Starmer Next Labour Leader

[LiberalFox]

5 hours ago, Webbo said:

I voted for the brexit party in the euro elections. 

Fair enough, think my first ever vote was for UKIP in a euro election. 

[CosbehFox]

3 hours ago, Abrasive fox said:

He is a total melon isnt he.

The day he became vocal on social media was a total disaster for himself. He’s wrote two excellent books which should be an eye opener for anyone regardless of political persuasion. 
 

Andrew Neil was about right on PMQs today. Keir didn’t expect the fight back but still dodged the punches whilst getting his own jabs in

[LiberalFox]

8 minutes ago, theessexfox said:

I’m not really his biggest fan but nothing he’s said is hypocritical, is it? He said that if you have a cleaner and you can afford to pay them to stay at home, you should. He then said that he has a cleaner who he is paying to stay at home.

It's still a bit obnoxious. He could say that he has a cleaner and as he is financially privileged he is paying them as usual but that it's better for them and the country if they stay at home. (or something of those thoughts) 

 

People like Owen Jones have to link everything they do that is socially responsible to having a go at others.

 

He's made a lucrative career out of being a very middle class person with privilege who gives his middle class opinions on working class matters and then often attacks actual working class people if they disagree with him. 

 

I wish he'd actually embark on a political career so people could not vote for him. 

 

And you know his vitriol here is just a cover for the fact he's posing as a working class champion but has someone clean his house for him. 

 

[Lionator]

A bit of a win for Keir given that the government this evening announced the inclusion of migrant health + social care workers in the bereavement scheme. Would this have happened if he didn't bring it up earlier? Would the government have changed this decision if Jeremy Corbyn demanded it? I doubt it. I suppose that's effective opposition and democracy in action.  

[Innovindil]

7 minutes ago, Lionator said:

A bit of a win for Keir given that the government this evening announced the inclusion of migrant health + social care workers in the bereavement scheme. Would this have happened if he didn't bring it up earlier? Would the government have changed this decision if Jeremy Corbyn demanded it? I doubt it. I suppose that's effective opposition and democracy in action.  

Should be considered a win for all of us tbf. 90% of the tories on here will tell you that there are labour ideas that people want to see implemented. Personally, I'm happy to see a labour leader who can actually make a difference instead of bleating on about shite people don't really care about. Hopefully going forward this will result in the best of both worlds.

[Chocolate Teapot]

11 minutes ago, Lionator said:

A bit of a win for Keir given that the government this evening announced the inclusion of migrant health + social care workers in the bereavement scheme. Would this have happened if he didn't bring it up earlier? Would the government have changed this decision if Jeremy Corbyn demanded it? I doubt it. I suppose that's effective opposition and democracy in action.  

Proper effective opposition ensuring the right thing is done. I'm sure we can all agree this is a good thing.

[Leicester_Loyal]

1 hour ago, theessexfox said:

I’m not really his biggest fan but nothing he’s said is hypocritical, is it? He said that if you have a cleaner and you can afford to pay them to stay at home, you should. He then said that he has a cleaner who he is paying to stay at home.

From what I read I thought he claimed that there was a cleaner still coming to clean his house. I may have got the wrong information, so apologies Owen if true.

[Lionator]

1 hour ago, Innovindil said:

Should be considered a win for all of us tbf. 90% of the tories on here will tell you that there are labour ideas that people want to see implemented. Personally, I'm happy to see a labour leader who can actually make a difference instead of bleating on about shite people don't really care about. Hopefully going forward this will result in the best of both worlds.

Times are a changing, it looks like it's even managed to unite the contributors in this thread too!!  

[Guest MattP]

13 hours ago, Abrasive fox said:

Proper effective opposition ensuring the right thing is done. I'm sure we can all agree this is a good thing.

Definitely. Slight adjustment, didn't use it to go on the attack or make political capital. Listened to and policy reversed.

 

Imagine Corbyn with that, he would have been demanding coal miners got compo if they lost a Canary.

 

12 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

From what I read I thought he claimed that there was a cleaner still coming to clean his house. I may have got the wrong information, so apologies Owen if true.

It's ****ing weird though isn't it? He's not a frail old bloke.

 

Any young, fit healthy person should be quite happy to do their own cleaning. The idea that because you are wealthy you should hire a poor person to clean your shit up really does strike me a pretty grotesque - even worse coming from people like him who claims to stick up for the poor.

 

It's never crossed my mind no matter how much disposable cash I've had at any point to higher a cleaner.

Edited 21 May 2020 by MattP

[Guest MattP]

Watched PMQ's - hilarious when Johnson turned up, I think his PR team are having some fun leaking bullshit to the press now.

 

Thought Boris did edge it and if he can throw Starmer off script he's in business, he certainly doesn't seem to have much ability in terms thinking on his feet as that weird stammering reply showed when the PM answered his question before he had asked it.

 

Apologies to @Voll Blau who got it spot on - they clearly had taken this more seriously, I didn't think they would care.

[SecretPro]

4 minutes ago, MattP said:

Definitely. Slight adjustment, didn't use it to go on the attack or make political capital. Listened to and policy reversed.

 

Imagine Corbyn with that, he would have been demanding coal miners got compo if they lost a Canary.

 

It's ****ing weird though isn't it? He's not a frail old bloke.

 

Any young, fit healthy person should be quite happy to do their own cleaning. The idea that because you are wealthy you should hire a poor person to clean your shit up really does strike me a pretty grotesque - even worse coming from people like him who claims to stick up for the poor.

 

It's never crossed my mind no matter how much disposable cash I've had at any point to higher a cleaner.

True but I spose if you are a cleaner then you need *somebody* to employ you - otherwise you are jobless and skint. That's 'Low Skilled' jobs for you. If everybody took the attitude that domestic cleaners are unnecessary then there would be a lot of people out of a job.

 

No way I'd ever have somebody clean my house though. The thought of somebody in my personal space going through my things creeps me out way too much.

[Chocolate Teapot]

31 minutes ago, MattP said:

Watched PMQ's - hilarious when Johnson turned up, I think his PR team are having some fun leaking bullshit to the press now.

 

Thought Boris did edge it and if he can throw Starmer off script he's in business, he certainly doesn't seem to have much ability in terms thinking on his feet as that weird stammering reply showed when the PM answered his question before he had asked it.

 

Apologies to @Voll Blau who got it spot on - they clearly had taken this more seriously, I didn't think they would care.

Not sure the public will be in the mood for his PR to have a bit of 'fun' but it certainly wouldn't surprise given his attitude to life is that it's all a game. Shows what utter ***** he's got advising if that's the case.

[Guest MattP]

5 minutes ago, Abrasive fox said:

Not sure the public will be in the mood for his PR to have a bit of 'fun' but it certainly wouldn't surprise given his attitude to life is that it's all a game. Shows what utter ***** he's got advising if that's the case.

I don't think there is anything wrong with that if it revolves around something trivial like an appearance at PMQS, get some of the permanently outraged going mental on social media only to look like twats when he turns up. I can't blame him for being sick of the shit that gets spread around him by certain parts of the press.

 

Of course they also might be trying to catch out leakers in the cabinet.

[Tommy G]

58 minutes ago, MattP said:

Definitely. Slight adjustment, didn't use it to go on the attack or make political capital. Listened to and policy reversed.

 

Imagine Corbyn with that, he would have been demanding coal miners got compo if they lost a Canary.

 

It's ****ing weird though isn't it? He's not a frail old bloke.

 

Any young, fit healthy person should be quite happy to do their own cleaning. The idea that because you are wealthy you should hire a poor person to clean your shit up really does strike me a pretty grotesque - even worse coming from people like him who claims to stick up for the poor.

 

It's never crossed my mind no matter how much disposable cash I've had at any point to higher a cleaner.

I think thats a bit of a sweeping statement - we are ''young fit and healthy'' but have a cleaner once a week, only since we had a baby who is now a toddler. Gives us more time to spend as a family instead of cleaning the house for a few hours at the weekend, for the price of a takeaway? I wouldn't class us as lazy, I work long hours and the mrs is self employed and looks after our son. Joint income of about 75K but there will plenty of people earning much lower and much higher who also have a cleaner. It's about personal choice...Why have a gym membership when you can exercise outside, why have a car when you can get the bus etc etc. 

 

I wouldnt neccessarily say all cleaners are poor either, another sweeping statement.  

Edited 21 May 2020 by Tommy G

[David Guiza]

44 minutes ago, MattP said:

Watched PMQ's - hilarious when Johnson turned up, I think his PR team are having some fun leaking bullshit to the press now.

 

Thought Boris did edge it and if he can throw Starmer off script he's in business, he certainly doesn't seem to have much ability in terms thinking on his feet as that weird stammering reply showed when the PM answered his question before he had asked it.

 

Apologies to @Voll Blau who got it spot on - they clearly had taken this more seriously, I didn't think they would care.

I'm only presuming, but I imagine Starmer would be be perfectly fine thinking on his feet. He'll undoubtedly have flaws, but things like PMQs and future live debates etc are absolutely made for him thanks to his background. Yes it's a different kettle of fish, but being a Barrister requires an incredible amount of improvisation and foresight. Johnson has a fantastic education and is clearly very bright, even if much of that comes out in bizarre recitals of Latin scripture, but his pre-political working career mainly consisted of saying outlandish things in a newspaper. 

[Mike Oxlong]

The notion that Johnson and his PR team are purposely leaking bullshit to the public at a time like this as if a cat playing with a ball of string troubles me

 

My take is that Boris originally wasn’t going to show for PMQs but on reflection he or his team thought that this would in fact be giving Starmer a victory after last weeks outcome

 

As to their performance yesterday I thought that they both stumbled and that Starmer failed to follow up on a promising opening to the start of that particular exchange 

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

Watched PMQ's - hilarious when Johnson turned up, I think his PR team are having some fun leaking bullshit to the press now.

 

Thought Boris did edge it and if he can throw Starmer off script he's in business, he certainly doesn't seem to have much ability in terms thinking on his feet as that weird stammering reply showed when the PM answered his question before he had asked it.

 

Apologies to @Voll Blau who got it spot on - they clearly had taken this more seriously, I didn't think they would care.

No need for the apology, but cheers. Will be interesting to see how the government strategy on PMQs does progress, and if the public mood for viewing it continues.

[StanSP]

Fvck it didn't know where to put this and didn't want to upset @Izzy

 

[Guest MattP]

1 hour ago, Tommy G said:

I think thats a bit of a sweeping statement - we are ''young fit and healthy'' but have a cleaner once a week, only since we had a baby who is now a toddler. Gives us more time to spend as a family instead of cleaning the house for a few hours at the weekend, for the price of a takeaway? I wouldn't class us as lazy, I work long hours and the mrs is self employed and looks after our son. Joint income of about 75K but there will plenty of people earning much lower and much higher who also have a cleaner. It's about personal choice...Why have a gym membership when you can exercise outside, why have a car when you can get the bus etc etc. 

 

I wouldnt neccessarily say all cleaners are poor either, another sweeping statement.  

Daft comparisons - you buy a gym membership for the facilities they offer that can't be replicated in an average house, cars don't have a certain route like a bus, although going forward (post coronavirus) for a variety of reasons we should be taking more buses and bicycles than making unnecessary Car journeys. None of that is relevant to just spending a bit of time cleaning your own stuff.

 

Our household income isn't dissimilar to yours but bringing someone in to do the cleaning for us has just never been on the radar, I'd class cleaning your home as pretty high on the list in terms of personal responsibility.

 

I don't have figures handy, but I doubt any cleaner does the job as a hobby as they are financially comfortable anyway, even if "poor" is stretching it.

[Guest MattP]

1 hour ago, David Guiza said:

I'm only presuming, but I imagine Starmer would be be perfectly fine thinking on his feet. He'll undoubtedly have flaws, but things like PMQs and future live debates etc are absolutely made for him thanks to his background. Yes it's a different kettle of fish, but being a Barrister requires an incredible amount of improvisation and foresight. Johnson has a fantastic education and is clearly very bright, even if much of that comes out in bizarre recitals of Latin scripture, but his pre-political working career mainly consisted of saying outlandish things in a newspaper. 

That's why I was so surprised at the stammering response yesterday, do that with packed Tory benches and you'll be hearing it.

 

No guarantee background a barrister means you are good at the box though, Anna Soubry was crap, so were Theresa Villiers and Michael Howard.

[Jon the Hat]

22 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

 

Wonder if the NHS Surcharge for migrant workers (It needs to go I agree with that) would look different if the country had not made such a move towards isolationism via Brexit? 

Not trying to justify Boris' comments in PMQs, just curious.

I don't see why NHS workers shouldn't pay it if everyone other migrant does.  Honestly this NHS workers are sundenly more special than anyone else thing is getting a bit silly.  They chose their careers, they will know this cost when they come to the UK - if they don't come we will have to pay more to attract them etc., so even if you did want to ensure they weren't out of pocket the money might be better off spent paying them a little more than by devising some kind of expensive to administer excemptions system.

 

Plenty of other countries are a lot tougher on imiigrants than we are.

[Strokes]

3 hours ago, MattP said:

Definitely. Slight adjustment, didn't use it to go on the attack or make political capital. Listened to and policy reversed.

 

Imagine Corbyn with that, he would have been demanding coal miners got compo if they lost a Canary.

 

It's ****ing weird though isn't it? He's not a frail old bloke.

 

Any young, fit healthy person should be quite happy to do their own cleaning. The idea that because you are wealthy you should hire a poor person to clean your shit up really does strike me a pretty grotesque - even worse coming from people like him who claims to stick up for the poor.

 

It's never crossed my mind no matter how much disposable cash I've had at any point to higher a cleaner.

I have a cleaner 

[Tommy G]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

Daft comparisons - you buy a gym membership for the facilities they offer that can't be replicated in an average house, cars don't have a certain route like a bus, although going forward (post coronavirus) for a variety of reasons we should be taking more buses and bicycles than making unnecessary Car journeys. None of that is relevant to just spending a bit of time cleaning your own stuff.

 

Our household income isn't dissimilar to yours but bringing someone in to do the cleaning for us has just never been on the radar, I'd class cleaning your home as pretty high on the list in terms of personal responsibility.

 

I don't have figures handy, but I doubt any cleaner does the job as a hobby as they are financially comfortable anyway, even if "poor" is stretching it.

I just don't think your original assumptions on the labour leader not warranting a cleaner are fair, he can do what he likes. He will be 10 times busier than the average person and so be it if he has a cleaner. I think your assumptions over laziness are a bit daft. There are jobs right from cleaners and fruit pickers up to CEO's of FTSE 100 companies and thats just life and the way the world goes round, I don't think he goes against the principals of his party by having a cleaner, Jesus wept. If it makes you feel superior and not as ''lazy'' not having one, then congrats 

[Bilo]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

That's why I was so surprised at the stammering response yesterday, do that with packed Tory benches and you'll be hearing it.

 

No guarantee background a barrister means you are good at the box though, Anna Soubry was crap, so were Theresa Villiers and Michael Howard.

In fairness though, there's a barrister and there's a QC who rose to become DPP.

 

Johnson is undoubtedly going to take on more defeats than wins.

[Bilo]

2 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

I just don't think your original assumptions on the labour leader not warranting a cleaner are fair, he can do what he likes. He will be 10 times busier than the average person and so be it if he has a cleaner. I think your assumptions over laziness are a bit daft. There are jobs right from cleaners and fruit pickers up to CEO's of FTSE 100 companies and thats just life and the way the world goes round, I don't think he goes against the principals of his party by having a cleaner, Jesus wept. If it makes you feel superior and not as ''lazy'' not having one, then congrats 

Surely, from a Tory perspective, he's providing work and his cleaner is proving a service for which he's willing to pay?

 

Not sure what the fuss is about.