Webbo Posted 19 June 2018 Posted 19 June 2018 1 minute ago, Facecloth said: Peak Webbo isn't. Make a ridiculous statement, ignore all evidence to the contrary, provide no evidence yourself, don't properly read peoples responses and stubbornly stand by your position despite overwhelming proof you're talking bollocks. I knew you'd get brave as soon as there was a group behind you. Give me any evidence that Vardy would have been better other than Sterling was crap?
Facecloth Posted 19 June 2018 Posted 19 June 2018 Just now, Webbo said: I knew you'd get brave as soon as there was a group behind you. Give me any evidence that Vardy would have been better other than Sterling was crap? Refer to all @Finnegan's posts. All the evidence is there. Vardy strength is his pace, his quickness of thought and his finishing ability, two of which Sterling lacks, and exactly what was needed to take a couple of those chance last night. The evidence is watch Vardy play, if you still think he's only good at running in behind, then maybe football isn't for you.
Manwell Pablo Posted 19 June 2018 Posted 19 June 2018 3 minutes ago, Webbo said: That doesn't prove that Vardy would have been better. I'm getting fed up with this now. I made a point, some people disagree, so what? So nothing I wasn't having a go. You've just literally stated the purpose of a forum It is obviously impossible to "prove" Vardy would of contributed more other than I'd of fancied him to tuck away a lot of the chances that fell to some of our players that were well and truly fluffed, he's a goals scorer. But as I say seriously anyone other than Sterling, play Sterling in a three by all means but two central strikers Rashford or Vardy please. 1
Dames Posted 19 June 2018 Posted 19 June 2018 I might be a bit bias but that team is crying out for a player like Vardy mainly because of the movement he offers. With Sterling, Alli and Lingard you have 3 players that like to occupy the same position on the pitch which is infront of the defence looking to run at the defence with the ball - Only 1 player is needed for this position because we have no players running beyond the defence looking to drag defenders or create space for these types of players to either play them in or exploit the space thats been made. Instead we just have Alli, Lingard and Sterling getting in each others way and running down blind alleys, its so easy to defend because you just set up deep and wait for them to run into you or pass the ball backwards. There is absolutely no-one stretching the game up front the only player that really did this was Trippier and it shown as he was our main creative outlet. This also gives teams a chance to mark Kane out of the game because the trio of Alli, Lingard and Sterling are so easy to defend against because 9/10 they are infront of them. Personally I would swap out Sterling for Vardy and Lingard for Loftus-Cheek. Vardy so he can occupy defenders and drag them creating more space for other players not to mention his finishing is levels above the 3 that started last night. Loftus-Cheek offers something different, isn't lightweight and will give more options in the middle of the park. So many times Henderson was looking for movement in and around him last night but because Alli, Lingard and Sterling were all ontop of each other 'in the hole' Henderson had no options - Good teams will expose this space on the break and completely overrun us. Also Rose needs to be starting ahead of Young purely because he's left footed and it would benefit the team on quick breaks not having someone having to cut back and slow the game down.
Webbo Posted 19 June 2018 Posted 19 June 2018 2 minutes ago, Facecloth said: Refer to all @Finnegan's posts. All the evidence is there. Vardy strength is his pace, his quickness of thought and his finishing ability, two of which Sterling lacks, and exactly what was needed to take a couple of those chance last night. The evidence is watch Vardy play, if you still think he's only good at running in behind, then maybe football isn't for you. Finners opinion is no more evidence than mine. Now if you could come up with some concrete facts of your own rather than hiding behind other people's post I'd appreciate it.
Facecloth Posted 19 June 2018 Posted 19 June 2018 2 minutes ago, Webbo said: Finners opinion is no more evidence than mine. Now if you could come up with some concrete facts of your own rather than hiding behind other people's post I'd appreciate it. He listed all the goals Vardy had scored, just for England let alone Leicester that weren't down to him running in behind. That's not opinion that's cold hard facts. Now if you have facts that disprove those facts then you're on to something, otherwise you're wrong.
Finnegan Posted 19 June 2018 Posted 19 June 2018 1 minute ago, Webbo said: Finners opinion is no more evidence than mine. Now if you could come up with some concrete facts of your own rather than hiding behind other people's post I'd appreciate it. Finners opinion that is backed up by goal scoring, shooting and clear cut chance statistics and Jamie Vardy's catalogue of England goals to date has a lot more evidence than "well I just don't think that..." I've gone through this entire exchange without being an academic snob and I don't particularly want to fall in to that trap now but I think you might need to go away and look up how a debate or scholarly argument actually works given how many of them you like to wade in to. You write an academic paper, you're expected to prove your argument, the onus is on you to do so. This is a football forum on the Internet, not Oxbridge, I completely concede that and I wouldn't expect or demand you to write an essay or dissertation just to make your claim that Vardy is one dimensional. But given you haven't been able to offer any explanation AT ALL why you're claiming what you're claiming, you probably would be better just winding your neck in and not getting involved in debates. You don't have Matt to do the leg work for you when it's not politics so you can't just sit around being a right wing cheerleader. Nobody's forcing you to keep responding, you could well just bow out and concede that you probably didn't think it through before you spoke. Hell, you can even go full ostrich and just not come back to the thread if your pride is playing up. But debating means evidencing, not just saying "well it's my opinion, so nerrrrr!" 2
Mark Posted 19 June 2018 Posted 19 June 2018 If Vardy played no one would have passed it to him anyway, those chances wouldn't have fell his way so there we go.
Webbo Posted 19 June 2018 Posted 19 June 2018 11 minutes ago, Facecloth said: He listed all the goals Vardy had scored, just for England let alone Leicester that weren't down to him running in behind. That's not opinion that's cold hard facts. Now if you have facts that disprove those facts then you're on to something, otherwise you're wrong. Vardy has score 7 goals for England against Germany, Holland,Turkey, Wales, Spain, Lithuania and Spain. All teams with the acception of Lithuania who wouldn't sit back. He's failed to score against Malta, Iceland, Slovakia,Estonia, San Marino and Costa Rica. That, to me suggests he has more luck against more attacking teams. http://englandstats.com/players.php?pid=1212
Facecloth Posted 19 June 2018 Posted 19 June 2018 Just now, Webbo said: Vardy has score 7 goals for England against Germany, Holland,Turkey, Wales, Spain, Lithuania and Spain. All teams with the acception of Lithuania who wouldn't sit back. He's failed to score against Malta, Iceland, Slovakia,Estonia and Costa Rica. That, to me suggests he has more luck against more attacking teams. More luck, but it's not proof he's only good at running in behind. Look at the goals, none of them down to running in behind, all down to movement and quickness of thought.
Webbo Posted 19 June 2018 Posted 19 June 2018 Just now, Facecloth said: More luck, but it's not proof he's only good at running in behind. Look at the goals, none of them down to running in behind, all down to movement and quickness of thought. So actual facts aren't proof but your opinion is?
Facecloth Posted 19 June 2018 Posted 19 June 2018 1 minute ago, Webbo said: So actual facts aren't proof but your opinion is? How the **** have you got the cheek to make that statement! Watch the goals, that's fact. Just looking at the opposition and how they might play isn't fact. His goals in those games were not due to running in behind they were due to his speed of thought and finishing ability. Watching the goals is proof. Your opinion on how those teams set up, isn't fact, especially when attacking more and leaving space behind had no influence on the goals, as proven by watching them.
the fox Posted 19 June 2018 Posted 19 June 2018 So, I got a comment restriction for a day because I was supporting Tunisia? Didn't get the memo about this forum becoming the England NT's. Anyways, happy for England and Harry. The team is actually playing some entertaining football. People shouldn't be too worried about the missed chances The Tunisian keeper(s) played very well and some of those missed chances were mostly tension and the pressure of needing to perform on the first game. As long as Kane (and Vards off the bench) is there, finishing shouldn't be a problem 1
Finnegan Posted 19 June 2018 Posted 19 June 2018 15 minutes ago, Webbo said: Vardy has score 7 goals for England against Germany, Holland,Turkey, Wales, Spain, Lithuania and Spain. All teams with the acception of Lithuania who wouldn't sit back. He's failed to score against Malta, Iceland, Slovakia,Estonia, San Marino and Costa Rica. That, to me suggests he has more luck against more attacking teams. http://englandstats.com/players.php?pid=1212 Now go back and read my first reply, there's a good chap. You'll find them all on YouTube if you need a refresher.
Webbo Posted 19 June 2018 Posted 19 June 2018 6 minutes ago, Facecloth said: How the **** have you got the cheek to make that statement! Watch the goals, that's fact. Just looking at the opposition and how they might play isn't fact. His goals in those games were not due to running in behind they were due to his speed of thought and finishing ability. Watching the goals is proof. Your opinion on how those teams set up, isn't fact, especially when attacking more and leaving space behind had no influence on the goals, as proven by watching them. Believe me, I watch England every match. Now I think we can agree that Germany have better players than San Marino,Spain are better than Estonia or Italy are better than Malta (unless you want me to prove that as well?) but Vardy couldn't score against those lesser teams. You don't have to be Pep Guardiola to see there might be a pattern there.
Webbo Posted 19 June 2018 Posted 19 June 2018 1 minute ago, Finnegan said: Now go back and read my first reply, there's a good chap. You'll find them all on YouTube if you need a refresher. Have you got any youtube clips of him not scoring against San Marino?
Facecloth Posted 19 June 2018 Posted 19 June 2018 Just now, Webbo said: Believe me, I watch England every match. Now I think we can agree that Germany have better players than San Marino,Spain are better than Estonia or Italy are better than Malta (unless you want me to prove that as well?) but Vardy couldn't score against those lesser teams. You don't have to be Pep Guardiola to see there might be a pattern there. But that isn't proof he's only good at running in behind is it!!!!!! Watch the goals. Seriously watch them back. It's not about who has better players it's about the style of goal he scored totally counter you opinion that's he'd only good at running in behind. In fact if anything it proves he can step up against top opposition and get space against top class defenders.
Webbo Posted 19 June 2018 Posted 19 June 2018 Just now, Facecloth said: But that isn't proof he's only good at running in behind is it!!!!!! Watch the goals. Seriously watch them back. It's not about who has better players it's about the style of goal he scored totally counter you opinion that's he'd only good at running in behind. In fact if anything it proves he can step up against top opposition and get space against top class defenders. I never said he's only good at running behind, at said that was his strength. Now if I'm wrong, can you tell me why he never scored against Estonia?
Dames Posted 19 June 2018 Posted 19 June 2018 3 minutes ago, Webbo said: Believe me, I watch England every match. Now I think we can agree that Germany have better players than San Marino,Spain are better than Estonia or Italy are better than Malta (unless you want me to prove that as well?) but Vardy couldn't score against those lesser teams. You don't have to be Pep Guardiola to see there might be a pattern there. Raheem Sterling hasn't scored against any of those teams either (The good or the bad ones) and his only goals are against Lithuania and Estonia nearly 3 years ago. I know who i'd rather have in the team and thats Vardy and even if he isn't scoring other teams regard him as that much of a threat they tend to pay closer attention to him which opens spaces up for other players to perform. When was the last time you could turn around and say in an international England game that Raheem Sterling had a good game and was the difference? its been nearly 3 years.
Max Wall Posted 19 June 2018 Posted 19 June 2018 7 minutes ago, the fox said: So, I got a comment restriction for a day because I was supporting Tunisia? Didn't get the memo about this forum becoming the England NT's. Anyways, happy for England and Harry. The team is actually playing some entertaining football. People shouldn't be too worried about the missed chances The Tunisian keeper(s) played very well and some of those missed chances were mostly tension and the pressure of needing to perform on the first game. As long as Kane (and Vards off the bench) is there, finishing shouldn't be a problem Really? That's pretty poor. Oh and hard luck 1
Facecloth Posted 19 June 2018 Posted 19 June 2018 1 minute ago, Webbo said: Have you got any youtube clips of him not scoring against San Marino? And how is that proof he's only good at running in behind? We're saying he can score all numerous types of goals, there video evidence. You want to proves he's only good at running in behind, find the video evidence and show us. But that fact we've already pointed you towards video evidence from other matches that prove that statement wrong it would be pretty futile.
Webbo Posted 19 June 2018 Posted 19 June 2018 Just now, Dames said: Raheem Sterling hasn't scored against any of those teams either (The good or the bad ones) and his only goals are against Lithuania and Estonia nearly 3 years ago. I know who i'd rather have in the team and thats Vardy and even if he isn't scoring other teams regard him as that much of a threat they tend to pay closer attention to him which opens spaces up for other players to perform. When was the last time you could turn around and say in an international England game that Raheem Sterling had a good game and was the difference? its been nearly 3 years. When did I say Sterling had a good game? I thought Rashford did okay when he came on for him.
The Horse's Mouth Posted 19 June 2018 Posted 19 June 2018 I know he's a club hero, but some of you definitely need to put this Vardy bias aside, it's actually a bit embarrassing 1
Webbo Posted 19 June 2018 Posted 19 June 2018 2 minutes ago, Facecloth said: And how is that proof he's only good at running in behind? We're saying he can score all numerous types of goals, there video evidence. You want to proves he's only good at running in behind, find the video evidence and show us. But that fact we've already pointed you towards video evidence from other matches that prove that statement wrong it would be pretty futile. You're telling me I'm wrong, it's up to you to prove it.
Facecloth Posted 19 June 2018 Posted 19 June 2018 1 minute ago, Webbo said: I never said he's only good at running behind, at said that was his strength. Now if I'm wrong, can you tell me why he never scored against Estonia? But his strength of also quick thinking and lethal finishing in the box. People can have more than one strength you know. No if I'm wrong can you tell me how he scored the goal v Wales? Or Germany? Or Spain? Or Holland? Or the goals for City v Chelsea, Sunderland, Liverpool etc I could go on.
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