General News

[The Year Of The Fox]

2 minutes ago, purpleronnie said:

I was right then, so much for generalisations  

 

Hows brexit worked out for you, less migrants no doubt?  Oh wait.

 

Bet it wasn't implemented right?

I’ve always said Brexit would take a good 10 years or so to sort itself out and where we start to see the rewards. 
 

You can’t untangle 30-40 year of mess in a sixth of that time.

 

 

[Fox in the North]

7 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Sadly this place is disappointingly centrist. 
 

And I’m pretty sure nobody is calling reform voters thick, everybody knows we’re screwed, we just don’t think that Nigel bloody Farage has the solution. 

I’m not left wing at all. Very much centrist. I just find the specific hate about immigration really odd. There are so many problems in this world, immigration isn’t the smoking gun to it all.

 

I also find it really annoying when the same public figures like Farage can say what they want without any accountability despite the office they apparently hold.

[purpleronnie]

1 minute ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

I’ve always said Brexit would take a good 10 years or so to sort itself out and where we start to see the rewards. 
 

You can’t untangle 30-40 year of mess in a sixth of that time.

 

 

Ok give it 5 more years then.  

 

Out of interest what are the benefits you are expecting?

[Lionator]

Please don’t get personal. I enjoy this thread and want it to stay open. 

[leicsmac]

Just now, Lionator said:

Please don’t get personal. I enjoy this thread and want it to stay open. 

Exactly.

 

Speaking personally, I'd be interested in talking about policy beyond the UK and immigration, too.

[Mike Oxlong]

I'm glad "Prince" Harry went to the US to escape the media spotlight 

[bovril]

7 minutes ago, purpleronnie said:

We have terrible infrastructure in this country.  Tories failed to build all the hospitals they promised.  Brexit increased both legal and illegal immigration.  Of course those figures include students who often leave.

 

Immigration must be matched with investment in UK infrastructure, and there's no reason why it shouldn't be.  Of course you could argue the vast majority work and pay taxes so should have very little impact on infrastructure.

 

I probably shouldn't speak for other people but I think a lot of the resistance to immigration is as much to do with demographic and cultural change as with economic and infrastructure concerns. Immigration sceptics should probably be more honest about that.

[bovril]

1 minute ago, Mike Oxlong said:

I'm glad "Prince" Harry went to the US to escape the media spotlight 

I think one thing all of us on this thread can agree is that Harry Windsor is a big girl

[davieG]

It seems to me we’ve gone from councils being run by, on the face of it none party political rich middle class men to dogmatic party political groups

 

It's a shame it isn't just made of lots of independent conscience led local people with no strong party alliances.

[Foxdiamond]

17 minutes ago, bovril said:

I probably shouldn't speak for other people but I think a lot of the resistance to immigration is as much to do with demographic and cultural change as with economic and infrastructure concerns. Immigration sceptics should probably be more honest about that.

Tend to agree with this. What are the facts concerning social integration?

[SecretPro]

1 hour ago, bovril said:

I probably shouldn't speak for other people but I think a lot of the resistance to immigration is as much to do with demographic and cultural change as with economic and infrastructure concerns. Immigration sceptics should probably be more honest about that.

It has to be that, because like every major economy, the UK makes no economic loss with immigration, in fact most evidence points to a small economic gain. 

 

Basically, lots of people just don't like foreigners is what it boils down to, in the most simplest term. Whether that's innate or bred by media and politicians like Farage is a good question though. 

 

Integration is a myth too. Cultures and communities have always had their 'places'. Most people in the UK don't even bother speaking to their neighbours, let alone those next door but one, because that's the world we live in, so to somehow make out like it's 'oh they don't integrate' is rich at best - and if it really is an issue, then it's an issue on both sides. I don't imagine blokes from Eyres Monsell are chomping at the bit to go and volunteer at a mosque in Evington (and I don't see why that's an issue - I get on perfectly fine on a personal level with the countless Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus I work with, but that doesn't mean I should be going round their houses and getting involved with their social lives does it?). Basically integration doesn't exist on any level anymore, it's an abstract and probably outdated construct to be honest. People of all faiths and nationalities tend to stick to their own small social groups. As long as everyone pays their taxes, respects the law and abides by general politeness I think that's all we can hope for.

 

Should also say, the more you marginalise people, the less likely they are to 'integrate', surely?

Edited 2 May 2025 by SecretPro

[Foxdiamond]

27 minutes ago, SecretPro said:

It has to be that, because like every major economy, the UK makes no economic loss with immigration, in fact most evidence points to a small economic gain. 

 

Basically, lots of people just don't like foreigners is what it boils down to, in the most simplest term. Whether that's innate or bred by media and politicians like Farage is a good question though. 

 

Integration is a myth too. Cultures and communities have always had their 'places'. Most people in the UK don't even bother speaking to their neighbours, let alone those next door but one, because that's the world we live in, so to somehow make out like it's 'oh they don't integrate' is rich at best - and if it really is an issue, then it's an issue on both sides. I don't imagine blokes from Eyres Monsell are chomping at the bit to go and volunteer at a mosque in Evington (and I don't see why that's an issue - I get on perfectly fine on a personal level with the countless Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus I work with, but that doesn't mean I should be going round their houses and getting involved with their social lives does it?). Basically integration doesn't exist on any level anymore, it's an abstract and probably outdated construct to be honest. People of all faiths and nationalities tend to stick to their own small social groups. As long as everyone pays their taxes, respects the law and abides by general politeness I think that's all we can hope for.

 

Should also say, the more you marginalise people, the less likely they are to 'integrate', surely?

In my simple way the points you make about taxes, law and general politeness is the level of integration I hope for

[fox_up_north]

I find myself frustrated by people who champion acceptance and diversity (particularly over trans issues) who readily support immigration of those who hold values diametrically opposed to this. 

 

I feel uncomfortable with the idea that a growing number of people may prosper values in this country which prioritise religious belief over individual expression. I do not believe that religion should hold an importance or sway over society at a political level. 

 

I do not want to provide a home for people who would look down on, or even wish to see harm come to, my friends and family who have different lifestyles. 

 

I do not believe Reform are the answer and Farage's flirting with American Christian right is just as much a concern. 

 

I am mindful of the fact one should always be open to change and consider other ideas, so please do disagree with me if your experiences are to the contrary but those are my views, based on working with immigrants, talking to LGBT people and seeing changes around England. 

[bovril]

1 hour ago, SecretPro said:

It has to be that, because like every major economy, the UK makes no economic loss with immigration, in fact most evidence points to a small economic gain. 

 

Basically, lots of people just don't like foreigners is what it boils down to, in the most simplest term. Whether that's innate or bred by media and politicians like Farage is a good question though. 

 

Integration is a myth too. Cultures and communities have always had their 'places'. Most people in the UK don't even bother speaking to their neighbours, let alone those next door but one, because that's the world we live in, so to somehow make out like it's 'oh they don't integrate' is rich at best - and if it really is an issue, then it's an issue on both sides. I don't imagine blokes from Eyres Monsell are chomping at the bit to go and volunteer at a mosque in Evington (and I don't see why that's an issue - I get on perfectly fine on a personal level with the countless Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus I work with, but that doesn't mean I should be going round their houses and getting involved with their social lives does it?). Basically integration doesn't exist on any level anymore, it's an abstract and probably outdated construct to be honest. People of all faiths and nationalities tend to stick to their own small social groups. As long as everyone pays their taxes, respects the law and abides by general politeness I think that's all we can hope for.

 

Should also say, the more you marginalise people, the less likely they are to 'integrate', surely?

I'm not talking about integration, as you say we're a very atomized society anyway. I'm talking about fear of cultural change, which I think is what causes most unease certainly in Europe towards immigration, particularly towards people from MENA countries.

[urban.spaceman]

2 hours ago, Mike Oxlong said:

I'm glad "Prince" Harry went to the US to escape the media spotlight 

I do like the guy personally but it still irks me that they had the absolute gall to go on global television - a literal Prince and his multimillionaire wife - to tell a billionaire interviewer in the garden of their billionaire friend’s mansion, in the middle of a global pandemic in which billions of people had lost loved ones, or jobs, or homes, to tell us all they’d had a really, really tough time.

 

I mean I know it’s relative but for ****s sake, have a bit of self awareness. 

[urban.spaceman]

Having said that some of the memes were ****ing elite.

 

[SecretPro]

6 hours ago, bovril said:

I'm not talking about integration, as you say we're a very atomized society anyway. I'm talking about fear of cultural change, which I think is what causes most unease certainly in Europe towards immigration, particularly towards people from MENA countries.

Yeah sorry, I wasn't aiming the integration thing at you at all - it's just one of those common arguments that comes up which I think doesn't hold much sway. 

[Md9]

Just another day in America

[Lionator]

7 hours ago, fox_up_north said:

I find myself frustrated by people who champion acceptance and diversity (particularly over trans issues) who readily support immigration of those who hold values diametrically opposed to this. 

 

I feel uncomfortable with the idea that a growing number of people may prosper values in this country which prioritise religious belief over individual expression. I do not believe that religion should hold an importance or sway over society at a political level. 

 

I do not want to provide a home for people who would look down on, or even wish to see harm come to, my friends and family who have different lifestyles. 

 

I do not believe Reform are the answer and Farage's flirting with American Christian right is just as much a concern. 

 

I am mindful of the fact one should always be open to change and consider other ideas, so please do disagree with me if your experiences are to the contrary but those are my views, based on working with immigrants, talking to LGBT people and seeing changes around England. 

This is one of the issues I have with some other people on the left. They’ll go into bat for hardcore Islamist’s with incredibly conservative values that completely contradict everything that they stand for. It’s nearly always morality over practicality. 
 

There’s also some incredibly daft things that happen in this country that leftists keep quiet about. Currently only 42% of British trained junior doctors are getting speciality training because a high percentage of places are getting taken up by more experienced consultants trained and working within the developing world who are happy to do more for less. That to me is insanity and a complete waste of state funding. 
 

So there’s arguments to be had. Like it or not, the economy is set up in a way that it requires immigration and cheap labour (hand in hand). Reform will not solve these issues because they’re ultra capitalists who would thrive in the gig economy. So it’s up to the left to make a coherent argument about how we can change the economic model that benefits the many not the few (remember that line). 

[urban.spaceman]

15 hours ago, leicsmac said:

And a quick reminder about the person that Farage et al carry water for:

 

 

 

20 minutes ago, Md9 said:

Just another day in America

Absolutely unhinged. 

[Md9]

9 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

Absolutely unhinged. 

I am hoping he doesn’t make it through the 4 years he is in charge for as it already feels like he has been in charge for ever but I feel like he is going to live until he is 300 or something. An asteroid could hit the White House with him in it and him and musk would walk out laughing 

[leicsmac]

17 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

Absolutely unhinged. 

I have no idea why both Labour and (to a lesser extent) the Tories are not absolutely going after Reform/Farage for their ideological alignment with the Trump administration. What's stopping them?

 

Surely "Vote Reform, get Trump" or something along those lines, along with consistently pointing out the obvious links, would be a fair angle to shoot?

[davieG]

8 minutes ago, Md9 said:

I am hoping he doesn’t make it through the 4 years he is in charge for as it already feels like he has been in charge for ever but I feel like he is going to live until he is 300 or something. An asteroid could hit the White House with him in it and him and musk would walk out laughing 

......and say it's proof his plans are working.

[davieG]

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/local-news/uncertain-future-awaits-leicestershire-no-10153210

 

An uncertain future awaits Leicestershire as no party takes political control
The Conservatives suffered huge losses today, while Reform stormed ahead

ByHannah RichardsonLocal Democracy Reporter
18:50, 2 MAY 2025

 

Leicestershire’s political future looks uncertain after the Conservatives lost their grip on power. Control of Leicestershire County Council has been in Conservative hands for the past 24 years.

But, in one day, the party has lost not just that control, but also its position as the largest group on the authority, going from 42 seats in 2021, to just 15. Reform UK came away as the winners of this year’s vote, with 25 new councillors elected.

However, that figure was not enough to secure a majority, leaving questions over what will happen next. Will parties join together to form a coalition either with Reform, or to keep them out of leadership? Or will Reform, as the largest party by some way, try to run the council from a minority position?

 

 

Questions also remain over what exactly Reform intends to do if it does take on the running of the authority. The party has previously promised a top-to-bottom audit of the county council’s finances in a bid to identify and cut any wasteful spending.

But, until that is complete, the party has said it cannot make any other promises to the public over what council services and support will look like going forwards. Leicestershire County Council has long been recognised as the worst-funded county authority in the country, and its former Conservative leaders have prided themselves on what they say is an efficient approach to spending. We will just have to wait and see what an audit throws up – and what comes afterwards.

So why did the party make the gains it has both in Leicestershire and across the country? The answer to that seems to be that people are fed up and they want change when it comes to their political leaders.

 

When we went out in Loughborough with Nigel Farage this week, that is exactly what people were telling us. They feel let down by Labour and by the Conservatives, and they like what they are hearing from the Reform leader.

Many, it seems, have not forgotten the events that mired the final years of the Tories' time at the head of Westminster, including Liz Truss' short-lived reign which crashed the economy and the lack of honesty around the partygate scandal. As MP Peter Bedford told us at the count on Friday (May 2), trust in the Conservatives is gone for a lot of people and, so far, those in Westminster have not done what they need to to win that back.

The first months of Labour’s time at the top of Westminster has not gone smoothly either. Leicestershire’s rural communities are angry over the changes to inheritance tax for farmers, and small businesses feel the same about the changes to employer National Insurance contributions. That was recognised at counts today, with Labour’s Jewel Miah telling us the “national picture” has impacted on them.

The main takeaway from today, however, seems to be that we will just have to wait and see what the future holds for the county, and for politics nationally.

[urban.spaceman]

7 minutes ago, Md9 said:

I am hoping he doesn’t make it through the 4 years he is in charge for as it already feels like he has been in charge for ever but I feel like he is going to live until he is 300 or something. An asteroid could hit the White House with him in it and him and musk would walk out laughing 

Unfortunately only the good die young. Evil ****ers like Musk and Trump are like cockroaches. Even Farage survived a ****ing plane crash. Proof to me that there’s either no god, or there is one and he’s just a ****. 
 

I still stand by my belief that Trump will not serve his full term, one way or another, though.