Tackling racism on social media

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

2 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

You're being stupid now. "Isn't a problem" and "should ignore it" who has said that? I guess it's past your bedtime.

No I made an assumption based on your point that taking the knee has made it worse. Implying that it wasn't a problem before. I also made a comment about your lack of constructive discussion around the topic as you didn't seem to care about what else you could do to address the issue, with you arguing its not your concern, just that you didn't like it.

 

To be clear to you this debate isn't about you and doesn't really concern you but you seem to be doing an amazing job of making it about you. So I'd have to conclude if anyone is being an idiot here it is in fact most likely you. 

[David Hankey]

1 minute ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

No I made an assumption based on your point that taking the knee has made it worse. Implying that it wasn't a problem before. I also made a comment about your lack of constructive discussion around the topic as you didn't seem to care about what else you could do to address the issue, with you arguing its not your concern, just that you didn't like it.

 

To be clear to you this debate isn't about you and doesn't really concern you but you seem to be doing an amazing job of making it about you. So I'd have to conclude if anyone is being an idiot here it is in fact most likely you. 

Thanks for your summing up based on "assumption" and your infantile comments in your last paragraph. I have nothing more to add.

[HighPeakFox]

6 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

No I made an assumption based on your point that taking the knee has made it worse. Implying that it wasn't a problem before. I also made a comment about your lack of constructive discussion around the topic as you didn't seem to care about what else you could do to address the issue, with you arguing its not your concern, just that you didn't like it.

 

To be clear to you this debate isn't about you and doesn't really concern you but you seem to be doing an amazing job of making it about you. So I'd have to conclude if anyone is being an idiot here it is in fact most likely you. 

Ignore feature recommended, I am afraid.

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

2 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

Thanks for your summing up based on "assumption" and your infantile comments in your last paragraph. I have nothing more to add.

 

[David Hankey]

15 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Ignore feature recommended, I am afraid.

What a splendid idea, couldn't agree more!! Insightful as ever, thank you HighPeakFox

Edited 13 July 2021 by David Hankey

[Freeman's Wharfer]

9 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Someone mentioned 80% earlier so just sharing this. 
 

Logging into social media and calling a footballer the N word because he missed a penalty boggles my mind, freaks. 

Southgate explicitly says the people who had analysed the social media activity had been able to show the vast majority of racist tweets had come from abroad.
 

You then post some statistics that verify what he’s said (admittedly the source isn’t clear) and people continue to talk about how racism on social media is a problem in the UK and what to do about it without even acknowledging your post!

 

This is the problem: all the discourse in the UK exists in a vacuum and other countries simply look at us with bewilderment at what’s happening right now. Racism is a global problem and all that’s happening right now is finding who and how to blame in the UK (which is actually a great example for multiculturalism) whilst the rest of the world carries on as they always were.

[Foxxed]

2 hours ago, Bert said:

It’s simple really. Just don’t say anything racist. It’s that easy. I don’t get what people get out of it. 
 

Racism makes people happy. They can feel good about themselves by degrading others. They can say they’re great people—something that’s usually diificult—because they’re not these other “bad” people. It’s a part of their self-worth.

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

43 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

Southgate explicitly says the people who had analysed the social media activity had been able to show the vast majority of racist tweets had come from abroad.
 

You then post some statistics that verify what he’s said (admittedly the source isn’t clear) and people continue to talk about how racism on social media is a problem in the UK and what to do about it without even acknowledging your post!

 

This is the problem: all the discourse in the UK exists in a vacuum and other countries simply look at us with bewilderment at what’s happening right now. Racism is a global problem and all that’s happening right now is finding who and how to blame in the UK (which is actually a great example for multiculturalism) whilst the rest of the world carries on as they always were.

What about those twitter accounts up north that got 'hacked'?

 

And this...

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/england-fans-wembley-euro-2020-final-b1882801.html

Edited 13 July 2021 by Chocolate Teapot

[trabuch]

1 hour ago, UniFox21 said:

 

Personally don't agree with this, given racism is a world wide problem. 

 

 

I'd ban us for our inability to run a tournament securely. I expect UEFA and FIFA will look less favourably on the social disorder side of things than the racism (although they appear to be linked). They tend to let racism go relatively unpunished. 

[Spudulike]

29 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

Southgate explicitly says the people who had analysed the social media activity had been able to show the vast majority of racist tweets had come from abroad.
 

You then post some statistics that verify what he’s said (admittedly the source isn’t clear) and people continue to talk about how racism on social media is a problem in the UK and what to do about it without even acknowledging your post!

 

This is the problem: all the discourse in the UK exists in a vacuum and other countries simply look at us with bewilderment at what’s happening right now. Racism is a global problem and all that’s happening right now is finding who and how to blame in the UK (which is actually a great example for multiculturalism) whilst the rest of the world carries on as they always were.

Some more discussion on this... 

 

https://www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/social-media/2021/07/who-behind-online-abuse-black-england-players-and-how-can-we-stop?s=09

 

[Freeman's Wharfer]

28 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

Some more discussion on this... 

 

https://www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/social-media/2021/07/who-behind-online-abuse-black-england-players-and-how-can-we-stop?s=09

 

Excellent piece, this one.

[Guest Mickyblueeyes]

1 hour ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

Southgate explicitly says the people who had analysed the social media activity had been able to show the vast majority of racist tweets had come from abroad.
 

You then post some statistics that verify what he’s said (admittedly the source isn’t clear) and people continue to talk about how racism on social media is a problem in the UK and what to do about it without even acknowledging your post!

 

This is the problem: all the discourse in the UK exists in a vacuum and other countries simply look at us with bewilderment at what’s happening right now. Racism is a global problem and all that’s happening right now is finding who and how to blame in the UK (which is actually a great example for multiculturalism) whilst the rest of the world carries on as they always were.

Why does it matter so much where the tweets, post, whatever comes from ? Of course there are trolls online. Of course those trolls encourage those in the UK with the sentiment to act out. Whose putting the blame solely on the UK. 
 

Take our club, I’ve been a Leicester fan for years, my dad before then. I’ve never experienced racism at Filbert Street or the KP from our own fans. That doesn’t mean there isn’t racist Leicester fan. I still remember walking in A1 once with my brother and some twat behind me going no Arsenal fans in here lads - obviously said because I am Asian. However, the feeling I get and have seen at the KP and Filbert is Leicester fans won’t accept that behaviour which is why it’s not tolerated. 
 

The same applies here. These players are reading an absolute shit load of disgusting post every time something of note happens and something needs to be done about. We need to eradicate the problem here and abroad because no one should have to deal with that. We make it unacceptable. 
 

If things like media attention, the Knee, the outcry on social media leads to research, actions and solutions to stop it, then I’m all for it. It’s a good thing. Wherever it comes from, it needs to be stamped out. Same applies to discrimination of the LGBTQ community. 

[Hoopla10]

4 hours ago, Sly said:

moderators to review.

That would require them spending money. Which like most social media companies they will outsource to poorer countries where their citizens will get the pleasure of "minimum wage" to wade through more of our detritus. At least in this case it will "only" be racism and not some of the most horrific images known to humanity. 

 

But ultimately if we want these companies to increase self-regulation that's what needs to happen. As with most of this stuff it requires governments to actually put in their own regulation for these companies with hefty fines (think in the millions) if they don't abide by them. We seemingly can't tax them so why not fine them  

 

The idea of giving them our identity is problematic on a number of levels. But who's trusting any of them to not sell that information on? We have to VERY careful at how much information they and the government hold on us. You only have to look at China to where this leads. The same freedom people give up to help "solve" crime is used to oppress (and cultural genocide) an ethnic group. 

 

Education. And I don't just mean educating people about racism. It should be an act of lifting everybody up. But like anything it requires proper funding. So what a surprise when a government has dragged a country through austerity, has defunded core social support from community youth groups (a huge percentage have been closed with two thirds currently threatening to close desperate for the funding promised but has yet seen a penny of) to schools themselves we also see a rise in far right opinions gaining momentum. We all know this, right. It's all linked. 

[jim5000]

6 hours ago, Bablemikey said:

Social media is providing a platform of course, but is it not a reflection of how decency is sinking and the rising tide is one of hatred & bigotry? I'm nearly 60 and I can't remember a time when it felt like society was crumbling like this, and it feels like we are being propelled towards something very dark and sinister. I think the last 5 years or so have been very bad for many nations, including ourselves, and the trajectory is frightening.

I honestly don't know how we can pull out of this nosedive I feel we're in, but zero tolerance of bigotry is a start I'd make and I'd be looking firstly at those who claim to be leaders of our nation.

I agree with this. It felt like 10 years ago, in the early 2000's and early 2010 that at least in this country, we had managed to put racism back in it's box. Especially with football, the years of 'kick it out' had finally started to work and generally anyone at a match who was displaying racism would quickly be told to pack it in by those around them. It seems like as a society we were on top of it even if there was still work to do.

 

However it seems like the last 5 years that has all become completely undone and racism is back with a vengeance.

 

Something has gone wrong with society and looking at the events of the UK over the past 5 years and the trends, I can only postulate that this comes from the leadership of the country. Divisions have been stoked, xenophobia has been championed, and the current government have pushed a narrative of 'British is best' and used culture wars to win votes. This has led to the latent xenophobia in Britian being empowered and, amplified by social media, traditional print media, and new TV stations such as GB News, to come back out and start displaying these abhorrent behaviours that have been showcased over the past few days.

 

There clearly is something wrong with a country, and it can only be attributed to those who have lead us to this place, when the day after we lose a major international tournament on penalties the overriding news stories revolve around racial abuse.

Edited 13 July 2021 by jim5000

[jim5000]

3 hours ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

5 hours ago, David Hankey said:

"Taking a knee", irrespective of what Mings's opinion is, is a gesture. This act, another import from the US, has solved absolutely nothing, in fact, the problem is worse now than ever before. It could be argued that it has inflamed the situation.

 

Why does it matter where a gesture originated? Does that dilute it's meaning?

 

What has solved nothing is the current leaders of the country, and society at large, not standing by the gesture that the players are making and saying "These guys are correct, there is no place in modern, global, Britain, for racisim. We respect what they are saying and will strive to deliver a more equal society for our diverse population of citizens and for people across the globe"

 

Instead we get

 

Boris Johnson, Primeminster of the UK - Declined to condemn fans that boo taking the knee & “I do not believe in gestures, I believe in substance.”

Priti Patel, Home Secretary of the UK - "Football fans have a right to boo players for taking the knee in protest at racism" & “I just don't support people participating in that type of gesture politics"

 

And a multitude of Conservative MPs who openly tweeted "Perhaps Marcus Rashford should focus on football rather than politics" when he missed a penalty in the final of the Euro's.

 

Do all of the people that call this 'gesture' politics think that Jesse Owens was wrong to snub Hitler at the Berlin Olympics?

Edited 13 July 2021 by jim5000

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

Southgate explicitly says the people who had analysed the social media activity had been able to show the vast majority of racist tweets had come from abroad.
 

You then post some statistics that verify what he’s said (admittedly the source isn’t clear) and people continue to talk about how racism on social media is a problem in the UK and what to do about it without even acknowledging your post!

 

This is the problem: all the discourse in the UK exists in a vacuum and other countries simply look at us with bewilderment at what’s happening right now. Racism is a global problem and all that’s happening right now is finding who and how to blame in the UK (which is actually a great example for multiculturalism) whilst the rest of the world carries on as they always were.

Well, yeah. The vast majority of Twitter users, football supporters and racists come from abroad. We're in the UK and so naturally the discussion here is going to centre around the problems in the UK and how we can combat them.

[jim5000]

2 hours ago, Spudulike said:

Some more discussion on this... 

 

https://www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/social-media/2021/07/who-behind-online-abuse-black-england-players-and-how-can-we-stop?s=09

 

There is some truth in this, "racist people aren't racist because of socail media, they are racist on social media", however these fails to address the issue that social media creates echo chambers where people have their views reinforced and deemed acceptable. Racism was being stamped out slowly, at least in this country, and social media has certainly played a part in letting all of the racists connect with each other and confirm their views in a giant circle-jerk. Whereas before they would have been told to stop spouting such abhorrent abuse and guided by their peers, now they can get onto twitter and find other like minded individuals that promote their views on the world as acceptable.

 

The only way out is for the governments of the world to hold the platforms accountable for the views that they surface, and say that if you allow unmoderated hate speech on your platform, you will be prosecuted for the disemination of hate speech.

[MadKaw]

6 hours ago, UniFox21 said:

 

Personally don't agree with this, given racism is a world wide problem. 

 

 

So what was his opinion on Qatar then.?

[Daggers]

Well I for one would like to know what Thracian thinks about all of this.

[Dahnsouff]

5 hours ago, jim5000 said:

 

…"

 

And a multitude of Conservative MPs who openly tweeted "Perhaps Marcus Rashford should focus on football rather than politics" when he missed a penalty in the final of the Euro's.

 

…

Was it more than Pritti Patel then? Sorry, hadn’t heard that 

 

On this topic, it is abhorrent, taking the knee is fine as a gesture as it keeps the topic firmly in the public conscious which is a good thing.

The conclusion is very simple, it’s wrong and should be fought against whenever possible, but it is such a complex issue when BLM, it’s point of origin, etc is introduced.

[Daggers]

5 hours ago, jim5000 said:

Racism was being stamped out slowly, at least in this country, and social media has certainly played a part in letting all of the racists connect with each other and confirm their views in a giant circle-jerk.

I’d say overt displays of racism were being stamped out - not racist attitudes per se.

 

If the last few years have demonstrated anything it’s that it has been here all along, coupled with the head-in-the-sand systemic racism embedded within society that drives some to whine about people going on the knee or having the temerity to talk about racism.

 

The defence offers up some of the Neanderthal views in this thread as exhibit A.

[Le Renard]

Brexit combined with a populist government has made us look like a nation of racist xenophobic hooligans.  Living abroad, I'm finding it more & more embarrassing being English, Image is everything from a distance.  Yes in my experience France is a more racist country and there are big problems with the North African community, if your black and you get stopped by the police, then it is not a very nice experience.  What France and most of europe doesn't have is a very jingoist tabloid press that project its country and values around the world.  Combine this with scenes of booing national anthems, drunken yobs and racist insults by social media, then it just make us look like a bunch of uneducated loons.  

[Dr The Singh]

8 hours ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

Southgate explicitly says the people who had analysed the social media activity had been able to show the vast majority of racist tweets had come from abroad.
 

You then post some statistics that verify what he’s said (admittedly the source isn’t clear) and people continue to talk about how racism on social media is a problem in the UK and what to do about it without even acknowledging your post!

 

This is the problem: all the discourse in the UK exists in a vacuum and other countries simply look at us with bewilderment at what’s happening right now. Racism is a global problem and all that’s happening right now is finding who and how to blame in the UK (which is actually a great example for multiculturalism) whilst the rest of the world carries on as they always were.

India is probably the most racist country I have ever been to.  Not surprised.

[Dr The Singh]

1 hour ago, Daggers said:

Well I for one would like to know what Thracian thinks about all of this.

He is with Dangerous Turd, with Peter Shilton at a White Lives Matter conference.

[st albans fox]

16 minutes ago, Le Renard said:

ngoist tabloid press that project its country and values around the world.  Combine this with scenes of booing national anthems, drunken yobs and racist insults by social media, then it just make us look like a bunch of uneducated loons.  

If the cap fits ……..

I think we have too many with a voice …….in other countries they tend to be quieter ……..maybe it’s the culture of too much alcohol here that dictates that …..