Social media abuse: UK "by far" main origin

[Carl the Llama]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58159878

This news shatters a lot of people's narratives about what happened after the final and the prevalence of racism in this country.  Clap the knee.

[AKCJ]

The whole "football twitter" scene is extremely toxic and needs to be seriously looked at.

 

Some of the stuff you see on there are at odds at the stuff you see and hear between rival supporters (on the whole).

 

I can log onto twitter and find myself in that rabbit hole where you see some properly, properly vile shit that people say to each other and about other footballers.

 

I'm not trying to say that football doesn't have a problem with racial abuse at football stadiums (what happened on Saturday goes to show that) but I genuinely do think there is a massive problem with online anonymity and the idea that people can freely abuse others with no repercussions. I have absolutely no doubt that those involved with abusing Ian Wright will lose their privilege to attend football games but I sincerely doubt that those abusing footballers regularly will suffer the same problem (not to say it never happens but generally it doesn't seem to).

 

Twitter, Instagram, Facebook etc has so much to answer for in my view. Their lackadaisical attitude is furthering the problem for me.

[Brainy]

14 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

The whole "football twitter" scene is extremely toxic and needs to be seriously looked at.

 

Some of the stuff you see on there are at odds at the stuff you see and hear between rival supporters (on the whole).

 

I can log onto twitter and find myself in that rabbit hole where you see some properly, properly vile shit that people say to each other and about other footballers.

 

I'm not trying to say that football doesn't have a problem with racial abuse at football stadiums (what happened on Saturday goes to show that) but I genuinely do think there is a massive problem with online anonymity and the idea that people can freely abuse others with no repercussions. I have absolutely no doubt that those involved with abusing Ian Wright will lose their privilege to attend football games but I sincerely doubt that those abusing footballers regularly will suffer the same problem (not to say it never happens but generally it doesn't seem to).

 

Twitter, Instagram, Facebook etc has so much to answer for in my view. Their lackadaisical attitude is furthering the problem for me.

I struggle to stomach social media these days purely because of these people. I get sucked into reading comments on things and its just full of your "ratios" and "."'s and "not in my book" I am genuinely offended on how unfunny and cringey it is.

[Fox92]

20 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

The whole "football twitter" scene is extremely toxic and needs to be seriously looked at.

 

Some of the stuff you see on there are at odds at the stuff you see and hear between rival supporters (on the whole).

 

I can log onto twitter and find myself in that rabbit hole where you see some properly, properly vile shit that people say to each other and about other footballers.

 

I'm not trying to say that football doesn't have a problem with racial abuse at football stadiums (what happened on Saturday goes to show that) but I genuinely do think there is a massive problem with online anonymity and the idea that people can freely abuse others with no repercussions. I have absolutely no doubt that those involved with abusing Ian Wright will lose their privilege to attend football games but I sincerely doubt that those abusing footballers regularly will suffer the same problem (not to say it never happens but generally it doesn't seem to).

 

Twitter, Instagram, Facebook etc has so much to answer for in my view. Their lackadaisical attitude is furthering the problem for me.

They are proper weirdos them lot. Their "banter" isn't even funny either, I just see stuff like "small club" and "ratio".

 

It was the reason I deleted twitter app off my phone. I got fed up of all of them. I just log on now and then from my PC.

 

Though I must add, that was a good move by me. I realised how long I was spending on that platform. I don't have Facebook or Instagram so that was my only form of social media but I was on it a lot. Now I'm not

Edited 10 August 2021 by Fox92

[Hammo]

31 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58159878

This news shatters a lot of people's narratives about what happened after the final and the prevalence of racism in this country.  Clap the knee.

Why would I - or others - clap the knee when, judging by those figures, it is obviously not having a positive effect on rooting out and reducing racism?

 

It has been going on for over a year at Premier League grounds now and remains the ultimate virtue signal that makes people feel good about themselves but has achieved nothing other than - if the media is to be believed - create further division and rancour. And, it seems, triggering more, not less, racism.

 

If the FA and pressure groups such as Kick It Out are serious about achieving their declared objectives, then they need to urgently revise their strategy. Because the current anti-racist overkill - massive media coverage, ‘Big Brother’-like slogans everywhere (kits, stadiums, adverts, TV), and especially the farce that is ‘taking the knee’ - is obviously not working. Unless they change tack, this plague is set to run and run…

[Corky]

This place is really good for finding relevant Twitter stuff so I generally avoid it (I might look at accounts of journalists I like or somebody like Football Cliches). As has been mentioned, all the banter is just tedious and the nasty stuff just depressing.

[Carl the Llama]

3 minutes ago, Hammo said:

Why would I - or others - clap the knee when, judging by those figures, it is obviously not having a positive effect on rooting out and reducing racism?

 

It has been going on for over a year at Premier League grounds now and remains the ultimate virtue signal that makes people feel good about themselves but has achieved nothing other than - if the media is to be believed - create further division and rancour. And, it seems, triggering more, not less, racism.

 

If the FA and pressure groups such as Kick It Out are serious about achieving their declared objectives, then they need to urgently revise their strategy. Because the current anti-racist overkill - massive media coverage, ‘Big Brother’-like slogans everywhere (kits, stadiums, adverts, TV), and especially the farce that is ‘taking the knee’ - is obviously not working. Unless they change tack, this plague is set to run and run…

Well I suppose you don't have to applaud it, but people should certainly stop seeking to delegitimise it. Becoming more aware of a bad thing happening through these campaigns and the recent media focus doesn't mean the issue's getting worse, it's just a lot harder to ignore now that we can communicate more easily than at any time in human history.

[Vlad the Fox]

Twitter needs to be held accountable. However could a vpn distort this figure, I don’t use Twitter or vpns so wouldn’t know how it works. I’d assumed myself that many of these tweets were from abroad, I guess I’d buried my head in the sand a bit and didn’t want to accept that I live in a society or community where people are this vile. It’s sad that social media has given these people a voice and is unwilling to address the problem or help identify the culprits. It appears to be that the modern world has allowed this disease to grow again after so much progress has been made in the last 30 years. At least people are speaking out more now, racism should be confronted and challenged by all right minded people in society in all it’s forms and guises. 
 

Years ago there used to be a number that you could text at matches to report racism/homophobic abuse that would allow people to discretely report the crime. That should be made more readily available, it would have maybe sorted those idiots out abusing Wright and Keane. 
 

 

How many actually use Twitter? I read somewhere recently that only 20% of the population use it and then a tiny percentage of that 20% are responsible for something like 90% of tweets. Surely that can’t be right can it?

[Nalis]

2 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58159878

This news shatters a lot of people's narratives about what happened after the final and the prevalence of racism in this country.  Clap the knee.

I get the point they are making and they rightly debunk the narrative from some as you say but I can't help but feel it's a strategy by Twitter just to deflect anger away from the square root of fvck all they are doing to tackle it.

[Innovindil]

6 minutes ago, Vlad the Fox said:

Twitter needs to be held accountable. However could a vpn distort this figure, I don’t use Twitter or vpns so wouldn’t know how it works. I’d assumed myself that many of these tweets were from abroad, I guess I’d buried my head in the sand a bit and didn’t want to accept that I live in a society or community where people are this vile. It’s sad that social media has given these people a voice and is unwilling to address the problem or help identify the culprits. It appears to be that the modern world has allowed this disease to grow again after so much progress has been made in the last 30 years. At least people are speaking out more now, racism should be confronted and challenged by all right minded people in society in all it’s forms and guises. 
 

Years ago there used to be a number that you could text at matches to report racism/homophobic abuse that would allow people to discretely report the crime. That should be made more readily available, it would have maybe sorted those idiots out abusing Wright and Keane. 
 

 

How many actually use Twitter? I read somewhere recently that only 20% of the population use it and then a tiny percentage of that 20% are responsible for something like 90% of tweets. Surely that can’t be right can it?

Twitter have somewhat deliberately worded it to focus on the abuse from English fans. "the UK was - by far - the largest country of origin" =/= the majority of abuse was from UK based twitter accounts. Easy to forget that the UK population is less than 1% of the worlds population, so whilst we may have the most of any country spewing this nonsense, it could still be a minority of the rest of the planet.

 

Also, considering twitter are saying 99% of the accounts were identifyable, as in these daft cvnts posting these vile messages have literally signed up to twitter using their own name/address whatever else twitter needs, I doubt the clowns are smart enough, or have any need to use a VPN.

 

In any event, it shouldn't matter where this abuse is coming from, England, Germany, Mongolia, some dick sat on a space station somewhere, all of them should get a kick in a goolies. The same way Mark slaps idiots off of here, twitter/facebook whoever else need to take responsibility and do the same.

[Carl the Llama]

17 minutes ago, Nalis said:

I get the point they are making and they rightly debunk the narrative from some as you say but I can't help but feel it's a strategy by Twitter just to deflect anger away from the square root of fvck all they are doing to tackle it.

The chain of tweets serves to show they're doing a bit more than fvck all.  I agree there needs to be a continued focus on the digital platform providers but I don't think it's as simple as putting all the blame on the them.  Racism has proved extremely tough to root out of offline human society for millennia leading up to this period in our history, it's not just because it's online and easier to feel anonymous comfort that this is happening.  You see the same phenomenon in drivers effing and jeffing from the safety of their metal shells.  It's a problem with human nature and if we can ever solve it we can only do so by forcing ourselves as a society to see the issue ie. With the continued kneeling and the discussions it engenders.

 

14 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Twitter have somewhat deliberately worded it to focus on the abuse from English fans. "the UK was - by far - the largest country of origin" =/= the majority of abuse was from UK based twitter accounts. Easy to forget that the UK population is less than 1% of the worlds population, so whilst we may have the most of any country spewing this nonsense, it could still be a minority of the rest of the planet.

It means that if you were to list the number of offending posts by the country they came from, we would be top of the list and apparently by a significant margin.   It would be nice if they were less vague because you're right it doesn't necessarily mean >50% of all tweets, but it's still incredibly damning, especially given they're our own players.

[Innovindil]

17 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

It means that if you were to list the number of offending posts by the country they came from, we would be top of the list and apparently by a significant margin.   It would be nice if they were less vague because you're right it doesn't necessarily mean >50% of all tweets, but it's still incredibly damning, especially given they're our own players.

 

49 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

so whilst we may have the most of any country spewing this nonsense

I know what it means I literally said it.

 

Personally I'd have expected the vast majority of this abuse to come from actual England based accounts though, considering it was England fans that felt let down.

 

Like I said, in the end it shouldn't matter where the abuse is coming from and I'm glad to see the police actually starting to take this seriously. If twitter are telling the truth and 99% of the tweets are from idiots using their own details, you'd expect them to talk to (at a minimum) the majority of those abusers.

[Carl the Llama]

14 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

 

I know what it means I literally said it.

 

Personally I'd have expected the vast majority of this abuse to come from actual England based accounts though, considering it was England fans that felt let down.

 

Like I said, in the end it shouldn't matter where the abuse is coming from and I'm glad to see the police actually starting to take this seriously. If twitter are telling the truth and 99% of the tweets are from idiots using their own details, you'd expect them to talk to (at a minimum) the majority of those abusers.

It matters in the context that people have tried to minimise the local issue by blaming it all on foreign actors.  It also matters because if you know where it's coming from you can be more targeted in your approach to the problem.

[Innovindil]

4 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

It matters in the context that people have tried to minimise the local issue by blaming it all on foreign actors.  It also matters because if you know where it's coming from you can be more targeted in your approach to the problem.

I haven't seen a single person blame it all on foreign actors. Must have some dodgy ones in your social circles. 

[Carl the Llama]

Just now, Innovindil said:

I haven't seen a single person blame it all on foreign actors. Must have some dodgy ones in your social circles. 

Really?  You've not seen a single person say something along the lines of the tweets mostly being from outside the UK so what are you going to do?

[bovril]

14 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

I haven't seen a single person blame it all on foreign actors. 

This is a fib isn't it. 

[Innovindil]

31 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Really?  You've not seen a single person say something along the lines of the tweets mostly being from outside the UK so what are you going to do?

Oh, you mean the people pointing out that the police said the majority of the accounts they've tracked so far are outside of the UK?

 

Not quite sure how that equates to people blaming it ALL on foreign actors though.

 

17 minutes ago, bovril said:

This is a fib isn't it. 

Don't want to be "that guy", but I don't ever lie. 

[Carl the Llama]

11 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Oh, you mean the people pointing out that the police said the majority of the accounts they've tracked so far are outside of the UK?

 

Not quite sure how that equates to people blaming it ALL on foreign actors though.

Yes the reporting that got used as a bad faith defence against addressing the issue (see flanimal the other day), to make out that there is no problem here, it's the foreigns who are racist.  Even after that mural got defaced and people booed anti-racist gestures people thought they could use it as a get out of jail card.  Now twitter have revoked that card. 

 

Can we stop with the pedantry now?

[KFS]

4 hours ago, AKCJ said:

The whole "football twitter" scene is extremely toxic and needs to be seriously looked at.

 

Some of the stuff you see on there are at odds at the stuff you see and hear between rival supporters (on the whole).

 

I can log onto twitter and find myself in that rabbit hole where you see some properly, properly vile shit that people say to each other and about other footballers.

 

I'm not trying to say that football doesn't have a problem with racial abuse at football stadiums (what happened on Saturday goes to show that) but I genuinely do think there is a massive problem with online anonymity and the idea that people can freely abuse others with no repercussions. I have absolutely no doubt that those involved with abusing Ian Wright will lose their privilege to attend football games but I sincerely doubt that those abusing footballers regularly will suffer the same problem (not to say it never happens but generally it doesn't seem to).

 

Twitter, Instagram, Facebook etc has so much to answer for in my view. Their lackadaisical attitude is furthering the problem for me.

I once started a burner to call out some of these freaks and basically decided it wasn’t worth the hassle. It’s like a weird cult and every club has them, spewing shit just to get a rise out of people. 
 

If the club returned to days of posting on the OS only, I wouldn’t miss a thing. In fact can we lobby the club to do just that? 

[Innovindil]

11 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Yes the reporting that got used as a bad faith defence against addressing the issue (see flanimal the other day), to make out that there is no problem here, it's the foreigns who are racist.  Even after that mural got defaced and people booed anti-racist gestures people thought they could use it as a get out of jail card.  Now twitter have revoked that card. 

 

Can we stop with the pedantry now?

Not quite sure how twitter have revoked that card with the information they've provided (and the information they haven't). 

 

For all we know, their locational statistics may reflect exactly what the police have (so far) found.

 

And I don't think it's pedantic to point out someone blaming all foreigners =/= someone blaming some foreigners. Multiple times I've pointed out I'm not bothered where these scum are located they should all face punishment, but you seem somewhat tunnel visioned on pointing out there's racists in the UK. Just so the record is clear, I'm fully aware there are racists in the UK, and England, and even sadly in Leicester. To me, that shouldn't mean we dismiss, or diminish, the racism elsewhere.

[Carl the Llama]

4 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Not quite sure how twitter have revoked that card with the information they've provided (and the information they haven't). 

 

For all we know, their locational statistics may reflect exactly what the police have (so far) found.

 

And I don't think it's pedantic to point out someone blaming all foreigners =/= someone blaming some foreigners. Multiple times I've pointed out I'm not bothered where these scum are located they should all face punishment, but you seem somewhat tunnel visioned on pointing out there's racists in the UK. Just so the record is clear, I'm fully aware there are racists in the UK, and England, and even sadly in Leicester. To me, that shouldn't mean we dismiss, or diminish, the racism elsewhere.

It doesn't but on this very site the other day its existence elsewhere was being used to diminish the situation here so that's why it feels necessary to focus on it.  I'm not sure what you're trying to gain here.

[Innovindil]

1 minute ago, Carl the Llama said:

It doesn't but on this very site the other day its existence elsewhere was being used to diminish the situation here so that's why it feels necessary to focus on it.  I'm not sure what you're trying to gain here.

I'm not trying to gain anything. I am merely pointing out that the facts won't change just because you want to focus on what you want to focus on. I don't understand how a racist over "there" can be any better or worse than a racist over "here". They ALL need dealing with for the sake of EVERYONE. You diminishing other racists, to me, is equally as bad as whoever the "people" are you're talking about diminishing English racists.

 

Am I making sense? 

[Carl the Llama]

Just now, Innovindil said:

I'm not trying to gain anything. I am merely pointing out that the facts won't change just because you want to focus on what you want to focus on. I don't understand how a racist over "there" can be any better or worse than a racist over "here". They ALL need dealing with for the sake of EVERYONE. You diminishing other racists, to me, is equally as bad as whoever the "people" are you're talking about diminishing English racists.

 

Am I making sense? 

Not really.  I don't know why you think what I've said is diminishing other racists and we're now a far cry from your initial complaint.  You have a habit of jumping into these pedantic disagreements with me with no real end goal, maybe next time you get the impulse to be contrary just take a deep breath.  

[Innovindil]

7 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Not really.  I don't know why you think what I've said is diminishing other racists and we're now a far cry from your initial complaint.  You have a habit of jumping into these pedantic disagreements with me with no real end goal, maybe next time you get the impulse to be contrary just take a deep breath.  

Didn't you reply to my post? 

 

And I haven't been contrary, I've said English racists are bad. Just pointing out that whilst incomplete data might be enough for you to form a narrative, it's not enough for me. Certainly not enough to dismiss anyone pointing out that the majority of abuse could have come from outside the UK.

[Carl the Llama]

7 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Didn't you reply to my post? 

 

And I haven't been contrary, I've said English racists are bad. Just pointing out that whilst incomplete data might be enough for you to form a narrative, it's not enough for me. Certainly not enough to dismiss anyone pointing out that the majority of abuse could have come from outside the UK.

2 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

It means that if you were to list the number of offending posts by the country they came from, we would be top of the list and apparently by a significant margin.   It would be nice if they were less vague because you're right it doesn't necessarily mean >50% of all tweets, but it's still incredibly damning, especially given they're our own players.

I would even go a step further and clarify it almost certainly means it's not >50% from UK, but that was never the problem.  The problem is being the single largest nation source when people are trying to claim it's not such an issue here.

Edited 10 August 2021 by Carl the Llama