Jeremy Monga

[DezFox]

5 hours ago, murphy said:

By recent years, I mean the last PL era for 2014 to now.  In roughly ten years we have had Chilwell, Barnes, Thomas, Choudhury,  and KDH come through.  Alves and Braybrooke have been set back by injury otherwise they would likely be further advanced.  Alves is now starting to make a name for himself already at Cardiff.  Add to that Nelson, McAteer and Stolarcyk coming through and your assertion that there is no pathway for our youth players is demonstrably wrong.  

Braybrook, Alves, Stolarcyk, Nelson are literally all prime examples of how we don’t give them a chance. All have been sent out and shunned for the likes of ward, BDR, Praet, vesty. etc. Your other examples are from a different era really, we have since moved away from this model that worked really and I think that is the source of many of our frustrations. 
 

Examples you mentioned like barnes and chilwell were 10 years ago now simply not relevant to how we operate today and of a time when things were better, much better. 

[DezFox]

2 hours ago, LCFCJohn said:

Maresca tried a bit but still not enough for me. I realise that he has factors like Alves having had his untimely injury and he wasn’t really back enough to be a viable option. I think he could have used Nelson more but he stuck rigidly to his Vestergaard/Faes love in.

 

Fitness and injury pending, for me, Nelson and Alves have to be pivotal to the side next season, they just have to be. They are the two that are most established. I see them as first 11.

 

I thought Braybrooke as well but his loan was just a complete waste of time and he didn’t even get to go out again which I think he could have done based on Cover going to Fleetwood after being at Port Vale.

 

Then you really are talking the proper kids, Monga (if still here), Evans etc. You have to sensible with them but they need regular minutes off the bench with a view to being integrated as starters as we go through the season if they are good enough.

I agree, these players have to be pivotal in our side next season, hope we use them properly. I’m not suggesting that we start Monga now, but if we had given players like Alves, Braybrooke, Nelson and even Cannon a chance. Other players, like Monga might see there is a clear pathway and you will get opportunities. Unfortunately, if your him and his family, you don’t see a how you get that. Sad state of this club unfortunately. 

Edited 8 March by DezFox

[ealingfox]

PSR so you live within your means and develop your own talent oh but also if you develop any talent you can't use it or profit from it.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

8 hours ago, murphy said:

By recent years, I mean the last PL era for 2014 to now.  In roughly ten years we have had Chilwell, Barnes, Thomas, Choudhury,  and KDH come through.  Alves and Braybrooke have been set back by injury otherwise they would likely be further advanced.  Alves is now starting to make a name for himself already at Cardiff.  Add to that Nelson, McAteer and Stolarcyk coming through and your assertion that there is no pathway for our youth players is demonstrably wrong.  

Are you claiming that 5 in 11 years is impressive? 

[Mint23]

14 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Are you claiming that 5 in 11 years is impressive? 

I actually think it’s fairly impressive.  I’d be interested to see how it compares to other premier league clubs of our size 

[murphy]

14 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Are you claiming that 5 in 11 years is impressive? 

I think I mentioned 10.  Some have had their development set back through injury.

 

Well let's go 10 years before that for comparison.  2004 to 2014...

 

 

[JimJams]

You think that's going to be relevant when convincing a player that wasn't even born in the beginning of that timeframe?

[murphy]

2 hours ago, DezFox said:

Braybrook, Alves, Stolarcyk, Nelson are literally all prime examples of how we don’t give them a chance. All have been sent out and shunned for the likes of ward, BDR, Praet, vesty. etc. Your other examples are from a different era really, we have since moved away from this model that worked really and I think that is the source of many of our frustrations. 
 

Examples you mentioned like barnes and chilwell were 10 years ago now simply not relevant to how we operate today and of a time when things were better, much better. 

Braybrooke and Alves have just come back from injury which has set them back.  So has Stolarcyk, who played this year and last.  

 

Those players plus Nelson are all in the early stages of breaking through.  Do you really expect them to go straight into the first team without going out on loan first?  The likes of Chilwell and Barnes certainly went out on loan first..

Edited 8 March by murphy

[murphy]

7 minutes ago, JimJams said:

You think that's going to be relevant when convincing a player that wasn't even born in the beginning of that timeframe?

Its relevant to show how our development pathway has improved.

 

It has been a source of pride for me that in recent seasons we would regularly field three or four academy graduates in the first team.  How many other clubs can say that?

 

I hope that we build next year's Championship side around the likes of Alves and Nelson.

 

Edited 8 March by murphy

[JimJams]

2 minutes ago, murphy said:

Its relevant to show how our development pathway has improved.

 

Ok, but that's not relevant to the player.

"We were shit at something 20 years ago, in the last 10 years we got better"

It's not exactly selling it.

If it's Man City we're up against they've recently brought through Foden, Bobb, McAtee and Lewis as first team players. Not to mention the swathes of players they sold or loaned out to other good clubs.

 

17 minutes ago, Mint23 said:

I actually think it’s fairly impressive.  I’d be interested to see how it compares to other premier league clubs of our size 

It might be interesting, but again, not largely relevant.  We're not going to lose him to a premier league club of our size.

[murphy]

2 minutes ago, JimJams said:

Ok, but that's not relevant to the player.

"We were shit at something 20 years ago, in the last 10 years we got better"

It's not exactly selling it.

If it's Man City we're up against they've recently brought through Foden, Bobb, McAtee and Lewis as first team players. Not to mention the swathes of players they sold or loaned out to other good clubs.

The point I was making was to show that we have developed a lot of players from our academy amid these nonsense claims that there is no pathway.

 

Why are we making comparisons with Man City?  They are likely to pinch Monga from under our noses which just goes to show the unfair advantage they have.  A better comparison would be Crystal Palace, West Ham, Forest etc.  Can they match our conveyor belt?  Doubt it.

[JimJams]

2 minutes ago, murphy said:

The point I was making was to show that we have developed a lot of players from our academy amid these nonsense claims that there is no pathway.

Fair enough.

 

2 minutes ago, murphy said:

Why are we making comparisons with Man City?  They are likely to pinch Monga from under our noses which just goes to show the unfair advantage they have.  A better comparison would be Crystal Palace, West Ham, Forest etc.  Can they match our conveyor belt?  Doubt it.

The reason the comparisons are with Man City is because they are (one of) the clubs we are having to compete with to keep the player.  If it was a Palace, West Ham, it might not be as much of an issue.

Edited 8 March by JimJams

[DezFox]

1 minute ago, murphy said:

Braybrooke and Alves have just come back from injury which has set them back.  So has Stolarcyk, who played last year and last.  

 

Those players plus Nelson are all in the early stages of breaking through.  Do you really expect them to go straight into the first team without going out on loan first?  The likes of Chilwell and Barnes certainly went out on loan first..

Why have Nelson and Alves not featured this year? The fact is they should have done.  I’m not saying they are world class, but they must be better than what we have? Especially when you consider how unbelievably beneficial it would be for PSR and how bad we have been. Instead of letting 150million quid worth of player go on a free, sell a year early and invest money and time in youth, keeping hold of these players has stunted other and made things more stale and more stagnant. Bassey is another clear example, he would walk into our team today.
 

Bed a couple of them in and the likes of Monga, Nyoni, and noubissie, might just think twice. They act on what they see and at the moment, they are see nothing to suggest they will get first team any time soon. Convince 1 or 2 and momentum builds, perception improves and reputation convinces others. 
 

I honestly believe a snowball effect can happen and if we used our academy more effectively we would see huge benefits across all facets of the club. I actually believe that for a club of our size, blooding youngsters and building a reputation of a team that is seen  actively seen giving first team opitunities to young players is the only way to sustainably survive. I also think that if you have a bad year, you have the development and the assets to rebuild and get back up. 
 

The way we operate is madness. Sorry rant over, happy Saturday 😂

[murphy]

2 minutes ago, JimJams said:

Fair enough.

 

The reason the comparisons are with Man City is because they are (one of) the clubs we are having to compete with to keep the player.  If it was a Palace, West Ham, it might not be as much of an issue.

Well I think it likely that the lure of trophies, Champion's League football and higher wages will be the reason he goes there, none of which we can compete with, not because his development is blocked at Leicester City,   Lets remember this kid is 15.  He has not been blocked.

 

The point I was making re Palace and West Ham is that they are similar sized clubs and if we are so bad, let's look at their record on youth development compared to ours.

[Claudio Fannieri]

Another massive downside to losing Enzo in the summer. I know he had his detractors and he had his faults but he was brave enough to give academy players opportunities, Stolycyrk, Nelson, Cover, Raikhy, Wanya, McAteer all got 1st team exposure and if it hadn’t of been for injury there is no doubt Braybrooke and Alves would have seen minutes as well. 
 

Given the talent we have in our academy we have to appoint managers who fully buy into bringing 3/4 through every year, our model has to be to develop our players, give them as much game time and experience, with a view to not only generating profits through sales but also having a model that also makes us competitive in a sustainable manner. 

[murphy]

5 minutes ago, DezFox said:

Why have Nelson and Alves not featured this year? The fact is they should have done.  I’m not saying they are world class, but they must be better than what we have? Especially when you consider how unbelievably beneficial it would be for PSR and how bad we have been. Instead of letting 150million quid worth of player go on a free, sell a year early and invest money and time in youth, keeping hold of these players has stunted other and made things more stale and more stagnant. Bassey is another clear example, he would walk into our team today.
 

Bed a couple of them in and the likes of Monga, Nyoni, and noubissie, might just think twice. They act on what they see and at the moment, they are see nothing to suggest they will get first team any time soon. Convince 1 or 2 and momentum builds, perception improves and reputation convinces others. 
 

I honestly believe a snowball effect can happen and if we used our academy more effectively we would see huge benefits across all facets of the club. I actually believe that for a club of our size, blooding youngsters and building a reputation of a team that is seen  actively seen giving first team opitunities to young players is the only way to sustainably survive. I also think that if you have a bad year, you have the development and the assets to rebuild and get back up. 
 

The way we operate is madness. Sorry rant over, happy Saturday 😂

Part of the development pathway is to go out on loan at lower levels and to learn their trade.  To make the step up at different levels.  You can't  claim that the era of bringing thorough the likes of Chllwell and Barnes (who were exceptional btw) is over just because Alves and Nelson have been loaned out rather than immediately integrated, when Chilwell and barnes needed to be loaned themselves before they were ready.

 

I actually think that playing Nelson and Alves this year could have been detrimental to their development.  The team is broken, the atmosphere becoming toxic and the jump from academy to Premier league probably too great.  I think putting them into a broken team could have broken them too.  Much better off at Cardiff and Oxford this year.

 

For the likes of Monga and Nyoni they only need look at the steady stream of academy graduates at LCFC to see a pathway but when the likes of Man City and Liverpool come calling their heads will be turned.  We can't compete with them, but let's not pretend that they leave because they can't find a way through.  

[RowlattsFox]

Because our situation is so desperate people are forgetting how young 15 years old is. Even Foden had to wait until he was 17 and he was talked about for years. 

 

Man City have given some youth a go this season, but how many are 15? 

[BKLFox]

Man C have just brought a 15yr (16 this year so like Monga) highly rated goalkeeper from Hibs for £230k, that figure makes me chuckle when a few think we will be getting a few £m when Monga goes but the interesting thing is in the same article it name checks at least 3 other highly rated keepers he will join, all aged 17.

The chances of this soon to be 16yr old working his way through just those 3 + anyone else his age or older standing between him and Edison to take a 1st team slot must be some outrageous odds + take until he’s well into his 20s.

 

If/when Monga goes he will be up against another 4 or 5 Monga’s + better players vying for the same position & whilst if his reasons are to get the best training and test himself would be admirable the odds of playing 1st for Leicester before Man C are greater.

He’s more likely to spend a season in the U16/17s in Man C academy before being loaned out to a Luton, then the following season a Hull and so on, when & given how Ruud is talking he could have had 2 or 3 seasons in our 1st team (hopefully) at a higher level than what he may get in the next 3 seasons.

 

I also think some are thinking to far ahead, 15/16 into men’s football that is a massive leap mentally, physically, financially and 1 that could destroy him and see him out the game in his early 20s, thinking Ravel Morrison (financially), Jack Wilshire (physically) & a 2020 study of just 3719 players recorded 13.6% suffered from mental health issue attributed to pressures of playing, I’d imagine that percentage is higher now.

 

 

 

Edited 8 March by BKLFox

[Noahfence]

He’s on the bench for the u18s today.. 

[ceebeefox]

7 hours ago, DezFox said:

Braybrook, Alves, Stolarcyk, Nelson are literally all prime examples of how we don’t give them a chance. All have been sent out and shunned for the likes of ward, BDR, Praet, vesty. etc. Your other examples are from a different era really, we have since moved away from this model that worked really and I think that is the source of many of our frustrations. 
 

Examples you mentioned like barnes and chilwell were 10 years ago now simply not relevant to how we operate today and of a time when things were better, much better. 

Even Hirst improves this lot!!

[Chelmofox]

45 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

I also think some are thinking to far ahead, 15/16 into men’s football that is a massive leap mentally, physically, financially and 1 that could destroy him and see him out the game in his early 20s, thinking Ravel Morrison (financially), Jack Wilshire (physically) & a 2020 study of just 3719 players recorded 13.6% suffered from mental health issue attributed to pressures of playing, I’d imagine that percentage is higher now.

I always felt Owen's and Rooney's long term careers were impacted by hitting the scene so early. But this kid is 15. It really hits home in Ruuds press conference when he talks fitting in sessions around his schooling. The vultures are circling around him, and on this forum we talk about 'chucking him' in the first team because, well - you might as well. But our club at the moment are the ones who have to actually manage him, consider his duty of care, actually plan that path way. I find the way a lot of us talk about him a bit sad really. 

 

At the end of the day im resigned that there is nothing we can do. Our fans are being exceptionally critical of our club but at the end of the day our facilities and our setup have shaped him to what he is now. In my industry, this would be like Google or Amazon coming for you if you were a junior. It would be so difficult to turn down and at a young age he is going to experience success at many levels (Prem, Cups, Champions League etc ) that he isn't going to get here.

[Chelmofox]

7 hours ago, DezFox said:

Braybrook, Alves, Stolarcyk, Nelson are literally all prime examples of how we don’t give them a chance. All have been sent out and shunned for the likes of ward, BDR, Praet, vesty. etc. Your other examples are from a different era really, we have since moved away from this model that worked really and I think that is the source of many of our frustrations. 
 

Examples you mentioned like barnes and chilwell were 10 years ago now simply not relevant to how we operate today and of a time when things were better, much better. 

Going out on loan isn't being 'shunned'. Has Stolarcyk not proven himself at this level already and destined to become out number 1 when Hermansen leaves? Alves and Nelson are now at the right developmental loans and if continue as they are, should feature in our first team. 

[LCFCJohn]

It’s not so much about him (or Nyoni or whoever is next) leaving, but the system needs to compensate the developing club fairly.

 

Man City will be bringing him in at an age where he will class as home grown to flip in a few years and pocket the profit, don’t be naive enough to think they are actually bringing him in for a future in the first team. 
 

It’s how they keep on top of PsR.

[DezFox]

1 hour ago, Chelmofox said:

Going out on loan isn't being 'shunned'. Has Stolarcyk not proven himself at this level already and destined to become out number 1 when Hermansen leaves? Alves and Nelson are now at the right developmental loans and if continue as they are, should feature in our first team. 

Alves and Nelson should be in the team now. We also should have know more about Jakubs ability before ward gets anywhere near the team. 

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, Noahfence said:

He’s on the bench for the u18s today.. 

Is he?