? It's never going to happen.

You can’t but you can force people to have a licence to own one, with harsh punishments for having an unlicensed firearm. It won’t happen overnight but it won’t happen at all if you do nothing.

[Merging Cultures]

I don't buy the too many in circulation issue now either - there are things that can be done.

 

Have them all registered on a central database, track gun murders centrally too, etc.

 

Currently guns are tracked using a paper based system. It is absolutely useless. Upgrading the system has been blocked time and time again.

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Merging Cultures said:

I don't buy the too many in circulation issue now either - there are things that can be done.

 

Have them all registered on a central database, track gun murders centrally too, etc.

 

Currently guns are tracked using a paper based system. It is absolutely useless. Upgrading the system has been blocked time and time again.

It's the lack of will to do anything at all any time this happens that really gets to me tbh. Like I said, it's like the lawmakers actually don't mind the freedom to choose slaughter in the streets on a regular basis.

[leicsmac]

Related on a tangent to this, there's an interesting if wordy article about why human systems are messed up sometimes. This one uses the example of the US healthcare system, but the same argument and conclusion could be applied to gun control too:

 

https://www.lesserwrong.com/posts/x5ASTMPKPowLKpLpZ/moloch-s-toolbox-1-2

 

Key part: (When something bad happens), our world’s cowards and sheep would hear that and think that it’s (a) somebody else’s problem and (b) all part of the plan.

[leicsmac]

Oh, and this too:

 

http://newsthump.com/2017/10/02/satire-editor-wearily-hits-repost-on-mass-shooting-article-again/

[Webbo]

25 minutes ago, Merging Cultures said:

I don't buy the too many in circulation issue now either - there are things that can be done.

 

Have them all registered on a central database, track gun murders centrally too, etc.

 

Currently guns are tracked using a paper based system. It is absolutely useless. Upgrading the system has been blocked time and time again.

That's okay if all the guns already in circulation are registered but if you were opposed to gun laws and didn't want to give your gun up why would you register your gun? If you already own an illegal gun you definitely wouldn't register it. I'm not against gun control but you're closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.

[Captain...]

42 minutes ago, Strokes said:

You can’t but you can force people to have a licence to own one, with harsh punishments for having an unlicensed firearm. It won’t happen overnight but it won’t happen at all if you do nothing.

It is frustrating and maddening that every time this happens you get the same arguments. There are so many things that they could do to better control, monitor and regulate gun ownership. Even if it is a small thing that seems inadequate anything would be something. No response time and again proves how little value is placed on the lives of those needlessly slaughtered because lunatics, terrorists and criminals have uncontrolled access to guns. Doing nothing is the final insult to those who have died.

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Captain... said:

It is frustrating and maddening that every time this happens you get the same arguments. There are so many things that they could do to better control, monitor and regulate gun ownership. Even if it is a small thing that seems inadequate anything would be something. No response time and again proves how little value is placed on the lives of those needlessly slaughtered because lunatics, terrorists and criminals have uncontrolled access to guns.

 

Yup, see above.

 

Either "not my problem" or "part of the plan" (why on Earth such a "plan" would be worth two shites when it results in this is up for debate).

[Merging Cultures]

18 minutes ago, Webbo said:

That's okay if all the guns already in circulation are registered but if you were opposed to gun laws and didn't want to give your gun up why would you register your gun? If you already own an illegal gun you definitely wouldn't register it. I'm not against gun control but you're closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.

Disagree. Sure, some people are going to hold on to them and not register. Australia just had another amnesty and collected quite a few from people who held out. 

 

It's much better to try than to do nothing at all.

[ruletheworld]

17 hours ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

At least 27 dead

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-41880700

 

oh God it is keep going, looks like it will never end

 

[lifted*fox]

2 hours ago, Strokes said:

You can’t but you can force people to have a licence to own one, with harsh punishments for having an unlicensed firearm. It won’t happen overnight but it won’t happen at all if you do nothing.

 

Didn't Australia also have a massive gun amnesty which saw hundreds of thousands of guns removed from the streets year after year? 

 

People saying 'it's too late, there's too many guns' - well, that's just a cop-out really. 

 

It's never too late to do SOMETHING but yeah, it'll be a tough issue to sort. 

 

Still, knowing America - they'll do nothing at all and just keep on killing each other. 

[Detroit Blues]

4 hours ago, lifted*fox said:

 

Didn't Australia also have a massive gun amnesty which saw hundreds of thousands of guns removed from the streets year after year? 

 

People saying 'it's too late, there's too many guns' - well, that's just a cop-out really. 

 

It's never too late to do SOMETHING but yeah, it'll be a tough issue to sort. 

 

Still, knowing America - they'll do nothing at all and just keep on killing each other. 

I feel like the only people willing to hand in their guns won't be the ones using them illegally...   It's a tough problem to solve. It's easy if you were to build a society from scratch, you'd probably start with sensible policies like "hey, maybe we don't own guns and shoot eachother with them?"

 

Unfortunately, that's not really where we are at. We have nearly 300 million firearms in the US (nearly one per person.) We have a 3,000 km border between the US and mexico, and another 6400 km border between the US and Canada. If weapons were suddenly made illegal, what difference would it make? People who purchase firearms illegally would still continue to do so. The demand for firearms in the US would be met by willing sellers in Mexico and Canada. Look at how drugs are imported into the country: Cocaine, methamphetamines, etc. are all illegal in the US and do we consider the war on drugs to be a success?

 

Here's a local point of view which you might not have considered as to why so many Americans are gun crazy.According to the Department of Natural Resources:

- Michigan hunters boost the state's economy, spending $2.3 billion on trip-related expenses and equipment in 2011. 

- Michigan's hunter participation ranks third in the nation — 795,535 licensed hunters in 2011 — contributing nearly $28 million in federal funds to wildlife management and wildlife habitat restoration.

 

Many towns in Michigan's Upper Peninsula and northern Michigan count on Deer Hunting related tourism. Real Estate value of hunting land would decrease. The money used by selling Deer hunting licenses (that support maintaining Public Lands) would decrease. Here's a good local news article if you care to read - http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/2014/11/12/deer-hunting-season-michigan-economy/18937407/

 

So it's kind of like being the mayor for the movie Jaws, except change a giant man-eating shark with a pistol. How many kids are we willing to get eaten on the beach before we consider closing it down? 

 

 Other people do so for personal protection. Imagine being the only person in the City of Detroit who doesn't own a gun

"Across Detroit, police arrive in about 14.5 minutes for urgent Priority 1 calls, such as active shootings, robberies and assaults. That's down from 20 minutes in late 2015 and from more than 50 minutes in 2013. " If you lived in a high crime area, where at best you have to wait 14-15 minutes for a cop to arrive, would it change your mind on owning a weapon for self defense? 

 

At the end of the day, I'm not really sure what the answer is. I understand both points of view. Until we do something, these tragedies will continue, but what can be done that will make a real impact?

[leicsmac]

From an article in The Federalist:

 

"When we pray these words, we are certainly praying that God would deliver us from evil temporally—that is, in this earthly life. Through these words, we are asking God to send his holy angels to guard us from those who would seek to destroy us with knives and bombs and bullets. It may seem, on the surface, that God was refusing to give such protection to his Texan children. But we are also praying that God would deliver us from evil eternally. Through these same words, we are asking God to deliver us out of this evil world and into his heavenly glory, where no violence, persecution, cruelty, or hatred will ever afflict us again. We also pray in the Lord’s Prayer that God’s will be done. Sometimes, his will is done by allowing temporal evil to be the means through which he delivers us from eternal evil. Despite the best (or, more accurately, the worst) intentions of the wicked against his children, God hoists them on their own petard by using their wickedness to give those children his victory, even as the wicked often mock the prayers of their prey."

 

So...mindless violence is God's will, folks. Straight from the mouth of His designated agents on Earth.

[urban.spaceman]

2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

From an article in The Federalist:

 

"When we pray these words, we are certainly praying that God would deliver us from evil temporally—that is, in this earthly life. Through these words, we are asking God to send his holy angels to guard us from those who would seek to destroy us with knives and bombs and bullets. It may seem, on the surface, that God was refusing to give such protection to his Texan children. But we are also praying that God would deliver us from evil eternally. Through these same words, we are asking God to deliver us out of this evil world and into his heavenly glory, where no violence, persecution, cruelty, or hatred will ever afflict us again. We also pray in the Lord’s Prayer that God’s will be done. Sometimes, his will is done by allowing temporal evil to be the means through which he delivers us from eternal evil. Despite the best (or, more accurately, the worst) intentions of the wicked against his children, God hoists them on their own petard by using their wickedness to give those children his victory, even as the wicked often mock the prayers of their prey."

 

So...mindless violence is God's will, folks. Straight from the mouth of His designated agents on Earth.

2

Not being funny but every description of God makes him come across as an utter cvnt. As far as I'm concerned he can fvck off. Je Suis no thank you God. pr!ck.