Also in the News - Part 2

[The People's Hero]

42 minutes ago, Captain... said:

Woke is not just kind and caring, it is largely about understanding of issues and trying to actively use better language. 

 

Virtue signalling = bad

Preaching = bad 

Cancel culture = bad

 

They are not woke, they are at best woke adjacent, being woke is about understanding social issues and looking at how your own language and behaviour can impact others and trying to be better yourself. Obviously there are those who take it to extremes and those that bang on about it constantly, like anything. That doesn't stop the principles being based in good intentions and kindness. I just find it so bizarre how these terms, like political correctness, or green get twisted into negatives when they should be a force for good.

Your definition of woke is positive and nice and would be agreeable to pretty much everybody. 
 

I would suggest the very large majority of people who describe themselves as ‘woke’ as more preachy, zealous and dogmatic however both in their blinkered beliefs and in the way they deal with other people. 
 

this is where the negative perception comes from. Your definition of woke is lovely but in the real world it’s not the way the word ‘woke’ is being used by people who consider themselves to be ‘woke’. 
 

 

[Captain...]

41 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

I suspect it's because the lines between 'good intentions and kindness' on the one hand, and authoritarian preaching/virtue-signalling on the other, are very blurred. Certainly on social media, many of those who are considered 'woke' tend to lean heavily towards being very preachy, smug and dogmatic. Your definition of woke is much more benign, but it doesn't really reflect the reality.

I would counter that social media doesn't reflect reality and most "woke" people are like me just trying to do and say the right thing and willing to learn from others on subjects they don't know about.

[bovril]

1 hour ago, Captain... said:

 

Ethnic minorities might have been a better example, that was the PC term for a while until that became offensive and now it is people of colour (which to me is just as problematic as coloured, but it's what's been settled on).

 

The point is about the evolution of language and how we react to it.

But we're talking solely about English here. Many languages don't have equivalents of the PC terms. Bulgarian for example still uses the term 'негър' which sounds awful to Anglo ears but there isn't really an equivalent of 'people of colour'. Are we to tell other nationalities what words of theirs they can use? 

 

Problematising of language like this really is an Anglo-Saxon thing. Even the term 'Anglo-Saxon' has different connotations in the US to the UK. Exhausting trying to keep up with it all. 

[ClaphamFox]

26 minutes ago, Captain... said:

I would counter that social media doesn't reflect reality and most "woke" people are like me just trying to do and say the right thing and willing to learn from others on subjects they don't know about.

Oh I couldn't agree more. I think it offers a deeply distorted view of reality. Unfortunately the media, and some political parties, seem to think it provides a window into the soul of the country. 

[Daggers]

2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

I remember his remarkable takedown of some never-do-well who called him out for a fight on the Leicester section of the forum.

 

It was brilliant, I think there was cream teas mentioned somewhere.

All disagreements should be settled with a pot of tea and a cream puff.

[leicsmac]

52 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

Oh I couldn't agree more. I think it offers a deeply distorted view of reality. Unfortunately the media, and some political parties, seem to think it provides a window into the soul of the country. 

However, its power to influence events at an everyday level is rather notable.

 

Perhaps that's why the media and those politicians treat it seriously and sometimes use it as a tool both for ethical and nefarious purposes.

[urban.spaceman]

 

[LestahGOAT]

Being "woke" usually just boils down to being a tolerant decent human being, which many people absolutely hate, hence branding said people "woke"

[The People's Hero]

24 minutes ago, LestahGOAT said:

Being "woke" usually just boils down to being a tolerant decent human being, which many people absolutely hate, hence branding said people "woke"

Found the person who has never been on any social media. 

[LestahGOAT]

3 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

Found the person who has never been on any social media. 

I hardly ever use social media and I dont feel like ive missed out by not using it either.

[Daggers]

39 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

 

 

[ClaphamFox]

Just now, LestahGOAT said:

I hardly ever use social media and I dont feel like ive missed out by not using it either.

A very wise decision. Good for you.

 

I think The People's Hero's point was that your rather blue-eyed interpretation of woke seemed to have come from somebody who doesn't regularly come across the worst excesses of self-styled woke people on twitter, etc. And you've confirmed that. My advice: continue to stay away. Nobody's life is improved one iota by spending more time on social media. 

[bovril]

Twitter can be very good. There are some very interesting accounts to follow on any subject. Facebook is probably more pleasant but quite boring. Never used TikTok and I don't really see the point of it.

[The People's Hero]

18 minutes ago, LestahGOAT said:

I hardly ever use social media and I dont feel like ive missed out by not using it either.

Very wise and no criticism from me, I think that’s great - but it also explains why you hold the view you do. 
 

I don’t really use social media either and to be honest I’m not sure why I waded in to this debate at all. 
 

👍

Edited 27 February 2023 by The People's Hero
Missed words as I’m getting old and I’m

[leicsmac]

"Woke" folks, even at their most extreme, are hardly the worst contributors on social media - whether from this matter only or otherwise - anyway.

[Scotch]

Has anyone been keeping up with the Marilyn Manson case? It's absolutely insane that these girls have seemingly set out to ruin this guy. 

[Captain...]

9 minutes ago, Scotch said:

Has anyone been keeping up with the Marilyn Manson case? It's absolutely insane that these girls have seemingly set out to ruin this guy. 

Not been following, but I'm aware of the Evan Rachel Wood allegations. What's the latest?

Edited 27 February 2023 by Captain...

[Babylon]

38 minutes ago, Captain... said:

Not been following, but I'm aware of the Evan Rachel Wood allegations. What's the latest?

One of the accusers saying she was "manipulated" into making the allegations about him by Wood. 

 

Beyond weird, I mean how exactly do you get manipulated into making the allegations if they weren't true?

[Babylon]

48 minutes ago, Scotch said:

Has anyone been keeping up with the Marilyn Manson case? It's absolutely insane that these girls have seemingly set out to ruin this guy. 

Or... maybe someone in it for the money, decided to take a better offer. Something stinks about it, but what side is rotten, who knows. 

[Scotch]

1 hour ago, Captain... said:

Not been following, but I'm aware of the Evan Rachel Wood allegations. What's the latest?

Well one of the girls who had a law suit against him, Ashley something or other, has recanted and spoke about how she was pressured by ERW and Illma Gore to go against him. We've known that they were out recruiting girls with a script and checklist to cooberate each others stories as we've saw the scripts left on an Ipad that Gore left with her sister (to set her up in my opinion) as girls who they tried to recruit have spoken out but this is the first witness who was actually a part of it. 

 

That with proof that they drafted a fake FBI letter to convince girls to join them (and win custody of her kid) its starting to look like a full blown conspiracy. 

[Daggers]

Also (not) in the news: The State of Hate report '23

[Jon the Hat]

9 hours ago, leicsmac said:

"Woke" folks, even at their most extreme, are hardly the worst contributors on social media - whether from this matter only or otherwise - anyway.

I assume you are right, there are some right racist homophobic nazi ***** on there I'm sure, fortunately I don't see them. Algorithms seem to show people content which supports their beliefs that the others side are the worst to get them engaging.

[Jon the Hat]

2 hours ago, Daggers said:

Also (not) in the news: The State of Hate report '23

- In 2022 alone, far-right activists visited accommodation housing migrants and asylum seekers at least 253 times, a 102% increase on 2021

This is ****ing appalling.  One thing to think we should do everything we can to discourage people coming across the channel on small boats (if only because of the drownings) but to actually hound people who are already here as individuals is the measure of these people.  

 

- A loose coalition of far-right activists and conspiracy theorists have led a vitriolic campaign against Drag Queen Story Hour (DQSH), a series of storytelling sessions for children

Yeah this on the other hand is bollox.  Kids do not need to see men dressed as some kind of imagined 70s hooker reading stories.  **** off.

 

- 61% of Muslim males had a positive view of Tate

There is some kind of awful irony in here I'm sure.

 

- Three quarters, 73%, think Britain is going in the wrong direction

Towards Labour?   Seriously though, who the **** are the other 27%?

[Daggers]

14 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

- A loose coalition of far-right activists and conspiracy theorists have led a vitriolic campaign against Drag Queen Story Hour (DQSH), a series of storytelling sessions for children

Yeah this on the other hand is bollox.  Kids do not need to see men dressed as some kind of imagined 70s hooker reading stories.  **** off.

-

I find your comment sad tbh, and I’m guessing you never went to a pantomime as a kid.

 

I’m not debating this so don’t expect further response.

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said:

I assume you are right, there are some right racist homophobic nazi ***** on there I'm sure, fortunately I don't see them. Algorithms seem to show people content which supports their beliefs that the others side are the worst to get them engaging.

Algorithms tend to give either that echo chamber or offer directly conflicting views in order to generate contributions, controversy and clicks, in my own experience. Both work in terms of generating engagement and therefore revenue, which is what it's all about.

 

On the general topic, my viewpoint is that in terms of deeds while the worst some "woke" activists have done have gotten some people "cancelled" in terms of losing careers or being hounded on social media, the worst their racist homophobic counterparts have done has ended up with people actually dead, sometimes directly at their hands. AFAIC that does make them worse, yes.