Starmer Next Labour Leader

[Bilo]

4 hours ago, MattP said:

Watched PMQ's - hilarious when Johnson turned up, I think his PR team are having some fun leaking bullshit to the press now.

 

Thought Boris did edge it and if he can throw Starmer off script he's in business, he certainly doesn't seem to have much ability in terms thinking on his feet as that weird stammering reply showed when the PM answered his question before he had asked it.

 

Apologies to @Voll Blau who got it spot on - they clearly had taken this more seriously, I didn't think they would care.

I haven't seen a great deal of evidence of him struggling to think on his feet - he eviscerated Raab by doing just that in his first outing and the same again with Johnson in his first two spars.

 

I get the impression that Starmer is playing the long game here.

 

Johnson has a bit of a habit of avoiding questions by making a pledge based upon them that he then has to stick to - such as June 1st for tracking and tracing - and, if he fails to meet it as seems likely, Starmer takes him to task in PMQs and slowly builds a narrative of a PM who can't be trusted and doesn't keep his promises. 

 

There was a great article in the New Statesman about how a QC of his calibre never picks a fight unless he knows he's already won - a bit Sun Tzu, but effective.

 

What Starmer has now done is get Johnson to verbally commit not once, but twice, to having a world-beating tracking and tracing programme in place for a week on Monday. Fail, and Starmer is on the front foot on June 3rd straight away. It's pretty clear from all NHS sources that it's not going to be in place, and it was equally clear from Matt Hancock's horrified expression. 

[Guest MattP]

33 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

I just don't think your original assumptions on the labour leader not warranting a cleaner are fair, he can do what he likes. He will be 10 times busier than the average person and so be it if he has a cleaner. I think your assumptions over laziness are a bit daft. There are jobs right from cleaners and fruit pickers up to CEO's of FTSE 100 companies and thats just life and the way the world goes round, I don't think he goes against the principals of his party by having a cleaner, Jesus wept. If it makes you feel superior and not as ''lazy'' not having one, then congrats 

I never mentioned a single thing (and neither did anybody else) about the Labour leader and a cleaner - it was in reference to Owen Jones

 

Of course it's fully understandable for high ranking MoP to have a cleaner.

[Mike Oxlong]

Boris has had a few scrubbers over the years 

[Guest MattP]

21 minutes ago, Bilo said:

I haven't seen a great deal of evidence of him struggling to think on his feet - he eviscerated Raab by doing just that in his first outing and the same again with Johnson in his first two spars.

 

I get the impression that Starmer is playing the long game here.

 

Johnson has a bit of a habit of avoiding questions by making a pledge based upon them that he then has to stick to - such as June 1st for tracking and tracing - and, if he fails to meet it as seems likely, Starmer takes him to task in PMQs and slowly builds a narrative of a PM who can't be trusted and doesn't keep his promises. 

 

There was a great article in the New Statesman about how a QC of his calibre never picks a fight unless he knows he's already won - a bit Sun Tzu, but effective.

 

What Starmer has now done is get Johnson to verbally commit not once, but twice, to having a world-beating tracking and tracing programme in place for a week on Monday. Fail, and Starmer is on the front foot on June 3rd straight away. It's pretty clear from all NHS sources that it's not going to be in place, and it was equally clear from Matt Hancock's horrified expression. 

Yesterday was a pretty good example. Boris gave an answer that took away the script Starmer had and he stumbled through the next few minutes, speaking like an Englishman trying to ask a question to a Spanish waiter. 

 

All this Sun Tzu talk might be true, he might be brilliant, but given his Brexit policy over the past 18 months was a major reason for the biggest defeat his party has suffered over since 1935 it might be wise to hold off on him being a strategic genius who never picks a fight he doesn't win just yet.

 

Some of the Starmer fans are already starting to mirror the Corbynistas in a weird devotion based on very little thus far.

[StanSP]

Just getting this straight. 

 

Is it okay for Boris to waffle on, faff about and stumble through an answer with incorrect info, speak in cliche and rhetoric as standard with very little substance on occasion? Yes 

 

Is it okay for Starmer to stumble for a few minutes? Nope, not allowed under any circumstance and this means anyone getting excited or positive about him must reign it in and give their own heads a wobble. 

[Bilo]

10 minutes ago, MattP said:

Yesterday was a pretty good example. Boris gave an answer that took away the script Starmer had and he stumbled through the next few minutes, speaking like an Englishman trying to ask a question to a Spanish waiter. 

 

All this Sun Tzu talk might be true, he might be brilliant, but given his Brexit policy over the past 18 months was a major reason for the biggest defeat his party has suffered over since 1935 it might be wise to hold off on him being a strategic genius who never picks a fight he doesn't win just yet.

 

Some of the Starmer fans are already starting to mirror the Corbynistas in a weird devotion based on very little thus far.

I must admit that I've seen the last part in action- some claiming he destroyed Johnson again yesterday, when he clearly didn't. A score draw at best. I was told to **** off and join the Tories for the very first time, so it was nice to relive 2015. 😂😂

 

In fairness to him though, it wasn't so much his personal Brexit policy as it was the members'. The CLPs proposed it and it was approved by conference, so to present it as purely Starmer's baby probably overestimates the level of influence someone outside of Corbyn's inner circle had over policy after the "success" of 2017 emboldened the Corbynistas to take complete control of the party.

[Bilo]

2 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Just getting this straight. 

 

Is it okay for Boris to waffle on, faff about and stumble through an answer with incorrect info, speak in cliche and rhetoric as standard with very little substance on occasion? Yes 

 

Is it okay for Starmer to stumble for a few minutes? Nope, not allowed under any circumstance and this means anyone getting excited or positive about him must reign it in and give their own heads a wobble. 

A lot of truth in this too.

 

I get the impression that Johnson benefited from the low expectations generated by the first two outings against Starmer where he was universally agreed to have been utterly shredded. This meant that anything other than complete humiliation was going to be perceived as a W.

 

If yesterday is going to be as good as it gets for Johnson between now and 2024, he's in very serious trouble. 

[StanSP]

1 minute ago, Bilo said:

A lot of truth in this too.

 

I get the impression that Johnson benefited from the low expectations generated by the first two outings against Starmer where he was universally agreed to have been utterly shredded. This meant that anything other than complete humiliation was going to be perceived as a W.

 

If yesterday is going to be as good as it gets for Johnson between now and 2024, he's in very serious trouble. 

The last bit especially. It's as if he (and Tories) will now take anything very minor as a 'win' or a plus point. The bar is low and they must seem very desperate. Only have to look at the story about the donkey sanctuary as testament to that. 

 

Clutching at straws comes to mind. 

[Bilo]

4 minutes ago, StanSP said:

The last bit especially. It's as if he (and Tories) will now take anything very minor as a 'win' or a plus point. The bar is low and they must seem very desperate. Only have to look at the story about the donkey sanctuary as testament to that. 

 

Clutching at straws comes to mind. 

The donkey sanctuary is such an own goal that one wonders whether it was deliberate.

Certainly the press as a whole seem less tolerant of Johnson's foibles.

[Bilo]

This is what effective opposition can do. 

 

Big coup considering Johnson's stance yesterday. 

 

Edited 21 May 2020 by Bilo

[David Guiza]

59 minutes ago, MattP said:

Yesterday was a pretty good example. Boris gave an answer that took away the script Starmer had and he stumbled through the next few minutes, speaking like an Englishman trying to ask a question to a Spanish waiter. 

 

All this Sun Tzu talk might be true, he might be brilliant, but given his Brexit policy over the past 18 months was a major reason for the biggest defeat his party has suffered over since 1935 it might be wise to hold off on him being a strategic genius who never picks a fight he doesn't win just yet.

 

Some of the Starmer fans are already starting to mirror the Corbynistas in a weird devotion based on very little thus far.

That's just another byproduct of the tribalism, you see across the board. For every Starmer tweet I could find a myriad of fanboys/fangirls for Johnson, Patel, JRM etc. Some on social media seem to have adapted it as a personality trait, the likes of that Hewertson woman are effectively no different to the YouTube stars, only she bleats about Pritti Patel rather than some makeup product. 

 

I'm just delighted to see a strong leader of the opposition who, thus far in incredibly difficult circumstances, has made great headway in holding the government to account. It's also quite nice that somebody I voted for won an election for the first time in a decade of being 18+ . 

[Voll Blau]

3 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

I don't see why NHS workers shouldn't pay it if everyone other migrant does.  Honestly this NHS workers are sundenly more special than anyone else thing is getting a bit silly.  They chose their careers, they will know this cost when they come to the UK - if they don't come we will have to pay more to attract them etc., so even if you did want to ensure they weren't out of pocket the money might be better off spent paying them a little more than by devising some kind of expensive to administer excemptions system.

 

Plenty of other countries are a lot tougher on imiigrants than we are.

 

Looks like HM Government now respectfully disagree. 

[Bilo]

[Dahnsouff]

Not yet @Bilo he has not crossed the finishing line, ask this chap below where it is....

 

 

[Mike Oxlong]

31 minutes ago, David Guiza said:

That's just another byproduct of the tribalism, you see across the board. For every Starmer tweet I could find a myriad of fanboys/fangirls for Johnson, Patel, JRM etc. Some on social media seem to have adapted it as a personality trait, the likes of that Hewertson woman are effectively no different to the YouTube stars, only she bleats about Pritti Patel rather than some makeup product. 

 

I'm just delighted to see a strong leader of the opposition who, thus far in incredibly difficult circumstances, has made great headway in holding the government to account. It's also quite nice that somebody I voted for won an election for the first time in a decade of being 18+ . 

The bizarre thing is that we don’t have anyone even remotely resembling that on this forum 

[Bilo]

5 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Not yet @Bilo he has not crossed the finishing line, ask this chap below where it is....

 

 

If you think he'll still be around in 2024, you might be disappointed...

[Dahnsouff]

10 minutes ago, Bilo said:

If you think he'll still be around in 2024, you might be disappointed...

I didn’t vote Tory, but I am all for balance 

[LiberalFox]

6 hours ago, SecretPro said:

True but I spose if you are a cleaner then you need *somebody* to employ you - otherwise you are jobless and skint. That's 'Low Skilled' jobs for you. If everybody took the attitude that domestic cleaners are unnecessary then there would be a lot of people out of a job.

 

No way I'd ever have somebody clean my house though. The thought of somebody in my personal space going through my things creeps me out way too much.

Or you could just have something like a UBI instead and people could live their lives with dignity. Ultimately I think the issue I have is that Jones claims to be left wing and to care about the working class but in the end the only thing separating him from the Conservative saying to carry on employing their cleaner to provide someone with an income and "dignity" is that he's showing greater compassion for the cleaner he employs by not forcing them to risk the virus. In other words he's a compassionate Conservative. 

 

I don't judge people, so I'm not going to over read into him using a cleaner but I do find it odd like MattP (of all people) says. To me doing things like cleaning and other "personal admin" is not something I'd ever consider hiring a poor person to do either, I mean it's nice to have a hotel room cleaned but that's a paid for luxury.

 

Mind you I've just realised I've wasted a bunch of time on why I don't like Owen Jones' brand of politics and I'm a Lib Dem anyway so it's not too surprising. I just dislike people who appropriate other peoples causes, if I'm going to champion the rights of various marginalised minorities (which is correct and Liberal) I'm going to at least try my best to promote their views and not mine and if they challenge me I'm going to listen to them not call them brainwashed or dismiss their identity. 

 

It's not just Jones of course and it's not just Labour.

[Lionator]

Keir Starmer Starmer

whatever will be will be

a labour majority 

Keir Starmer Starmer 

[Bilo]

3 hours ago, Lionator said:

Keir Starmer Starmer

whatever will be will be

a labour majority 

Keir Starmer Starmer 

Starmer's on fire

Boris Johnson's terrified....

[Leicester_Loyal]

5 hours ago, David Guiza said:

That's just another byproduct of the tribalism, you see across the board. For every Starmer tweet I could find a myriad of fanboys/fangirls for Johnson, Patel, JRM etc. Some on social media seem to have adapted it as a personality trait, the likes of that Hewertson woman are effectively no different to the YouTube stars, only she bleats about Pritti Patel rather than some makeup product. 

 

Yeah, but she's pretty tidy

[Bilo]

14 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Yeah, but she's pretty tidy

That voice and seemingly a head full of rocks though...

[Leicester_Loyal]

9 minutes ago, Bilo said:

That voice and seemingly a head full of rocks though...

I'm not a fussy man Bilo.

[Jon the Hat]

15 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

 

Looks like HM Government now respectfully disagree. 

Realpolitik at it's best!  Not sure if it is a good thing becuase public pressure can result in quick policy changes, or a bad thing becuase yet more NHS exceptionalism.  At this rate we will be building statues to anyone who ever worked in the NHS, which would mean 3 of my immediate family.  Not sure they would expect or want that.

[Jon the Hat]

14 hours ago, Bilo said:

If you think he'll still be around in 2024, you might be disappointed...

Or you might not,  Imo this is going to die down pretty quickly;  The question will be how well the economy bounces back, and a Boris / Sunak double act might do very well at that bit.  Brexit deal (maybe not this year) and FTA with the US and Canada among others, and his stock could be pretty high by the next election.  Whether he wants to fight it might be a different question.  I think he probably would.