All Eliite Wrestling (AEW)

[Scotch]

12 minutes ago, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Hard to argue there. Glad nobody on here has got Hulk bloody Hogan in the top 5 - trash wrestler and human being!

What you talking about?! Hulk Hogan is the bestest rassler of all the times!! Only Ultimate Warruor is better on the mic!! 😁 🥷

[kingfox]

Omega & The Bucks reputation pretty much comes from their work in NJPW, especially Omega. They have always split opinions, but when the Bucks are concerned, many fans just see them as a pair of spot monkeys. Many fans just don’t see them as story tellers, when in fact they’ve produced numerous good matches like that over the years, their match against Omega & Ibushi in NJPW changed my perception of them entirely, it was a great match in terms of storytelling and really showed a different side to the Bucks.

 

Omega’s best in the world & champion reputation comes from his work in NJPW, his AEW title run has been underwhelming, him being the Impact & AAA Champion doesn’t feel like nothing major either, but there’s a reason why so many class him as one of the best, purely because of his classic matches in NJPW, his matches with Okada always get talked about but I very much preferred his matches with Naito, a masterclass in storytelling & psychology, exactly what Wrestling should be about.

 

AEW have a range of good storytellers and psychology workers; however they tend to showcase the independent style spot monkeys far too often, which brings the quality of the company down. They have a fantastic core of about 20-30 to work with, but they don’t concentrate on that 20-30, they’d rather give air time to the likes of Janela, QT Marshall and such like far too regularly, nobody gives a fvck about those types of guys.

[TAFKA Castroneves]

6 hours ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

I don't mind different styles, but the basic of all wrestling matches is behind able to suspend disbelief, it's hard to do that when there's 12 finishers, no selling no psychology. People like that sure, but it's just not wrestling. 

 

That's the thing though it's too much of a mess, don't get me wrong it certainly appeals to their fanbase but have they really gained much fans since going on prime time on one of the biggest networks? If you're gonna compete you need to pick one, it's just a bit schizophrenic and it needs one booker, one vision. You cater to too many people, you're likely to lose people.

 

My rule is basically I'll watch the PPV (although last thing I watched was blood and guts). And if there's enough there I try and watch the next dynamite but usually get turned off tbh. I'm not coming at this from a WWE is better angle either, I'm a dormant wrestling fan really and even if the fed was much better there's far too much content to actually keep up with. That's the thing though you can't just change it like that, he'd have had so much momentum just coming in as a killing machine they've proper ****ed him and I think he was the best pickup they'd had from the fed so far. (maybe moxley off having a bit of an image beforehand)

Some fair points there mate, I do agree the Bucks could calm down when it comes to the finishes - JR I hoped would help them with that a bit when he came in. I personally still appreciate and enjoy their athleticism and also their storytelling in matches has been very good for me. 

 

I think AEW have really capitalised on WWEs rather silly shift to PPV themed shows like Hell in a Cell, where you get the match but no build worthy of such a stipulation. AEW has payoff matches that make sense depending on feuds which seems rather standard for wrestling generally as a formula - but it’s something WWE got blasé about thus creating the gap for someone to come in. 

 

The discussion about it being a mess for you is interesting because I can understand it, however it’s drawing ratings their end - the highest rated cable show in the States now and WCW also rose to their highest peak against the WWF back in the day having a similar approach - arching back to my comments about them bringing in the Lucha style and even the hardcore style. Variety as long as it’s booked alright is good for me personally - Orange Cassidy would be a great AEW example of this, some people don’t get it or like it, however fact is that if you look at AEWs YouTube contents - all the Orange Cassidy Videos geberally have +1 million, Yes not just a little - an extra million views. Explains why he’s been so highlighted, being in a World Title Match at Double or Nothing as it makes business sense. 

 

Enjoying the discussion though mate as you’ve got some solid points, shows how AEW can still tweek things to bring in someone like yourself full time, like I said before I think I’m like yourself in that I was a lapsed wrestling fan myself - I eventually gave up on WWE because the booking for me took me out of it, I’m also of the belief that when a wrestling product is done well there is nothing else in entertainment quite like it and I’m delighted that AEW seems to grow and have the capacity to change. If I think back to the first incarnation of “All In” before AEW ever existed its amazing how well they’ve progressed and added depth in my book. 

 

I should do my top five as well really 😂 It’s personal preference this rather than my view on who’s the best I will say though.

 

1. Eddie Guerrero

2. CM Punk

3. Kurt Angle

4. Undertaker

5. AJ Styles

 

all the other guys mentioned would defo fill out my top ten though 👍 

[marbles]

IMO, Omega's biggest issue is that he does not have the ability to carry a lesser wrestler to a great match.

If his opponent doesn't already have the ability within him, Omega isn't getting it out.  

 

 

My top 5

1. Ric Flair - the man could carry anyone to a great match.  He spent the 80's making local talent look like a million bucks on a nightly basis

2. Kazuchika Okada - not far behind Flair.  Would be tied if he had the ability that Flair does to talk you into an arena.

3. Kurt Angle - What to say? The man transitioned beautifully, and introduced a style that immediately saw him being called on of the greatest rookies of all time.   

4. Tomohiro Ishii - extremely underrated.  HIs selling ability endeared him so much to the fans, that he was elevated from midcard to Main Event status.  

5. The Rock - cant decide which was more entertaining.  Watching his matches, or his promos.

 

   

[TiffToff88]

On 28/07/2021 at 01:13, marbles said:

IMO, Omega's biggest issue is that he does not have the ability to carry a lesser wrestler to a great match.

If his opponent doesn't already have the ability within him, Omega isn't getting it out.  

 

 

My top 5

1. Ric Flair - the man could carry anyone to a great match.  He spent the 80's making local talent look like a million bucks on a nightly basis

2. Kazuchika Okada - not far behind Flair.  Would be tied if he had the ability that Flair does to talk you into an arena.

3. Kurt Angle - What to say? The man transitioned beautifully, and introduced a style that immediately saw him being called on of the greatest rookies of all time.   

4. Tomohiro Ishii - extremely underrated.  HIs selling ability endeared him so much to the fans, that he was elevated from midcard to Main Event status.  

5. The Rock - cant decide which was more entertaining.  Watching his matches, or his promos.

 

   

Remember the time the Rock and Chris Jericho came out and tore Booker T, Rhyno and Stephanie McMahon to pieces? One of my funniest memories of the Attitude Era

[Dr The Singh]

Good to see ROBO the Punjabi liom male progress.

[The Horse's Mouth]

On 27/07/2021 at 23:30, TAFKA Castroneves said:

Some fair points there mate, I do agree the Bucks could calm down when it comes to the finishes - JR I hoped would help them with that a bit when he came in. I personally still appreciate and enjoy their athleticism and also their storytelling in matches has been very good for me. 

 

I think AEW have really capitalised on WWEs rather silly shift to PPV themed shows like Hell in a Cell, where you get the match but no build worthy of such a stipulation. AEW has payoff matches that make sense depending on feuds which seems rather standard for wrestling generally as a formula - but it’s something WWE got blasé about thus creating the gap for someone to come in. 

 

The discussion about it being a mess for you is interesting because I can understand it, however it’s drawing ratings their end - the highest rated cable show in the States now and WCW also rose to their highest peak against the WWF back in the day having a similar approach - arching back to my comments about them bringing in the Lucha style and even the hardcore style. Variety as long as it’s booked alright is good for me personally - Orange Cassidy would be a great AEW example of this, some people don’t get it or like it, however fact is that if you look at AEWs YouTube contents - all the Orange Cassidy Videos geberally have +1 million, Yes not just a little - an extra million views. Explains why he’s been so highlighted, being in a World Title Match at Double or Nothing as it makes business sense. 

 

Enjoying the discussion though mate as you’ve got some solid points, shows how AEW can still tweek things to bring in someone like yourself full time, like I said before I think I’m like yourself in that I was a lapsed wrestling fan myself - I eventually gave up on WWE because the booking for me took me out of it, I’m also of the belief that when a wrestling product is done well there is nothing else in entertainment quite like it and I’m delighted that AEW seems to grow and have the capacity to change. If I think back to the first incarnation of “All In” before AEW ever existed its amazing how well they’ve progressed and added depth in my book. 

 

I should do my top five as well really 😂 It’s personal preference this rather than my view on who’s the best I will say though.

 

1. Eddie Guerrero

2. CM Punk

3. Kurt Angle

4. Undertaker

5. AJ Styles

 

all the other guys mentioned would defo fill out my top ten though 👍 

Just not going to happen though is it, they've established their niche and they're just gonna keep riding that wave. Can't even be that mad at them,but you'd have expected them to try and appeal to more mainstream fans rather than their own niche they already built. But those matches give me a headache, I will concede though I did like the bucks page and omega match.

 

I mean WCW dipped their toe with hardcore when they were going downhill and tbf WWF stole that off ECW before then. But it was more structured, like peak wcw, you had your good wrestling on the undercard then you're big draws in the main events. There were different styles on show, but they rarely overlapped as much which I think is a better way of doing things. AEW probably have benefitted from only having a limited amount of PPVs a year but on the flip side the booking is very TNA, it's hotshot on dynamite for the rating and I don't think that's necessarily a bad strategy for AEW as k don't think Khan is too arsed with turning a profit it's a bit of vanity project for him.

 

Yeah I agree and like I said I initially did buzz off it a bit, the shit I didn't like I could get past because to begin with I thought Cody was sensational and despite how downhill Jericho has gone his initial run with the belt was fantastic, when Moxley got the strap thats where I dropped off. And tbf the no crowd days as well was a big reason for me as well. I'll always keep abrest and see what I fancy but I can't see myself going full-time with AEW again unless we see an MJF title reign or somet like that. Even with Bryan and Punk rumoured, I love Bryan, liked Punk back in day but I'm not that arsed really. Bryan genuinely worries me with how unsafe some of those workers are 

 

Edited 30 July 2021 by The Horse's Mouth

[Scotch]

24 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Just not going to happen though is it, they've established their niche and they're just gonna keep riding that wave. Can't even be that mad at them,but you'd have expected them to try and appeal to more mainstream fans rather than their own niche they already built. But those matches give me a headache, I will concede though I did like the bucks page and omega match.

 

I mean WCW dipped their toe with hardcore when they were going downhill and tbf WWF stole that off ECW before then. But it was more structured, like peak wcw, you had your good wrestling on the undercard then you're big draws in the main events. There were different styles on show, but they rarely overlapped as much which I think is a better way of doing things. AEW probably have benefitted from only having a limited amount of PPVs a year but on the flip side the booking is very TNA, it's hotshot on dynamite for the rating and I don't think that's necessarily a bad strategy for AEW as k don't think Khan is too arsed with turning a profit it's a bit of vanity project for him.

 

Yeah I agree and like I said I initially did buzz off it a bit, the shit I didn't like I could get past because to begin with I thought Cody was sensational and despite how downhill Jericho has gone his initial run with the belt was fantastic, when Moxley got the strap thats where I dropped off. And tbf the no crowd days as well was a big reason for me as well. I'll always keep abrest and see what I fancy but I can't see myself going full-time with AEW again unless we see an MJF title reign or somet like that. Even with Bryan and Punk rumoured, I love Bryan, liked Punk back in day but I'm not that arsed really. Bryan genuinely worries me with how unsafe some of those workers are 

 

They absolutely need to keep him away from Brian Cage. That guys a walking disaster. 

[TrickyTrev Benjamin]

Top 5 

 

1) dynamite kid

2) Bret hart 

3) Shawn Michaels 

4) cm punk 

5) Chris Jericho 

 

I've gone on purely wrestling ability , obviously as draws they aren’t stone cold/ the rock level. 

[Dr The Singh]

1 hour ago, TrickyTrev Benjamin said:

Top 5 

 

1) dynamite kid

2) Bret hart 

3) Shawn Michaels 

4) cm punk 

5) Chris Jericho 

 

I've gone on purely wrestling ability , obviously as draws they aren’t stone cold/ the rock level. 

Disagree 

 

ROBO the Punjabi Lion is defo top 5, you clowns are taking jokes man.

[Scotch]

Brockhurst Lesnar apparently signed now. Tony Kahn is out of control...

 

*edit* I did notice that my spellchecker changed Brock to Brockhurst but I liked to so I'm leaving it. 

Edited 30 July 2021 by Scotch

[The Horse's Mouth]

19 hours ago, Scotch said:

Brockhurst Lesnar apparently signed now. Tony Kahn is out of control...

 

*edit* I did notice that my spellchecker changed Brock to Brockhurst but I liked to so I'm leaving it. 

there's no chance he'd go there 

[NuneatonFox1]

He’d go wherever the money is, Brock has loyalty to no man or no company, he’s a mercenary. 
 

Bray Wyatt has been released today by WWE. Allegedly as part of Budget cutting (again), but it’s been fairly well known he’s been struggling since Brodie passed. Recent pic of him online, he looks shredded.
 

Bray to take sometime off and come lead the Dark Order?

[Jimmy]

they need to get a deal with Sky, ITV don't do any advertising for them since the Box Office closed, I don't think they are picking up the rampage show either, at least it hasn't been announced

[Jimmy]

1 hour ago, NuneatonFox1 said:

Bray to take sometime off and come lead the Dark Order?

when its time for the Hangman to reunite with the Elite, Dark Order turning on him with Bray as the new leader is so easy it writes itself

[The Horse's Mouth]

2 hours ago, NuneatonFox1 said:

He’d go wherever the money is, Brock has loyalty to no man or no company, he’s a mercenary. 
 

Bray Wyatt has been released today by WWE. Allegedly as part of Budget cutting (again), but it’s been fairly well known he’s been struggling since Brodie passed. Recent pic of him online, he looks shredded.
 

Bray to take sometime off and come lead the Dark Order?

Mate Brock isn't going to AEW, he'd use them to get a better contract with the fed though

[Jimmy]

Vince would never let AEW sign Brock and I don't think he'd be worth the money to AEW.

[The Horse's Mouth]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

Vince would never let AEW sign Brock and I don't think he'd be worth the money to AEW.

He seems very anti what they're about as well, could you imagine them asking him to work with orange cassidy

[Jimmy]

8 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

He seems very anti what they're about as well, could you imagine them asking him to work with orange cassidy

he'd be fine he was a success in NJPW years ago and if he worked with Orange you have him squash Orange for the first match after that you get the Orange that doesn't **** around, or just book him against Omega, Punk, Danielson, Archer, Cody etc.

[NuneatonFox1]

If you paid Brock the money, he would put over whoever you wanted. A motivated Brock is willing to work and bump for anyone. 
 

AEW can and could offer Brock an easier schedule, decent money and the ability to pick up other projects outside of AEW. That’s something WWE won’t allow. 
 

Brock is a massive name, he would move the needle. It would also take away another spike out of WWE’s wheel.

[Jimmy]

5 hours ago, NuneatonFox1 said:

If you paid Brock the money, he would put over whoever you wanted. A motivated Brock is willing to work and bump for anyone. 
 

AEW can and could offer Brock an easier schedule, decent money and the ability to pick up other projects outside of AEW. That’s something WWE won’t allow. 
 

Brock is a massive name, he would move the needle. It would also take away another spike out of WWE’s wheel.

Brock can do what ever he likes even in WWE, as they know he is willing to walk away, Vince would top any offer AEW made for the reasons you mentioned

[Scotch]

16 hours ago, NuneatonFox1 said:

He’d go wherever the money is, Brock has loyalty to no man or no company, he’s a mercenary. 
 

Bray Wyatt has been released today by WWE. Allegedly as part of Budget cutting (again), but it’s been fairly well known he’s been struggling since Brodie passed. Recent pic of him online, he looks shredded.
 

Bray to take sometime off and come lead the Dark Order?

Would LOVE to see Wyatt in AEW. I'm a massive fan of him. He's got that certain something that makes him stand out. 

[NuneatonFox1]

8 hours ago, Scotch said:

Would LOVE to see Wyatt in AEW. I'm a massive fan of him. He's got that certain something that makes him stand out. 

He’s arguably the most creative performer of the past 7 years, would love to see what he could do given the freedom in AEW.

[TAFKA Castroneves]

It’s funny because Vince McMahon pretty much said in the WWE shareholders conference call the other day that their strategy is to kind of put AEW in a place where they sign a lot of their ex wrestlers for money - stretching AEWs wage budget. And also apparently they tried to tap up the New York Post to run an article about the whole Dominos/Pizza Cutter moment from Dynamite this week as a way to slander AEW 😂 didn’t Fox demand Wyatt on Smackdown as well when he was the Fiend?

 

Doesn’t seem particularly clever business 

to upset them by firing him this week 😂  - they were already concerned by WWE just allowing Punk to sign unchallenged to AEW, having been very eager to get him on their Backstage show. I’m starting to think with that and Peacock being so heavily promoted on the Fox Network against their wishes that they will be losing that TV deal for Smackdown when it’s up and will have to go elsewhere. 

 

Its very interesting times in the world of pro Wrestling. 

 

To take it back to AEW though the main question at the moment is All Out is only a month away now and we kinda don’t really know what the cards gonna be yet, anyone got any predictions? I still don’t know if they might double swerve us and put Omega/Page back on but I’m kinda thinking not now.

 

AEW Title:

Kenny Omega (c) vs. Bryan Danielson

 

AEW vs. New Japan

Jon Moxley vs. Tanahashi

 

Malakai Black vs. Hangman Adam Page

 

PAC vs Andrade 

 

Darby Allin vs CM Punk

 

Loser Leaves AEW:

Chris Jericho vs MJF

 

AEW Women’s Title:

Dr Britt Baker (c) vs. Thunder Rosa

 

AEW Tag Team Championship

The Young Bucks (c) vs. Christian & Jungle Boy

 

Anyways I’d reckon it’s gonna look something like this. 

Edited 1 August 2021 by TAFKA Castroneves

[Scotch]

56 minutes ago, TAFKA Castroneves said:

It’s funny because Vince McMahon pretty much said in the WWE shareholders conference call the other day that their strategy is to kind of put AEW in a place where they sign a lot of their ex wrestlers for money - stretching AEWs wage budget. And also apparently they tried to tap up the New York Post to run an article about the whole Dominos/Pizza Cutter moment from Dynamite this week as a way to slander AEW 😂 didn’t Fox demand Wyatt on Smackdown as well when he was the Fiend?

 

Doesn’t seem particularly clever business 

to upset them by firing him this week 😂  - they were already concerned by WWE just allowing Punk to sign unchallenged to AEW, having been very eager to get him on their Backstage show. I’m starting to think with that and Peacock being so heavily promoted on the Fox Network against their wishes that they will be losing that TV deal for Smackdown when it’s up and will have to go elsewhere. 

 

Its very interesting times in the world of pro Wrestling. 

 

To take it back to AEW though the main question at the moment is All Out is only a month away now and we kinda don’t really know what the cards gonna be yet, anyone got any predictions? I still don’t know if they might double swerve us and put Omega/Page back on but I’m kinda thinking not now.

 

AEW Title:

Kenny Omega (c) vs. Bryan Danielson

 

AEW vs. New Japan

Jon Moxley vs. Tanahashi

 

Malakai Black vs. Hangman Adam Page

 

PAC vs Andrade 

 

Darby Allin vs CM Punk

 

Loser Leaves AEW:

Chris Jericho vs MJF

 

AEW Women’s Title:

Dr Britt Baker (c) vs. Thunder Rosa

 

AEW Tag Team Championship

The Young Bucks (c) vs. Christian & Jungle Boy

 

Anyways I’d reckon it’s gonna look something like this. 

That strategy makes sense with guys like Christian, Matt Hardy, Big Show, Mark Henry etc but not with guys like Punk, Bryan, Wyatt, Lesnar, Black and Strowman... 

 

How many NEW viewers will those kind of acquisitions bring? Not to mention the sponsorship and TV deals that comes with that. 

 

All they have to do is book it right and KEEP those viewers... Which is a big ask given their track record.