Vestergaard

[volpeazzurro]

On 17/03/2024 at 17:50, Col city fan said:

Faes is an absolute bomb-scare. I said it last season and nothing I see from him makes me change my view.

The defence has been Leicester’s main problem for a long time, and aren’t supported particularly by the lack of midfield solidity.

If we get promoted, this has to be addressed or we will get pasted.

Faes can be good but, just watch him in every game at around the 70 minute mark. His concentration seems to markedly disappear and his passing becomes very sloppy and haphazard. 

[Guest glasgowfox]

2 hours ago, Wolfox said:

Not for me either…. But, then again I don’t play football !

Did you mean to add either 

[volpeazzurro]

7 hours ago, lgfualol said:

Enzo probably had visions of Vesters getting the ball, mugging off 1-2 players with a bit of skill and slipping Daka in behind

Slipping Daka in the behind? Ooh Matron!

[MPH]

1 hour ago, Hirsty The Blue 94 said:

Put anyone in that system with no cover from either full back, playing on the half way line and you're centre back partner being anywhere but where he is needed and you will get the same result. Do you think 85 million pound Harry Maguire would have done any better basically 1 on 1 with Jackson for 90 minutes? Would Johnny Evans? 

 

Think things needs to be put into perspective, if we play that style against any of the big teams we will get ripped to shreds unless we sign 2 Fofana type centre halves who are rapid. But you also need him to be the ball player, so unless the scouting team unearth some gem from nowhere then we're stuck with what we have as those type of players a) won't come to Leicester b) would cost 50 million + of money we don't have. As I have said earlier in the thread, it's really not how we do (should we actually go up) against the big 6, it's if he and the defensive line up can handle the bottom half attacking line ups, your Brentford, Bournemouth, Everton, Forest, etc which would be the decision as if to whether we keep him or not.

 

Personally think we have much bigger issues to fill, we're likely going to sell KDH for a wedge to fund any incomings, Wilf will walk to a European team on a free so outside of Winks we're going to have to find an entirely new midfield. We also have 4 forwards, 1 of which may retire, 1 in Nacho will 100% walk which would leave you with Cannon and Daka, they ain't getting the goals to keep you up. Then you have the wing options, assuming we're going to cough up the fee to keep Abdul (and not Yunus) we're left with 2 options plus 2 kids in Kasey and Wanya. 

 

Personally think centre half is just about the position we might be okay in with young Nelson also showing promise so if we can keep Vesty and not pay him a shed load of cash then I think his positives outweigh his negatives. 

 

 

 

and what about the times he got turned over in the prem when we weren’t playing that system?

 

it would be suicidal playing him against prem teams. He’s limited. It’s as simple as that.

[Hirsty The Blue 94]

51 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

and what about the times he got turned over in the prem when we weren’t playing that system?

 

it would be suicidal playing him against prem teams. He’s limited. It’s as simple as that.

He started 6 games that season in the prem, so not exactly a great sample size to base it on, whereas his 3 seasons at Southampton finishing bottom half to mid table is probably a better sample size. He was signed a week before the season to fill Fofana's boots, and is a completely different player as Fofana is about 3 times as fast, so could cover for Evans lack of pace. 

 

The only real howler I remember him having was against Napoli when Osimhen ripped him apart at home, but he is one of the best strikers on the planet. I doubt Chris Wood or Neil Maupay would have the same effect.

 

I don't disagree he has limitations the biggest one being pace, but surround him with pace and defenders who can actually defend (not that idiotic Faes, Doyle and Hamza) and to me his strengths (on the ball, reading the game, aerially more solid) outweigh his weaknesses. As I say I think we're going to have much bigger holes than at centre half to try and buy 2/3 new.

 

Against the better sides Maresca I would hope should be more pragmatic, be more compact, harder to beat than we were on Sunday if we went up. If he isn't and plays that way then we will get sliced open no matter who plays there and Maresca won't last long and we will do a Burnley.

[Foxy DK]

1 hour ago, MPH said:

 

and what about the times he got turned over in the prem when we weren’t playing that system?

 

it would be suicidal playing him against prem teams. He’s limited. It’s as simple as that.

When people say that, it rarely is. Simple, I mean. We won’t know how we’ll set up or how he’ll do in the prem until we’ve seen him play a good amount of games. That’s the reality, not that he’s either crap or a world beater.

[MPH]

12 minutes ago, Hirsty The Blue 94 said:

He started 6 games that season in the prem, so not exactly a great sample size to base it on, whereas his 3 seasons at Southampton finishing bottom half to mid table is probably a better sample size. He was signed a week before the season to fill Fofana's boots, and is a completely different player as Fofana is about 3 times as fast, so could cover for Evans lack of pace. 

 

The only real howler I remember him having was against Napoli when Osimhen ripped him apart at home, but he is one of the best strikers on the planet. I doubt Chris Wood or Neil Maupay would have the same effect.

 

I don't disagree he has limitations the biggest one being pace, but surround him with pace and defenders who can actually defend (not that idiotic Faes, Doyle and Hamza) and to me his strengths (on the ball, reading the game, aerially more solid) outweigh his weaknesses. As I say I think we're going to have much bigger holes than at centre half to try and buy 2/3 new.

 

Against the better sides Maresca I would hope should be more pragmatic, be more compact, harder to beat than we were on Sunday if we went up. If he isn't and plays that way then we will get sliced open no matter who plays there and Maresca won't last long and we will do a Burnley.

 

and the season before that? We has been awful for us in the prem. He always has been.. when we didn’t have Doyle or Faes, he was still awful., we replace them  with better players then he will become even more of a target and the weak link.

 

 

The game against a very very average Chelsea showed just what a massive gulf there is in class between the prem and the champ..  and it would be foolish To take him up into the prem with us. we will face much better teams than them if we go up…

[MPH]

4 minutes ago, Foxy DK said:

When people say that, it rarely is. Simple, I mean. We won’t know how we’ll set up or how he’ll do in the prem until we’ve seen him play a good amount of games. That’s the reality, not that he’s either crap or a world beater.

 

umm… he has played in the prem for us before, you know? And he was awful. And we know exactly how we will set up.. Maresca has many talents, but flexibility isn’t one of them..

[Hirsty The Blue 94]

7 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

and the season before that? We has been awful for us in the prem. He always has been.. when we didn’t have Doyle or Faes, he was still awful., we replace them  with better players then he will become even more of a target and the weak link.

 

 

The game against a very very average Chelsea showed just what a massive gulf there is in class between the prem and the champ..  and it would be foolish To take him up into the prem with us. we will face much better teams than them if we go up…

That's it, 6 total starts in the prem for Leicester City, he was signed season before last. If you're basing your opinion on 6 starts then fair enough, but I would rather use his Southampton career of his barometer of his ability to play at the top level. They finished where we aspire to be next season is the harsh reality. 

 

You say an average Chelsea team, but they're a team in transition with all the new signings but they have an abundance of talent and pace in the forward positions. Look at the Man City game a few weeks ago they tore them apart for large parts of that game as well.

 

As I say put who you want in that system against the big teams who have pace and the movement that Chelsea had and we will be hammered. As I say I hope Enzo would be more pragmatic having learnt his lessons from the hammerings we took from Liverpool and Chelsea (both could have scored 8 with competent finishing) if we do go up against the big boys, if not he will learn the hard way with his job. But again, it's not the games against the top 6 that will define success for us next year, we could lose 10-0 to them all. Its the teams from 7th downwards we need to look at and compete with.

 

I'm not sure if you're suggesting sign someone (we have limited funds clearly and other areas of the field in which to spend it) play Coady (only ever looked good in a compact back 3 at Wolves, as soon as they went to 4 at the back he was exposed, benched then binned), play Nelson who has limited Championship experience and has looked okay in the most part (poor in the defeat to QPR)?

[Dan LCFC]

5 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

If we play as now, with the same personnel, he will be exposed, but we won’t, so it’s hard to tell.

It’s also no good focusing on what he is crap at (moving ) without acknowledging what we would lose without him.

I'm not quite as sure as you about that bit. It would be negligence to set up like yesterday though so I hope you're right.

 

The defence needs some investment that isn't going to arrive. I think he's going to have to be a bit more pragmatic, but I don't think that's really his style either. Something needs to give.

[Dahnsouff]

6 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

I'm not quite as sure as you about that bit. It would be negligence to set up like yesterday though so I hope you're right.

 

The defence needs some investment that isn't going to arrive. I think he's going to have to be a bit more pragmatic, but I don't think that's really his style either. Something needs to give.

Was agreeing that as it stands playing this way, with Jannik, with this personnel, we would struggle, but we would presumably have to recruit to cover his lack of pace, or just replace him - this has its own problems.

 

Surely Enzo watches Burnley with interest, as they are the perfect test bed of how this style can fall short without changes?

[Foxy DK]

8 hours ago, MPH said:

 

umm… he has played in the prem for us before, you know? And he was awful. And we know exactly how we will set up.. Maresca has many talents, but flexibility isn’t one of them..

For how many games under an awful manager? He had a quite solid career up until then.

 

My point isn’t that he definitely will be great for us. My point is that we can’t know how he’ll do until we see how we set up against different quality opposition, and that you can’t judge the man from a few games for us and disregard his entire career before and after. I also don’t see how people can be so sure that a player of the year and best cb in the championship-type won’t cut it in the prem.

[filbertway]

3 months till we can part ways. If Sunday doesn't convince the club that offering him a contract is beyond dumb, then nothing will.

Edited 19 March by filbertway

[Nolucklcfc]

Souttar is a better option at prem level but bloke can’t get a game. Bizarre 

[MPH]

3 hours ago, Foxy DK said:

For how many games under an awful manager? He had a quite solid career up until then.

 

My point isn’t that he definitely will be great for us. My point is that we can’t know how he’ll do until we see how we set up against different quality opposition, and that you can’t judge the man from a few games for us and disregard his entire career before and after. I also don’t see how people can be so sure that a player of the year and best cb in the championship-type won’t cut it in the prem.

 

to be fair he was awful from the moment he laced his boots up for us. No coming in on the crest of a wave or honeymoon period, which is something even Gabor Bori managed to do for a whole game..

[VLC86]

2 hours ago, filbertway said:

3 months till we can part ways. If Sunday doesn't convince the club that offering him a contract is beyond dumb, then nothing will.

I’m probably heading back to that train of thought but I do still think it could work. Play someone next to him that covers his weakness and it’s a different story.

 

Ive said elsewhere, less convinced by Wout.

[hejammy]

Did I hear right in the latest when your smiling podcast? Piper called Vesty a world class player on the ball!? 

[Guest leatherhead32]

3 hours ago, hejammy said:

Did I hear right in the latest when your smiling podcast? Piper called Vesty a world class player on the ball!? 

funny to read what people had to say about vest start of season and to be fair i wanted him sold but hes been steady at worst 4me and v good at times,  do remember him at saints being fine so got it when we bought him. as for wout im a fan but has col city fan i think ?said? bomb scare at times later on and with ben and coady good to go i get why supporters would jump on latter 2 if avin a badun ,all said n done we have 5 useful cb with souter to get us back , in the summer tho id say 2 to leave if in prem . so thatl be circa of 150 million in the bank  PERHAPS

[Foxy DK]

On 19/03/2024 at 11:20, MPH said:

 

to be fair he was awful from the moment he laced his boots up for us. No coming in on the crest of a wave or honeymoon period, which is something even Gabor Bori managed to do for a whole game..

Could you at least try to address some of the evident arguments for him not being awful in general? All players have bad spells in their careers, and with Vesty there were circumstances that make it hard to know how well he could’ve done.

 

[Dahnsouff]

On 19/03/2024 at 09:28, filbertway said:

3 months till we can part ways. If Sunday doesn't convince the club that offering him a contract is beyond dumb, then nothing will.

I agree focusing on one or two bad games in recent memory and disregarding huge performances for the majority of a seasonshould be the thinking the club** adopts

(Feel free to insert obligatory laughing response)

 

** although with this club, who knows.

[MPH]

13 minutes ago, Foxy DK said:

Could you at least try to address some of the evident arguments for him not being awful in general? All players have bad spells in their careers, and with Vesty there were circumstances that make it hard to know how well he could’ve done.

 

 

not when you see games like the Chelsea game, I can’t! He had his weaknesses exposed against them and there are people who are talking about taking him up to the prem with us and that would be an awful decision. there was no better way to see how he would fair in the prem than against prem opposition and he didn’t pass the test. Technically he’s good, but he just doesn’t have the pace to do well in the prem and this is what was exposed, unfortunately. In the prem they will expose your weaknesses and for a slow defender, they’ll isolate them and take advantage of them no matter how good technically they are. His lack of pace and lack of mobility/ agility are weaknesses I just can’t get over, I’m afraid.

[filbertway]

54 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

I agree focusing on one or two bad games in recent memory and disregarding huge performances for the majority of a seasonshould be the thinking the club** adopts

(Feel free to insert obligatory laughing response)

 

** although with this club, who knows.

It's more that we're going to have a lot more games next season where the opposition will be running at us and our defenders actually have to defend against competent attackers that can run and shoot (Sterling apart)

 

It'd be tremendously short sighted to ignore evidence of him lacking at Premier League level because he's looked good at a lower level in a role where he's largely allowed to walk forward with the ball and face little pressure in games.

Edited 22 March by filbertway

[Dahnsouff]

3 minutes ago, filbertway said:

It's more that we're going to have a lot more games next season where the opposition will be running at us and our defenders actually have to defend against competent attackers that can run and shoot (Sterling apart)

 

It'd be tremendously short sighted to ignore evidence of him lacking at Premier League level because he's looked good at a lower level in a role where he's largely allowed to walk forward with the ball and face little pressure in games.

I understand, he is glacially slow, and I have mentioned this before. We suffer because we have no pace in the back line, not just because of Vestergaard. So pairing a slower CB with one maybe two, faster CBs, could mitigate the problem, but I also concede it involves making him a central requirement, so would be further targeted (See Winks without Ricardo)

[dr.o.ball]

50 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

not when you see games like the Chelsea game, I can’t! He had his weaknesses exposed against them and there are people who are talking about taking him up to the prem with us and that would be an awful decision. there was no better way to see how he would fair in the prem than against prem opposition and he didn’t pass the test. Technically he’s good, but he just doesn’t have the pace to do well in the prem and this is what was exposed, unfortunately. In the prem they will expose your weaknesses and for a slow defender, they’ll isolate them and take advantage of them no matter how good technically they are. His lack of pace and lack of mobility/ agility are weaknesses I just can’t get over, I’m afraid.

Honestly his pace is an insurmountable problem and why not utilise/integrate Ben Nelson, he's the pacy talent that we're gonna need. 

[filbertway]

1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said:

I understand, he is glacially slow, and I have mentioned this before. We suffer because we have no pace in the back line, not just because of Vestergaard. So pairing a slower CB with one maybe two, faster CBs, could mitigate the problem, but I also concede it involves making him a central requirement, so would be further targeted (See Winks without Ricardo)

Add to that he's going to be 32 going into next season. If he was a key player and leader than I'd be inclined to keep him around however. A 32 year old that is fairly weak when not defending in a low block isn't what we need. No matter how well he can ping the ball around.

 

At some point - you actually do need your defenders to be able to defend. If he wants to stay in England his best bet will be to join Kompany, then we can loan him back if we get promoted and relegated. 

 

If we stay down and decide to keep him on, I'd fully expect to see posts claiming "his performance levels have really dropped off this season"

 

When in reality it'll be because we're a lot weaker and he's having to do more defending.