Girl, two, recovered from car in river at Cardigan dies

[MPH]

On 3/20/2018 at 07:34, Bellend Sebastian said:

Oh Christ.

 

People (including children) die in accidents all the time but there's something about being trapped underwater that freaks me out especially.

 

Poor little mite, poor family

 

 

I used to work in the children's ICU at the Leicester Royal and the one story that still haunts  me is the time when a man's car careered off the road near a bridge and went into the river. two of them died at the scene and one of them later in hospital. I remember one of the older ones telling me that he head was just above the waterline and she knew her younger sister was right next to her in her car seat but was under the water and she just couldn't grab hold of her, just hoorrific..

[MC Prussian]

On 20.3.2018 at 13:53, Strokes said:

I don’t like to pass judgement but you should never leave a child alone in car though. It’s an accident waiting to happen, poor little kid.

I recall similarly tragic cases with children being trapped in a car in plain sunlight in the summer. The car then acts as one big oven and the kids either suffer a massive heatstroke or die (dehydrate) from the prolonged exposure.

 

Happens to dogs very often, too.

[Strokes]

2 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

I recall similarly tragic cases with children being trapped in a car in plain sunlight in the summer. The car then acts as one big oven and the kids either suffer a massive heatstroke or die (dehydrate) from the prolonged exposure.

 

Happens to dogs very often, too.

Yeah it’s awful, you can forgive this family in respect as it was more convenience than neglect but it just goes to show how quickly devestating things can happen. 

[Buce]

1 hour ago, Strokes said:

Yeah it’s awful, you can forgive this family in respect as it was more convenience than neglect but it just goes to show how quickly devestating things can happen. 

 

I think you're being too kind, mate.

 

All sorts of things can happen to parked vehicles - electrical fires, theft (as was originally suspected), other vehicles crashing into it etc. It's an unpleasant truth but leaving a kid of that age alone in a vehicle is negligence.

[FoxesDeb]

1 hour ago, Buce said:

 

I think you're being too kind, mate.

 

All sorts of things can happen to parked vehicles - electrical fires, theft (as was originally suspected), other vehicles crashing into it etc. It's an unpleasant truth but leaving a kid of that age alone in a vehicle is negligence.

I don't agree that it's negligent. The parents could just as easily have taken her back into the office with them, and she could have darted away and fallen in the water. In that case the parents would forever wish they had just left her safely in the car. It's a tragic accident, and nothing more. 

[Buce]

1 minute ago, FoxesDeb said:

I don't agree that it's negligent. The parents could just as easily have taken her back into the office with them, and she could have darted away and fallen in the water. In that case the parents would forever wish they had just left her safely in the car. It's a tragic accident, and nothing more. 

 

Then she would have been in her parent's care.

 

Clearly, there was no safety in being left unattended in the car.

[FoxesDeb]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

Then she would have been in her parent's care.

 

Clearly, there was no safety in being left unattended in the car.

I don't understand how that makes it any better? Both would be a tragic accident

[Wymsey]

If I were a parent that had to go back to a river-side business for a couple of minutes to get something, I'd think carefully about where to park the vehicle (such as certainly not on a hilly/sloped road leading to deep water) especially if they want the child to stay inside it for a short period.

[fuchsntf]

14 minutes ago, Wymeswold fox said:

If I were a parent that had to go back to a river-side business for a couple of minutes to get something, I'd think carefully about where to park the vehicle (such as certainly not on a hilly/sloped road leading to deep water) especially if they want the child to stay inside it for a short period.

Cant See If any other way...

[Strokes]

2 hours ago, Buce said:

 

I think you're being too kind, mate.

 

All sorts of things can happen to parked vehicles - electrical fires, theft (as was originally suspected), other vehicles crashing into it etc. It's an unpleasant truth but leaving a kid of that age alone in a vehicle is negligence.

I am being kind, I said more convenience than neglect. I’m not totally absolving them but I sure as hell sympathise, with both the parents and the little girl. It’s tragic.

[DB11]

If only she'd left it in gear, which I was always taught to do and always have. Poor soul

[Buce]

2 hours ago, Strokes said:

I am being kind, I said more convenience than neglect. I’m not totally absolving them but I sure as hell sympathise, with both the parents and the little girl. It’s tragic.

 

Sure, I sympathise too.

 

But it was avoidable, nonetheless.

 

2 hours ago, FoxesDeb said:

I don't understand how that makes it any better? Both would be a tragic accident

 

Because, if she fell in the water while in her parents' care, they would be there to rescue her. With the exception of the time factor (I don't know how long she was left unattended), it's no different to the McCann case. I accept that it was an unlikely accident but I don't believe you should trust to luck where your child's safety is concerned.

[NorthfieldsFox]

On 20/03/2018 at 11:04, stripeyfox said:

Something really does not stack up about this story. First and foremost, it is an absolute tragedy that a two year old girl has drowned. But the story about the car being stolen really doesn't add up....

 

 

 

 

You were 100% right , I said same thing and even tonight the handbrake off story isn’t resting easy with me 

[NorthfieldsFox]

3 hours ago, Wymeswold fox said:

If I were a parent that had to go back to a river-side business for a couple of minutes to get something, I'd think carefully about where to park the vehicle (such as certainly not on a hilly/sloped road leading to deep water) especially if they want the child to stay inside it for a short period.

This , think about it , who would do that if you look at the google map it’s not even required to park like that , so strange , so tragic 

[FoxesDeb]

22 hours ago, Buce said:

 

Sure, I sympathise too.

 

But it was avoidable, nonetheless.

 

 

Because, if she fell in the water while in her parents' care, they would be there to rescue her. With the exception of the time factor (I don't know how long she was left unattended), it's no different to the McCann case. I accept that it was an unlikely accident but I don't believe you should trust to luck where your child's safety is concerned.

Going to have to disagree on this then, I think lots of decisions parents (and people in general) make rely on luck, in this case luck wasn't on their side, and they will have to live with it forever. 

[Trav Le Bleu]

Here's an interesting thought. Should they be charged with manslaughter? Obviously, living with their mistake is in itself a punishment, but then that could be said for a lot of people who have been convicted of manslaughter.

 

Not being harsh, just wondering exactly what should happen? Just look at what happened at Bosworth Water Park a couple of years back. 

Edited 22 March 2018 by Trav Le Bleu

[Strokes]

7 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Here's an interesting thought. Should they be charged with manslaughter? Obviously, living with their mistake is in itself a punishment, but then that could be said for a lot of people who have been convicted of manslaughter.

 

Not being harsh, just wondering exactly what should happen? Just look at what happened at Bosworth Water Park a couple of years back. 

On the evidence I’ve seen I would say no, the bosworth water case had shown several cases of neglect prior to the tragedy and they were rightfully brought to justice. Unless there is form for abuse, I’d say this was an unintentional neglectful error. 

[stripeyfox]

9 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Here's an interesting thought. Should they be charged with manslaughter? Obviously, living with their mistake is in itself a punishment, but then that could be said for a lot of people who have been convicted of manslaughter.

 

Not being harsh, just wondering exactly what should happen? Just look at what happened at Bosworth Water Park a couple of years back. 

I think the Bosworth incident was willful negligence. They knew the kid was scared of the water, couldn't swim and left him unattended for a long period of time.

 

I can see what you're saying but I think I'd come down on the side of would it be in the public interest to prosecute this person for an error of judgment which resulted in tragedy.

 

 

[Ronish Baxter]

On 20/03/2018 at 17:14, stripeyfox said:

 

I've left my kids in the car before for a few minutes (if they were napping for example or whilst I take the shopping into the house, or take the trolley back at the supermarket ).

 

Now the red herring of the car theft appears to have been cleared up it is simply a tragic accident it seems. You can "judge" the parents for leaving her in the car, but I've done the same and nearly everyone I know with kids has done so too at some point I'd wager.

 

Yea, I know that coz I also have done that a few times. Simply, tragic, Loss of a little life, horrible to think how the parents would be feeling.

[stripeyfox]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-46347368

 

fter fearing their car had been stolen with their two-year-old daughter inside, a couple then found it had rolled into a river, an inquest heard.

Kiara Moore was found inside the vehicle in the River Teifi, Cardigan, in March and later pronounced dead.

In recording a conclusion of misadventure, coroner Peter Brunton called it "a catastrophic event" to happen to any parents.

Kiara had been left alone for two minutes as her mother went to get cash.

In a statement issued after the inquest, Kiara's family said she was "an amazing little girl who lived a life full of love and adventure".

The hearing at Aberystwyth Justice Centre was told the silver Mini was parked on a slipway outside the family business, Adventure Beyond, on 21 March.

Kiara's mother Kim Rowlands put her daughter in the vehicle at about 15:30 GMT and went to get cash from inside the business.

When she returned the car had "vanished" and police were called.

But CCTV footage showed in the two minutes Ms Rowlands had left Kiara, the car had rolled into the river.

Image captionA tribute from Kiara's nursery, Cylch Meithrin Drefach Felindre, was left on the riverside

PCSO Caryl Griffiths, who dived into the water when the car was located in the river, broke down as she described to the inquest her efforts to get to Kiara.

"I dived head first into the river, the water was freezing cold and I could tell the current was really strong, pulling my head under the water.

"It was dirty and I could not see anything underwater."

Another police officer joined and helped Ms Griffiths smash a window.

"I immediately felt Kiara's body float out of the car into my arms," she said, adding she knew it was the toddler as she was wearing a pink jacket described by her parents.

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Ms Griffiths said after she got Kiara's body to shore, another officer began performing CPR.

The girl was flown to the University Hospital of Wales in Cardiff, where she was pronounced dead.

But the inquest was told Kiara would have drowned within 30 seconds of the car entering the water.

In a statement Ms Rowlands described her daughter "singing, shouting and laughing" when she left her, but not strapped in and in a "mischievous mood".

She said her only guess was she had "a funny five minutes".

 

Media captionTributes were paid to two-year-old Kiara Moore

Her father, Jet Moore, said there had not been any issues with the Mini apart from "normal wear and tear" and Kiara knew not to play with the controls and "had no interest". 

The inquest was told the vehicle was found in third gear without the handbrake applied. 

Forensic vehicle examiner Aled Thomas said the handbrake was efficient and it would have taken "some effort" to release it.

The cause of Kiara's death was given as immersion, with the coroner saying on the balance of probabilities, the handbrake had not been set when Kiara was left in the car.

No charges were brought by Dyfed-Powys Police.

Image copyright@IGLWY/TWITTER Image captionCoastguard rescue teams and the RNLI searched the River Teifi

The family's statement said: "She left us all with a huge gap in our lives this year.

"Since she has been gone, not a day has passed where we have not spoken about her life with us, her brother, sisters and wider family. 

"We had so many adventures with her in her short life."