Cost of living crisis.

[Daggers]

So, before they’ve even started, next to no one has any confidence in them to tackle any of the pressing issues. Brilliant. 
 

 

[Dames]

1 minute ago, Foxdiamond said:

You know most of us are just trying to get by. There have been strikes, pressure groups, donations to charity, bringing our children up to be kind, gentle and loving. Been working since we were 15 or 16. You say we all took a I'm alright Jack attitude.  Can you be sure that none of your generation will be the same. Millions of us did not vote for any of your examples. I get angry with how some people think and act but that goes for young and old. Did you care about the underpaid care worker looking after the wartime generation in their old age. You will find as you get very old (if you survive) that old people and those that look after them become largely invisible. You have no idea what struggles people have had to endure to make ends meet.  

I've been a Labour party member for the past 10 years and i've voted for them for the past 12 when I was legally allowed to vote. I've always thought of the most worst off person I know and voted in their best interests rather than my own. 

 

My generation are thick as mince, most of them think that 5g towers cause covid and the vaccine is a microchip and Bill Gates is the devil. I've not got much hope for the majority of them but hopefully enough of us start the process of cleaning up the mess the world is in so that the younger generations might have some benefit. 

 

I couldn't really care about the care workers looking after the war vets because I was still a kid but ever since i've been able to vote i've voted in their best interests. 

 

[Foxdiamond]

6 minutes ago, Dames said:

I don't know why you're getting so worked up. If the shoe doesn't fit, it doesn't fit.

 

I've made clear in my posts that its not every single person in that generation is bad or follows the same trend but are you seriously telling me that people like Trump, Farage, Johnson, Xi, Putin, Musk, Bezos, Ted Cruz, MTG can be reasoned with to change  their ways and start putting people before profit and grift? Absolutely never going to happen so once they are gone, yes the world will be glad to see the back of them and their supporters/enablers. 

 

My generation only has a high carbon lifestyle because the previous generation has sought at every opportunity to prioritise profit over sustainability. We could be better but we are only working with the tools we are allowed to use and any attempt to change is quickly shut down by those who are richer and see it as a threat to shareholder profits. The technology for electric cars has been around for decades but was successfully kept down for years to prioritise the profits of big oil companies. 

 

Either way its not the whole generation that's bad but the vast majority of people in charge of the policies and the world are now from that generation and they are not making it any better and neither are their supporters who have a higher majority of support from the same generation. 

Glad you have modified your view that not the whole generation is bad from we are all in the I'm alright jack camp

[Foxdiamond]

6 minutes ago, Dames said:

I've been a Labour party member for the past 10 years and i've voted for them for the past 12 when I was legally allowed to vote. I've always thought of the most worst off person I know and voted in their best interests rather than my own. 

 

My generation are thick as mince, most of them think that 5g towers cause covid and the vaccine is a microchip and Bill Gates is the devil. I've not got much hope for the majority of them but hopefully enough of us start the process of cleaning up the mess the world is in so that the younger generations might have some benefit. 

 

I couldn't really care about the care workers looking after the war vets because I was still a kid but ever since i've been able to vote i've voted in their best interests. 

 

This boomer voted the same way and also a Labour member

[Dames]

11 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

Glad you have modified your view that not the whole generation is bad from we are all in the I'm alright jack camp

I still think a good 60-70% of the generation do fit into that camp.

 

4 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

This boomer voted the same way and also a Labour member

You're part of the 30-40%.

 

I think my generation will be more 50-50 and the generations after that have had even less than both our generations will radically shift - if they have a world to inherit. 

[grobyfox1990]

The old people bashing is a bit harsh. The ones I get annoyed at are those who’ve benefited  from free education, increasing services in a post industrial boom, secure jobs for life, fat pensions and ever increasing house prices and think they have earned all this, it’s not almost 100% down to the luck of when and where you were born. ‘I’ve been working as a printing pressman since I was 12!!! I deserve to be a millionaire!!’ Yeh mate try being born in the Congo in 1997 with exactly the same skill set and let’s see..

[Foxdiamond]

2 minutes ago, Dames said:

I still think a good 60-70% of the generation do fit into that camp.

 

You're part of the 30-40%.

 

I think my generation will be more 50-50 and the generations after that have had even less than both our generations will radically shift - if they have a world to inherit. 

I suspect you got such a reaction as you were almost saying we are all the same. You know like when a football fan does something stupid and all fans are then condemned as hooligans.

[Daggers]

12 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

I suspect you got such a reaction as you were almost saying we are all the same. You know like when a football fan does something stupid and all fans are then condemned as hooligans.

But face facts, old people are wrong’uns. It’s been documented…

 

 

Edited 16 August 2022 by Daggers

[yorkie1999]

38 minutes ago, Dames said:

I don't know why people are getting so offended by it. Trump, Johnson, Farage, Putin, Bezos, Musk, Xi all come from the same generation and are all bad for the world in their own ways. 

 

Not to mention every CEO or Chairman of every company sucking the world dry and exploiting their workers will also be in this cohort too. Its people from that generation stopping progress on renewables because they want to get richer off fossil fuels, its people from that generation denying millions of Americans free healthcare, its people from that generation that have run Britain down so badly that barely any of our essential services are working, its people from that generation that have brought property on the cheap and ensured its remained a closed market for millions, its people from that generation that believe the greatest fight of our time is pronouns and not rampant exploitation.

 

I could go on and i've said in previous posts its not every single person from that generation that are like these people but as I've said the majority of the problems we have right now are down to the choices the people from this generation are making and those that come after will have to spend decades cleaning up after them. What I will say is the boomer generation did not do enough to stand up for what's right, a lot of these issues have been coming down the track for years but instead you all took an 'i'm alright jack attitude'.

 

i don't think that anyone's getting offended, more so that most people realise the blame game, something that i have personally experienced to great extent  having two 20 year olds who seem to have the ability to blame everyone else except themselves, doesn't actually achieve anything

[HighPeakFox]

1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

About time we condemned the people of Derbyshire, too.

 

I have a mate who now lives in High Peak. A lifelong leftist, campaigner for social/housing rights, provider of I.T. services to the impoverished, manager of local bands.

 

But we must ignore such specifics. We must generalize. In general, the people of Derbyshire - and High Peak, in particular - are reactionary Tory voters. I bet the world will be glad when it sees the back of the people of High Peak. 

You're being rather naughty here, and you fine well know it  

[Alf Bentley]

32 minutes ago, Dames said:

I don't know why people are getting so offended by it. Trump, Johnson, Farage, Putin, Bezos, Musk, Xi all come from the same generation and are all bad for the world in their own ways.

 

Also from that generation are/were: Biden, Blair, Brown, Corbyn, Obama, Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen, Germaine Greer, Frank Skinner, Ian Hislop, John Lennon, Peter Tatchell, Salman Rushdie, Pearson, Ranieri.....

 

There have other generations that produced a lot of bad leaders: Hitler, Mussolini, Franco & Stalin? Does that mean we have to generalize and condemn the generation as a whole, including Churchill, Attlee, Bevan and the troops that gave their lives fighting Hitler and co?

 

32 minutes ago, Dames said:

 

Not to mention every CEO or Chairman of every company sucking the world dry and exploiting their workers will also be in this cohort too. Its people from that generation stopping progress on renewables because they want to get richer off fossil fuels, its people from that generation denying millions of Americans free healthcare, its people from that generation that have run Britain down so badly that barely any of our essential services are working, its people from that generation that have brought property on the cheap and ensured its remained a closed market for millions, its people from that generation that believe the greatest fight of our time is pronouns and not rampant exploitation.

 

That's more like it! You're starting to look at these problems being caused by the nature of "advanced", globalised capitalism, its owners and managers, and how that system interlinks with democratic politics and society, corrupting the former and damaging the latter. How and in whose interests society operates depends massively on balances of power within society - and sometimes, regardless of generation, a small minority will control a large proportion of wealth and power - and will use/abuse political, economic and social systems to serve their own short-term interests. That's not even "people from that generation" (though I'm glad to see you slightly moderate your generalizations based on generation), it's a few with a particular relationship to wealth and power. It's often been the case in history - 19th Century, for starters - and has become more prevalent again due to globalized/globalizing economies, wealth, communications, finance and influence etc.

 

 Of course, those "people from that generation" getting "richer off fossil fuels" and "denying free healthcare" also includes a majority who are just getting by and trying to keep on an even keel, as well as a significant minority that are being DENIED healthcare, social care etc. Granted, there are major ways in which the distortion of the system to (mainly) benefit the wealthy few is causing more harm to younger generations - climate change and housing being the obvious examples. But the collapsing NHS and social care don't do older people any favours - and issues like insecure employment and ridiculous housing costs have affected people of my age (60), too, even if some have accrued valuable assets and rental income from a broken system.

 

32 minutes ago, Dames said:

 

I could go on and i've said in previous posts its not every single person from that generation that are like these people but as I've said the majority of the problems we have right now are down to the choices the people from this generation are making and those that come after will have to spend decades cleaning up after them. What I will say is the boomer generation did not do enough to stand up for what's right, a lot of these issues have been coming down the track for years but instead you all took an 'i'm alright jack attitude'.

 

....down to the choices made by certain people from this generation, a minority who possess real power, wealth and influence - NOT the majority.

 

Older people might tend to be reactionary now, but weren't when they were younger. Perhaps you'll become a reactionary when you're older? 

 

Maybe I and people like me could have done more to stand up for what's right. I've always voted, been active in politics and trade unions in the past, have been involved in campaigns and demonstrations - though not so much in recent years. But most people have just enough time to earn a living, support a family, have a bit of fun etc. The fact that they've not succeeded in changing the world does not mean that they all took an "I'm alright, Jack attitude". I have a daughter, for Christ's sake, do you seriously think that I want her (or, to a lesser extent, anybody) to inherit a heating climate with all associated risks, a dysfunctional housing market, shite public services, insecure employment, potential social conflict etc?

 

Even some of the harmful attitudes (e.g. older people wanting high property prices and low inheritance tax) are down, at least partly, to a misguided desire to help younger generations of their family.

 

Often a failure to achieve transformational change is down not just to "I'm alright Jack attitudes" but to a lack of time and opportunity, a feeling of powerlessness - and indeed a genuine lack of power and influence, when dealing with global capitalism and  associated financial systems.

 

Let's hope your generation and following generations will succeed in changing the world in a way that my generation failed to do - but it's no easy task. Will you deserve to see yourself and your generation condemned as "I'm alright Jackers" if you fail to exert power over global capitalism and vested interests that have massive wealth, power and influence?

 

4 minutes ago, Dames said:

I don't know why you're getting so worked up. If the shoe doesn't fit, it doesn't fit.

 

I've made clear in my posts that its not every single person in that generation is bad or follows the same trend but are you seriously telling me that people like Trump, Farage, Johnson, Xi, Putin, Musk, Bezos, Ted Cruz, MTG can be reasoned with to change  their ways and start putting people before profit and grift? Absolutely never going to happen so once they are gone, yes the world will be glad to see the back of them and their supporters/enablers. 

 

My generation only has a high carbon lifestyle because the previous generation has sought at every opportunity to prioritise profit over sustainability. We could be better but we are only working with the tools we are allowed to use and any attempt to change is quickly shut down by those who are richer and see it as a threat to shareholder profits. The technology for electric cars has been around for decades but was successfully kept down for years to prioritise the profits of big oil companies. 

 

Either way its not the whole generation that's bad but the vast majority of people in charge of the policies and the world are now from that generation and they are not making it any better and neither are their supporters who have a higher majority of support from the same generation. 

 

Not "getting worked up", just arguing a case.

 

That's a bit of a cop-out to say that your generation only has a high-carbon lifestyle because of the actions of previous generations. Quite apart from being mature adults with an opportunity to tackle power just as I have, nobody obliges you to have a car or imported gadgets or foreign holiday flights.

 

As for the older generation disproportionately supporting reactionary policies, that's true, but that same generation did the opposite when it was young. It's down to age (for whatever combination of reasons), not generation - and that process of becoming more reactionary in old age is a process that we should all try to understand if we want to change it.......and avoid your generation becoming the reactionaries in a few decades.

[leicsmac]

9 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Also from that generation are/were: Biden, Blair, Brown, Corbyn, Obama, Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen, Germaine Greer, Frank Skinner, Ian Hislop, John Lennon, Peter Tatchell, Salman Rushdie, Pearson, Ranieri.....

 

There have other generations that produced a lot of bad leaders: Hitler, Mussolini, Franco & Stalin? Does that mean we have to generalize and condemn the generation as a whole, including Churchill, Attlee, Bevan and the troops that gave their lives fighting Hitler and co?

 

 

That's more like it! You're starting to look at these problems being caused by the nature of "advanced", globalised capitalism, its owners and managers, and how that system interlinks with democratic politics and society, corrupting the former and damaging the latter. How and in whose interests society operates depends massively on balances of power within society - and sometimes, regardless of generation, a small minority will control a large proportion of wealth and power - and will use/abuse political, economic and social systems to serve their own short-term interests. That's not even "people from that generation" (though I'm glad to see you slightly moderate your generalizations based on generation), it's a few with a particular relationship to wealth and power. It's often been the case in history - 19th Century, for starters - and has become more prevalent again due to globalized/globalizing economies, wealth, communications, finance and influence etc.

 

 Of course, those "people from that generation" getting "richer off fossil fuels" and "denying free healthcare" also includes a majority who are just getting by and trying to keep on an even keel, as well as a significant minority that are being DENIED healthcare, social care etc. Granted, there are major ways in which the distortion of the system to (mainly) benefit the wealthy few is causing more harm to younger generations - climate change and housing being the obvious examples. But the collapsing NHS and social care don't do older people any favours - and issues like insecure employment and ridiculous housing costs have affected people of my age (60), too, even if some have accrued valuable assets and rental income from a broken system.

 

 

....down to the choices made by certain people from this generation, a minority who possess real power, wealth and influence - NOT the majority.

 

Older people might tend to be reactionary now, but weren't when they were younger. Perhaps you'll become a reactionary when you're older? 

 

Maybe I and people like me could have done more to stand up for what's right. I've always voted, been active in politics and trade unions in the past, have been involved in campaigns and demonstrations - though not so much in recent years. But most people have just enough time to earn a living, support a family, have a bit of fun etc. The fact that they've not succeeded in changing the world does not mean that they all took an "I'm alright, Jack attitude". I have a daughter, for Christ's sake, do you seriously think that I want her (or, to a lesser extent, anybody) to inherit a heating climate with all associated risks, a dysfunctional housing market, shite public services, insecure employment, potential social conflict etc?

 

Even some of the harmful attitudes (e.g. older people wanting high property prices and low inheritance tax) are down, at least partly, to a misguided desire to help younger generations of their family.

 

Often a failure to achieve transformational change is down not just to "I'm alright Jack attitudes" but to a lack of time and opportunity, a feeling of powerlessness - and indeed a genuine lack of power and influence, when dealing with global capitalism and  associated financial systems.

 

Let's hope your generation and following generations will succeed in changing the world in a way that my generation failed to do - but it's no easy task. Will you deserve to see yourself and your generation condemned as "I'm alright Jackers" if you fail to exert power over global capitalism and vested interests that have massive wealth, power and influence?

 

 

Not "getting worked up", just arguing a case.

 

That's a bit of a cop-out to say that your generation only has a high-carbon lifestyle because of the actions of previous generations. Quite apart from being mature adults with an opportunity to tackle power just as I have, nobody obliges you to have a car or imported gadgets or foreign holiday flights.

 

As for the older generation disproportionately supporting reactionary policies, that's true, but that same generation did the opposite when it was young. It's down to age (for whatever combination of reasons), not generation - and that process of becoming more reactionary in old age is a process that we should all try to understand if we want to change it.......and avoid your generation becoming the reactionaries in a few decades.

This has been a fantastic discussion, I'm just going to chip in a little on the bolded.

 

I cannot overstate the importance of breaking that cycle of becoming more reactionary as people age. In a few decades time, that may well not just be a matter of morality, it may well be a matter of survival.

[HighPeakFox]

Becoming more reactionary as one gets older is a choice, not an excuse for being lazily more unpleasant. 

 

Also, age doesn't make you clever or wiser. As the old adage goes, there's no fool like an old fool. 

[urban.spaceman]

19 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Becoming more reactionary as one gets older is a choice

NO IT ****ING ISNT

[bovril]

Over 60s are the worst imo

[leicsmac]

42 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Becoming more reactionary as one gets older is a choice, not an excuse for being lazily more unpleasant. 

 

Also, age doesn't make you clever or wiser. As the old adage goes, there's no fool like an old fool. 

IMO practically all human behaviour (barring a few notable exceptions) is.

 

And evolutionary history doesn't tend to treat organisms that don't adapt to change very well.

[Alf Bentley]

15 minutes ago, bovril said:

Over 60s are the worst imo

 

Not as bad as people from Norfolk, imo. 

[Dames]

1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

Also from that generation are/were: Biden, Blair, Brown, Corbyn, Obama, Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen, Germaine Greer, Frank Skinner, Ian Hislop, John Lennon, Peter Tatchell, Salman Rushdie, Pearson, Ranieri.....

 

Only 3 of them were in positions to enact real change and all 3 of them allowed a right wing propaganda to fester under their leaderships which lead to their successors throwing out every last piece of good work that they had done.

 

1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

There have other generations that produced a lot of bad leaders: Hitler, Mussolini, Franco & Stalin? Does that mean we have to generalize and condemn the generation as a whole, including Churchill, Attlee, Bevan and the troops that gave their lives fighting Hitler and co?

With those leaders there were those that still opposed them. This generation had their issues too don't get me wrong but a lot of them died and they had to spend their best years rebuilding Europe. However there are a lot more Nazis in the age 40-65 bracket than there are in any other demographic. Just look at every single Tommy Robinson rally as an example.

 

1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

That's more like it! You're starting to look at these problems being caused by the nature of "advanced", globalised capitalism, its owners and managers, and how that system interlinks with democratic politics and society, corrupting the former and damaging the latter. How and in whose interests society operates depends massively on balances of power within society - and sometimes, regardless of generation, a small minority will control a large proportion of wealth and power - and will use/abuse political, economic and social systems to serve their own short-term interests. That's not even "people from that generation" (though I'm glad to see you slightly moderate your generalizations based on generation), it's a few with a particular relationship to wealth and power. It's often been the case in history - 19th Century, for starters - and has become more prevalent again due to globalized/globalizing economies, wealth, communications, finance and influence etc.

 

 Of course, those "people from that generation" getting "richer off fossil fuels" and "denying free healthcare" also includes a majority who are just getting by and trying to keep on an even keel, as well as a significant minority that are being DENIED healthcare, social care etc. Granted, there are major ways in which the distortion of the system to (mainly) benefit the wealthy few is causing more harm to younger generations - climate change and housing being the obvious examples. But the collapsing NHS and social care don't do older people any favours - and issues like insecure employment and ridiculous housing costs have affected people of my age (60), too, even if some have accrued valuable assets and rental income from a broken system.

I understand where you are coming from but the problems caused by capitalism have been known for decades yet the people that enable it have been voted for on a consistent basis for decades by people from a certain generation. All the polls and evidence back this up. People in retirement or approaching retirement have known for a long time how bad the social care system is and again they still vote against their own best interests due to propaganda and hubris.

 

1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

Let's hope your generation and following generations will succeed in changing the world in a way that my generation failed to do - but it's no easy task. Will you deserve to see yourself and your generation condemned as "I'm alright Jackers" if you fail to exert power over global capitalism and vested interests that have massive wealth, power and influence?

There is a good portion of my generation that will fall into this category because they got on the worst end of the gravy train just in time and my generation won't be looked back on favorably either because we either wallow in dispair (some of it merited some of it not) or like our forebears lick the boots of those that step on us. The generations that come after is where the real hope is and I hope to see it in my lifetime.

 

1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

That's a bit of a cop-out to say that your generation only has a high-carbon lifestyle because of the actions of previous generations. Quite apart from being mature adults with an opportunity to tackle power just as I have, nobody obliges you to have a car or imported gadgets or foreign holiday flights.

 You have a point but at the same time a lot has changed. Its not as easy to walk into a factory straight after secondary school and get a job with work opportunities right on the doorstep a lot of people have to go further afield for opportunity. As for imported gadgets who made the choice to outsource all manufacturing to China and South Asia? Not me it was done in the late 80's and early 90's before I was even born. How old are the people in charge of Samsung and Apple that produce products that are designed to degrade every 2 years? 

 

What age groups have made the choice to continually use fossil fuels rather than investing in renewables and in some cases actually blocking their progress?

 

1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

As for the older generation disproportionately supporting reactionary policies, that's true, but that same generation did the opposite when it was young. It's down to age (for whatever combination of reasons), not generation - and that process of becoming more reactionary in old age is a process that we should all try to understand if we want to change it.......and avoid your generation becoming the reactionaries in a few decades.

The process I feel is simple. Younger people are more radical its true and as they get older they seek to preserve what they have gained throughout their lives, this leads to them becoming more insular and inward looking (i.e. selfish) and more receptive to Conservative propaganda. They do know better but at the same time they deprive others of the same opportunity they had because of fairy tales about immigrants or lefties wanting to take everything they have.

 

It will happen less with the coming generations because we have less. The scales have tipped too far. In my lifetime alone the state retirement has gone from 63-67 and I've still got over 35 years left yet. I imagine that will continually shift over the years and i'll never get to retire. That will do a lot to curb the current pattern of shifting right as you get older.

[Foxdiamond]

9 minutes ago, Dames said:

Only 3 of them were in positions to enact real change and all 3 of them allowed a right wing propaganda to fester under their leaderships which lead to their successors throwing out every last piece of good work that they had done.

 

With those leaders there were those that still opposed them. This generation had their issues too don't get me wrong but a lot of them died and they had to spend their best years rebuilding Europe. However there are a lot more Nazis in the age 40-65 bracket than there are in any other demographic. Just look at every single Tommy Robinson rally as an example.

 

I understand where you are coming from but the problems caused by capitalism have been known for decades yet the people that enable it have been voted for on a consistent basis for decades by people from a certain generation. All the polls and evidence back this up. People in retirement or approaching retirement have known for a long time how bad the social care system is and again they still vote against their own best interests due to propaganda and hubris.

 

There is a good portion of my generation that will fall into this category because they got on the worst end of the gravy train just in time and my generation won't be looked back on favorably either because we either wallow in dispair (some of it merited some of it not) or like our forebears lick the boots of those that step on us. The generations that come after is where the real hope is and I hope to see it in my lifetime.

 

 You have a point but at the same time a lot has changed. Its not as easy to walk into a factory straight after secondary school and get a job with work opportunities right on the doorstep a lot of people have to go further afield for opportunity. As for imported gadgets who made the choice to outsource all manufacturing to China and South Asia? Not me it was done in the late 80's and early 90's before I was even born. How old are the people in charge of Samsung and Apple that produce products that are designed to degrade every 2 years? 

 

What age groups have made the choice to continually use fossil fuels rather than investing in renewables and in some cases actually blocking their progress?

 

The process I feel is simple. Younger people are more radical its true and as they get older they seek to preserve what they have gained throughout their lives, this leads to them becoming more insular and inward looking (i.e. selfish) and more receptive to Conservative propaganda. They do know better but at the same time they deprive others of the same opportunity they had because of fairy tales about immigrants or lefties wanting to take everything they have.

 

It will happen less with the coming generations because we have less. The scales have tipped too far. In my lifetime alone the state retirement has gone from 63-67 and I've still got over 35 years left yet. I imagine that will continually shift over the years and i'll never get to retire. That will do a lot to curb the current pattern of shifting right as you get older.

It is a bit easier to be radical when you have no dependents. As people go through life they have more responsibility. Bringing up their children then worrying about ageing parents while holding down a job. There are many people that do jobs that never pay that well. We can can't all be chiefs. I have never voted Tory as I believe they are mainly concerned with maintaining and keeping wealth for the elite at the expense of the working classes. The root of our problems in the UK can be traced to Thatcher in my view. Selling everything off to her Tory allies at knockdown prices. Selling off council housing as a one off bribe. Labour played into her hands as at the time they chose the wrong leader and were divided. This increased the split in the anti Tory vote. You only have to see what the situation in Scotland is. Lots of Labour seats lost to SNP means Labour will find it harder to defeat Tories in England. Unfortunately the right wing press had a big influence. Hopefully this will decrease as fewer buy newspapers. 

[Braunstone Support!]

I dont have the answer to help with the cost of living crisis directly, it will be tough financially for many. What I believe would help though is if everyone who can does something practical to help in their local area. Something like volunteering their time, and where possible, any spare funds to help with local projects. I would bet there are so many examples of people already doing this on this forum, perhaps we can share those activities and encourage a bit more  

 

For me, a friend started volunteering and that brought me into it where I now help less advantaged local kids build their skills and confidence, also looking to start a dads group etc. It does cost your time, it is a lot of effort but it does make a big difference. The council will also help with these initiatives, one such organisation is the "Children and Family Wellbeing Service" that covers the whole of Leicestershire and many other local charities would be glad of our help. Some examples of local initiatives that spring to mind:

• Extra kids clubs/football training/other activities for those who cant afford a day out at the moment
• Facilitate day centres for the elderly/poorly/vulnerable 
• Free barbeque/meals/events that provide something for those that need it
• Volunteer taxi service / other logistics help for those that need it
• Workshops to teach local people skills they need to repair/cook/make things/budget etc.
• Provide emotional support and mentoring for anyone struggling (young people, young parents, vulnerable etc.)
• Making available the use of any other facilities you may have access to provide additional local facilities/activities

I dont have the answers as to how to make these or other examples work but with the will they can be done by anyone. I had no idea how to go about it but after a few months I was out helping others alongside the council. It's not perfect this sort of thing but dont let perfection be the enemy of progress!

 

There are so many good people with a lot to offer at our club and the wider communities with skills they could help pass on that would benefit others no end. Before I started this I wasn't totally into the whole "be the change you wish to see" thing but if one more person does something good from this post, thats living proof.

[bovril]

1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Not as bad as people from Norfolk, imo. 

Well we gave the world Liz Truss so you may be right

[Alf Bentley]

56 minutes ago, Dames said:

Only 3 of them were in positions to enact real change and all 3 of them allowed a right wing propaganda to fester under their leaderships which lead to their successors throwing out every last piece of good work that they had done.

 

I presume the 3 you mean are Blair, Brown & Obama? I certainly have criticisms of Blair & Brown, including excessive caution in the face of vested & right-wing interests, but they also enacted real change that lasted (minimum wage, peace in N. Ireland) and other changes that had a lasting impact for a lot of people even if they're now being dismantled (major improvements in NHS, schools and early years support). I agree that they compromised too much, but some level of compromise is necessary if you want to win and retain the power to enact real change. It's a sign of how difficult this is that New Labour got kicked out over global issues - compromising excessively with George W over Iraq, then the impacts of the Global Financial Crash.

 

Corbyn compromised a lot less but the result was that he never gained the power to achieve anything - beyond facilitating Johnson's majority and disillusioning a generation whom he convinced that utopia was possible without compromise. There's also a strong argument that the likes of Greer, Tatchell, Lennon & Hislop have enacted some degree of change outside formal democratic politics. 

 

56 minutes ago, Dames said:

 

With those leaders there were those that still opposed them. This generation had their issues too don't get me wrong but a lot of them died and they had to spend their best years rebuilding Europe. However there are a lot more Nazis in the age 40-65 bracket than there are in any other demographic. Just look at every single Tommy Robinson rally as an example.

 

Every generation in turn has supporters and opponents - the impacts of that depend on much larger issues (e.g. WW2, the stage of capitalism, climate change).

 

I had a quick look at photos of Robinson rallies: plenty of 40-65-year-olds, but also plenty of young blokes: lots of white men. Indeed, Yaxley-Lennon himself was 27 when he formed the EDL and is only 39 now - more your current age than mine.

 

56 minutes ago, Dames said:

 

I understand where you are coming from but the problems caused by capitalism have been known for decades yet the people that enable it have been voted for on a consistent basis for decades by people from a certain generation. All the polls and evidence back this up. People in retirement or approaching retirement have known for a long time how bad the social care system is and again they still vote against their own best interests due to propaganda and hubris.

 

There is a good portion of my generation that will fall into this category because they got on the worst end of the gravy train just in time and my generation won't be looked back on favorably either because we either wallow in dispair (some of it merited some of it not) or like our forebears lick the boots of those that step on us. The generations that come after is where the real hope is and I hope to see it in my lifetime.

 

Again, it's not people of a particular generation, it's people of a particular age (as a generalization): maybe you'll be a reactionary when you're 75 as current 75-year-olds weren't reactionaries at your age.

 

I imagine some proper research has been done into why people move right as they age? Would make an interesting read as regards doing something to change that. You put it down to "propaganda and hubris" but I can't believe it's that simple.

 

As I've implied, I don't think everyone either gets on the gravy train saying "I'm alright, Jack" / licks the boots of the oppressor - or succeeds in transforming society. The majority of people of every generation get on with their own lives, often working hard to build a decent life, some of them doing a bit to try to change things, but very few having the ability to take on forces as great as global capital and its many routes to power and influence.

 

56 minutes ago, Dames said:

 

 You have a point but at the same time a lot has changed. Its not as easy to walk into a factory straight after secondary school and get a job with work opportunities right on the doorstep a lot of people have to go further afield for opportunity. As for imported gadgets who made the choice to outsource all manufacturing to China and South Asia? Not me it was done in the late 80's and early 90's before I was even born. How old are the people in charge of Samsung and Apple that produce products that are designed to degrade every 2 years? 

 

What age groups have made the choice to continually use fossil fuels rather than investing in renewables and in some cases actually blocking their progress?

 

When I first entered the labour market in the early 1980s, there were 4m unemployed and I had to move to London to find regular work.

 

As for who relocated manufacturing to Asia and who failed to invest in renewables, I suppose it was the vast power of globalizing capital and those who own it, manage it and serve its interests - a tiny minority, currently of my generation, previously of older generations - and in future of your generation. Surely we need to challenge the system and those who lead it, not one generation a few of whom happen to be managing it just now?

 

Fair play to you for being ready to question your own generation, though, and for looking further ahead, even if your conclusions are rather depressing.

 

56 minutes ago, Dames said:

 

The process I feel is simple. Younger people are more radical its true and as they get older they seek to preserve what they have gained throughout their lives, this leads to them becoming more insular and inward looking (i.e. selfish) and more receptive to Conservative propaganda. They do know better but at the same time they deprive others of the same opportunity they had because of fairy tales about immigrants or lefties wanting to take everything they have.

 

It will happen less with the coming generations because we have less. The scales have tipped too far. In my lifetime alone the state retirement has gone from 63-67 and I've still got over 35 years left yet. I imagine that will continually shift over the years and i'll never get to retire. That will do a lot to curb the current pattern of shifting right as you get older.

 

I wonder if your generation will be any more immune to the increased insularity of age? I hope so, but hard to say without understanding why people, as a generalization, become more reactionary and insular as they age.

 

You have some interesting theories in this last bit. Maybe a lack of self-interested benefits from the status quo means future generations won't become reactionary like previous generations. I hope you're right - a glimmer of optimism in the gloom, perhaps. But things could go in less beneficial directions, too: your generation or those that follow it might be the ones forming militias to shoot African migrants trying to come to Europe to avoid devastation caused by climate change to their food sources in Africa.....

 

On that cheerful note, I'm out of here before I piss off any more people than I've already alienated!  

[Daggers]

[Wymsey]

You know things are bad when hospital trusts are offering food banks for staff.

[kenny]

2 hours ago, Wymsey said:

You know things are bad when hospital trusts are offering food banks for staff.

6 trusts have set up food banks for anyone who wants to use them, not just for staff.

 

https://www.uhb.nhs.uk/get-involved/community/food-clothing-bank/

 

Some staff will feel the need to use them I am sure, but I doubt it's as widespread as the headlines suggest.