Starmer Speech Pre-Budget

[Sampson]

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/c0rw9edy00zt#player
 

Live now. As many predicted pre-election he’s going to pull the same thing as George Osbourne in 2010 and after promising no tax rises say “we looked at the finances and we need tax rises”

Edited 27 August 2024 by Sampson

[Otis]

Well, Knock me down with a feather. 

[st albans fox]

15 minutes ago, Sampson said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/c0rw9edy00zt#player
 

Live now. As many predicted pre-election he’s going to pull the same thing as George Osbourne in 2010 and after promising no tax rises say “we looked at the finances and we need tax rises”

He won’t raise taxes where he said he wouldn’t - income tax, vat, NI 

they didn’t actually commit to not raising any others. 
 

most sane objective people knew that they would have to increase taxes somewhere 

Edited 27 August 2024 by st albans fox

[urban.spaceman]

22 minutes ago, Sampson said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/c0rw9edy00zt#player
 

Live now. As many predicted pre-election he’s going to pull the same thing as George Osbourne in 2010 and after promising no tax rises say “we looked at the finances and we need tax rises”

From the article:

 

The PM again stressed this would not be on income tax, National Insurance or VAT - his definition of “working people”.

 

He's been pretty consistent on that

[Tommy G]

There will be pain but you'll just have to trust us.....sounds promising!

[Sampson]

20 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

From the article:

 

The PM again stressed this would not be on income tax, National Insurance or VAT - his definition of “working people”.

 

He's been pretty consistent on that

For the record - I’m not bashing Starmer at all. I said pre-election that I would love him to just admit to voters taxes need to go up if you want to fix the country’s broken public services. 
 

The biggest problem I had with Starmer’s campaign that he was constantly ruling things out in order to placate Sunak’s attacks. And that meant that he boxed himself in so much and has given himself way too few levers to pull.

[Robo61]

17 minutes ago, Sampson said:

For the record - I’m not bashing Starmer at all. I said pre-election that I would love him to just admit to voters taxes need to go up if you want to fix the country’s broken public services. 
 

The biggest problem I had with Starmer’s campaign that he was constantly ruling things out in order to placate Sunak’s attacks. And that meant that he boxed himself in so much and has given himself way too few levers to pull.

Agree with this completly,  we need a completly honest debate on tax and spend in this country.  For years the General Public have been given the idea that we can have Scandinavian levels of Public Services with US rates of taxation. This is clearly cannot the case but that is what the right wing press have been selling this through theiralmost daily knocking of public servants and the highlighting of relatively small amounts of waste that happens in any organisation. 

 

Though what I would realy like to see is the overall simplification of the tax system there are far too many allowances that only the very rich can use to lower there liabilities.  This would go a long way to ensuring the rich paid there far share and would in my view have a minimal effect on the other 95%.   With all this Government needs to do I suspect this is on the too hard (politically) to do list.

[Greg2607]

mainstream media will report it as "Starmer says taxes to increase"........

 

as opposed to "Starmer sticks to pre-election promise of not raising NI, VAT or Income Tax".... 

 

then all of the anti labour mob will be slathering all over the place saying "it's always the way with labour".... 

 

I think there does need to be a REALLY honest debate with the country about the mess that we are in... what can be protected, what can we achieve and how do we get there. 

 

I'm a labour voter....  HOWEVER, I don't think they have got it right in terms of sharing a joined up vision of the future and getting the public behind it. 

 

I'm sure people wouldn't mind an increase in tax, if there was a vision of the end goal. 

 

[pleatout]

There will be rises, but anyone with half a brain knew that.

 

I suspect we'll see changes to tax relief on pensions that seem to favour the well off.  For example £250k lump sum tax free isnt something most "ordinary working people" can lay claim to.

 

And on Capital gains tax, again something most folk dont need to bother with.  It is paid at 20% for higher rate (40%) tax payers - why?

[PAULCFC]

Not really a labour supporter........but thought it was good he didn't sugar coat things,when we all know what a mess the country is in.

Edited 27 August 2024 by PAULCFC

[David Hankey]

It's 2010 all over again. We were in a mess then and we're still in a mess now, apparently.

 

No wonder he's called 'Captain Hindsight'!!

Edited 27 August 2024 by David Hankey

[indierich06]

I'm what would probably be classed as a higher earner, and I'm very, very happy to pay more tax IF it actually goes on making this country a better place to live, and a country that works for everyone. Fund public services, invest in the country. I'm so sick of having to wait a week for a GP appointment, walking down streets with boarded up shops and rubbish floating around, bins collected intermittently, roads filled with potholes - the country is falling to bits, it's no surprise that we're going to have to pay to sort it out.

 

The social contract has been broken in this country and we have such a perverse relationship with tax - people should contribute based on what they can afford, and the government has a responsibility to spend that money wisely. Instead, no-one wants to pay tax and successive govts just spunk our money up the wall anyway.

[HighPeakFox]

1 hour ago, David Hankey said:

It's 2010 all over again. We were in a mess then and we're still in a mess now, apparently.

 

No wonder he's called 'Captain Hindsight'!!

Anyone breathing for the last 14 years of utter corruption and depravity knew what a mess had been left, irrelevant of the last Labour administration.

[David Hankey]

2 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Anyone breathing for the last 14 years of utter corruption and depravity knew what a mess had been left, irrelevant of the last Labour administration.

Are you saying the country wasn't in a mess in 2010? Where have you been or is a question of selective memory?

[HighPeakFox]

1 minute ago, David Hankey said:

Are you saying the country wasn't in a mess in 2010? Where have you been or is a question of selective memory?

You're effectively holding Labour responsible for both situations, which is partial, to say the very least.

 

I would add that 2010 had an awful lot more reason to it than 'Labour spend your money' - perhaps you might care to listen to James O'Brien on the subject.

[Dahnsouff]

4 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

From the article:

 

The PM again stressed this would not be on income tax, National Insurance or VAT - his definition of “working people”.

 

He's been pretty consistent on that

I understand the principle but I find the use of the term a class division in itself and is thus unhelpful.

[David Hankey]

52 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

You're effectively holding Labour responsible for both situations, which is partial, to say the very least.

 

I would add that 2010 had an awful lot more reason to it than 'Labour spend your money' - perhaps you might care to listen to James O'Brien on the subject.

I am not holding Labour responsible for both situations. All I'm saying is the Coalition inherited a mess back in 2010 and Starmer is now saying exactly the same.

 

Deja vu springs to mind.

[Parafox]

3 hours ago, David Hankey said:

It's 2010 all over again. We were in a mess then and we're still in a mess now, apparently.

 

No wonder he's called 'Captain Hindsight'!!

After 14 years of the Tories. What did they do to put it right? 

 

Is the word "apparently" intended to suggest something else? 

 

Also, who has called him "Captain Hindsight", except you?

 

 

Edited 27 August 2024 by Parafox

[urban.spaceman]

3 hours ago, David Hankey said:

It's 2010 all over again. We were in a mess then and we're still in a mess now, apparently.

 

No wonder he's called 'Captain Hindsight'!!

[Parafox]

10 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

How did you manage to transpose that figurative image of Mr Hankey onto the badge? 

Edited 27 August 2024 by Parafox

[David Hankey]

1 hour ago, Parafox said:

 

How did you manage to transpose that figurative image of Mr Hankey onto the badge? 

I wondered that as well. You've obviously got hidden talents Too clever for these boards.

[Greg2607]

On 27/08/2024 at 17:02, David Hankey said:

Are you saying the country wasn't in a mess in 2010? Where have you been or is a question of selective memory?

[Robo61]

On 27/08/2024 at 17:02, David Hankey said:

Are you saying the country wasn't in a mess in 2010? Where have you been or is a question of selective memory?

You expect the country to work better over time and it was certainly in a better state than it was in 1997.  Can you identify any area of life in the UK that is better now than it was in 2010.

[urban.spaceman]

49 minutes ago, Robo61 said:

You expect the country to work better over time and it was certainly in a better state than it was in 1997.  Can you identify any area of life in the UK that is better now than it was in 2010.

Boris Johnson is now a national pariah and a million miles away from having any sort of influence in politics.

[David Hankey]

1 hour ago, Robo61 said:

You expect the country to work better over time and it was certainly in a better state than it was in 1997.  Can you identify any area of life in the UK that is better now than it was in 2010.

I might have more time answering this as I've just been caught by the Old Bill for speeding, can you believe, and could end up being incarcerated.

 

All though thinking about there's no room in prisons now.