Will Alves

[Phenom]

7 hours ago, Chelmofox said:

Don't think the poster is really informed on what Alves / Braybrooke went through this year.  The majority of the season was for their physical recovery, and i am sure the mental side of having to deal with the layoff also had to be a consideration. They've then had to be reintroduced to light training the then back into the full training and being able to work with the squad. As you saw with Alves, he had a secondary injury after being reintroduced to the U21 which is something that is very common after returning from an ACL.

 

It would have been lovely to have seen a cameo or 2 from them, but their recovery was the most important thing. 

 

People can chuck many things at Enzo if they like, but this isn't one of them. Get them in early preseason and get then both ready and hungry to succeed. 

Are you okay with the lack of minutes with Nelson?

[Chelmofox]

1 hour ago, Phenom said:

Are you okay with the lack of minutes with Nelson?

Not massively, but he did get some decent games in. Didn't he pick up an injury though, and then we were pretty stacked in CD.

[Stadt]

Would we better off signing a winger/AM for a few million to play +/- 500 minutes or playing Alves in that time? 
 

In the long run it’s the latter every time. Man City (granted from a loftier position) ease in their earmarked 18-20 year olds, they don’t loan them out for 24 months first. 

[Pliskin]

Re lack of minutes, does it really matter? 
 

Kobbie Mainoo had no prior experience before becoming a regular….

 

Cole Palmer had no prior experience prior to becoming a regular.

 

Phil Foden had no prior experience before becoming a regular. 
 

There’s plenty more examples. If players have the ability, they will soon adapt to the pace and nature of the pro game. As some have said, the fearlessness of young players can often help them adapt sooner. There’s no harm in trying, I think one of our biggest problems has been waiting too long, Brendan used to wait far to long before throwing players in, bar Thomas….. 

 

Given our current situation, imagine if Nelson, Alves and Braybrook all took off next season? It is a risk worth taking in my opinion, we’ve built this training ground to facilitate the production of youth players, we can’t be afraid to use it. 

[coolhandfox]

27 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Re lack of minutes, does it really matter? 
 

Kobbie Mainoo had no prior experience before becoming a regular….

 

Cole Palmer had no prior experience prior to becoming a regular.

 

Phil Foden had no prior experience before becoming a regular. 
 

There’s plenty more examples. If players have the ability, they will soon adapt to the pace and nature of the pro game. As some have said, the fearlessness of young players can often help them adapt sooner. There’s no harm in trying, I think one of our biggest problems has been waiting too long, Brendan used to wait far to long before throwing players in, bar Thomas….. 

 

Given our current situation, imagine if Nelson, Alves and Braybrook all took off next season? It is a risk worth taking in my opinion, we’ve built this training ground to facilitate the production of youth players, we can’t be afraid to use it. 

Foden and Palmer don't fit what you have described.

 

Foden was slowly introduced over 3 season period in the PL, playing 43 minutes, 327 minutes, 892 minutes, and bloodied in the cup before becoming a regular feature in the side.

 

Similar with Palmer, he's played 2 season in the PL playing 121 minutes followed by 358 minutes, similar in the cup competition for Man City, before becoming a regular at Chelsea.

 

Edited 9 June 2024 by coolhandfox

[coolhandfox]

1 hour ago, Stadt said:

Would we better off signing a winger/AM for a few million to play +/- 500 minutes or playing Alves in that time? 
 

In the long run it’s the latter every time. Man City (granted from a loftier position) ease in their earmarked 18-20 year olds, they don’t loan them out for 24 months first. 

100% if we actually do that, if Alves, Braybrooke and Nelson can get 500 on the PL and play in every cup game, it would be massive.

 

My worry is that get nowhere near that.

 

 

[Pliskin]

1 hour ago, coolhandfox said:

Foden and Palmer don't fit what you have described.

 

Foden was slowly introduced over 3 season period in the PL, playing 43 minutes, 327 minutes, 892 minutes, and bloodied in the cup before becoming a regular feature in the side.

 

Similar with Palmer, he's played 2 season in the PL playing 121 minutes followed by 358 minutes, similar in the cup competition for Man City, before becoming a regular at Chelsea.

 

But they still didn’t have to be shipped out on loan. 
 

The fear is there’s a lot of unknown about academy players. The facts are, we’re probably going to have to rely on them. And I’m not concerned one bit…. I think Nelson, Alves and Braybrook are all good enough to play in our squad regularly. I rate all three more than McAteer and he’s done alright. 

[LCFCJohn]

The whole season is an equivalent of a free hit so just stick Alves, Nelson and maybe Braybrooke in and let them learn on the job!

[honeybradger]

6 minutes ago, LCFCJohn said:

The whole season is an equivalent of a free hit so just stick Alves, Nelson and maybe Braybrooke in and let them learn on the job!

Sadly our owners/board probably dont see it that way. I have a feeling we will go for short term success rather than long term, the issue being that the players we can attract to do well in the short term probably wont be of very high quality and will be harder to shift than academy graduates.

[davieG]

2 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

100% if we actually do that, if Alves, Braybrooke and Nelson can get 500 on the PL and play in every cup game, it would be massive.

 

My worry is that get nowhere near that.

 

 

THere's a balance to be struck of course, if they end up playing minutes to save the legs of whoever is the starter then the minutes and experienced gained, even sitting on the bench and mixing with and listening to players whose livelihood depends on their performances is well worth it. 

 

I'm sure Alves has learned a lot just by being part of the team these last few games.

[Out Foxed]

Those lads shouldn't be going anywhere. The only way you're complying with the regs these days is by having multiple academy players in the first team.

[LCFCJohn]

1 hour ago, honeybradger said:

Sadly our owners/board probably dont see it that way. I have a feeling we will go for short term success rather than long term, the issue being that the players we can attract to do well in the short term probably wont be of very high quality and will be harder to shift than academy graduates.

It’s infuriating. We are in this mess because of spending on shit and not having a future thinking plan. If they double down on that rather than being logical and thinking with the next few years in mind, we will end up in a much worse position.

[Leeds Fox]

1 hour ago, LCFCJohn said:

The whole season is an equivalent of a free hit so just stick Alves, Nelson and maybe Braybrooke in and let them learn on the job!

This isn’t a free hit. Our clubs future hinges on this season.

 

Promotion was essential, if we get relegated (which I know is likely), we could be in serious bother.

 

This is the season that matters. I for one, for this season, don’t care if we stink the place out and stay up.

 

Genuinely don’t care it’s it’s Cooper, Ole or Allerdyce, we just need to stay up. I want someone competent, but I want us to stay up at all costs.

[coolhandfox]

1 hour ago, Pliskin said:

But they still didn’t have to be shipped out on loan. 
 

The fear is there’s a lot of unknown about academy players. The facts are, we’re probably going to have to rely on them. And I’m not concerned one bit…. I think Nelson, Alves and Braybrook are all good enough to play in our squad regularly. I rate all three more than McAteer and he’s done alright. 

But also took 3 seasons to become regulars, people are talking about the likes of Alves and Braybrooke having a impact this season which is highly unlikely.

 

Whatever option we choose they need minutes.

[Pliskin]

6 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

But also took 3 seasons to become regulars, people are talking about the likes of Alves and Braybrooke having a impact this season which is highly unlikely.

 

Whatever option we choose they need minutes.

You’re not wrong at all. Perhaps it will be a case of easing them in, Nelson probably not so much. But during the pre season I’d like to see them get a lot of minutes, that’s the best time to give them a good run out! 

[LCFCJohn]

44 minutes ago, Leeds Fox said:

This isn’t a free hit. Our clubs future hinges on this season.

 

Promotion was essential, if we get relegated (which I know is likely), we could be in serious bother.

 

This is the season that matters. I for one, for this season, don’t care if we stink the place out and stay up.

 

Genuinely don’t care it’s it’s Cooper, Ole or Allerdyce, we just need to stay up. I want someone competent, but I want us to stay up at all costs.

The clubs future hinges on getting the finances back under control. 
 

I’m not talking managers here but the fact the likes of Longstaff being linked for £15mill (likely for many years in a large wages) or Vestergaard being resigned when we could blood the likes of Alves and Nelson.

[coolhandfox]

1 hour ago, Pliskin said:

You’re not wrong at all. Perhaps it will be a case of easing them in, Nelson probably not so much. But during the pre season I’d like to see them get a lot of minutes, that’s the best time to give them a good run out! 

If they aren't going out on loan I want them starting every cup game.

 

We need a manager who willing to blood them.

 

[SafewayFox]

1 hour ago, coolhandfox said:

But also took 3 seasons to become regulars, people are talking about the likes of Alves and Braybrooke having a impact this season which is highly unlikely.

 

Whatever option we choose they need minutes.

I guess the big difference that hasn’t been mentioned in the comparison between Man City’s and our current situation is our financial difficulties.

 

Almost an added element of needs must and embrace our academy players as important squad players….Braybrooke as an example surely wouldn’t offer any less than a homesick/lazy Bouba surely?

[coolhandfox]

28 minutes ago, SafewayFox said:

I guess the big difference that hasn’t been mentioned in the comparison between Man City’s and our current situation is our financial difficulties.

 

Almost an added element of needs must and embrace our academy players as important squad players….Braybrooke as an example surely wouldn’t offer any less than a homesick/lazy Bouba surely?

Ones just played 28 games for Sevilla who finished mid table in La Liga and played 4 Champions League games .

 

The other has just play 6 games for our under 23 after a season out with an ACL.

 

Braybrooke could be the future but at the moment he's a kid with 16 senior minutes under his belt.

[iancognito]

23 hours ago, Phenom said:

Are you okay with the lack of minutes with Nelson?

If you think about it even Conor Coady couldn't split up our regular pairing for most of the season but there were 2 or 3 games when Vestergaard was out that he went straight to Nelson instead of Coady. Not sure there's much else Nelson coulkd have done to have got more minutes when they were solid for the first 2/3 of the year. Probably would have been the same for Alves, he'd have been in that perma-bench group with Praet, Yunus and McAteer.

[honeybradger]

20 minutes ago, iancognito said:

If you think about it even Conor Coady couldn't split up our regular pairing for most of the season but there were 2 or 3 games when Vestergaard was out that he went straight to Nelson instead of Coady. Not sure there's much else Nelson coulkd have done to have got more minutes when they were solid for the first 2/3 of the year. Probably would have been the same for Alves, he'd have been in that perma-bench group with Praet, Yunus and McAteer.

I think we needed some higher quality rotation for Mavididi over the season. You have to consider that Mcateer only didnt play for a while because he was injured, otherwise he had regular minutes. I think with Alves fit he could have gotten Mcateer's minutes and more.

[Dr The Singh]

3 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

I think we needed some higher quality rotation for Mavididi over the season. You have to consider that Mcateer only didnt play for a while because he was injured, otherwise he had regular minutes. I think with Alves fit he could have gotten Mcateer's minutes and more.

Where's Diabate

[les-tah]

4 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

I think we needed some higher quality rotation for Mavididi over the season. You have to consider that Mcateer only didnt play for a while because he was injured, otherwise he had regular minutes. I think with Alves fit he could have gotten Mcateer's minutes and more.

Mcateer should be no where near our starting 11 next year, thats not to be harsh but that is just not his level right now. 

[AS78UK]

Don't shoot me down.....but if we are about to have a uphill season fighting relegation or worse being relegated as we navigate our impending points deduction.   Then I personally would prefer all three of them (Alves, Braybrooke and Nelson) to go out on loan at a championship club, hopefully having a positive experience.   

 

Then if we come down we have 3 players ready to take us back up that ain't tainted by the relegation and if we survive we have 3 players hopefully now fully ready to be moulded into team.  

[Leeds Fox]

4 hours ago, LCFCJohn said:

The clubs future hinges on getting the finances back under control. 
 

I’m not talking managers here but the fact the likes of Longstaff being linked for £15mill (likely for many years in a large wages) or Vestergaard being resigned when we could blood the likes of Alves and Nelson.

Yeah I agree, probably didn’t reply in the context of the whole thread. Although staying up is essential to allow us to control finances.