‘Probably got lucky’: Brendan Rodgers claims he’s overlooked because he’s British

[foxile5]

25 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

I'd love to know how a simple request for an explanation could be perceived as condescending. 

 

I accept you have that perception, I don't accept the validity of the perception. You've not said anything to really challenge that yet. I've suffered with people fitting my actions into their pre-conceived notion of my motives before, so forgive me standing my ground a little. 

'that sounds made up to me' is an attempt to align something I can, and have to my mind, evidence with being ridiculous. It's an opinion, which we all have over a subjective matter such as football, that you've reduced to essentially irrelevant and invented. 

Edited 4 November 2020 by foxile5
Missed a word or two.

[Freeman's Wharfer]

On 03/11/2020 at 17:27, Corky said:

At times I think he still suffers from the Brentan, Deluded Brendan stuff. But on the other hand, not too much noise was made outside of the club about the throwing away of top four last season.

 

I'm not surprised he's given a bit back after the Leeds and Bielsa love-in last night, though.

Exactly this.

 

He deserves credit for the tactical masterclasses he’s pulled off at Arsenal, Man City and Leeds this season.

 

However, this appears to be a lesson learned after circa 19 games of real tactical underperformance last season when the pressure was on and there was so much on the line.

 

So good job Brendan. Keep it up. But don’t get too far above your station too soon. The praise will come when it’s due.

 

[HighPeakFox]

13 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

'that sounds made up to me' is an attempt to align something I can, and have to my mind, evidenced. It's an opinion, which we all have over a subjective matter such as football, that you've reduced to essentially irrelevant and invented. 

No, I'm sorry, but there's no such thing as 'the arrogance of decision making'. 

 

I'll say no more on the matter after this, because I otherwise have no axe to grind with you and don't wish to piss you off further. 

[foxile5]

6 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

No, I'm sorry, but there's no such thing as 'the arrogance of decision making'. 

 

I'll say no more on the matter after this, because I otherwise have no axe to grind with you and don't wish to piss you off further. 

You're taking this way too hard. I'm not pissed off, I'm discussing this with you as I can see we don't share an opinion. 

 

Of course there's such a thing. It's a description of his decision making process. If i elect to take off a striker in the belief the game is won, I've been arrogant. My decision making process has been made in a way that has shown an over confidence that has been misplaced. You might not fully like the phrase I've used but that's surely understandable. 

[HighPeakFox]

12 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

If i elect to take off a striker in the belief the game is won, I've been arrogant. 

Agh, I said I wouldn't respond. Point is, we don't KNOW that's why he took Kelechi off, we have no way of being certain about it. So it is purely your perception. 

 

Anyway, be well, good luck to us all tomorrow and onwards. 

[foxile5]

8 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Agh, I said I wouldn't respond. Point is, we don't KNOW that's why he took Kelechi off, we have no way of being certain about it. So it is purely your perception. 

 

Anyway, be well, good luck to us all tomorrow and onwards. 

HPF - this is the value of a forum, discussion. Please use this as a disclaimer: If I were truly pissed off I'd not bother discussing it.

 

Well his excuse that Kelechi 'wasn't having the best game' I think we can almost all agree on as rubbish. He was our biggest creative outlet and certainly not deserving of that. Now, Brendan is known for protecting Brendan and I heavily suspect that this was a bit of backtracking on a hubristic decision gone wrong. I may be wrong, you're correct, but I don't think I am and I only help Brodge develops what I see to be as his flaws.

 

In a leadership course I was on recently, really rip-snorting stuff, the chap taking the session made a very good point about leading a team in that not acknowledging mistakes can show strength of character but acknowledging them and being culpable shows strength of character and of leader. Food for thought.

[Guest SO1]

7 hours ago, MarriedaLeicesterGirl said:

He was answering a question: "You must be delighted to have overcome three master tacticians already in Pep Guardiola, Mikel Arteta, and Marcelo Bielsea?"

 

Rodgers and LCFC came in fifth in the league last year, and is now sitting on second, as well as having one of the most talented young teams in the league -- he was asked if he was "delighted" to have beaten a newly promoted Leeds loaded with Championship players. The question was insulting.

Good Luck trying to explain something like that. Nuance isn't exactly his speciality.

[Guest SO1]

4 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

Going on about BR's perceived arrogance and ego is to wield lazy tropes. He's going to be pretty difficult to improve upon. 

As if its some kind of personality disorder in a competitive business. Self belief is required. and deserved.

[Guest SO1]

2 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

Where is the evidence for any of this, outside of people just repeating it as though it is gospel? 

Its like most of modern society. If you repeat it enough times then it must be true. A true adult would always consider the source and trust their intuition before making such a personal accusation. Says more about accuser really.

[Guest SO1]

Food for thought

Edited 4 November 2020 by SO1

[Tielemans63]

Some of our fans' obsession with the supposed 'flaws' in BR's personality is so weird. 

 

I think he almost always interviews well. I'm glad he doesn't put on that faux-humility that some managers do. I don't think he is any more or less arrogant than any other Premier League manager in that respect. In fact, he reminds me a lot of O'Neill who is rightly revered by all LCFC fans.

 

I wouldn't swap him for any other PL manager tbqh. I think he's a great fit for us.

 

 

Edited 4 November 2020 by Paddy.

[foxile5]

1 minute ago, SO1 said:

Just because you consider it a mistake(Kelechi) doesn't mean Rodgers has to. 

 

Is Rodgers not allowed to make mistakes?

 

Why on earth would Rodgers take yours or the forums advice over his and his coaches? 

1 - Well we lost 3-1 and that result probably put paid to our Champions League ambitions. I sincerely hope that even privately he considers that a mistake, borne of hubris or not. 

 

2 - Never said that. Don't put words in my mouth because you don't understand what I'm saying. 

 

3 - Again, I've made very clear that this is just a discussion of things I think Rodgers could improve to be a better manager. And I never once suggested this forum should have control of his decision making. You are talking nonesense there. 

 

The rest of your post descends into steam of consciousness vitriol and I'm not going to reply to it. He's not infallible, you know. He can improve. 

 

 

[foxile5]

1 minute ago, Paddy. said:

Some of our fans' obsession with the supposed 'flaws' in BR's personality is so weird. 

 

I think he almost always interviews well. I'm glad he doesn't put on that faux-humility that some managers do. I don't think he is any more or less arrogant than any other Premier League manager in that respect. In fact, he reminds me a lot of O'Neill who is rightly revered by all LCFC fans.

 

I wouldn't swap him for any other PL manager tbqh. I think he's a great fit for us.

 

 

Agreed for the most part. It's not an obsession it's a means for conversation. I see it as a point of his practice that could be dramatically improved. Not an unworthy discussion topic surely? 

[Deeg67]

4 hours ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

So by learning to adapt, does this make him a better or worse manager? 

 

A better one, obviously.  The real question is whether he can keep it up or whether his ego gets him in trouble again.

[deanolegend1989]

3 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

Where is the evidence for any of this, outside of people just repeating it as though it is gospel? 

That’s how it comes across at times with him, he seems arrogant sometimes. It’s fine to have some arrogance but as I’ve said already, he needs to do a bit more with us before he can be seen as a world class coach.

[HighPeakFox]

2 minutes ago, deanolegend1989 said:

That’s how it comes across at times with him, he seems arrogant sometimes. It’s fine to have some arrogance but as I’ve said already, he needs to do a bit more with us before he can be seen as a world class coach.

I wasn't aware he had laid claim to be a world class coach, but thanks for the measured response.

[deanolegend1989]

4 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

I wasn't aware he had laid claim to be a world class coach, but thanks for the measured response.

I was speaking in terms of how he’s seen by the media(Poch claimed he’s world class manager) etc.

Hes(not to I know of) claimed himself world class, but he does come across a bit arrogant in interviews to me before and doesn’t seem to ever admit mistakes post match’s when I think the general consensus has been he’s got it wrong in certain moments.

However I wasn’t criticising him as such. I like the way he is in the media in general, I was just stating how He is perceived by a lot of people, higher than I believe he actually is.

A bit like Pogba as a player, he’s so arrogant and popular on Instagram as a person so people want to believe he’s an elite player when in reality if he was as ‘low key’ as a Marc Albrighton, he wouldn’t of got anywhere near the level of career.

When he plays bad, they throw out ‘he’s a talented guy on his day’ and if he plays well they will brown him up all day long. That’s what happens when people want someone to be good.

BR is a manager whose likeable by media and the general consensus of big club fans, so he’s always seen as a top target for a big club as he’s an elite manager. My point just is that he’s done nothing to suggest he’s an elite manager so far, good yes , elite ? No.

[Deeg67]

I think BR is perceived in the business as a "nearly man", though in a different way than Claudio.  Not quite good enough to be a first choice for a big club, never able to finish the job.  Big ambition, big self-belief, but not quite the real deal.

 

Of course, his goal at LCFC is to change that perception, and get himself back in the exclusive club he so desperately wants to accept him. 

Edited 5 November 2020 by Deeg67

[HighPeakFox]

I find it quite interesting that some would have him admit his faults in interviews, because I can fully understand that reasoning. However, I think that sort of thing is better kept in-house, and perhaps we can judge 'admission of error' by the fact that he makes changes, becomes less rigid/idealistic/pure, and more willing to say (as he recently did) that it is possible to control the game without the ball. Surely that signals a willingness to change?

 

7 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

I think BR is perceived in the business as a "nearly man", though in a different way than Claudio.  Not quite good enough to be a first choice for a big club, never able to finish the job.  Big ambition, big self-belief, but not quite the real deal.

 

Of course, his goal at LCFC is to change that perception, and get himself back in the exclusive club he so desperately wants to accept him. 

At the risk of being annoying, I'd love to know where you get your certainty from about these sort of statements.

[shen]

4 hours ago, foxile5 said:

I agree he's the best we can do, that doesn't mean that I think there aren't elements that can be changed in his management and attitude. A winner needs to have a dose of ego but there's also reflection and humility at play which I think are under developed in Rodger.

I am baffled at this opinion.

Guardiola, Mourinho, Klopp, Ferguson, Wenger, Van Gaal, Trappatoni, Benitez... all of these have surely shown far less humility and much more ego than Rodgers ever has.

[1972 Fox]

The headline is slightly misleading compared to the quotes from Brendan within the article.

 

However, headlines like these coupled with his personal ambitions make me realise that there is a distinct possibility that if a 'big' club comes in for him he will be gone.

 

When he came here he talked about taking the emotion out of his decision to leave Celtic for the benefit of his career. If the Man Utd job or maybe a slightly lesser job became available, I'm almost certain he would want to go.

 

Keep Ole, Pep, Frank, Jose and Mikel at the wheel I say.

[Guest Basildon Fox]

7 hours ago, Deeg67 said:

A better one, obviously.  The real question is whether he can keep it up or whether his ego gets him in trouble again.

Why are you so desperate for Rodgers to fail? Is being proven right more important than a successful team you support? 

[Gamble92]

On 03/11/2020 at 12:33, SO1 said:

Rodgers is never going to go to United or Everton unless he wants to trash his rep at Liverpool. Not likely.

If Poch goes to United he'll have many problems to deal with and they aren't just on the field.

Makes me think that Rodgers values this club and its professionalism/organization more than people realize. How much money do you need. So hard to get everything moving in the right direction like we seem to have. If we keep on progressing is it possible to become a Dortmund, Sevilla, or Atletico? Have a pop at the top prize perhaps?

Not being funny but he was prepared to trash his rep at the club he's supported all his life to move to us. 

[fox_up_north]

53 minutes ago, Gamble92 said:

Not being funny but he was prepared to trash his rep at the club he's supported all his life to move to us. 

He also threw away the chance of doing their 10 in a row.

[Foxhateram]

2 hours ago, Blue Fox 72 said:

The headline is slightly misleading compared to the quotes from Brendan within the article.

 

However, headlines like these coupled with his personal ambitions make me realise that there is a distinct possibility that if a 'big' club comes in for him he will be gone.

 

When he came here he talked about taking the emotion out of his decision to leave Celtic for the benefit of his career. If the Man Utd job or maybe a slightly lesser job became available, I'm almost certain he would want to go.

 

Keep Ole, Pep, Frank, Jose and Mikel at the wheel I say.

I think you are right. He is very career driven. But actually at this point, although we clearly will never be a big club, success with us probably looks better on his CV than anything else. 

 

If we start to flounder around 7th-10th, which is our station really, let's face it. (We've been battling well above our station for some time now) then I think he'll go, probably citing the same things our Martin did back in the day. "I've taken them as far as I can." Etc.