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Guest MattP

FT General Election Poll 2019

FT General Election 2019  

501 members have voted

  1. 1. Which party will be getting your vote?

    • Conservative
      155
    • Labour
      188
    • Liberal Democrats
      93
    • Brexit Party
      17
    • Green Party
      26
    • Other
      22


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13 hours ago, MattP said:

I did, I worked on a personal project I have (whilst doing those posts), spent time with my family (anyone reading this seriously do it, you miss it so much when they are gone as I am doing now having lost two so close to me this year), then I had a few drinks with friends and now I'm ready for bed. 

 

If you are interested tomorrow I'm up early for breakfast watching the rugby, going to see friends, then watching soccer saturday, then out for dinner with the wife.

 

It beats signing up for a website on numerous occasions under different personas doesn't it because you are scared to tell people who you are. Why do you do this? 

I don't Matty. You've just got an irrational belief that I'm somebody I've never heard of. Edgy youth think this I have no idea and I'm finding it readout reader bizarre tbh.  But then you think Trump is some sort of economic genius so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

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2 hours ago, MattP said:

Any truth in this and we are surely heading for a Tory majority.

 

 

 The GE campaign hasn't even begun yet!

I suspect we'll see seats changing hands in different directions all over the place.  I also suspect that Labour will grow in the polls once they start talking policy and theLib Dems will drop off. Boris will also be exposed when held up to scrutiny which he's been really bad at handling so far.

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TBH the past couple of years have pretty much proven just how much of a nightmare direct democracy can be on an emotive issue.

 

Can't quite understand someone looking at the aftermath of the Brexit referendum and thinking, "well, putting this decision to a direct vote was a great idea considering how it turned out, let's do it more often!"

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12 minutes ago, HappyHamza said:

I don't Matty. You've just got an irrational belief that I'm somebody I've never heard of. Edgy youth think this I have no idea and I'm finding it readout reader bizarre tbh.  But then you think Trump is some sort of economic genius so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

I've never said Trump is an economic genius - on the contrary I've said his economic policy is a huge gamble and if he doesn't repatriate enough overseas tax he'll have ran up a dreadful level of debt for no reason.

 

I'm blocking you now anyway as just coming back to the forum is so many different guises with different political opinions is just so weird. 

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12 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

TBH the past couple of years have pretty much proven just how much of a nightmare direct democracy can be on an emotive issue.

 

Can't quite understand someone looking at the aftermath of the Brexit referendum and thinking, "well, putting this decision to a direct vote was a great idea considering how it turned out, let's do it more often!"

It's only a problem when the people don't vote the way the government wants, the love referenda when it goes the way they want.

 

Parliament should represent the population, it certainly didn't on the issue of Europe and probably doesn't on many others; I'm up finding out.

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25 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Why 65%? Why not 66%? Or 76%?

 

Well I’m guessing you are spoiling for an argument but the answer is that most referendums run in other countries require a 60 percent plus majority to be carried - probably so they don’t end up in such a mess as 48-52 has made here.

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4 minutes ago, MattP said:

It's only a problem when the people don't vote the way the government wants, the love referenda when it goes the way they want.

 

Parliament should represent the population, it certainly didn't on the issue of Europe and probably doesn't on many others; I'm up finding out.

I think any close referendum has the potential to be as problematic as the Brexit one in todays climate - will of the government or no.

 

The entire reason the UK has a representative democracy is that there doesn't have to be referenda on all of these issues. That MP's don't "represent the population" is on the people that voted for them in the first place - who else is responsible for them being in Parliament at all?

 

If there is a disconnect between the number of people supporting a course of action overall and the number of MP's supporting it, that could also be to do with the FPTP system too.

 

FWIW I think that direct democracy is in theory the ideal form of governance in terms of being sure you're giving everyone a say on issues that matter and that's a good thing...but I'm entirely unsure how well it would work in practice for long-term decision planning given mankinds penchant for short-term self-interest in a lot of cases.

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1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

I think any close referendum has the potential to be as problematic as the Brexit one in todays climate - will of the government or no.

 

The entire reason the UK has a representative democracy is that there doesn't have to be referenda on all of these issues. That MP's don't "represent the population" is on the people that voted for them in the first place - who else is responsible for them being in Parliament at all?

By the end of the last parliament over 30% of Liberal Democrats weren't even elected under the banner of that party. 

 

Many MP's simply lied to get elected, that was the real scandal.

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1 minute ago, MattP said:

By the end of the last parliament over 30% of Liberal Democrats weren't even elected under the banner of that party. 

 

Many MP's simply lied to get elected, that was the real scandal.

I agree - but again, that's a problem with the individual as opposed to the system itself.

 

Like I said, more direct democracy would certainly be a good thing in theory, but in practice I fear it could destroy much more than it creates purely on account of mob psychology.

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25 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

Well I’m guessing you are spoiling for an argument but the answer is that most referendums run in other countries require a 60 percent plus majority to be carried - probably so they don’t end up in such a mess as 48-52 has made here.

No I just don't understand where the 65% came from. Random number pulled from thin air. It's great when it's a close result, what happens when 64.9% gets ignored because it doesn't hit your number? I don't think I'm naive enough to believe that wouldn't make a mess tbh. 

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28 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

Well I’m guessing you are spoiling for an argument but the answer is that most referendums run in other countries require a 60 percent plus majority to be carried.

Do they?

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I had a dream about Boris Johnson last night.

 

I was crossing a road in a rundown area of a city, when a load of cops ran, shouting, from every direction towards a parked car.

A scruffy, shifty-looking bloke with dark hair and a wild moustache opened the car door and tried to scarper, but the cops jumped on him and pinned him to the tarmac.

 

Suddenly, this familiar blond figure materialised on the pavement opposite, wearing a penguin suit and dickie bow. He looked more serious than usual and had lost some weight.

He tried to sidle off but a cop spotted him and shouted "We know what you've been doing!" Boris was looking from side to side, keen to avoid being spotted by the press.

Crab-like, he crept sideways into one of those plastic shops attached to a petrol station, but the cops followed and pushed him slowly to the floor, penguin suit and all.....and the dream ended.

 

I need to get a life, don't I? lol

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1 hour ago, MattP said:

I've never said Trump is an economic genius - on the contrary I've said his economic policy is a huge gamble and if he doesn't repatriate enough overseas tax he'll have ran up a dreadful level of debt for no reason.

 

I'm blocking you now anyway as just coming back to the forum is so many different guises with different political opinions is just so weird. 

This is like when 5 year olds keep repeating the same thing over and over again despite it being untrue. 

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37 minutes ago, MattP said:

Do they?

Well yes and no - in all honesty I read about this over a year ago - when there’s been over 70 odd percent in binding/non binding referendums it’s not really been a problem but when countries have close votes they have revisited the terms. Whilst most countries require a minimum turn out of either voting population or percentage of population that previously voted they have also considered not just a decision in terms of a 50% plus majority but have evened it out by counting those who do not vote who have previous voting records as ‘a vote against’ the motion.

 

This basically requires/creates parameters for a clearer majority of pro motion votes for a proposal to pass.

 

Heres an example from the LSE reporting on the Quebec referendum issue which was circa 49-51 percent...

 

 

oops forgot link: https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/08/20/the-risks-of-simple-majority-referendums-learning-from-quebec/

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Nick
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image.png.79c7dd1e3f67e8c9ab2e9dd65ece8203.png

 

Not really sure where I get the Greens from considering I didn't want to ban polluting materials, didn't want to increase spending on public transportation and wanted to renew Trident. Wouldn't vote for them anyway and don't think I've ever lived anywhere weird enough to have a Green Party candidate anyway.

Edited by LiberalFox
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6 minutes ago, SecretPro said:

Genuinely can't fathom why:

 

1. Anybody would vote Tory after the last decade or horror. 

2. Anybody still wants Brexit, especially a 'hard brexit'.

3. Why anybody would have a single ounce of respect for Donald Trump or Boris Johnson. 

 

It seems I'm in the minority, which is a scary thought. 

1. I doubt those people see it as "horror" - horror it's what's happening in Syria or Yemen, not here. A lot of things aren't great, but a lot are, we are still a fantastic economy,  huge employment and are predicted to grow faster than countries like France.

 

2. Why would anybody have changed their minds? I've seen no reason to at all. If anything after the appointment of Ursula VDL I'm even more confident in my vote - I'm not up for a no deal Brexit though.

 

3. No idea what Trump has to do with it but do you need to respect the leader of a party to vote for them? I'd hazard a guess most Labour voters don't have much respect for Corbyn either.

 

I get you don't like it, but if you really "can't fathom" it you need to get out of the echo chamber yout live in.

 

I don't like people voting Lib Dem or Labour, but if you want to stop Brexit or feel like you have no stake in the capitalist society you live in I totally understand why they do.

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1 hour ago, ScouseFox said:

"vote for the tories, we'll make sure it's slightly better to live here than in syria" 

 

good slogan tbf 

It's what Assad uses in Damascus. 

 

"Vote for the Baa'th, civil war but we'll make sure it's slightly better to live here than Liverpool"

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