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[Leicester_Loyal]

Some people are failing to understand what a democracy is, once the leave vote has been implemented, then we can discuss going back in and having another vote. If there was another vote we'd just campaign again and again, it would be pretty pointless.

[Captain...]

12 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Some people are failing to understand what a democracy is, once the leave vote has been implemented, then we can discuss going back in and having another vote. If there was another vote we'd just campaign again and again, it would be pretty pointless.

So we decided to shut the door on Europe, but we’ve realised we’re going to trap our dick in the door. Why do you want to slam the door on your dick before asking if you want to open it again. Risking it locking forever with our mangled manhood trapped.

 

Don't shut the door until our genitals our clear and if we can’t clear them maybe we shouldn’t be shitting the door, or at least take some painkillers first.

[Voll Blau]

Seeing some of those twee placards from yesterday has made me wince.

 

You Leave lads seriously need to chill out about the idea of a second vote, because the poster boys and girls for Remain clearly haven't learned a fvcking thing in the last three years with that carry-on.

[Guest MattP]

5 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Seeing some of those twee placards from yesterday has made me wince.

 

You Leave lads seriously need to chill out about the idea of a second vote, because the poster boys and girls for Remain clearly haven't learned a fvcking thing in the last three years with that carry-on.

Some of the placards are pretty good to be fair, I saw a few on the LES that made me laugh.

 

This though shows some of them have learnt nothing and even more hilariously, she has forgotten the capital G whilst accusing our mob of being thick.

 

[bovril]

6 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Seeing some of those twee placards from yesterday has made me wince.

 

You Leave lads seriously need to chill out about the idea of a second vote, because the poster boys and girls for Remain clearly haven't learned a fvcking thing in the last three years with that carry-on.

True, but I don't why people are still concerned about the character or behavior of the more stereotypical remain / leave types. You'd think with a few weeks to go people would be more worried with the facts of EU membership than laughing at the other side, since we're all going to sink or swim together.  

[fuchsntf]

12 hours ago, TheUltimateWinner said:

Coup underway tonight apparently to oust May with Gove til end of the season 

They can net up,as much as they like....it's just another egg-layer from the same coup....

we need a few foxes,to get among them....our political Icons have turned into emoji figures....

And have been great twisters and jiggers of presenting their imaginary stance,They have proved in the last 2 years....We only have

"Sheep in Wolves clothing".   Their howling was only pathetic bleating,and their paths of blame and scare-tactics,from both sides,

Have just been little boys crying wolf....!!

May is raping the nation,extraordinary how it's a woman after 3 attempts,and being sternly told ,still doesn't understand "No"

Being power-fanatics,is just no excuse,and now they can never be trusted,that they really don't want to hurt,Britannia..the poor Girl!!!

 

[Leicester_Loyal]

34 minutes ago, Captain... said:

So we decided to shut the door on Europe, but we’ve realised we’re going to trap our dick in the door. Why do you want to slam the door on your dick before asking if you want to open it again. Risking it locking forever with our mangled manhood trapped. 

 

Don't shut the door until our genitals our clear and if we can’t clear them maybe we shouldn’t be shitting the door, or at least take some painkillers first.

The whole idea of a peoples vote is just about trying to remain. 'Put it back to the people etc.' We've had the vote, it was a democratic one and leave won by over a million votes. A second referendum would go against the whole idea of democracy, as we'd just keep having votes again and again. If there's one thing MPs know it's this, hence we've not had another vote.

 

If remain won, I would have accpeted the vote and I'd have moved on, I fail to see why a lot of people who voted remain can't do the same. I also didn't campaign when the party I voted for at the 2015 GE failed to gain a majority, because I accepted the result and was aware I was not in the voting majority. This country has turned into a bunch of spoilt brats who will kick scream and moan until they've got their own way.

 

We've heard for months that plenty of old people have snuffed it (yes those words), yet the majority of people on the buses in the videos at the march yesterday appear to be people over the age of 40/50? We've heard for years that leave lied, yet the predicted 800k job losses just for voting leave hasn't come true? Neither has the economic crisis we were promised.

 

Both sides are as bad as each other, both will threaten, say stupid things and twist ideas. Another vote is ridiculous and we will end up in exactly the same place but 9 months further down the line. It's time we all accepted the result and came together now, regardless of how you voted.

[Leicester_Loyal]

11 minutes ago, bovril said:

True, but I don't why people are still concerned about the character or behavior of the more stereotypical remain / leave types. You'd think with a few weeks to go people would be more worried with the facts of EU membership than laughing at the other side, since we're all going to sink or swim together.  

Exactly the last sentence, we are going to sink or swin together, now isn't really the time for all of this.

 

PS. Gove is an absolute snake, replacing May with him will not changing a thing.

[Alf Bentley]

1 hour ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Some people are failing to understand what a democracy is, once the leave vote has been implemented, then we can discuss going back in and having another vote. If there was another vote we'd just campaign again and again, it would be pretty pointless.

 

If we end up with Soft Brexit, in a Customs Union and/or Single Market, I hope that Hard Brexit and No Deal types take this approach and accept it as democracy...... 

 

Although I voted Remain, I don't support a second referendum except in extreme circumstances: e.g. if we're heading for No Deal, which very few wanted or expected, or if there's a dramatic shift in public opinion.

 

Given the vagueness of the referendum question (Leave/Remain with Leave undefined), there's a case that we should have legislated for a confirmatory second referendum once the terms were known - but we didn't, and there's no sign of a massive shift in public opinion. I cannot imagine the Hard Brexit / No Deal supporters willingly accepting a Soft Brexit deal, though, despite that being just as democratic as any other form of Brexit.

[bovril]

2 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

If we end up with Soft Brexit, in a Customs Union and/or Single Market, I hope that Hard Brexit and No Deal types take this approach and accept it as democracy...... 

 

Although I voted Remain, I don't support a second referendum except in extreme circumstances: e.g. if we're heading for No Deal, which very few wanted or expected, or if there's a dramatic shift in public opinion.

 

Given the vagueness of the referendum question (Leave/Remain with Leave undefined), there's a case that we should have legislated for a confirmatory second referendum once the terms were known - but we didn't, and there's no sign of a massive shift in public opinion. I cannot imagine the Hard Brexit / No Deal supporters willingly accepting a Soft Brexit deal, though, despite that being just as democratic as any other form of Brexit.

I think soft brexit is probably the best thing for Brexiters, because if we end up with Hard Brexit people will be begging to rejoin the EU in a few years. They've played their hand spectacularly badly and their extremism has destroyed a lot of euroscepticism in this country, which is a shame. 

[Alf Bentley]

1 hour ago, Voll Blau said:

Seeing some of those twee placards from yesterday has made me wince.

 

You Leave lads seriously need to chill out about the idea of a second vote, because the poster boys and girls for Remain clearly haven't learned a fvcking thing in the last three years with that carry-on.

 

I had a similar reaction when I saw the videos of People's Vote campaigners singing on coaches - though some of the songs were quite good.

 

I get the distinct impression that most Remain voters rarely meet any Leave voters and vice-versa, so that there's a complete lack of mutual understanding. We live in a very socially divided nation, unfortunately.

It would do both sides good if they actually knew or met people who think the other way.....and on other issues, not Brexit. That's why forums like this are good, allowing people from different backgrounds and with different views to debate them.

 

I find some of the views expressed by my fellow Remainers (outside FT) naive and cringeworthy - and imagine that some Leave voters feel similarly at some of their crew.

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

I had a similar reaction when I saw the videos of People's Vote campaigners singing on coaches - though some of the songs were quite good.

 

I get the distinct impression that most Remain voters rarely meet any Leave voters and vice-versa, so that there's a complete lack of mutual understanding. We live in a very socially divided nation, unfortunately.

It would do both sides good if they actually knew or met people who think the other way.....and on other issues, not Brexit. That's why forums like this are good, allowing people from different backgrounds and with different views to debate them.

 

I find some of the views expressed by my fellow Remainers (outside FT) naive and cringeworthy - and imagine that some Leave voters feel similarly at some of their crew.

Yeah, this is the nub and crux of the matter...not only in the UK, either.

[Alf Bentley]

 

A little Brexit fact that is never mentioned and should be.....

 

More people voted Remain in the 2016 Referendum than have ever voted for any winning party at a UK election.

 

We hear a lot about the 17.4m who voted Leave, and rightly so. But we rarely hear about the 16.1m who voted Remain.

 

The message that I hear from uncompromising Hard Brexit / No Deal types is effectively: "We won. We can ignore you. We can dictate terms and do whatever we like. We can crush you".

 

There needs to be humility and compromise on BOTH sides....not just the narrow winners using an ultra-vague mandate to impose whatever they want.

 

 

[Leicester_Loyal]

34 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

If we end up with Soft Brexit, in a Customs Union and/or Single Market, I hope that Hard Brexit and No Deal types take this approach and accept it as democracy......  

 

Although I voted Remain, I don't support a second referendum except in extreme circumstances: e.g. if we're heading for No Deal, which very few wanted or expected, or if there's a dramatic shift in public opinion.

 

Given the vagueness of the referendum question (Leave/Remain with Leave undefined), there's a case that we should have legislated for a confirmatory second referendum once the terms were known - but we didn't, and there's no sign of a massive shift in public opinion. I cannot imagine the Hard Brexit / No Deal supporters willingly accepting a Soft Brexit deal, though, despite that being just as democratic as any other form of Brexit. 

If we had a vote on soft/hard brexit I wouldn't mind, I just don't think having Remain as an option is right after already having a vote on Remain/Leave.

 

This deal is definitely worse than remaining though, make no mistake about it!

[WigstonWanderer]

13 hours ago, The Guvnor said:

What I was suggesting is there will not be a clean break option on the ballot paper

Even the head bangers are a bit nervous of this one

[Jimothy]

39 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

If we had a vote on soft/hard brexit I wouldn't mind, I just don't think having Remain as an option is right after already having a vote on Remain/Leave.

 

This deal is definitely worse than remaining though, make no mistake about it!

There is no deal better than remaining!

 

What needs to be done is obvious. We pull the plug on the ridiculous shower of shite, revoke article 50 and don't leave on Friday. Then parliament get their act together do their jobs, formulate a plan, cross party, and get that agreed in the HOC. Then they put that solid set in stone plan, with no lies or fantasies against remain. Everyone is clear on what's happening, there can be no confusion, no false promises from either side, no vagueness. "Project fear" won't be an issue from, because leave have a clear path.

 

Might sound like a massive ball ache, but this has been handled so badly we just need to press reset. Might even give us chance to sort our own shit out before leaving the EU, because aside from Brexit, this government, well parliament actually, is a mess.

[Leicester_Loyal]

8 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

There is no deal better than remaining!

 

What needs to be done is obvious. We pull the plug on the ridiculous shower of shite, revoke article 50 and don't leave on Friday. Then parliament get their act together do their jobs, formulate a plan, cross party, and get that agreed in the HOC. Then they put that solid set in stone plan, with no lies or fantasies against remain. Everyone is clear on what's happening, there can be no confusion, no false promises from either side, no vagueness. "Project fear" won't be an issue from, because leave have a clear path.

 

Might sound like a massive ball ache, but this has been handled so badly we just need to press reset. Might even give us chance to sort our own shit out before leaving the EU, because aside from Brexit, this government, well parliament actually, is a mess.

There is no chance we can pull the plug and stay in, we've had a democratic vote. This is what I'm talking about, you don't believe there has been lies or fantasies from the Remain camp? How can people be so blind, it amazes me.

[Jimothy]

5 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

There is no chance we can pull the plug and stay in, we've had a democratic vote. This is what I'm talking about, you don't believe there has been lies or fantasies from the Remain camp? How can people be so blind, it amazes me.

You think we should carry on with this as it is then? Plough on, and force through whatever shit we end up with? What I said is what we should have done in the first place, and it's not too late to do it now. I don't care about remain lies, remain didn't win, those lies aren't affecting us now, leaves lies are, and something needs to save us.

[Matt]

I can't believe so many lies, fantasies, fabrications of the truth are allowed to be told by these bloody politicians from all sides.

 

Surely there should be some kind of regulation - Is there already? (There must be, surely?) If there already is it doesn't seem very strict or well regulated in itself.

 

I used to be bothered about politics, have an opinion, be bothered to argue my beliefs but being continually shit on, told lies, hearing lots of talk but seeing nothing come of it I gave up.

 

It amazes me that people are still so shocked about it all.

[Leicester_Loyal]

3 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

You think we should carry on with this as it is then? Plough on, and force through whatever shit we end up with? What I said is what we should have done in the first place, and it's not too late to do it now. I don't care about remain lies, remain didn't win, those lies aren't affecting us now, leaves lies are, and something needs to save us.

So basically the 'side' you are on lost and now you want the other 'side' to surrender? Were we pre warned about the EU army?

 

'Something needs to save us' Jesus christ, if we left with no deal we'd be fine. It amazes me how these countries survive without the EU, as they are the be all and end all apparently.

[Leicester_Loyal]

4 minutes ago, Matt said:

I can't believe so many lies, fantasies, fabrications of the truth are allowed to be told by these bloody politicians from all sides.

 

Surely there should be some kind of regulation - Is there already? (There must be, surely?) If there already is it doesn't seem very strict or well regulated in itself.

 

I used to be bothered about politics, have an opinion, be bothered to argue my beliefs but being continually shit on, told lies, hearing lots of talk but seeing nothing come of it I gave up.

 

It amazes me that people are still so shocked about it all.

Spot on. I accept both sides lied, and will continue to do so. Unfortunately others only care about lies on the opposite side.

[Heathrow fox]

1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

I had a similar reaction when I saw the videos of People's Vote campaigners singing on coaches - though some of the songs were quite good.

 

I get the distinct impression that most Remain voters rarely meet any Leave voters and vice-versa, so that there's a complete lack of mutual understanding. We live in a very socially divided nation, unfortunately.

It would do both sides good if they actually knew or met people who think the other way.....and on other issues, not Brexit. That's why forums like this are good, allowing people from different backgrounds and with different views to debate them.

 

I find some of the views expressed by my fellow Remainers (outside FT) naive and cringeworthy - and imagine that some Leave voters feel similarly at some of their crew.

Most people vote on their economic circumstances and that’s what the remain side totally forget.I get the impression that a lot of the remainers on this forum are fairly well paid office based and haven’t had to live with the direct consequences of freedom of movement.

 

Hardly any thought or compassion has been given by the remain side on this issue.Instead they scream racist little englander,forgetting it’s actually a huge influx of white often well educated young men and woman.With a good proportion of the people suffering the consequences of this influx being from the ethnic minority’s.

 

As for the panic regarding the possible economic meltdown.

Well sorry but millions of people are worried about how to get through this week.Not what might happen next year.Trade deals really aren’t at the top of a lot of people’s lists.Neither is the potential hassle they might encounter getting a visa to go on their bloody gap year ?

 

Im in the construction industry myself and can’t really complain to much.Although things can happen.Recessions can hit you in or out the EU.You can earn a decent living though (brickie)However I should be creaming it now .There are skill shortages in certain areas.Instead of importing labour there should be uni graduates joining the trades from this country because of the excellent potential earnings.

 

Finally didn’t anyone consider the fact that some of the over 70s might have voted remain,to avoid potential downturns in their pensions.Again people vote with tend to vote with their wallets.

[Jimothy]

17 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Spot on. I accept both sides lied, and will continue to do so. Unfortunately others only care about lies on the opposite side.

I only care about the winning lies. If remain lied, what's the effect of them now? Nothing. They aren't hurting is, they haven't got us to this crisis, so they are irrelevant.

 

18 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

So basically the 'side' you are on lost and now you want the other 'side' to surrender? Were we pre warned about the EU army?

 

'Something needs to save us' Jesus christ, if we left with no deal we'd be fine. It amazes me how these countries survive without the EU, as they are the be all and end all apparently.

I didn't say I wanted surrender. I want a ****ing plan, I want something concrete, that people can make an informed decision on. Its what should have happened from the start. There are no winners at the minutes, there is no plan, theres nothing, just chaos and confusion. In any other situation you'd rip it up and start again. 

 

And you speak of democracy, wasn't it David Davis who said "If a democracy can't change its mind, democracy ceases to exist." As @Captain... said earlier in this thread, this is final, so we need to be sure. So if we can go back with a proper plan and see what people think without the bullshit, I think everyone would be more comfortable moving forward. This isn't a general election, we can't vote it away of we don't like it.

[Jimothy]

@Leicester_Loyal just a thought. You're aiming at me the accusation that I only care about the leave lies because remain lost, well actually the opposite can be said of you, because you clearly don't care about any lies because leave won. If you'd lost you'd be complaining about remain lies just like I'm complaining about leave.

[Guest MattP]

1 hour ago, Facecloth said:

There is no deal better than remaining!

 

What needs to be done is obvious. We pull the plug on the ridiculous shower of shite, revoke article 50 and don't leave on Friday. Then parliament get their act together do their jobs, formulate a plan, cross party, and get that agreed in the HOC. Then they put that solid set in stone plan, with no lies or fantasies against remain. Everyone is clear on what's happening, there can be no confusion, no false promises from either side, no vagueness. "Project fear" won't be an issue from, because leave have a clear path.

 

Might sound like a massive ball ache, but this has been handled so badly we just need to press reset. Might even give us chance to sort our own shit out before leaving the EU, because aside from Brexit, this government, well parliament actually, is a mess.

What is the plan you advocate here?

 

Revoking doesn't mean you can just reinvoke and decide - if anything this could look stable compared to the situation you could create.

 

I mean revoking could lead to a GE and we end up with Corbyn and his band of nutters, communists and anti-semites actually running the country.