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[bovril]

59 minutes ago, Strokes said:

You lefties make me laugh, you’ve spent years telling us you don’t mind being hit in the pocket to create a better society but when we do the same, it’s treated with disbelief and labelled racist more often than not.

You also spend years telling us that the media is poison and is trying to frighten us, then lap up shit like this. 

Brexit has deranged the country.

I think that's a fair point. Although I don't really agree with Brexiters vision for the UK, I don't see how 'some things are more important than money' is a particularly strange or controversial position. 

Edited 22 March 2019 by bovril

[Strokes]

44 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

The relevant part of that is to create a better society. 

 

I’ve yet to see a Leaver explain what will be better about society without resorting to xenophobic statements about foreigners or a nostalgic belief in unicorn Britain taking its rightful place as a world leader. 

 

I know you don’t subscribe to any of that shit, so that post baffles me, tbh, bro. 

I’ve explained before why I believe it will create a fairer society, how I believe that mass immigration cause stagnation of wages and serves non of us well.

There is also the damage that mass migration does to the departing countries, they are training our doctors and nurses, and not getting the benefit from it.

I don’t like globalisation and I think we can successfully break the trend, if it’s done right, not that there is any sign of that happening sadly. But we certainly won’t do it as a part of this racket.

[bovril]

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

I don’t like globalisation and I think we can successfully break the trend, if it’s done right, not that there is any sign of that happening sadly. But we certainly won’t do it as a part of this racket.

The forces of what people call as 'globalisation' are arguably stronger outside the EU than within.

[Fox In The Box 90]

3 minutes ago, Strokes said:

You lefties make me laugh, you’ve spent years telling us you don’t mind being hit in the pocket to create a better society but when we do the same, it’s treated with disbelief and labelled racist more often than not.

You also spend years telling us that the media is poison and is trying to frighten us, then lap up shit like this. 

Brexit has deranged the country.

Yes youre right brexit has deranged the country.

 

Because no one can ever advance the conversation beyond "we voted to leave". 

 

You talk about creating a better society but you, or any other leave voter cant explain what will be better, except to:

 

a) talk about immigration numbers as if its some "positive" when many people have absolutely no problem with immigration numbers, are aware of powers the UK has but chooses not to use, and are aware of government figures that back up the idea wage compression is either not happening in the vast majority of industries due to immigration or wage compression is its due to other factors.

 

b) you resort to talking about "control" and "sovereignty" and all of this. Not withstanding the fact we have many ELECTED representatives that are complete arseholes, people on your side genuinely seem to think there will be no involvement with supernational courts anymore and you didnt elect the WTO, the people who will approve our trade schedules, the civil service, the attorney general, the queen.....the list goes on. It just makes your sovereignty argument look silly.

 

c) you talk about ****ing FISH when we have enormous employers like JLR, Nissan, Honda, Airbus and many many more explicitly telling us exactly why brexit will be so bad, some of who are already making redundancies, whilst we grow an industry thats worth about 0.5% of GDP assuming either we totally change our diets and eat more fish or the tariffs are low enough we can still sell into europe. 

 

D) the point ive made many times still remains. YOUR side invented project fear. Project fear was invented to shut up people who predicted down sides to brexit, it was to make sure they were ignored.

 

You cannot in any way reconcile the creation of project fear, with saying you dont mind being hit in the pocket. Youve absolutely tied yourself in knots by saying i think the predictions of the remain side are correct, and the leave side are false. However i will also deride the remain side and vote for leave whilst ignoring my own sides campaign and believing remain

 

Why cant you, or anyone else just explain what you think will be better after brexit for everyone. Everyone who isnt you.

 

Without resorting to all the tired soundbites anyone can instantly destroy

Edited 22 March 2019 by Fox In The Box 90

[Buce]

13 minutes ago, Strokes said:

It has happened, the money has been pledged and allocated.

 

Not true.

 

All 'ifs', 'buts' and empty promises of a non-existent 'Brexit dividend', and tax rises that the right of her party will never allow.

 

"The NHS in England is to get an extra £20bn a year by 2023 as a 70th "birthday present", Theresa May says.

It means the £114bn budget will rise by an average of 3.4% annually - but that is still less than the 3.7% average rise the NHS has had since 1948.

The prime minister said this would be funded partly by a "Brexit dividend", but also hinted at tax rises."

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44495598

Edited 22 March 2019 by Buce

[Strokes]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

Not true.

 

All 'ifs', 'buts' and empty promises of a non-existent 'Brexit dividend', and tax rises that the right of her party will never allow.

 

"The NHS in England is to get an extra £20bn a year by 2023 as a 70th "birthday present", Theresa May says.

It means the £114bn budget will rise by an average of 3.4% annually - but that is still less than the 3.7% average rise the NHS has had since 1948.

The prime minister said this would be funded partly by a "Brexit dividend", but also hinted at tax rises.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44495598

But we don’t mind tax rises for NHS, your a lefty.

Brexit might not find it directly but it got that money because of the bus. So voting leave still made it happen, even if tax rises (that you guys don’t mind) to fund it.

[Strokes]

4 minutes ago, Fox In The Box 90 said:

Yes youre right brexit has deranged the country.

 

Because no one can ever advance the conversation beyond "we voted to leave". 

 

You talk about creating a better society but you, or any other leave voter cant explain what will be better, except to:

 

a) talk about immigration numbers as if its some "positive" when many people have absolutely no problem with immigration numbers, are aware of powers the UK has but chooses not to use, and are aware of government figures that back up the idea wage compression is either not happening in the vast majority of industries due to immigration or wage compression is its due to other factors.

 

b) you resort to talking about "control" and "sovereignty" and all of this. Not withstanding the fact we have many ELECTED representatives that are complete arseholes, people on your side genuinely seem to think there will be no involvement with supernational courts anymore and you didnt elect the WTO, the people who will approve our trade schedules, the civil service, the attorney general, the queen.....the list goes on. It just makes your sovereignty argument look silly.

 

c) you talk about ****ing FISH when we have enormous employers like JLR, Nissan, Honda, Airbus and many many more explicitly telling us exactly why brexit will be so bad, some of who are already making redundancies, whilst we grow an industry thats worth about 0.5% of GDP assuming either we totally change our diets and eat more fish or the tariffs are low enough we can still sell into europe. 

 

D) the point ive made many times still remains. YOUR side invented project fear. Project fear was invented to shut up people who predicted down sides to brexit, it was to make sure they were ignored.

 

You cannot in any way reconcile the creation of project fear, with saying you dont mind being hit in the pocket. Youve absolutely tied yourself in knots by saying i think the predictions of the remain side are correct, and the leave side are false. However i will also deride the remain side and vote for leave whilst ignoring my own sides campaign and believing remain

 

Why cant you, or anyone else just explain what you think will be better after brexit for everyone. Everyone who isnt you.

 

Without resorting to all the tired soundbites anyone can instantly destroy

I’ve not resorted to any soundbites and you are just trying to make my arguments for me. Try responding to the content in my posts please.

[Buce]

Just now, Strokes said:

But we don’t mind tax rises for NHS, your a lefty.

Brexit might not find it directly but it got that money because of the bus. So voting leave still made it happen, even if tax rises (that you guys don’t mind) to fund it.

 

Mate, there will be no tax rises and certainly no 'Brexit dividend'.

 

It's just hot air and empty rhetoric.

[Fox In The Box 90]

Just now, Strokes said:

I’ve not resorted to any soundbites and you are just trying to make my arguments for me. Try responding to the content in my posts please.

You dont have an argument.

 

Youve got immigration and not liking globalisation.

 

Its hardly an outward looking viewpoint and hardly fits with our necessity to find new trade deals either

[Strokes]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

Mate, there will be no tax rises and certainly no 'Brexit dividend'.

 

It's just hot air and empty rhetoric.

Because it’s less than the NHS has averaged annually, does mean it’s not getting more of an increase than was initially planned.

[Innovindil]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

Mate, there will be no tax rises and certainly no 'Brexit dividend'.

 

It's just hot air and empty rhetoric.

Whilst you are seeing the future can I have tomorrow's lottery numbers please?

[Strokes]

5 minutes ago, Fox In The Box 90 said:

You dont have an argument.

 

Youve got immigration and not liking globalisation.

 

Its hardly an outward looking viewpoint and hardly fits with our necessity to find new trade deals either

It’s not all I’ve got, it’s part of what I’ve got. I’m yet to see you critique it.

I don’t care about trade deals, I’d rather see us put a blanket over the UK and protect and nationalise some of our industries.

Edited 22 March 2019 by Strokes

[Buce]

2 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Whilst you are seeing the future can I have tomorrow's lottery numbers please?

 

If you believe there will be a Brexit dividend then you haven't been paying attention.

 

And the right of her party will never allow tax rises.

[Buce]

13 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Because it’s less than the NHS has averaged annually, does mean it’s not getting more of an increase than was initially planned.

 

You've gone from 'got' to 'getting'.

 

If after everything you've witnessed over the last couple of years you still have faith in any promise made by Theresa May, you're not as intelligent as I think you are.

Edited 22 March 2019 by Buce

[Fox In The Box 90]

Just now, Strokes said:

It’s not all I’ve got, it’s part of what I’ve got. I’m yet to see you critique it.

I don’t care about trade deals, I’d rather see us put a blanket of the UK and protect and nationalise some of our industries.

So youre one of these we dont need trade deals lets go wto people then.

 

Either you think we will build, grow and provide every possible service here or you think trading on wto terms whilst our closest trading partners have preferential deals with each other and 70+ countries and markets will be better.

 

So explain now why you believe trading on wto terms whilst our closest trading partners have preferential deals with each other and 70+ countries and markets is better.

 

Or explain your "nationalised" industry plan. What will make that better?

[Leicester_Loyal]

3 hours ago, Lionator said:

This part just makes me so sad that we're leaving regardless of deal or no deal. We've been well and truly stonewalled by a union which has it's members best interests at heart. What do we have now, who is looking after our best interests let alone all of the other stuff which comes with leaving? What a terrible act of national self harm by half a country of people with an inflated sense of Britain's worth on the world stage. We're nothing now.  

 

If the EU were a Footballer, they'd be Diego Godin at the King Power in 2017. If The UK were a Footballer, they'd be Ade Akinbiyi v Liverpool in 2001-02. 

Jesus Christ.

 

The EU are just like the majority of our own politicians, self serving with only their interests at heart.

 

You really think the EU have our best interests at heart? Then why didn't they give us concessions when Cameron went cap in hand twice a few years ago.

 

On another note, if we do leave without a deal we'll survive, we'll be fine. Anyone who thinks we'll have medicine, food or other shortages has their head firmly up their backside, plenty of countries survice and are not in the EU.

Edited 22 March 2019 by Leicester_Loyal

[Strokes]

1 minute ago, Fox In The Box 90 said:

So youre one of these we dont need trade deals lets go wto people then.

 

Either you think we will build, grow and provide every possible service here or you think trading on wto terms whilst our closest trading partners have preferential deals with each other and 70+ countries and markets will be better.

 

So explain now why you believe trading on wto terms whilst our closest trading partners have preferential deals with each other and 70+ countries and markets is better.

 

Or explain your "nationalised" industry plan. What will make that better?

Trading on WTO terms will make foreign products more expensive, therefore home products more competitive here. This country is a lucrative enough market for its own people.

If you think buying a cheap T-Shirt from primark/Nike trainers or whatever is ethical then fair enough. I’d just rather they were made here than by some poor child. Not having trade deals does not mean we can’t buy tat from abroad, it just adds a levy that is at our discretion. So we can easily move away from these shameless markets.

[bovril]

Strokes is my favourite Brexiter. 

[Guest MattP]

27 minutes ago, Buce said:

If you believe there will be a Brexit dividend then you haven't been paying attention.

 

And the right of her party will never allow tax rises.

They already are raising taxes and have been doing. It's disgraceful. 

 

Maybe pay attention to the Chancellor rather than relying on outdated conspiracy theory.

[Fox In The Box 90]

Just now, Strokes said:

Trading on WTO terms will make foreign products more expensive, therefore home products more competitive here. This country is a lucrative enough market for its own people.

If you think buying a cheap T-Shirt from primark/Nike trainers or whatever is ethical then fair enough. I’d just rather they were made here than by some poor child. Not having trade deals does not mean we can’t buy tat from abroad, it just adds a levy that is at our discretion. So we can easily move away from these shameless markets.

If you assume that manufacturers wont need materials or components for their products that need to cross borders, that manufacturers will happily want to shrink their own markets, that consumers will like having less choice, and will like to pay more for that priveledge, maybe.

 

But weve already seen that isnt the case.

 

This also directly contradicts the people youve voted to agree with like Rees Mogg and the ERG no dealers who take their economic advice from Patrick Minford. Their whole argument was prices would come down when we dropped tariffs as we would be open to the whole world, and that the price to pay for this was our own farming and manufacturing industries would be destroyed.

 

But theres a perfect illustration.youre all brexiteers yet your viewpoints are a confused muddle of contradictions and youve all ended up on the same side of the argument not getting what you want.

[Guest MattP]

46 minutes ago, bovril said:

I think that's a fair point. Although I don't really agree with Brexiters vision for the UK, I don't see how 'some things are more important than money' is a particularly strange or controversial position. 

Strangely this argument in the EU debate the opposition to it mainly comes from the left.

 

I still can't fathom how one can demand to stay in the EU for fiscal reasons and then also pray for a Labour victory under McDonnell and Corbyn.

[Strokes]

5 minutes ago, bovril said:

Strokes is my favourite Brexiter. 

Yeah! Piss off @MattP

[Guest MattP]

@Sharpe's Fox is my favourite Brexiteer anyway

[bovril]

2 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Yeah! Piss off @MattP

Don't get ahead of yourself, you're up against Dangerous Tiger so it's hardly a great victory. 

[bovril]

1 minute ago, MattP said:

@Sharpe's Fox is my favourite Brexiteer anyway

What ever happened to that nutter?