Ukraine

[Dunge]

5 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

I think it may well drag on as ‘the west’ is really weakening Russia by keeping things ‘ticking over’. And that ultimately maybe what the West wants.  Someone mentioned missiles and Planes ..  they are in the pipeline (longer range HIMARS and ATACAMS)  ..  and they could make a massive difference ..   blowing the shit out of Crimea will really piss off the Russian populace ..  and who knows what that may lead to.  
 

With regards to the nuclear option that is extremely unlikely to happen ..  it doesn’t fit Putins agenda of going down in history as the best leader they ever had and reclaimed all that territory the nasty west stole. Nah you’ll be fine Mac so come out from under that bed and take that saucepan you’ve had on your head back to the kitchen .. 

Personally I’ve always thought you looked good in that saucepan, @leicsmac.

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

I think it may well drag on as ‘the west’ is really weakening Russia by keeping things ‘ticking over’. And that ultimately maybe what the West wants.  Someone mentioned missiles and Planes ..  they are in the pipeline (longer range HIMARS and ATACAMS)  ..  and they could make a massive difference ..   blowing the shit out of Crimea will really piss off the Russian populace ..  and who knows what that may lead to.  
 

With regards to the nuclear option that is extremely unlikely to happen ..  it doesn’t fit Putins agenda of going down in history as the best leader they ever had and reclaimed all that territory the nasty west stole. Nah you’ll be fine Mac so come out from under that bed and take that saucepan you’ve had on your head back to the kitchen .. 

 

Agree that we'll be fine...just so long as Putin doesn't end up with a situation where there's no possibility of reclaiming "their" land and the choice is a straight dichotomy between death and humiliation or the big red button. Which could happen if Russian and NATO forces begin a barney. So better for that not to begin.

[MPH]

1 hour ago, Countryfox said:

I think it may well drag on as ‘the west’ is really weakening Russia by keeping things ‘ticking over’. And that ultimately maybe what the West wants.  Someone mentioned missiles and Planes ..  they are in the pipeline (longer range HIMARS and ATACAMS)  ..  and they could make a massive difference ..   blowing the shit out of Crimea will really piss off the Russian populace ..  and who knows what that may lead to.  
 

With regards to the nuclear option that is extremely unlikely to happen ..  it doesn’t fit Putins agenda of going down in history as the best leader they ever had and reclaimed all that territory the nasty west stole. Nah you’ll be fine Mac so come out from under that bed and take that saucepan you’ve had on your head back to the kitchen .. 

 

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

 

Agree that we'll be fine...just so long as Putin doesn't end up with a situation where there's no possibility of reclaiming "their" land and the choice is a straight dichotomy between death and humiliation or the big red button. Which could happen if Russian and NATO forces begin a barney. So better for that not to begin.

 

 

in fairness to @leicsmac's concerns, The Russian regime has gone on record as saying a future without Russia is no future at all and its right to be concerned about that.

 

So in other words we cant defeat them too convincingly, only a little bit  . Or better still, hope this all drags on long enough for them to consider the cons of staying outweigh the pros...

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

 

 

in fairness to @leicsmac's concerns, The Russian regime has gone on record as saying a future without Russia is no future at all and its right to be concerned about that.

 

So in other words we cant defeat them too convincingly, only a little bit  . Or better still, hope this all drags on long enough for them to consider the cons of staying outweigh the pros...

And to add to this, what we know about the Russian nuclear release authority is little but one thing that is explicitly stated (and has been mentioned on this thread before is) "use [...] when under attack by conventional weaponry and the survival of the state is threatened".

[MPH]

7 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

And to add to this, what we know about the Russian nuclear release authority is little but one thing that is explicitly stated (and has been mentioned on this thread before is) "use [...] when under attack by conventional weaponry and the survival of the state is threatened".

 

 

And the think to take note about this is " what do Russia consider to be their state?"

 

 

We all know that the next step of the supposed  wantaway 4 areas is a declaration of independence. and im absolutely sure that they will then ' vote' to join Russia,.so they would eventually be considered part of the state...

 

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

 

And the think to take note about this is " what do Russia consider to be their state?"

 

 

We all know that the next step of the supposed  wantaway 4 areas is a declaration of independence. and im absolutely sure that they will then ' vote' to join Russia,.so they would eventually be considered part of the state...

 

A sane person would define such as the actual legislative, executive and judicial mechanics of government based in their capital city, rather than a small piece of one's territory... but as you say, who knows with this situation?

[BKLFox]

Well it's a good job that financial support still coming from US & the UK

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67724357

[leicsmac]

10 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

Well it's a good job that financial support still coming from US & the UK

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67724357

Not entirely sure about the US support considering one side of the aisle there is seemingly willing to let Putin win in the name their "border reforms" not becoming policy.

[Lionator]

I reckon that Zaluzhny guy is gonna try and overthrow Zelenskyy, either that or the pre Zelenskyy president will come back with Klitschko.

[MPH]

Looks like Russia went on a bit of a rampage today, purposefully targeting civilian infrastructure. I can only assume this is a response to another ship in the Red Sea fleet being destroyed a couple of days ago..

 

Noting the Russia has damaged homes, schools, hospitals, a shopping centre, a metro station and energy infrastructure this morning, she adds the strikes have killed and injured civilians in "almost every region of the country".

[Countryfox]

1 hour ago, MPH said:

Looks like Russia went on a bit of a rampage today, purposefully targeting civilian infrastructure. I can only assume this is a response to another ship in the Red Sea fleet being destroyed a couple of days ago..

 

Noting the Russia has damaged homes, schools, hospitals, a shopping centre, a metro station and energy infrastructure this morning, she adds the strikes have killed and injured civilians in "almost every region of the country".

That’s definitely the reason.  I can just imagine the scene  ..   “Kill as many as you can !! ..  men women children!! ..  fire loads and loads of missiles !!! ..  that’ll teach em !! …. grrrrr !!!”  said Putin between the third and fourth courses of his evening meal when told one of his boats was on fire. “Right ..  now pass me some more caviar” 

[MPH]

29 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

That’s definitely the reason.  I can just imagine the scene  ..   “Kill as many as you can !! ..  men women children!! ..  fire loads and loads of missiles !!! ..  that’ll teach em !! …. grrrrr !!!”  said Putin between the third and fourth courses of his evening meal when told one of his boats was on fire. “Right ..  now pass me some more caviar” 

 

at the start of the war Russia had 12 troops carriers also used for carrying large quantities of munitions for restock and supply. Now they only have 6. 20% of the Black Sea fleet now destroyed. I like that part of this war.

[Lionator]

Why are Ukraine bombing civilian targets in Russian cities? What will that achieve?

[leicsmac]

24 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Why are Ukraine bombing civilian targets in Russian cities? What will that achieve?

Satisfaction through vengeance. That's about it, really - it has no strategic benefit.

[Lionator]

5 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Satisfaction through vengeance. That's about it, really - it has no strategic benefit.

I wonder if they’re trying to tempt russia into a bigger escalation to try and get more western support? 

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, Lionator said:

I wonder if they’re trying to tempt russia into a bigger escalation to try and get more western support? 

It's possible but that's a rather dangerous game to play.

[Zear0]

I guess it is to try and reduce attacks on their own territory, like yesterday, by demonstrating they can undertake similar retaliation.

[kenny]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

Why are Ukraine bombing civilian targets in Russian cities? What will that achieve?

I don't think they are. Russia has reported that they shot down a load of missiles and the debris landed on civilian areas.

 

There are reports of explosions at microchip factories. So I suspect the are aiming at factories that support th war effort which will inevitably employ civilians and also be near to populated areas.

[WigstonWanderer]

Once one side ignores the “rules”  it becomes a race to the bottom, and only a matter of time.

[MPH]

 

im not a conspiracy theorist at all, but I’m very surprised at the idea that Ukraine attacked Bolgorod. If im not mistaken, this is the region that came out in large numbers in support of the Wagner ‘uprising’ against Russian control, it has a large number of Ukrainians living there and public opinion is against Russian involvement in Ukraine. 

 

 

It would be a very very odd target for them to choose.

 

 

Much better explanation is shot down missiles hitting civilian areas.. OR Russia up to their old tricks again.

Edited 1 January 2024 by MPH

[Lionator]

Seems like Putin is gearing up to invade the baltics next, which are in NATO. Complaining that Russian speakers are being oppressed there. Nuclear Armageddon in the next 10 years I'd imagine. 

[Zear0]

29 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Seems like Putin is gearing up to invade the baltics next, which are in NATO. Complaining that Russian speakers are being oppressed there. Nuclear Armageddon in the next 10 years I'd imagine. 

Just waiting until November for Donald to get in and pull out of NATO. "Fun" times ahead. 

[leicsmac]

Not that anyone can know what's going on inside the mans head, but does Putin really think attacking a NATO member has any chance of a net positive outcome for him and his nation?

 

I guess events in November 2024 in the US will have a large part to play there, yes.

[westernpark]

6 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

Just waiting until November for Donald to get in and pull out of NATO. "Fun" times ahead. 

This is why anyone who supports Trump, even theoretically from a European country, is being a bit stupid. 

[westernpark]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

Not that anyone can know what's going on inside the mans head, but does Putin really think attacking a NATO member has any chance of a net positive outcome for him and his nation?

 

I guess events in November 2024 in the US will have a large part to play there, yes.

I believe he wants to cause issues for NATO countries, border skirmishes and so on but this could be amplified with Trump in the White House. The plans leaked in BILD are worrying to read but I would imagine such scenarios and domino events are planned for all the time. 
This is why it is so important we keep funding Ukraine.