The Wilfried Ndidi 'experiment'

[FoxyLeon]

Am I the only one perplexed, at how Rodgers is trying to 'adapt' his game?

 

So often now, he's getting caught the wrong side of opponents, and not being in the right place to defend cut back crosses, because Rodgers seems to be playing him further forwards.

It started the season before last, and now it's getting more and more frequent.

I was screaming at the TV tonight 'He's doing it again!'.....As once more Ndidi was pushing ahead of Tielemans into midfield.

 

The man should be our deepest midfielder at all times.

I get that we all want him to be a bit more 'progressive' with the ball, but his defensive work is suffering now, because he's too often ahead of Tielemans.

 

He's one of the best in this league, at protecting the back 4.

Tonight, as with other games during Rodger's reign, he's being made to look far worse than he is, because he's getting caught out defensively, trying to get too far forward.

 

Ndidi's defensive stats show, he's our 'Makelele'.....

Makelele would not have been asked to get ahead of Tielemans like Ndidi is being asked too, not by a good manager, anyway. 

[Strokes]

It’s futile screaming at the TV mate, they can’t hear you as there isn’t a mic on them.

[StanSP]

Tielemans drops deep to get on the ball and dictate play from there, trying to break the lines of opposition with more precise and incisive passing. Ndidi doesn't have that capability but is able to help win the ball back anywhere on the pitch. 

 

West Ham nullified both threats today in any case by letting our CBs have the ball and letting Antonio, Soucek, Rice, Bowen, Benrahma all sit on the halfway line while our defenders racked up passing stats. 

 

I don't think it's rocket science and not sure why you're so perplexed that Tielemans sometimes drops deeper. I thought it's fairly straightforward what the plan is. I don't see Ndidi's game being changed so much? If anything Ndidi's passing has improved considerably since he moved here. His advanced position today only looked bad because of a lazy control by Vardy which meant at the transition of play we were already on the back foot and West Ham were savvy enough to pounce upon it with speed and break on us easily. 

[FoxyLeon]

6 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Tielemans drops deep to get on the ball and dictate play from there, trying to break the lines of opposition with more precise and incisive passing. Ndidi doesn't have that capability but is able to help win the ball back anywhere on the pitch. 

 

West Ham nullified both threats today in any case by letting our CBs have the ball and letting Antonio, Soucek, Rice, Bowen, Benrahma all sit on the halfway line while our defenders racked up passing stats. 

 

I don't think it's rocket science and not sure why you're so perplexed that Tielemans sometimes drops deeper. I thought it's fairly straightforward what the plan is. I don't see Ndidi's game being changed so much? If anything Ndidi's passing has improved considerably since he moved here. His advanced position today only looked bad because of a lazy control by Vardy which meant at the transition of play we were already on the back foot and West Ham were savvy enough to pounce upon it with speed and break on us easily. 

 

It isn't about just today.

It's the fact it's progressively becoming a problem.

 

Rodgers has got the current equivalent of Makelele in his side, and he's constantly getting caught ahead of Tielemans.

 

I fully understand having a better player on the ball drop deeper...Man City do it all the time.

But I never see Rodri/Fernandinho constantly being ahead of the ball than De Bruyne/Gundogan etc.

[VLC86]

Loads to be pissed off about tonight but this is a weird one. Wilf has improved massively under Brendan, the bloke couldn’t pass 2 years ago.

[Strokes]

5 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

Loads to be pissed off about tonight but this is a weird one. Wilf has improved massively under Brendan, the bloke couldn’t pass 2 years ago.

He is nearly ready to fill in on the right wing IMO.

[WinslowFox]

He’s no Richie Wellens

[FoxyLeon]

7 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

Loads to be pissed off about tonight but this is a weird one. Wilf has improved massively under Brendan, the bloke couldn’t pass 2 years ago.

 

If that is true, why is Ndidi less trusted to play out the back than before?

 

He's the most important player in our team, but our defending is becoming less effective the more Tielemans takes up his room defensively. 

 

 

No coincidence to me our defensive record is getting worse, the more Ndidi is no longer being used as a single holding midfielder.

[VLC86]

5 minutes ago, FoxyLeon said:

 

If that is true, why is Ndidi less trusted to play out the back than before?

 

He's the most important player in our team, but our defending is becoming less effective the more Tielemans takes up his room defensively. 

 

 

No coincidence to me our defensive record is getting worse, the more Ndidi is no longer being used as a single holding midfielder.

I’d suggest the defensive frailties owe more to our back 4 being makeshift than what you are saying.

[Kierzz]

1 hour ago, FoxyLeon said:

Am I the only one perplexed, at how Rodgers is trying to 'adapt' his game?

 

So often now, he's getting caught the wrong side of opponents, and not being in the right place to defend cut back crosses, because Rodgers seems to be playing him further forwards.

It started the season before last, and now it's getting more and more frequent.

I was screaming at the TV tonight 'He's doing it again!'.....As once more Ndidi was pushing ahead of Tielemans into midfield.

 

The man should be our deepest midfielder at all times.

I get that we all want him to be a bit more 'progressive' with the ball, but his defensive work is suffering now, because he's too often ahead of Tielemans.

 

He's one of the best in this league, at protecting the back 4.

Tonight, as with other games during Rodger's reign, he's being made to look far worse than he is, because he's getting caught out defensively, trying to get too far forward.

 

Ndidi's defensive stats show, he's our 'Makelele'.....

Makelele would not have been asked to get ahead of Tielemans like Ndidi is being asked too, not by a good manager, anyway.

Rodgers allows Ndidi more freedom to press the ball as he is more mobile than tielesman and great at covering the ground. 

 

A few of our goals last year came from Ndidi turning over the ball high up the pitch and then us scoring in the transition stage.

 

I think it's great and adds another dimension to his game.

 

I would like to see him start at CB next game with Soumare in midfield. Then we can change it back later by bring on Vestergaard 

[HankMarvin]

 

1 hour ago, FoxyLeon said:

Am I the only one perplexed, at how Rodgers is trying to 'adapt' his game?

 

So often now, he's getting caught the wrong side of opponents, and not being in the right place to defend cut back crosses, because Rodgers seems to be playing him further forwards.

It started the season before last, and now it's getting more and more frequent.

I was screaming at the TV tonight 'He's doing it again!'.....As once more Ndidi was pushing ahead of Tielemans into midfield.

 

The man should be our deepest midfielder at all times.

I get that we all want him to be a bit more 'progressive' with the ball, but his defensive work is suffering now, because he's too often ahead of Tielemans.

 

He's one of the best in this league, at protecting the back 4.

Tonight, as with other games during Rodger's reign, he's being made to look far worse than he is, because he's getting caught out defensively, trying to get too far forward.

 

Ndidi's defensive stats show, he's our 'Makelele'.....

Makelele would not have been asked to get ahead of Tielemans like Ndidi is being asked too, not by a good manager, anyway. 

hope he doesn’t have a season like last year, where he misses 13 games and still makes the top 4 tacklers in the league.

averaging over 2 interceptions a game.

One goal and 4 assists.

[FoxyLeon]

13 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

I’d suggest the defensive frailties owe more to our back 4 being makeshift than what you are saying.

 

Our defensive frailties are due to Ndidi not being used to just shield the back 4.

 

Our collapse, when he was out injured, showed that too.

As well as our performances when he gets moved to CB.

[FoxyLeon]

2 minutes ago, HankMarvin said:

 

hope he doesn’t have a season like last year, where he misses 13 games and still makes the top 4 tacklers in the league.

averaging over 2 interceptions a game.

One goal and 4 assists.

 

If you think i'm questioning his ability and importance, you've completely misinterpreted my point.

 

He's indispensable to this team.

But Rodgers is making us defensively weaker, by moving him out of his area of most effectiveness. 

[jmono84]

Ndidi was shocking tonight.

 

He was constantly caught on the wrong side when defending and looked well off the pace tracking back.

 

The ball was bouncing off his touch all game long when we was trying to pass it about.

 

He offered very little in both an attacking and worryingly a defensive sense.

[FoxyLeon]

Are people seriously telling me, they can't see the stupidity of Rodger's decision, to have Ndidi even on just one occasion, let alone multiple, be ahead of Tielemans on the pitch, when we've got so many defenders out?

 

Sure, when Evans/Fofana are back there, maybe the experience of Bertrand too, let Ndidi progress up the field a bit more.

But please give the completely inexperienced back 4 a chance man, let Ndidi just sit in the pocket in front, that we know he's best at, and actually provide us with some cover.

[FoxyLeon]

1 minute ago, jmono84 said:

Ndidi was shocking tonight.

 

He was constantly caught on the wrong side when defending and looked well off the pace tracking back.

 

The ball was bouncing off his touch all game long when we was trying to pass it about.

 

He offered very little in both an attacking and worryingly a defensive sense.

 

I'm glad someone saw the same thing I did!

I'm not even heavily blaming Wilf.

 

But we've got the closest thing the current PL has, to a Claude Makelele, and Rodgers is trying to turn him into some kind of completely ineffective box to box midfielder.

We look worse going forward and defensively, by giving him too much responsibility to progress with the ball.

[jmono84]

4 minutes ago, FoxyLeon said:

Are people seriously telling me, they can't see the stupidity of Rodger's decision, to have Ndidi even on just one occasion, let alone multiple, be ahead of Tielemans on the pitch, when we've got so many defenders out?

 

Sure, when Evans/Fofana are back there, maybe the experience of Bertrand too, let Ndidi progress up the field a bit more.

But please give the completely inexperienced back 4 a chance man, let Ndidi just sit in the pocket in front, that we know he's best at, and actually provide us with some cover.

I think you’re right. I thought we played much better and looked far better balanced when in a 4-1-4-1 formation where Wilf was holding and giving simply passes to Tielemans and Madders who were ahead of him.

 

God we were a good team then with Tielemans and Maddison playing cm together.

[FoxyLeon]

3 minutes ago, jmono84 said:

I think you’re right. I thought we played much better and looked far better balanced when in a 4-1-4-1 formation where Wilf was holding and giving simply passes to Tielemans and Madders who were ahead of him.

 

God we were a good team then with Tielemans and Maddison playing cm together.

 

It's so odd.

 

Whereas now, Tielemans seems to be holding hands with Ndidi and Maddison holding hands with Vardy.

Two 8's is how Rodgers has always liked to play....Now he plays with a 10, and it's clearly not working.

 

Can people not remember how poor Ndidi looked under Puel when Mendy was taking up his space?

Tielemans is doing the exact same now.

[Pliskin]

Ordinarily Wilf is fine, but he’s had a shocker since the back end of last season, he looked like a duck out of water last night, Rice and Antonio bullied him, and I think it got to him a bit, he’s not used to being manhandled….

 

Last night was a bit like watching 1990’s big show manhandle Ray Mesterio…. 

[deanolegend1989]

We lost 4-1 and got run ragged, of course no one had a great game, but seriously I’d like to hear a player who played better than him in our team?

He was our best player! Barring maybe Ricardo who I thought did fine.

 

I thought our front 4 were absolutely garbage, like seriously 2/10 at best!
Thomas and Amartey are about as limited as you can get and we’re the only 2 changes in the team that started:

- Our best ever result in our history 9-0

- Our best ever winning run of 8.

 

They are both very poor and not the level we need to be pushing the top echelons of this league.

As much as I rate Soyuncu, he was shocking unfortunately too.

 

Wilf won some tackles and tracked back well and did alright in tough circumstances. Of course he got bullied more than he normally does by one of the best CFs in the league when it comes to physicality, but he was arguably one of our best players.

 

Cant believe people watch that game and think he’s the problem out of those 11 who played, it’s baffling.
I can only think, people’s expectations are so high of him(and rightly so) that they notice when he’s not at his best , rather than Amartey or Perez for example that they are seen to have ‘decent games’ when they manage to get through not making a mistake despite being useless.. 

[car1os]

Ndidi was essentially man marked by Antonio when he was off the ball - this was a clever ploy by Moyes as it nullified his ability to shield the back 4. We’ll learn a lot from this game

[Mark]

1 hour ago, FoxyLeon said:

Are people seriously telling me, they can't see the stupidity of Rodger's decision, to have Ndidi even on just one occasion, let alone multiple, be ahead of Tielemans on the pitch

I think it’s partly because he’s become obsessed with a back 3, I know it looked like a back four on paper but in possession last night we had the back 3 in Thomas Soyuncu and Amartey and they just passed it between themselves for most of the first half. Tielemans had to drop right back to get a foot on the ball leaving Ndidi ahead of him, then we when failed to get anywhere and often gave it away we were countered and Ndidi wasn’t where he used to be. It was quite worrying how inept we looked.

 

As predicted Fofanas ability to start attacking moves is a huge loss.

[Daggers]

1 hour ago, jmono84 said:

Ndidi was shocking tonight.

 

He was constantly caught on the wrong side when defending and looked well off the pace tracking back.

 

The ball was bouncing off his touch all game long when we was trying to pass it about.

 

He offered very little in both an attacking and worryingly a defensive sense.

He was only regularly beaten off the ball by Antonio - who was playing a blinder. Ndidi’s second and third challenges were good, and his passing was better than everyone else on the pitch (not saying much there, I know). Out of a team shitshow, Ndidi wasn’t the worst.

[Fox92]

7 hours ago, HankMarvin said:

 

hope he doesn’t have a season like last year, where he misses 13 games and still makes the top 4 tacklers in the league.

averaging over 2 interceptions a game.

One goal and 4 assists.

Sorry but stats like this mean fvck all.

 

"Most tackles". Is that even a good thing? Just shows how much we didn't have the ball surely.

 

For me, Fabinho is the best defensive midfeidler in the league but not even on that list. Probably because he doesn't need to make as many tackles as players who play for the likes of Southampton and Wolves.

[StanSP]

1 minute ago, Fox92 said:

Most tackles". Is that even a good thing? Just shows how much we didn't have the ball surely.

But also shows how well we are at winning it back by having someone like him in the team?