Mike Oxlong Posted 19 May 2020 Share Posted 19 May 2020 4 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said: Correct. Hallelujah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 19 May 2020 Share Posted 19 May 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said: Fair enough re the quote - I can only speak for myself Although I’ve voted Tory more than once in the past I do have concerns about this government and their honesty and it would be nice to have a credible alternative which is something that has been lacking for years That brings me back to my original point about welcoming Starmer’s decent early start and my point about it appearing to me that there are those who don’t want an effective opposition I wasn't trying to imply you were and I'm sorry if you thought I was. I have to say though it's not an uncommon opinion on this board. You have every right to vote whichever way you choose, when I argue these things I'm not trying to convert anyone, just put across a POV. Edited 19 May 2020 by Webbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 19 May 2020 Share Posted 19 May 2020 Well at least we've got a proper choice again of two Conservatives when the next election comes around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 19 May 2020 Share Posted 19 May 2020 Well at least the politics thread eventually returned (by stealth) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnaldo Posted 19 May 2020 Share Posted 19 May 2020 2 minutes ago, MattP said: Well at least we've got a proper choice again of two Conservatives when the next election comes around You say that but you talk to some eternal student-types and the way they bang on about Starmer for deposing Corbyn, RLB and Momentum you’d think he makes Enoch Powell look like Tom Mann 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oxlong Posted 19 May 2020 Share Posted 19 May 2020 5 minutes ago, Webbo said: I wasn't trying to imply you were and I'm sorry if you thought I was. I have to say though it's not an uncommon opinion on this board. You have every right to vote whichever way you choose, when I argue these things I'm not trying to convert anyone, just put across a POV. You didn’t imply that I was and I missed what had been posted elsewhere. I’m certainly not trying to convert you to anything Webbo and as stated earlier recognise that their are differing reasons as to why people vote the way that they do. I was just surprised at the take on Starmer’s recent ratings. That’s where this started off for me earlier. Anyway, you and I have probably had too much lockdown and need a return to work for our sanity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oxlong Posted 19 May 2020 Share Posted 19 May 2020 10 minutes ago, MattP said: Well at least we've got a proper choice again of two Conservatives when the next election comes around I wonder what Thatcher’s furlough scheme would have looked like 🤔 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 19 May 2020 Share Posted 19 May 2020 6 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said: You didn’t imply that I was and I missed what had been posted elsewhere. I’m certainly not trying to convert you to anything Webbo and as stated earlier recognise that their are differing reasons as to why people vote the way that they do. I was just surprised at the take on Starmer’s recent ratings. That’s where this started off for me earlier. Anyway, you and I have probably had too much lockdown and need a return to work for our sanity I know you weren't, lets just forget who was trying what . Re; Starmer, I prefer him to Corbyn but I still wouldn't vote for him. How's that for an endorsement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 19 May 2020 Share Posted 19 May 2020 18 minutes ago, Izzy said: Well at least the politics thread eventually returned (by stealth) Gotta keep an eye on these sneaky bastards I tell ya. At least it was an anti-tory that started this one so we can dodge the heat when the inevitable political meltdown ensues. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oxlong Posted 19 May 2020 Share Posted 19 May 2020 22 minutes ago, Webbo said: I know you weren't, lets just forget who was trying what . Re; Starmer, I prefer him to Corbyn but I still wouldn't vote for him. How's that for an endorsement? I’m gobsmacked 😯 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oxlong Posted 19 May 2020 Share Posted 19 May 2020 27 minutes ago, Innovindil said: Gotta keep an eye on these sneaky bastards I tell ya. At least it was an anti-tory that started this one so we can dodge the heat when the inevitable political meltdown ensues. Is Geoff a leftie ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voll Blau Posted 19 May 2020 Share Posted 19 May 2020 Just saw someone describe Starmer's PMQs act so far as a "Disappointed Dad routine". Made me chuckle. Guess we'll find out tomorrow how much sparring Johnson's being doing over the past few days... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 19 May 2020 Share Posted 19 May 2020 5 minutes ago, Voll Blau said: Just saw someone describe Starmer's PMQs act so far as a "Disappointed Dad routine". Made me chuckle. Guess we'll find out tomorrow how much sparring Johnson's being doing over the past few days... Won't be much if anything. There was a piece in the Speccy a couple of weeks ago about how Cummings points out non stop to people stuff like PMQ's doesn't matter to barely anyone outside SW1 - as far as priorities go it's way down the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretPro Posted 19 May 2020 Share Posted 19 May 2020 9 minutes ago, MattP said: Won't be much if anything. There was a piece in the Speccy a couple of weeks ago about how Cummings points out non stop to people stuff like PMQ's doesn't matter to barely anyone outside SW1 - as far as priorities go it's way down the list. Surely that can't be right though. If for example you keep getting hammered at PMQ's - these segments are regularly repeated on the 6 and 10pm news. Eventually enough people are going to see the hammering time and time again to start questionining who the better man is. I'm not saying that's the case at the moment by the way, but watching segments on the news and on Newsnight where people get hammered in the commons usually leaves a lasting impression on me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 19 May 2020 Share Posted 19 May 2020 3 hours ago, SecretPro said: Sure. I voted Cameron in. I was at a stage in life where I had become disillusioned with Labour, especially at the back end of Blair and then Browns reign. As far as I could tell at the time, Labour were doing nothing for young (ish) working class and I felt they were rewarding laziness with welfare (the biggoted views of my peers/elders fed into this and I lacked critical thinking). The perception that they had spent all the money and ruined the economy which was widely peddled at the time (and still is) definitely played a part. They were simply not paying attention to many of the things that were important to me at the time. Voting Conservative had always been a bit unpallatable in our family (how times change, let me tell thee) but I saw that Cameron was a lot more left-leaning or at least centrist than what I had been used to with the Tories. His grasp of environmental matters was (seemingly) better and though I was well on the way to understanding ecological and enviornmental concepts, my view of the 'countryside' and 'rural' affairs at the time was different to what it is now. His 'fairer society' campaign rang true with me too. I was swept along with a lot of false hope and promises, naivety in the run-up to a GE when I was already in a disillusioned state. I knew I wasn't voting for Labour but at the same time it didn't feel like I was voting out-and-out Conservatism. It was a strange one, and I look back at that time with a fair amount of regret and disbelief. I made the wrong choice for obvious reasons now. To be fair though, I didn't particularly mind Cameron as a person. He and the cabinet then seemed of a better ilc than it is now, in terms of professionalism and skill. There were some major things that went wrong in the end for me, Brexit being the main one, and May pushing through the snoopers charter unchallenged whilst the world was busy watching ebola. (I thought May was a good home sec actually, but a terrible PM). The reduction in funding, staff and a watered down remit to Natural England (which is pretty much crippled now, in a time when we need a good environmental bodies most) was also a big one for me. I generally don't like the current crop. As people, as politicians. I think there is a lack of skill and nouse in the cabinet now, and it's fair to say I don't rate Boris one iota. But all that doesn't mean times won't change and I won't vote conservative again. I'm happy to admit errors and embarassing mistakes, I'm happy to change my mind. I don't really see politics as a party thing now, because many of the characters within it are all the same. I'm naturally left-leaning in many aspects so I guess that plays a large role in my voting decisions but it's not always the case. Yeah fair enough, I can understand your position and I can sympathise quite a bit with it. I too couldn’t vote for May (2017) and I only made my mind up just before voting in 2015 that I’d vote conservative. My vote has always been swayed by my desire to leave the EU or at least tame it’s existence, right as far back 2001. So when Labour were committed to leaving the EU in 2017, it was the one and only time I actually considered them. Although inherent mistrust ultimately lead to me spoiling my ballot instead. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Voll Blau Posted 19 May 2020 Popular Post Share Posted 19 May 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, MattP said: Won't be much if anything. There was a piece in the Speccy a couple of weeks ago about how Cummings points out non stop to people stuff like PMQ's doesn't matter to barely anyone outside SW1 - as far as priorities go it's way down the list. While I don't necessarily disagree, I think to dismiss its *slightly* increased importance in these times would be a bit foolhardy. More people are watching it at the moment a) because they're at home with nowt else on TV at that time, b) through boredom and/or c) because a lot of people feel it's a genuinely good way of finding out information about what's going on at the moment. The current format, without the adversarial braying, is also more attractive to some viewers - something my missus mentioned to me while we were watching it last week. She's far from the only person who thinks that either judging from various comments I've seen online in recent weeks. Complacency is never a good look for any politician, regardless of how few people are tuning in outside of the Westminster Bubble or care about what's said in the exchanges. Some robust responses from Johnson tomorrow would go a long way with a lot of the electorate who have lost a bit of faith in the government over the past couple of weeks. Edited 19 May 2020 by Voll Blau 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Strokes Posted 19 May 2020 Popular Post Share Posted 19 May 2020 4 minutes ago, Voll Blau said: While I don't necessarily disagree, I think to dismiss its *slightly* increased importance in these times would be a bit foolhardy. More people are watching it at the moment a) because they're at home with nowt else on TV at that time, b) through boredom and/or c) because a lot of people feel it's a genuinely good way of finding out information about what's going on at the moment. The current format, without the adversarial braying, is also more attractive to some viewers - something my missus mentioned to me while we were watching it last week. She's far from the only person who thinks that either judging from various comments I've seen online in recent weeks. Complacency is never a good look for any politician, regardless of how few people are tuning in outside of the Westminster Bubble or care about what's said in the exchanges. Some robust responses from Johnson tomorrow would go a long way with a lot of the electorate who have lost a bit of faith in the government over the past couple of weeks. They need to come out fighting soon or Starmer will keep picking away. It might be a bit of an open goal for him atm but some honesty wouldn’t go amiss right now. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpTheLeagueFox Posted 19 May 2020 Share Posted 19 May 2020 4 hours ago, Mike Oxlong said: Is Geoff a leftie ? No. I'm right handed. But I use the left occasionally... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilo Posted 19 May 2020 Share Posted 19 May 2020 The last politician to win an election after taking weekly defeats, and even that wasn't regular, was Tony Blair losing to William Hague. Bear in mind though that his government was wildly successful in the first term, enjoyed enormous poll leads and commanded a majority that was almost double that which Johnson can boast. PMQs in an environment where the government is less successful and poll ratings or the majority are more narrow takes on greater importance. Gordon Brown taking weekly shoeings from David Cameron hammered many more nails in the coffin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 19 May 2020 Share Posted 19 May 2020 4 hours ago, SecretPro said: Surely that can't be right though. If for example you keep getting hammered at PMQ's - these segments are regularly repeated on the 6 and 10pm news. Eventually enough people are going to see the hammering time and time again to start questionining who the better man is. I'm not saying that's the case at the moment by the way, but watching segments on the news and on Newsnight where people get hammered in the commons usually leaves a lasting impression on me. More people are probably watching the Boris straight to camera pieces than watch PMQs in any form. Cummins is right I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilo Posted 19 May 2020 Share Posted 19 May 2020 22 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said: More people are probably watching the Boris straight to camera pieces than watch PMQs in any form. Cummins is right I think. The problem is that Johnson's last straight to camera was the disastrous 'stay alert' address that's caused more harm to his standing than good. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 20 May 2020 Share Posted 20 May 2020 16 hours ago, Voll Blau said: While I don't necessarily disagree, I think to dismiss its *slightly* increased importance in these times would be a bit foolhardy. More people are watching it at the moment a) because they're at home with nowt else on TV at that time, b) through boredom and/or c) because a lot of people feel it's a genuinely good way of finding out information about what's going on at the moment. The current format, without the adversarial braying, is also more attractive to some viewers - something my missus mentioned to me while we were watching it last week. She's far from the only person who thinks that either judging from various comments I've seen online in recent weeks. Probably my most unpopular opinion in politics but I love the theatre and drama of a normal PMQ's and never miss it, it's parliament at it's best being loud, vibrant and argumentative. Since lockdown I've missed it on a couple of weeks - I find it incredibly drab and if I wanted to watch things in that format I'd just watch the select committees. I'd be interested in the viewing figures of PMQS since the lockdown but can't find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voll Blau Posted 20 May 2020 Share Posted 20 May 2020 46 minutes ago, MattP said: Probably my most unpopular opinion in politics but I love the theatre and drama of a normal PMQ's and never miss it, it's parliament at it's best being loud, vibrant and argumentative. Since lockdown I've missed it on a couple of weeks - I find it incredibly drab and if I wanted to watch things in that format I'd just watch the select committees. I'd be interested in the viewing figures of PMQS since the lockdown but can't find them. I agree to some extent as the theatrics of it can be a great spectacle if you're really into it, but I do wonder to what extent it actually puts the average person off. Reckon it's definitely one of the reasons why it's not of as much interest as politicos like to think it is. If you think it should serve a more serious purpose then the current format's probably more suitable (which, granted, does make it a more dour affair). In these times people want serious questions and serious answers, not clever wordplay and searing put-downs. I often wonder how different our politics would be if, as suggested to Churchill when they were rebuilding the chamber after the war, it had been reshaped into a horseshoe as you seen in many modern parliament buildings. He of course dismissed it out of hand, given how much he enjoyed the combative nature of the head-on clash. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretPro Posted 20 May 2020 Share Posted 20 May 2020 So Boris isn't doing PMQ's today...again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oxlong Posted 20 May 2020 Share Posted 20 May 2020 7 minutes ago, SecretPro said: So Boris isn't doing PMQ's today...again... Still receiving medical treatment for a whipped ass from last week 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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