Filip Benkovic

[Muzzy_Larsson]

1 hour ago, MPH said:

he won’t get a chance to go to a bigger club than celtic and I think he’d get plenty of game time but , obviously taking celtic and rangers out of the equation but would the opposition be of the same standard as the champ?. Would he be tested as much up there?

It's a funny one, as no doubt the Scottish league isn't the strongest, but we're still in Europe so he'd get tested there and there's the element of playing in games that will mean something and with pressure every week as we are in a title race, which he won't get at somewhere like Derby, where come the end of March they'll likely be in mid-table limbo playing a series of dead rubber type games.  We'll also play far more games in terms of volume between now and the end of the season in all likelihood.

 

The championship is a competitive league for sure and a very tough one to get out of but I think sometimes that compensates for a lack of quality, there's been some average players from even the SPFL went down there and had great careers.  The gap between the championship and the EPL is monumental imo.  Ideal move for Benkovic would be to go to someone like Norwich on loan if they would take him.

 

I personally can't see him coming back to us and as much as I loved him first time around I'm not sure I'd want him back on a 6 month loan right now given how little football he's played, could see him playing a couple of games and getting injured and missing the rest of the season or something like that.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Championship loan would be good for him, get him used to the physicality and the regular games. 

 

Still got high hopes for him but he needs to get going sooner rather than later now. 

[CityIsBlue]

1 hour ago, henrik_62 said:

It's a funny one, as no doubt the Scottish league isn't the strongest, but we're still in Europe so he'd get tested there and there's the element of playing in games that will mean something and with pressure every week as we are in a title race, which he won't get at somewhere like Derby, where come the end of March they'll likely be in mid-table limbo playing a series of dead rubber type games.  We'll also play far more games in terms of volume between now and the end of the season in all likelihood.

 

The championship is a competitive league for sure and a very tough one to get out of but I think sometimes that compensates for a lack of quality, there's been some average players from even the SPFL went down there and had great careers.  The gap between the championship and the EPL is monumental imo.  Ideal move for Benkovic would be to go to someone like Norwich on loan if they would take him.

 

I personally can't see him coming back to us and as much as I loved him first time around I'm not sure I'd want him back on a 6 month loan right now given how little football he's played, could see him playing a couple of games and getting injured and missing the rest of the season or something like that.

 

The SPFL is still viewed, whether rightly or wrongly, as a poor league.

I don't think it's regarded as any stronger than some of the Scandinavian leagues in all honesty, and to be fair, you have to admit that results in Europe over the past 10 years haven't helped the SPFL to prove otherwise.

 

From the outside looking in, it's clear the huge financial gap doesn't help in Scottish football.

But what I don't understand, is the continuation to sign players like Defoe/Craig Gordon, players at the end of their careers on above average wages, rather than putting that money into better coaches, or into scouting networks etc etc. 

[Muzzy_Larsson]

8 minutes ago, CityIsBlue said:

 

The SPFL is still viewed, whether rightly or wrongly, as a poor league.

I don't think it's regarded as any stronger than some of the Scandinavian leagues in all honesty, and to be fair, you have to admit that results in Europe over the past 10 years haven't helped the SPFL to prove otherwise.

 

From the outside looking in, it's clear the huge financial gap doesn't help in Scottish football.

But what I don't understand, is the continuation to sign players like Defoe/Craig Gordon, players at the end of their careers on above average wages, rather than putting that money into better coaches, or into scouting networks etc etc. 

It is a poor league, I'm under no illusions it's not.  That said, it's regarded as stronger as all the Scandanavian leagues bar Denmark (which we should surpass next season after this season's results are taken into account) when you look at the European co-efficients, statistically it's the 16th best in Europe.  We have Copenhagen in the next round who are probably Scandanavia's top side who we'll probably eliminate without much bother, Midjtilland the other next strongest side probably, Rangers have already spanked home and away this season, AIK, the champions of Sweden we also put out 6-1 on aggregate earlier on this season.  It's easy to deride it as much worse than it actually is when you don't watch it or check the facts.

 

Your point about the last ten years in Europe I'm not so sure is valid, looking at Celtic and Rangers the past two seasons, both have done very well in the Europa League, beating some very good sides, (Porto, Lazio, RB Leipzig, etc).  In that same ten year period we have qualified for the champions league I think around 6 times, qualifying for the last 16 once and more often than not still being in European competition after Christmas.  Given the population of our country, the weakness of the league and the financial disparity with clubs from the big leagues I'd say that's a pretty decent level of performance in Europe.

[CityIsBlue]

45 minutes ago, henrik_62 said:

It is a poor league, I'm under no illusions it's not.  That said, it's regarded as stronger as all the Scandanavian leagues bar Denmark (which we should surpass next season after this season's results are taken into account) when you look at the European co-efficients, statistically it's the 16th best in Europe.  We have Copenhagen in the next round who are probably Scandanavia's top side who we'll probably eliminate without much bother, Midjtilland the other next strongest side probably, Rangers have already spanked home and away this season, AIK, the champions of Sweden we also put out 6-1 on aggregate earlier on this season.  It's easy to deride it as much worse than it actually is when you don't watch it or check the facts.

 

Your point about the last ten years in Europe I'm not so sure is valid, looking at Celtic and Rangers the past two seasons, both have done very well in the Europa League, beating some very good sides, (Porto, Lazio, RB Leipzig, etc).  In that same ten year period we have qualified for the champions league I think around 6 times, qualifying for the last 16 once and more often than not still being in European competition after Christmas.  Given the population of our country, the weakness of the league and the financial disparity with clubs from the big leagues I'd say that's a pretty decent level of performance in Europe.

 

2009/10 - Didn't qualify for Champions League - Knocked out by Arsenal

2010/11 - Didn't qualify for Champions League or Europa League  - Knocked out by Braga + Utrecht 

2011/12 - Only got to the group stage of the Europa League after after being embarrassed by Sion who were booted out for playing illegible players

2012/13 - Got through the group stage of Champions League - Knocked out by Juventus

2013/14 - Bottom of the group in Champions League with 3 points

2014/15 - Didn't qualify for Champions League - Knocked out by Maribor

2015/16 - Didn't qualify for Champions League - Knocked out by Malmo 

2016/17 - Bottom of the group in Champions League with 3 points

2017/18 - 3rd in the group in Champions League, but again with only 3 points. Knocked out straight away in Europa League by Zenit

2018/19 - Didn't qualify for Champions League - Knocked out by AEK Athens. Knocked out in 1st knockout round of Europe League by Valencia

 

 

Only 4 out of the past 10 seasons have you made the group stage of the Champions League.

 

Braga/Maribor/Malmo/AEK Athens are the sides that have knocked you out in Champions League qualification.

Utrecht/Sion are the sides that dumped you of Europa League qualification. (Obviously you were saved by Sion being kicked out, whether you agree correctly or incorrectly, they didn't beat you over two legs because of some huge financial advantage).

......No 'Financial' excuses there i'm afraid.

 

Destruction of the 'mighty' AIK is the outlier i'm afraid, not the norm. 

As evident by the facts above.

 

Edit: I'm not convinced beating AIK 6-1 is an achievement, when you were knocked out of the Champions League by the Champions of the monsterous Romanian League, CFR Cluj. 

Edited 27 January 2020 by CityIsBlue

[The_Rorab]

2 minutes ago, CityIsBlue said:

 

2009/10 - Didn't qualify for Champions League - Knocked out by Arsenal

2010/11 - Didn't qualify for Champions League or Europa League  - Knocked out by Braga + Utrecht 

2011/12 - Only got to the group stage of the Europa League after after being embarrassed by Sion who were booted out for playing illegible players

2012/13 - Got through the group stage of Champions League - Knocked out by Juventus

2013/14 - Bottom of the group in Champions League with 3 points

2014/15 - Didn't qualify for Champions League - Knocked out by Maribor

2015/16 - Didn't qualify for Champions League - Knocked out by Malmo 

2016/17 - Bottom of the group in Champions League with 3 points

2017/18 - 3rd in the group in Champions League, but again with only 3 points. Knocked out straight away in Europa League by Zenit

2018/19 - Didn't qualify for Champions League - Knocked out by AEK Athens. Knocked out in 1st knockout round of Europe League by Valencia

 

 

Only 4 out of the past 10 seasons have you made the group stage of the Champions League.

 

Braga/Maribor/Malmo/AEK Athens are the sides that have knocked you out in Champions League qualification.

Utrecht/Sion are the sides that dumped you of Europa League qualification. (Obviously you were saved by Sion being kicked out, whether you agree correctly or incorrectly, they didn't beat you over two legs because of some huge financial advantage).

......No 'Financial' excuses there i'm afraid.

 

Destruction of the 'mighty' AIK is the outlier i'm afraid, not the norm. 

As evident by the facts above.

And the proof that the top Scandinavian clubs have done better than Celtic in the last 10 years?

 

Because by my recollection henrik isn't trying to say Celtic and the SPL are the best league ever, simply that they're better in Europe than the top Scandinavian teams.

 

Just checking now - that's 0 Scandinavian teams in the group stages 2009/10

0 Scandinavian teams in the group stages 2010/11

0 Scandinavian teams in the group stages 2011/12

Nordsjaelland in the group stages 2012/13

Copenhagen in the group stages 2013/14

Malmo in the group stages 2014/15

Malmo in the group stages 2015/16

Copenhagen in the group stages 2016/17

0 Scandinavian teams in the group stages 2017/18

0 Scandinavian teams in the group stages 2018/19

0 Scandinavian teams in the group stages 2019/20

 

So that's 5 in total, and only 2 clubs twice in the decade, meanwhile your own facts show me Celtic managed to get in 4 times am I correct? So Celtic nearly beat 3 countries' Champions League output on their own for example. 

 

Meanwhile, Celtic in the last decade have made in past the group stages once, aaaaaand let me check. Yep, not a single Scandinavian club has done that this decade.

 

Maybe they're all just dominating the Europa League, which I can't be arsed to look at right now, but you've led me to believe you enjoy facts, so I hope you enjoy these ones please and thank you =)

[nwl fox]

30 minutes ago, The_Rorab said:

And the proof that the top Scandinavian clubs have done better than Celtic in the last 10 years?

 

Because by my recollection henrik isn't trying to say Celtic and the SPL are the best league ever, simply that they're better in Europe than the top Scandinavian teams.

 

Just checking now - that's 0 Scandinavian teams in the group stages 2009/10

0 Scandinavian teams in the group stages 2010/11

0 Scandinavian teams in the group stages 2011/12

Nordsjaelland in the group stages 2012/13

Copenhagen in the group stages 2013/14

Malmo in the group stages 2014/15

Malmo in the group stages 2015/16

Copenhagen in the group stages 2016/17

0 Scandinavian teams in the group stages 2017/18

0 Scandinavian teams in the group stages 2018/19

0 Scandinavian teams in the group stages 2019/20

 

So that's 5 in total, and only 2 clubs twice in the decade, meanwhile your own facts show me Celtic managed to get in 4 times am I correct? So Celtic nearly beat 3 countries' Champions League output on their own for example. 

 

Meanwhile, Celtic in the last decade have made in past the group stages once, aaaaaand let me check. Yep, not a single Scandinavian club has done that this decade.

 

Maybe they're all just dominating the Europa League, which I can't be arsed to look at right now, but you've led me to believe you enjoy facts, so I hope you enjoy these ones please and thank you =)

[murphy]

2 hours ago, CityIsBlue said:

 

2009/10 - Didn't qualify for Champions League - Knocked out by Arsenal

2010/11 - Didn't qualify for Champions League or Europa League  - Knocked out by Braga + Utrecht 

2011/12 - Only got to the group stage of the Europa League after after being embarrassed by Sion who were booted out for playing illegible players

2012/13 - Got through the..........

 

Just thinking, for no reason whatsoever, wouldn't it be good if the forum provided a yawn emoji option along with the other rep points?

[Muzzy_Larsson]

2 hours ago, CityIsBlue said:

 

2009/10 - Didn't qualify for Champions League - Knocked out by Arsenal

2010/11 - Didn't qualify for Champions League or Europa League  - Knocked out by Braga + Utrecht 

2011/12 - Only got to the group stage of the Europa League after after being embarrassed by Sion who were booted out for playing illegible players

2012/13 - Got through the group stage of Champions League - Knocked out by Juventus

2013/14 - Bottom of the group in Champions League with 3 points

2014/15 - Didn't qualify for Champions League - Knocked out by Maribor

2015/16 - Didn't qualify for Champions League - Knocked out by Malmo 

2016/17 - Bottom of the group in Champions League with 3 points

2017/18 - 3rd in the group in Champions League, but again with only 3 points. Knocked out straight away in Europa League by Zenit

2018/19 - Didn't qualify for Champions League - Knocked out by AEK Athens. Knocked out in 1st knockout round of Europe League by Valencia

 

 

Only 4 out of the past 10 seasons have you made the group stage of the Champions League.

 

Braga/Maribor/Malmo/AEK Athens are the sides that have knocked you out in Champions League qualification.

Utrecht/Sion are the sides that dumped you of Europa League qualification. (Obviously you were saved by Sion being kicked out, whether you agree correctly or incorrectly, they didn't beat you over two legs because of some huge financial advantage).

......No 'Financial' excuses there i'm afraid.

 

Destruction of the 'mighty' AIK is the outlier i'm afraid, not the norm. 

As evident by the facts above.

 

Edit: I'm not convinced beating AIK 6-1 is an achievement, when you were knocked out of the Champions League by the Champions of the monsterous Romanian League, CFR Cluj. 

The point about AIK was simply in reference to you saying Scandinavian leagues are stronger which they are patently not. Of course there’s a few seasons we’ve underperformed in Europe, that’s par for the course when every few years we are in transition, I’m not disputing that, my general point is if we qualify for the champions league and/or stay in Europe until after Christmas that’s fairly decent for the level we play at and I’d take that again in the next ten years, particularly if it’s peppered by the odd great season in Europe as has been the case.

 

We’re similar to a lot of clubs in Europe throughout Europe round about our level, we’ll have a few good years in Europe then a few lean ones as we rebuild/are in transition. Clubs like Ajax etc are the same, before their golden generation of the last few years I don’t think they won the league or have qualified for CL in a few seasons.

 

I’m not trying to argue the Scottish league isn’t poor, or is but we’ve done fine in Europe, probably better than the likes of non top 4 teams from England do like West Ham, Burnley, Southampton et al.

[Muzzy_Larsson]

2 hours ago, The_Rorab said:

And the proof that the top Scandinavian clubs have done better than Celtic in the last 10 years?

 

Because by my recollection henrik isn't trying to say Celtic and the SPL are the best league ever, simply that they're better in Europe than the top Scandinavian teams.

 

Just checking now - that's 0 Scandinavian teams in the group stages 2009/10

0 Scandinavian teams in the group stages 2010/11

0 Scandinavian teams in the group stages 2011/12

Nordsjaelland in the group stages 2012/13

Copenhagen in the group stages 2013/14

Malmo in the group stages 2014/15

Malmo in the group stages 2015/16

Copenhagen in the group stages 2016/17

0 Scandinavian teams in the group stages 2017/18

0 Scandinavian teams in the group stages 2018/19

0 Scandinavian teams in the group stages 2019/20

 

So that's 5 in total, and only 2 clubs twice in the decade, meanwhile your own facts show me Celtic managed to get in 4 times am I correct? So Celtic nearly beat 3 countries' Champions League output on their own for example. 

 

Meanwhile, Celtic in the last decade have made in past the group stages once, aaaaaand let me check. Yep, not a single Scandinavian club has done that this decade.

 

Maybe they're all just dominating the Europa League, which I can't be arsed to look at right now, but you've led me to believe you enjoy facts, so I hope you enjoy these ones please and thank you =)

That is what you call a clamping

My point exactly, thank you, Scottish League is poor yes but nowhere near the exaggerated claims made by the football snobs.

Edited 27 January 2020 by henrik_62

[CityIsBlue]

18 hours ago, henrik_62 said:

The point about AIK was simply in reference to you saying Scandinavian leagues are stronger which they are patently not. Of course there’s a few seasons we’ve underperformed in Europe, that’s par for the course when every few years we are in transition, I’m not disputing that, my general point is if we qualify for the champions league and/or stay in Europe until after Christmas that’s fairly decent for the level we play at and I’d take that again in the next ten years, particularly if it’s peppered by the odd great season in Europe as has been the case.

 

We’re similar to a lot of clubs in Europe throughout Europe round about our level, we’ll have a few good years in Europe then a few lean ones as we rebuild/are in transition. Clubs like Ajax etc are the same, before their golden generation of the last few years I don’t think they won the league or have qualified for CL in a few seasons.

 

I’m not trying to argue the Scottish league isn’t poor, or is but we’ve done fine in Europe, probably better than the likes of non top 4 teams from England do like West Ham, Burnley, Southampton et al.

 

The Scandinavian leagues were purely an example of how your financial excuse is just that, an excuse, when clubs in those leagues are far smaller than Celtic and Rangers, yet still outperforming the league as a whole.

The point still stands though, using your own measurement of the 'Country Coefficient' table.

I said "I don't think it's regarded as any stronger than some of the Scandinavian leagues in all honesty", the table backs it up.

 

Denmark - 13th

Scotland - 16th

Sweden - 21st

Norway - 22nd

 

The above is an example of the current 'Country Coefficient' table.

Where, just like the last 10 years,every year at least one Scandinavian league has been above you in that table.

In fact, Denmark has been above you every season, so i'm not sure your 'Population' excuse is relevant either.

Cyprus has a population of 1/5th of Scotland.....Yet has performed better in Europe for 8 out of the past 10 years.

 

In the past 10 years, the three Scandinavian leagues of Denmark+Sweden+Norway have outperformed the SPFL for at least 15 of the past 30 opportunities, which proves my simple hypothesis earlier.

"I don't think it's regarded as any stronger than some of the Scandinavian leagues in all honesty" - Which after investigation, is a fact.

 

Population/Financial restraints are poor excuses, which are not justified at all, given the size of the nations/leagues/clubs which are performing better than Scotland.

I haven't even gone into depth about the fact that most of these other leagues are also performing better despite their domestic competitions being more competitive than Scotland. The SPFL has had just 1 side who was capable of winning the league for the past 7/8 seasons, and has still performed terribly. Whereas Denmark, for example, has had 4 different winners of their league in that time.

 

If the term 'Snob' is going to be put upon anyone, it may be those who suggest Scottish football is of a higher standard to that in Scandinavia....It clearly is not.

[HankMarvin]

31 minutes ago, CityIsBlue said:

 

The Scandinavian leagues were purely an example of how your financial excuse is just that, an excuse, when clubs in those leagues are far smaller than Celtic and Rangers, yet still outperforming the league as a whole.

The point still stands though, using your own measurement of the 'Country Coefficient' table.

I said "I don't think it's regarded as any stronger than some of the Scandinavian leagues in all honesty", the table backs it up.

 

Denmark - 13th

Scotland - 16th

Sweden - 21st

Norway - 22nd

 

The above is an example of the current 'Country Coefficient' table.

Where, just like the last 10 years,every year at least one Scandinavian league has been above you in that table.

In fact, Denmark has been above you every season, so i'm not sure your 'Population' excuse is relevant either.

Cyprus has a population of 1/5th of Scotland.....Yet has performed better in Europe for 8 out of the past 10 years.

 

In the past 10 years, the three Scandinavian leagues of Denmark+Sweden+Norway have outperformed the SPFL for at least 15 of the past 30 opportunities, which proves my simple hypothesis earlier.

"I don't think it's regarded as any stronger than some of the Scandinavian leagues in all honesty" - Which after investigation, is a fact.

 

Population/Financial restraints are poor excuses, which are not justified at all, given the size of the nations/leagues/clubs which are performing better than Scotland.

I haven't even gone into depth about the fact that most of these other leagues are also performing better despite their domestic competitions being more competitive than Scotland. The SPFL has had just 1 side who was capable of winning the league for the past 7/8 seasons, and has still performed terribly. Whereas Denmark, for example, has had 4 different winners of their league in that time.

 

If the term 'Snob' is going to be put upon anyone, it may be those who suggest Scottish football is of a higher standard to that in Scandinavia....It clearly is not.

 

 

Edited 28 January 2020 by HankMarvin

[CityIsBlue]

6 minutes ago, HankMarvin said:

 

 

Its debate man, literally everything that this great sport is about.....

Given the way society is going I guess it won't be long before we are told that having the opinion to support different teams is wrong and we should all come together and support just one team?

[HankMarvin]

7 minutes ago, CityIsBlue said:

Its debate man, literally everything that this great sport is about.....

Given the way society is going I guess it won't be long before we are told that having the opinion to support different teams is wrong and we should all come together and support just one team?

Yes it’s thrilling, but most of us just here for an update on the actual topic.

Rather than how big Celtic are or how good the Scandinavian league is.

if you’re that passionate about it maybe create a post in the general sports thread to “debate” it.

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

Thought this was a benkovic thread, read earlier Middlesbrough are in pole position ahead of Derby? 

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

Thought this was a benkovic thread, read earlier Middlesbrough are in pole position ahead of Derby? 

 

I think if you're a Celtic fan you can de-rail any thread and make it about your crappy league team without admonishment.

 

Benko on bench tonight. Will be difficult to loan him out in the last couple of days with Wes injured.

[Muzzy_Larsson]

4 hours ago, CityIsBlue said:

 

The Scandinavian leagues were purely an example of how your financial excuse is just that, an excuse, when clubs in those leagues are far smaller than Celtic and Rangers, yet still outperforming the league as a whole.

The point still stands though, using your own measurement of the 'Country Coefficient' table.

I said "I don't think it's regarded as any stronger than some of the Scandinavian leagues in all honesty", the table backs it up.

 

Denmark - 13th

Scotland - 16th

Sweden - 21st

Norway - 22nd

 

The above is an example of the current 'Country Coefficient' table.

Where, just like the last 10 years,every year at least one Scandinavian league has been above you in that table.

In fact, Denmark has been above you every season, so i'm not sure your 'Population' excuse is relevant either.

Cyprus has a population of 1/5th of Scotland.....Yet has performed better in Europe for 8 out of the past 10 years.

 

In the past 10 years, the three Scandinavian leagues of Denmark+Sweden+Norway have outperformed the SPFL for at least 15 of the past 30 opportunities, which proves my simple hypothesis earlier.

"I don't think it's regarded as any stronger than some of the Scandinavian leagues in all honesty" - Which after investigation, is a fact.

 

Population/Financial restraints are poor excuses, which are not justified at all, given the size of the nations/leagues/clubs which are performing better than Scotland.

I haven't even gone into depth about the fact that most of these other leagues are also performing better despite their domestic competitions being more competitive than Scotland. The SPFL has had just 1 side who was capable of winning the league for the past 7/8 seasons, and has still performed terribly. Whereas Denmark, for example, has had 4 different winners of their league in that time.

 

If the term 'Snob' is going to be put upon anyone, it may be those who suggest Scottish football is of a higher standard to that in Scandinavia....It clearly is not.

I think it’s time to let it go mate, heads have gone now.

[Muzzy_Larsson]

Going to Bristol City on loan today it seems

[rachhere]

Just now, henrik_62 said:

Going to Bristol City on loan today it seems

So we must definitely be getting someone in then... 

[Muzzy_Larsson]

Just now, rachhere said:

So we must definitely be getting someone in then... 

That’s what I read, once you guys secure the CB cover he’ll be away.

[rachhere]

Just now, henrik_62 said:

That’s what I read, once you guys secure the CB cover he’ll be away.

Interesting...! I am anticipating a loan deal now... but who?! 

[Muzzy_Larsson]

1 minute ago, rachhere said:

Interesting...! I am anticipating a loan deal now... but who?! 

Based on nothing my hunch is Vestegaard.

[Nick]

5 minutes ago, henrik_62 said:

Going to Bristol City on loan today it seems

I really will be surprised if he ever plays for Leicester.

 

I think he'll go out on loan and be sold in the summer.

[Nick]

1 minute ago, henrik_62 said:

Based on nothing my hunch is Vestegaard.

It seems he is the one they want - I believe they see something in his stats and potential they think they can turn around. He must have the core ingredients that they like and think they can develop him?

[rachhere]

1 minute ago, Swan Lesta said:

I really will be surprised if he ever plays for Leicester.

 

I think he'll go out on loan and be sold in the summer.

I don't know. He's still young to be a starting premier league centre back and he's had injury set backs which has limited his opportunities to get experience this year. Bearing in mind Wes is still going in his mid-30s, he's plenty of years ahead of him.