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Sampson

Ukraine

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5 hours ago, Dirkster the Fox said:

Blinken and Co were in Kiev on the very same day the market was hit. Some might say it was a  Ukrainian stunt to keep the pressure on the US for the $$$$ flow???

 

X is full of comments/Videos confirming the rocket(s) came from the direction (North West)  where Ukraine were already well known to be firing at Russian positions. (Rockets don’t do 180 degree turns). The local people and video evidence have confirmed all this.

 

Firing rockets at your own people is a rather cynical policy and the biggest red flag (it was likely a false flag) was the instant, unquestioned coverage across western media it was the Russians who did it. Zelenski made an announcement saying as such within just 15 minutes of it happening.

 

So fast ….???? 🧐

 

Such instant blame tactics in our media ring big alarm bells with me, but fortunately alternative media often finds the truth, or certainly the most likely explanation. There’s nothing wrong in trying to find the truth, even if it’s not what you want to hear 🤷🏻‍♂️


 

im a little bit confused by this reply. I’m not sure what you are trying to say…

 

are you thinking that I was saying the Ukrainians fired upon themselves? I absolutely was not saying this, btw..

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1 hour ago, MPH said:


 

im a little bit confused by this reply. I’m not sure what you are trying to say…

 

are you thinking that I was saying the Ukrainians fired upon themselves? I absolutely was not saying this, btw..

I wasn't saying you were implying this.  I am saying what I've seen online confirms very strongly the theory that the Ukrainians fired this on themselves (In fairness I think me messages made this clear).

 

I very pro Ukrainian German journalist (I've posted his tweet above), working in the town/area posted a comment on X, saying as much as he dare say (without being called names), implying this to be the case.

 

X is full of all the video clips showing the reaction of the people and reflections on cars confirming it was fired from the Ukrainian side (North West area).

 

I'm also saying you have to be very careful and at times untrusting of our media and Ukraine with their instant blame Russia narrative, as in this case its looks a rather different story in reality.  Equally, they had professional photographers taking dramatic photos, just a minute or 2 after the strike, posted online, all a bit of a coincidence, maybe, maybe not?.

 

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43 minutes ago, Dirkster the Fox said:

I wasn't saying you were implying this.  I am saying what I've seen online confirms very strongly the theory that the Ukrainians fired this on themselves (In fairness I think me messages made this clear).

 

I very pro Ukrainian German journalist (I've posted his tweet above), working in the town/area posted a comment on X, saying as much as he dare say (without being called names), implying this to be the case.

 

X is full of all the video clips showing the reaction of the people and reflections on cars confirming it was fired from the Ukrainian side (North West area).

 

I'm also saying you have to be very careful and at times untrusting of our media and Ukraine with their instant blame Russia narrative, as in this case its looks a rather different story in reality.  Equally, they had professional photographers taking dramatic photos, just a minute or 2 after the strike, posted online, all a bit of a coincidence, maybe, maybe not?.

 

 
 

Fortunately for Ukraine, Russia have such a deplorable record of targeting civilian infrastructure that Ukraine have absolutely no need to damage Russias reputation- they seem to be  very good at doing this themselves.


Some  drone attacks on Russian targets around Moscow have been undertaken from within Russia.. but that doesn’t mean  it was the Russians attacking themselves .. special ops are alive and kicking on both sides of this war. So, in short no one is confirming or providing evidence it was fired by Ukrainians  and there isn’t any logical reason why they would.   I would always recommend looking for independent reporting  for your answers. 
 

as for the  professional photographers… I took some photos of my 2 year old in the garden with my iPhone and I’ve had people messaging me telling me I should do wedding photos. It’s amazing what an iPhone can do and there’s even better cameras out there that the average person can get in their mobile than the iPhones.. I wouldn’t read too much into that part at all.. it’s all a conspiracy theory that doesn’t hold up, I’m afraid..

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1 hour ago, MPH said:

 
 

Fortunately for Ukraine, Russia have such a deplorable record of targeting civilian infrastructure that Ukraine have absolutely no need to damage Russias reputation- they seem to be  very good at doing this themselves.


Some  drone attacks on Russian targets around Moscow have been undertaken from within Russia.. but that doesn’t mean  it was the Russians attacking themselves .. special ops are alive and kicking on both sides of this war. So, in short no one is confirming or providing evidence it was fired by Ukrainians  and there isn’t any logical reason why they would.   I would always recommend looking for independent reporting  for your answers. 
 

as for the  professional photographers… I took some photos of my 2 year old in the garden with my iPhone and I’ve had people messaging me telling me I should do wedding photos. It’s amazing what an iPhone can do and there’s even better cameras out there that the average person can get in their mobile than the iPhones.. I wouldn’t read too much into that part at all.. it’s all a conspiracy theory that doesn’t hold up, I’m afraid..

 

I absolutely agree....In fairness, I'm following the conflict but in completely different news circles to our own MSM.  I don't trust our media because as a nation we're simply too invested in our support for Ukraine and as such will always tilt the events in a one sided way.  Unless I want to exist in an echo chamber, much better to find the reality of things amongst more neutral sources or certainly ones which try and get to the truth of what's happened. 👍

 

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2 hours ago, LCFCCHRIS said:

In my experience with Russian apologists, this either means terrible low quality websites that can’t be trusted as far as you can throw them or Twitter threads about someone revealing the “truth”, again on Twitter, with little to no credible sources. 
Also sometimes a state news channel that is clearly aligned with Russia, the one thing that they claim to be avoiding (non neutrality).
 

The only thing that really matters and is fac

Russia attacked Ukraine, made a massive arse of themselves and now they’re fighting an unnecessary war that will drain their ability to fight and prosper for the next decade if not more. 

Look, I made a mistake commenting in here.  I apologies to all offended.

 

I thought possibly 20+ months on it was maybe a place which could deal with the nuances of this conflict, but your message back and the fact several have all liked it means in reality its still an echo chamber.

 

If people can't handle debate without automatically discounting anything whatsoever against the accepted "narrative" then unfortunately that's the very definition of an echo chamber.

 

I'm sorry to tell you this, but you are wrong about alternative media and it being trusted and credible.  War is very hard to cut through the fog, but some of the (proven by events or evidence) best places for my news are indeed spread across people, platforms and locations across the world which include several very good Ukrainian and yes indeed Russian sources.  Equally, Estonian, Greek, UK, Bulgarian, Singapore, Indian, Thai, lots from the US and so on.  Many people are out there discussing and following this conflict not through the prism of one side EVIL, the other side pure GOOD, but trying to understand the history, when, why it started and sifting through articles, reports, pictures, video footage unbiased about what's really happening.  I do take solace that there is an increasing number of fellow Brits like me who are now find themselves in a similar place, prepared to accept much is going on with this conflict which we haven't been told here in the UK and the reasons why.  

 

You may mock me, imply I'm things, but in reality I'm just comfortable to be open minded and dare I say it, not just following the "acceptable" side of a debate.  

 

So I bid farewell in this thread, leave you guys to it and I'll just stick to the footy stuff on FT

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5 minutes ago, Dirkster the Fox said:

Look, I made a mistake commenting in here.  I apologies to all offended.

 

I thought possibly 20+ months on it was maybe a place which could deal with the nuances of this conflict, but your message back and the fact several have all liked it means in reality its still an echo chamber.

 

If people can't handle debate without automatically discounting anything whatsoever against the accepted "narrative" then unfortunately that's the very definition of an echo chamber.

 

I'm sorry to tell you this, but you are wrong about alternative media and it being trusted and credible.  War is very hard to cut through the fog, but some of the (proven by events or evidence) best places for my news are indeed spread across people, platforms and locations across the world which include several very good Ukrainian and yes indeed Russian sources.  Equally, Estonian, Greek, UK, Bulgarian, Singapore, Indian, Thai, lots from the US and so on.  Many people are out there discussing and following this conflict not through the prism of one side EVIL, the other side pure GOOD, but trying to understand the history, when, why it started and sifting through articles, reports, pictures, video footage unbiased about what's really happening.  I do take solace that there is an increasing number of fellow Brits like me who are now find themselves in a similar place, prepared to accept much is going on with this conflict which we haven't been told here in the UK and the reasons why.  

 

You may mock me, imply I'm things, but in reality I'm just comfortable to be open minded and dare I say it, not just following the "acceptable" side of a debate.  

 

So I bid farewell in this thread, leave you guys to it and I'll just stick to the footy stuff on FT

As someone who was banned from this topic at one time fully agreed. I prefer to let reality speak for itself now.

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40 minutes ago, Dirkster the Fox said:

Look, I made a mistake commenting in here.  I apologies to all offended.

 

I thought possibly 20+ months on it was maybe a place which could deal with the nuances of this conflict, but your message back and the fact several have all liked it means in reality its still an echo chamber.

 

If people can't handle debate without automatically discounting anything whatsoever against the accepted "narrative" then unfortunately that's the very definition of an echo chamber.

 

I'm sorry to tell you this, but you are wrong about alternative media and it being trusted and credible.  War is very hard to cut through the fog, but some of the (proven by events or evidence) best places for my news are indeed spread across people, platforms and locations across the world which include several very good Ukrainian and yes indeed Russian sources.  Equally, Estonian, Greek, UK, Bulgarian, Singapore, Indian, Thai, lots from the US and so on.  Many people are out there discussing and following this conflict not through the prism of one side EVIL, the other side pure GOOD, but trying to understand the history, when, why it started and sifting through articles, reports, pictures, video footage unbiased about what's really happening.  I do take solace that there is an increasing number of fellow Brits like me who are now find themselves in a similar place, prepared to accept much is going on with this conflict which we haven't been told here in the UK and the reasons why.  

 

You may mock me, imply I'm things, but in reality I'm just comfortable to be open minded and dare I say it, not just following the "acceptable" side of a debate.  

 

So I bid farewell in this thread, leave you guys to it and I'll just stick to the footy stuff on FT

You’re entitled to your opinion and even to claim Ukraine bombed itself but everyone else who uses foxestalk also are entitled to disagree. In fact that should be expected on your part considering most people in the country generally support Ukraine.

Edited by LCFCCHRIS
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16 minutes ago, LCFCCHRIS said:

You’re claiming Ukraine purposefully bombed itself in a thread where most are supportive of Ukraine’s defence of its own territory. 
 

What did you expect? Everyone to suddenly change their profile pictures to Russian flags?

I claimed the evidence suggested as much yes. I showed a VERY Pro-Ukrainian journalist, living in the town involved, who clearly wanted to suggest as much, but through the sort of treatment I would get on here a few messages down the line, felt he couldn't actually say it himself. So yes it's an echo chamber and I'll leave you all to it with your Ukrainian flags.

 

 

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In other news, I notice following the sham local elections in Russian occupied Ukraine, voting in the presence of armed Russian soldiers, The Council of Europe, condemned the polling in the "illegally annexed Ukrainian territories" as a "flagrant violation of international law, which Russia continues to disregard"

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7 minutes ago, SpacedX said:

Coming from someone that repeatedly posted SouthFront under the deluded and gullible impression that it was impartial and objective. lol 

 

The 'reality' is, that this was an illegal invasion on behalf of the Russian Federation. A declaration of war, masquerading as a "special military operation" that has gone spectacularly tits up and was supposed to be over in a week. A gross bungled miscalculation by the Kremlin that has cost the Russian people dearly and has inflicted a tragic and  futile loss of life on both sides, with dire consequences for global stability and international economics. Despite this, one has to laugh following the acceptance of Finland into NATO and the current integration of Sweden. 

 

I notice you and your ilk were conspicuous in your absence after the Bucha massacre. Was that similarly a false flag staged by Ukraine? 

 

I thought you said you were going? 

 

8 minutes ago, SpacedX said:

Coming from someone that repeatedly posted SouthFront under the deluded and gullible impression that it was impartial and objective. lol 

 

The 'reality' is, that this was an illegal invasion on behalf of the Russian Federation. A declaration of war, masquerading as a "special military operation" that has gone spectacularly tits up and was supposed to be over in a week. A gross bungled miscalculation by the Kremlin that has cost the Russian people dearly and has inflicted a tragic and  futile loss of life on both sides, with dire consequences for global stability and international economics. Despite this, one has to laugh following the acceptance of Finland into NATO and the current integration of Sweden. 

 

I notice you and your ilk were conspicuous in your absence after the Bucha massacre. Was that similarly a false flag staged by Ukraine? 

 

I thought you said you were going? 

Steady on SpacedX, I didn't realise the Sturmabteilung were back in town 🤣

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47 minutes ago, LCFCCHRIS said:

No point in engaging with individuals who don’t recognise verified facts (not you).

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56 minutes ago, SpacedX said:

Source?

You know that he’ll have one. It’ll be a pack of lies and propaganda designed to distract from war crimes, civilian massacres and one of the clearest examples of there actually being a “good” side in a war in modern history, but he’ll have one.

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9 minutes ago, Dunge said:

You know that he’ll have one. It’ll be a pack of lies and propaganda designed to distract from war crimes, civilian massacres and one of the clearest examples of there actually being a “good” side in a war in modern history, but he’ll have one.

Or a post on Twitter/X from a reputable "Ukrainian journalist".

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On 07/09/2023 at 23:29, Dirkster the Fox said:

image.thumb.png.f04d0196b360c1da49457ad43734ab46.png

I would be interested to know if Roepcke has actually been to the area to investigate and interview locals to establish if there's any further evidence to support which direction of the missile came in from? Surely if he was based in this area, as you suggest, he would've been out to the area to investigate further ie interview locals who witnessed the incoming missile. Are there any other videos out there, which capture the incoming missile or interviews with locals who witnessed the direction the mssile came in from? I couldn't see anything in his recent posts or articles stating he was in this area of Ukraine. 
 

One questionable point he uses to conclude that the missile came from the North west direction is that the reflection of a small objecton the car roofs, is proof that the missile came from that the Northwest direction. Many have commented (some with very detailed explanations) that its just as likely that the object reflected on the car roof was coming from the opposite direction rather than from behind the camara as he's suggesting. Whether Roepcke or any of the other twitter commenters are experts in physics or forensic video analysis is something I dont know. 
 

One point he has subsequently acknowledged in a follow up tweet (see below), is the more advanced missiles used by both Russia and Ukraine can be programmed to take an indirect flight path to their target. They do this to avoid the strongest points in the defending air defence system. 

image.png.c43196f620cb758d09f7e5bf582584c6.png

Ropckes reputation took a hit last summer during the Kherson counter offensive for using very inaccurate geolations of Ukraines force movements to report breakthroughs in the south that never happened. This wasn't a one off either, which is why his credibility diminished with some followers of Russia's invasion of Ukraine due to instances of shoddy research and reporting. 

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