expectations vs reality

[Clever Fox]

12 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

How on earth do you get on the brink of a PSR charge, whilst devaluing your squad, club has been run really well.

That's quite easy to understand. After winning the Cup they believed Rogers knew what he was doing.

 

It's the time old problem of do you back the Manager or not. After turning around our fortunes and winning the Cup they decided to back him.

They allowed him to spend 200 million on mostly poor players. That's a receipe for disaster for Clubs our size.

 

It's reasonable for the Club to assume Rogers would bring in more quality after his early success and convinced the Club things would work out ok. Of course we know it didn't. Clubs are damned if they do and damned if they don't support the manager.

Rogers screwed us over big time, I would'nt blame the club in anyway for that.

 

[MonkeyTennis?]

I would guess the timing is partly because Top was there on Saturday. He saw the game, saw the players, saw how flat the atmosphere was. That has to have had an impact. 

[CosbehFox]

40 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

You hate evidence that the club is underperforming in the squad building area?

 

I agree on communications its a complete shambles.  It wasnt coopers or the next managers job to rejuvenate the squad, thats down to the DoF and ownership of the club.

 

You are refusing to accept we have the 3rd weakest squad in the league.  Meaning we can only reasonably expect to outplay 2 out of 19 teams.

Ironically they outplayed us until they received red cards 

[Nalis]

13 hours ago, Guest said:

Realistically, he's not been sacked because the board or supporters think we should be higher up the table, has he? The aim is to stay up and I have no doubt whatsoever that Top and co. would snap your hand off for 16th at the end of the season if offered it, as would I. He's been sacked because the performances have given little reason to believe we're likely to finish that high and both the fans and more importantly the players have been left totally unconvinced by his methods and tactics.

Thank you, I'm amazed this still needs to be pointed out at times.

[Les-TA-Jon]

1 hour ago, Chrysalis said:

We still should be 18th end of season based on squad.  Also your reply if true to the thinking of the ownership of the club means survival wasnt the priority and the key part of Coopers agreement.  Because if it was he would still be here.

 

Clearly style of play is a factor.  Which we are referring to as performances in this thread.

My issue here is primarily the owners though not Coopers sacking, they need to improve the squad, improve the footballing operations, and bang their heads together on expectations, because before those things improve the only way we staying up is a miracle manager, one who over performs.

 

This problem with Top his delusion of how good the squad is has crept in to many supporters who now think the same.

 

Its astounding how many people think its all the manager.  

Thinking the footballing operations and spend of the club arent relevant here, even with the data staring at them in their faces.  There just seems to be s stubborn refusal to acknowledge top and his circle is a problem.

Those things aren't mutually exclusive though? Ultimately, our longer term strategy has been a mess - in terms of board level decisions, spending, PSR, and recruitment - since we won the FA cup in 2021. Whilst that persist, any manager we have will struggle. 

 

But Cooper was also awful and very likely taking us down. So we change the manager to give us an improved chance to stay up. 

 

I think most sensible people here were always expecting this season to be a bottom 5 finish. 

[ACF]

1 hour ago, Chrysalis said:

You hate evidence that the club is underperforming in the squad building area?

 

I agree on communications its a complete shambles.  It wasnt coopers or the next managers job to rejuvenate the squad, thats down to the DoF and ownership of the club.

 

You are refusing to accept we have the 3rd weakest squad in the league.  Meaning we can only reasonably expect to outplay 2 out of 19 teams.

I beg your pardon? I’m not refusing to accept anything.

 

I can understand that making signings has been hard, and we aren’t a strong squad. It’s also clear that Cooper didn’t sign off on every transfer, there’s no way he identified Okoli for example. 
 

However, who was the one saying we needed experienced players like BDCR, Edouard, Skipp? Real game changers them. 
 

Who then failed to put together a coherent game plan with the signings coming in? 

 

Who left then failed to adapt, like leaving Ricardo on the bench despite a huge amount of our goals coming from the right side? 

 

At what point have we looked like a team that was playing greater than the sum of its parts?

 

At what point has Cooper and our staff looked like they’ve turned an existing player into something better than what he was previously (no, Soumare’s 5 mins don’t count). That’s how value is made.
 

I am in no way defending Rudkin/Whelan, they are responsible straying from what made us sustainable as a club. But you cannot honestly say that Coopers performance was down to the squad at his disposal and that our expectations were too high? You say we can only expect us to “outplay” two teams, surely you know that’s not how football works. You expect your team to have no fight, no desire, no grit? To be out worked? To sit back and defend, and have no counter punch? You sir, are an ostrich.

[Royston.]

who cares whatever bullshit reason they give?

 

Cooper is gone and thats a big step forward

 

i'll take the uncertainty of what new manager we could end up with as that would be far better than life under Cooper

[Sly]

On 24/11/2024 at 23:08, Chrysalis said:

Thought I would post this to knock some heads together and provide a reality check, this includes you mr Top.  If you think we should be higher up the table, how about spending something to support your theory.

 

 

We were at one point in a great position but I think far too many people have assumed other teams stand still, and not realised other clubs have improved their own positions relative to ourselves.  This applies both to the ownership of the club and a significant portion of our fan base.

Looking at a squad value on transfer market is pointless. 

 

For example: 
 

Hermansen is £9m

Faes is £20m

Fatawu is £13m

Edouard is £18m

Ayew is £4m

Vardy is £1m

Reality is value on paper, has no direct reflection to actual ability or form. Look at some of the worlds most expensive transfers and you’ll see that whilst book value is astronomical, you don’t always get a return on investment. Dembele, Hazard, Courinho, Pogba, Lukaku, Neymar, Felix, Pepe, Greizmann, Kepa etc have all gone for massive money and it hasn’t worked. 

 

We were relegated with the most expensive squad ever assembled. 
 

We won the league with a bunch of cast offs, freebies and cheap players. 
 

 

[Sly]

18 hours ago, BKLFox said:

Out of interest what is the ‘player’ column showing on the original graph, I assume total squad but don’t we all have a 25 man squad + U21s? 
There is no way we have a larger squad than Chelsea, Man C etc no?

I believe it’s from TransferMarket, so the values are somewhat suspect anyway.

 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/leicester-city/startseite/verein/1003

[sylofox]

None of us on here shouldn't need telling about transfer values. Most on here would have took 40m for McGuire. Look at the shit deal the club ended up doing for him.

[tickler28]

On the face of it we are where we deserve to be in the league.... possibly higher than we deserve to be but I think the next few weeks will truly set the tone of where we can expect to be. Coopers football may have been dire but where he has us in the league is not dreadful and even if our football improves we could still be in the bottom 3. We need to swallow the bitter pill that as things stand there are not 3 worse teams than us in this division.

[The boy Linacre]

We've butchered this season from Maresca leaving.

It wasn't ideal but we had some time, I presume we struggled to get a manager in because the the impending PSR at the time.  We bought some players in, Almost all are poor and haven't taken us forward in anyway, its was an AWFUL window.

Rubbish = Eduoard, BDCR, Michael Golding?? Who??

Poor = Skipp (why did we buy him at £20m+??, I presume most fans asked the same question), Okoli is now looking an issue too, can't play and defending is starting to go backwards

Passable = Ayew (but on his backside ALL the time)

Promising - El Khannouss, hope to come good over time

 

Wasn't bothered about Cooper's Forest links, and open minded on him, but after the 2 wins, and somewhat before that, such a conservative cautious manager, substition approach poor, late, uninspiring & confused + what was the Ricky issue.  Patently confused the players, we lost any identity and he accepted poor performances by not making changes.

Saturday, we looked a poor side, tragically we have lost Abdul, who knows with Winks and we are reliant on a 37 year old striker, who can finish and link somewhat but little else, and is a injury risk now.

Top and his team have 9 weeks to sort this:

1) Moyes (short term) or Potter, if either will come, proven & reliable, no risks/punts

2)3 at least GOOD quality players, all must start or play (coming on) in most of the games once they are bought....and take that team forward and solve some of the issues, defending or creating, team spirit and doggedness

And then we'll see

BUT we have to find a way to stay up, that is expectation, and I think 17th or 16th is expectation, and should be reality, if we do some of the above, get an identity, a way to play, cut down on conceding and get some confidence.

[Daggers]

On 25/11/2024 at 09:31, ACF said:

I ****ing hate threads like this. Trying to justify absolute dross.

 

Any sports fan needs two things from their team.

 

1. Hope

2. A plan

 

Doesn’t matter how low you set the standards of hope, if there’s a plan to get to it, fans are happy. When no plan is communicated, we fans conjure up our own, and hope for that. 
 

Personally, I hope to see our team survive, whilst rejuvenating the squad and capitalising on our talented youth for sustainable success. Cooper had no plan for that.

 

I would have accepted solely survival. Cooper had no plan for that.
 

A plan and some hope, it’s all we need.

 

It's not two, it's a 6-step process.

 

How do you give someone hope?

1. Plan
2. Effort
3. Community
4. Kebabs
5. Energy
6. Responsibility

That's right, KPFC need to think more about my PECKER.

 

They've been focussing too much on their PECKERS

1. Pricing
2. e-Commerce
3. Clothing
4. Kakistocracy
5. Empty promises
6. Recklessness
7. Stupidity

 

[ACF]

9 minutes ago, Daggers said:

 

It's not two, it's a 6-step process.

 

How do you give someone hope?

1. Plan
2. Effort
3. Community
4. Kebabs
5. Energy
6. Responsibility

That's right, KPFC need to think more about my PECKER.

 

They've been focussing too much on their PECKERS

1. Pricing
2. e-Commerce
3. Clothing
4. Kakistocracy
5. Empty promises
6. Recklessness
7. Stupidity

 

You know what you’re dead right, and it’s so simple too, you can count the steps on one hand.

Time for the club to shake it all about. Pecker In. Peckers Out.

[Chrysalis]

On 25/11/2024 at 12:35, CosbehFox said:

Ironically they outplayed us until they received red cards 

We also got 4 points out of 6.  So did what was needed.

 

Many neutrals now think we more likely to drop with the managerial change, as they recognise how poor our squad is, hopefully Ruud gets backed properly in January.

[Chrysalis]

On 25/11/2024 at 12:20, Clever Fox said:

That's quite easy to understand. After winning the Cup they believed Rogers knew what he was doing.

 

It's the time old problem of do you back the Manager or not. After turning around our fortunes and winning the Cup they decided to back him.

They allowed him to spend 200 million on mostly poor players. That's a receipe for disaster for Clubs our size.

 

It's reasonable for the Club to assume Rogers would bring in more quality after his early success and convinced the Club things would work out ok. Of course we know it didn't. Clubs are damned if they do and damned if they don't support the manager.

Rogers screwed us over big time, I would'nt blame the club in anyway for that.

 

Signings were poor but we also failed to get rid of players he didnt want, why did we turn down an offer for a player he disowned?

Financial management is about quality scouting, negotiation, and getting rid of squad players surplus to requirements.

 

Ultimately the blame for this isnt down to Rodgers.  His part of the blame of course is the lower finish in the league table prize money, but not on player trading.

[Clever Fox]

12 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

Signings were poor but we also failed to get rid of players he didnt want, why did we turn down an offer for a player he disowned?

Financial management is about quality scouting, negotiation, and getting rid of squad players surplus to requirements.

 

Ultimately the blame for this isnt down to Rodgers.  His part of the blame of course is the lower finish in the league table prize money, but not on player trading.

Of cousre he's guilty of player trading. He signed the players he brought in who were mostly crapp. 

Giving out too generous Contracts is down to the Club. Contracts shouls always be incentive based.

We've had trouble moving players on because they mainly haven't been good enough and secondly the Contracts have been too generous.

Financial Management has nothing to do with Scouting,  Though good Scouting is what can quickly improves the finances in Football Clubs. Maguire, Fofana Mahrez etc.

That's why It's crucial to have the right people doing that job. They also have to work with the Manager to find the players he wants to fill positions in the Team.

They can also just sign players to improve and sell on at a profit. Liverpool have been doing it for years. Chelsea also. We have the facilities in place now we should be using them more to maximise our return on Seagrave secondary to the first team.

 

Brighton just copied what Pearson was doing but have perfected it even better. Why ? Simply because they have the right people in the right places within the Club Structure.

Aside from the first team manager. So as when he goes nothing else changes.

 

When Pearson left we allowed others to dismantle most of what he built, Which is why we're in the mess we're in today.

 

Let's just hope Ruud brings a new more modern agenda to the Club. He must have learned a lot working and playing for some of the best Managers and Coaches of his day.

 

[Chrysalis]

We turned down multiple offers, no one forced us to do that.

What the obsession with defending the club directors on this site.

Scouting has a lot to do with it, you scout and buy duds, then you either selling at a loss, giving away, or keeping them on the pay roll.

Who are you blaming for the contracts?

Ruud the manager wont be fixing any of these issues as its not in his scope.

 

I see from the other thread MoN has said the same thing now on entitlement.

Edited 28 November 2024 by Chrysalis

[J. James]

On 24/11/2024 at 23:08, Chrysalis said:

Thought I would post this to knock some heads together and provide a reality check, this includes you mr Top.  If you think we should be higher up the table, how about spending something to support your theory.

 

 

We were at one point in a great position but I think far too many people have assumed other teams stand still, and not realised other clubs have improved their own positions relative to ourselves.  This applies both to the ownership of the club and a significant portion of our fan base.

The depressing thing about this table is that nobody would be surprised if it were the actual prem table at seasons end.

 

IOW success is 99% about how much money you can throw at it and little else, on this basis there really is no fair competition and really no point. 😕

[Madelin21]

Survival end off. Hopefully get away with FFP and then we move mid table next year. Anyone whio hinks we should be challenging for Europe has clearly on been a fan since 2016.