Tackling racism on social media

[Freeman's Wharfer]

2 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

They've been doing that for years. Exactly that. John Barnes kicked a banana. Ian Wright lost his shit when racially abused on the pitch. 

 

People feel there is a need to raise more awareness. Those are people who have suffered racism in their everyday life and people who want to support their mates. Why is it so bad for them to speak out and try and get some unity to stop it all together. Why are people so against that ? I dont understand it. If people feel they've suffered from it, let them speak up, let them express their position. Rather then be reactive, they're aiming to be pro-active and stop it ever occurring. 

 

Racism is not just someone walking up to another and calling them a derogatory term. Its the "I've got two black mates so I'm not racist argument".  Well if they're your mates and they tell you that they've felt prejudiced against, why would you not support them in fighting against those prejudices. Its the same for the guy who walks into someone's office and says, I'm not going to call you by the name your parent gave you so can I call you "Dave" instead. **** off. 

 

There is so much energy to criticise the knee to show the offences come from abroad that it makes you wonder . These multi-millionaire highly successful players feel that the discrimination needs to go. They've decided as a collective unit to display a united act. They want change. Who is anyone to question them on that. Who is anyone to question them on the prejudices they've felt ? Who is anyone to tell those who have been victim to such abuse to carry on as normal ?

 

 

So we can ask, when will this gesture stop?

 

And the answer is quite often “when there is no racism or prejudice in the world”.

 

Spoiler alert: that day will never come

 

So it’s all so futile. A gesture that was linked to racial inequality, that is now supposed to be about all discrimination (which, if anything further dilutes it’s impact and meaning) and will be performed to a select audience at a football match for all of time. Futile.

[walkerleeds]

Do we know how many reported racist tweets came from these shores?

[Guest bennytwohats]

7 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

So we can ask, when will this gesture stop?

 

And the answer is quite often “when there is no racism or prejudice in the world”.

 

Spoiler alert: that day will never come

 

So it’s all so futile. A gesture that was linked to racial inequality, that is now supposed to be about all discrimination (which, if anything further dilutes it’s impact and meaning) and will be performed to a select audience at a football match for all of time. Futile.

This attitude genuinely makes me feel sorry for you tbh. So because racism will never cease to exist completely, we should stop taking any positive moves forward to try and tackle it? Do you honestly believe that? Do you think you'd feel the same way if you or your family were on the end of the abuse? AS someone said earlier, do you say the same things about the silence every Remembrance Day?

[Guest Mickyblueeyes]

4 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

So we can ask, when will this gesture stop?

 

And the answer is quite often “when there is no racism or prejudice in the world”.

 

Spoiler alert: that day will never come

 

So it’s all so futile. A gesture that was linked to racial inequality, that is now supposed to be about all discrimination (which, if anything further dilutes it’s impact and meaning) and will be performed to a select audience at a football match for all of time. Futile.

Not necessarily. Not at all. 

 

It has been questioned already by some prominent players. 

 

The fact is, the impact of the gesture, the vocal nature of players coming out and calling out ministers, the PM etc. is only just taking effect. I mean the PM postponing the England team reception at No. 10, holding meetings with the social media big cats and mentioning the issue at PMQs shows the effect. Its having as big (if not bigger) an impact as the "Kick it out of Racism" when it first started. Very rarely (if ever) will you see some making derogatory comments from the stands at a match. The KIOOR campaign is not as prominent as it use to be. The "knee" will go the same way when the time is right. The use of the knee or the impact of questioning players is far to early to be question or regarded as futile. 

 

People are talking about it. Understanding that the players are not happy. The discriminated are having a voice. 

 

I genuine do not understand why that is a bad thing. 

 

If I was to go off on a tangent here, we are in the 21st century and being gay and footballer is still alien. I truly believe we need something to shock the masses to address that issue too. Its ridiculous that people still feel they have to hide who they are. 

 

Like I've said previously if people, despite the countless attempts by players to tell them otherwise believe the knee is an extension of the BLM movement, come up with alternatives. Telling people to stop it and not raise the awareness is poor. Its essentially saying, I'm not discriminated against and life is fine, so you should be ok with it. Whether that is the intention or not is irrelevant, that is how it comes across. 

[what?]

34 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

So we can ask, when will this gesture stop?

 

And the answer is quite often “when there is no racism or prejudice in the world”.

 

Spoiler alert: that day will never come

 

So it’s all so futile. A gesture that was linked to racial inequality, that is now supposed to be about all discrimination (which, if anything further dilutes it’s impact and meaning) and will be performed to a select audience at a football match for all of time. Futile.

I'm not saying this necessarily applies to you cos I don't know you from Adam but perceived futility in the face of stuff like this is often a defence mechanism. Feelings of hopelessness don't come from nowhere, they're learnt and as always the question should be where did they come from and who is served by them. Probably not you but idk. In general this topic reminds me a lot of Mark Fisher and capitalist realism. Maybe people know the quote "it is easier to imagine an end to the world than an end to capitalism". It feels like you could swap out capitalism with racism there and it would apply to a lot of the people who don't like the kneeling.

 

But I think it's important to understand that racism and specifically white supremacy are not eternal facts of life. They have a basis in material reality and they emerge at a given point in history based upon conditions created by humanity and changeable by us, collectively. Sure it's vast but the struggle against it isn't futile. Even if it was though is that reason to just accept something? If you're motivated by a clear sense of what is just or unjust then the utility or futility of an action becomes secondary. I think also focusing on the outcome of an action rather than the process can cause feelings of hopelessness. Engaging in political struggle changes people, creates new people. Whether a cause succeeds or fails is not the only thing to consider.

Edited 14 July 2021 by what?

[HighPeakFox]

1 hour ago, Guest said:

Look on the bright side - you won't need to worry about typing anything online when Marcus Rashford and his Marxist co-conspirators rise to power and come to seize all your possessions

Oh by the way, Andy Murray hates the English. FACT. 

 

(This is sardonic, before anyone fails to realise) 

[fuchsntf]

41 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

So we can ask, when will this gesture stop?

 

And the answer is quite often “when there is no racism or prejudice in the world”.

 

Spoiler alert: that day will never come

 

So it’s all so futile. A gesture that was linked to racial inequality, that is now supposed to be about all discrimination (which, if anything further dilutes it’s impact and meaning) and will be performed to a select audience at a football match for all of time. Futile.

The futility & downright arrogance, is when some People Dont want to understand....These Gestures are there because the People have said enough is enough..

writing or trying to Build a feeling of  futility, is initself pathetic...

Enough is enough..!!  and like After  the last 600 years, its Time Now some Snowflakes,& conspiracists, who Feel uncomfortabel & bored After only just One year..und be told their opinions Dont fit anymore to this modern world...They are the ones who are misfits...

There are no decent discussion or opinion over the incorrectness of anti-racist Gestures or movements...

 

Trying to  disCredit anti-racist- gestures, Shows more over the ones trying to Build up some conspiracy attitude...

Its time the Major discrimination is pushed onto racists, Education but also shame, embarrasment and in your Face Gestures

are the only ways One can hope to get all Societies & nations, including...white on white /Asian on Asian/ African on African / Arab on Arab/Persian on Persian, pulled out from Knuckle-dragging, Neanderthal Backward thinking supremity-role playing....

 

Groups from Academic & o called Well-Eeducated the press & media are just as guilty, as the poverished, los pobres ,who seem to always get the blame & governments can blame...

Institutional-racism & discrimination...is acted out, actioned,created from the peoples who should Know-how better

& have a fair-penny in their pocket...

Just look World-wide at Any Major Sporting organisation & Government office..!

 

Football is Not the Problem its World-wide the various, diverse societies poor Standards of Social acceptance, up ,down & through all society-levels & processes.

 

 

 

 

Edited 14 July 2021 by fuchsntf

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

So we can ask, when will this gesture stop?

 

And the answer is quite often “when there is no racism or prejudice in the world”.

 

Spoiler alert: that day will never come

 

So it’s all so futile. A gesture that was linked to racial inequality, that is now supposed to be about all discrimination (which, if anything further dilutes it’s impact and meaning) and will be performed to a select audience at a football match for all of time. Futile.

I don't think I've seen anybody say that the aim of taking the knee is the complete and total eradication of all prejudice of any kind around the world, and I have to say I suspect you haven't either. Why are you criticising the gesture for being futile when the alternative you have put forward is to literally do nothing? Do you want more action or less? If you want more, then congratulations, you are on the same side as the people who are kneeling.

[Freeman's Wharfer]

Lots of people here mistaking saying stop taking the knee for stop doing anything.

 

Do I believe racism will always exist (and for that matter sexism, ageism, homophobia, class prejudice and all of the other inequalities and discriminations)? Yes. Because unfortunately human beings will always instinctively find fear, ridicule and prejudices in the differences we find between us.

 

Does that mean that we should stop trying to make progress? Of course not.

 

But for true progress to happen the change has to be enacted by those with genuine power and, unfortunately for, I would hazard a guess pretty much everyone in this thread (unless we have Etonians posting amongst us), none of us have the opportunity to gain true power.

Racism and prejudice and inequalities reinforce the power structures and hierarchies in our society. So whilst we live in an age where the vast majority of political leaders come from the same educational institutions, where corruption and cronyism is rife in our ruling party but the public seems not to care one iota, where (I believe) your life chances are determined more by the postcode into which you are born than the colour of your skin… footballers taking a knee is futile.

 

We have reached a point, it would seem, where living your life as a good person and treating others with fairness and equality is not enough. You have to be condemning and gesturing and discussing racism everyday or you are “one of them”.

 

Meanwhile, those with the true power who know that the power of their wealth, their class and their bloodline will never be challenged probably sit and laugh at us all debating Marcus Rashford kneeling before a football match.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

7 hours ago, Daggers said:

And, 'taking the knee' is absolutely working, as evidenced by the kind of people it's upsetting.

You have just confirmed the point I have been trying to make. It is by upsetting people, that the problem is inflated, and the more you do so, the more certain it is that the issue will never be resolved.  It's just fanning the flames of hatred, but if that's what people want, they're doing a great job

[HighPeakFox]

1 minute ago, DANGEROUS TIGER said:

You have just confirmed the point I have been trying to make. It is by upsetting people, that the problem is inflated, and the more you do so, the more certain it is that the issue will never be resolved.  It's just fanning the flames of hatred, but if that's what people want, they're doing a great job

Without wishing to be an arse with you (as I realise you are not trying to be an arse) - what is wrong with upsetting racists? Do you honestly believe it is fanning the flames, or is it just exposing an ugly truth that was there all along? I think too many of us pretend it's all ok when it's so deeply ingrained in society. 

 

When you have a PM and a Home Office Minister basically refusing to acknowledge the problem and trying to appeal to the racist vote, then THAT is fanning the flames. When you have a revolting press that will twist any situation it can to stir up racial division, THAT is fanning the flames. People who stoke hatred need to be exposed - once upon a time, most of them would never be heard beyond the grotty little pub they would live in. Now they have been emboldened to believe that hatred is the new normal - taking the knee is one way of saying 'no' to that. Do we require more than that? Of course we do, but it is a start.

[Guest Mickyblueeyes]

40 minutes ago, DANGEROUS TIGER said:

You have just confirmed the point I have been trying to make. It is by upsetting people, that the problem is inflated, and the more you do so, the more certain it is that the issue will never be resolved.  It's just fanning the flames of hatred, but if that's what people want, they're doing a great job

It’s pissing off the right people. It’s the ones who “sympathise” but don’t want anything to rock the boat or those who genuinely don’t like it because they don’t like the people doing it. 
 

Again, if it has no bearing on someone why would they put so much effort in hating the act. Surely you’d let people get on with it. No one who genuinely wants the best wants players, people to actually do nothing at all and “just get on with it”. 

[BlueSi13]

You can be opposed to all forms of racism and you can be against taking the knee.

 

The end.

 

[HighPeakFox]

3 minutes ago, BlueSi13 said:

You can be opposed to all forms of racism and you can be against taking the knee.

 

The end.

 

Absolutely. But you don't also boo it moronically.

[BlueSi13]

1 minute ago, HighPeakFox said:

Absolutely. But you don't also boo it moronically.

Agreed.  It's been said before but there needs to be a new symbol.  One that isn't linked to the importation of US racial politics and BLM.

 

For example, Millwall fans were absolutely slated in the media for their booing of the knee, however the same media largely ignored the fact they then cheered when they linked arms with the opposition and unveiled an anti-racism banner in a subsequent match.

 

I just fear too many unfluential people are glued to the hateful tribal toxicity of social media and simply don't want to back down.

[jim5000]

9 hours ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

So we can ask, when will this gesture stop?

 

And the answer is quite often “when there is no racism or prejudice in the world”.

 

Spoiler alert: that day will never come

 

So it’s all so futile. A gesture that was linked to racial inequality, that is now supposed to be about all discrimination (which, if anything further dilutes it’s impact and meaning) and will be performed to a select audience at a football match for all of time. Futile.

 

Why is it wrong to say that taking the knee will stop when the racial abuse stops? Are you saying that society will always be racist, so therefore there is no point is taking a stand about it?

 

Should Leicester City Football Club take down all of the 'Kick racism out of football' signage and remove the words from all matchday programmes?

 

Yes, it absolutely should continue until racial abuse stops, and if you think that 3 seconds of players pointing out 'hey, you might cheer me, but I get ****ing crap loads of racist abuse on twitter outside of the match, please try and change the views of those that you know' is futile than I think that says more about you than about the gesture.

[hejammy]

8 hours ago, BlueSi13 said:

You can be opposed to all forms of racism and you can be against taking the knee.

 

The end.

 

You can be ofcourse, but then what is the reason for being against the knee? Is the first point a false justification? Please don't reply back with 'the America association with BLM' because that has been explained many many times.