General News Thread

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, Wymsey said:

True, but look at some currently in prison in this country for a few posts made on Social Media.

 

Am sure Alex Belfield would agree..

He was a stalker ?

if you’re referencing those convicted last summer after the ‘race riots’ then assume the point is that those people were posting stuff on SM that could be acted upon by others and seen as immediate incitement.  There is no likelihood of any person in that crowd yesterday attacking a member of the IDF as an immediate consequence of the performance.  The BBC were responsible for broadcasting to an audience who might be in a position to do so around the world.  Vylan can claim this is not his problem and context means he’s guilty of no crime. 

[Wymsey]

3 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

He was a stalker ?

if you’re referencing those convicted last summer after the ‘race riots’ then assume the point is that those people were posting stuff on SM that could be acted upon by others and seen as immediate incitement.  There is no likelihood of any person in that crowd yesterday attacking a member of the IDF as an immediate consequence of the performance.  The BBC were responsible for broadcasting to an audience who might be in a position to do so around the world.  Vylan can claim this is not his problem and context means he’s guilty of no crime. 

Yes, but he detested one of his recent YouTube bans and mentioned a particular person who is in prison for certain tweets who some claim is an unfair sentence on that individual - particularly when many certain others get away without such punishment for saying things that would 'stir the pot' politically etc.

Edited 29 June 2025 by Wymsey

[Muzzy_no7]

2 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

F’ing disgusting and embarrassing 

[Tommy G]

19 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Perhaps they don’t pay much for the rights to broadcast?? 

you could say the same for the World Cup, Wimbledon, Chelsea flower show etc etc 

 

Very much doubt it 

free speech and all that 

And it’s an entity rather than a person or people that he’s chanting about. It’s extremely distasteful but can’t see a prosecution - the cps would also worry that a jury would acquit, irrespective of the evidence and the law. 

I guess it depends on what the free speech is about? It’s the U.K. after all. 
 

I’m really surprised anyone is defending it tbh 

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, Tommy G said:

I guess it depends on what the free speech is about? It’s the U.K. after all. 
 

I’m really surprised anyone is defending it tbh 

I think there are a lot of people who would defend it.  but it’s simplistic and pretty vile.  

Not sure that the organisers have a defence - they must know the background of the  bands they are booking. TBH, I’m more concerned with the quality of our national broadcaster. They’ve been found wanting many times recently with their journalism and the fact that the director yesterday failed to react by pulling the plug on the feed is shameful.  What would it take for a reaction ?  
 

 If this is what the bbc is content to put out then some would ask how can govt point the finger at some of the on line platforms and their lack of action. 

[Muzzy_no7]

19 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

I guess it depends on what the free speech is about? It’s the U.K. after all. 
 

I’m really surprised anyone is defending it tbh 

Me too.

 

It’s inciting Violence and racial hatred, for me. Clear offences under PA Act and Serious Crime Act. 

Edited 29 June 2025 by Muzzy_no7

[MadsEmil]

27 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

There is no likelihood of any person in that crowd yesterday attacking a member of the IDF as an immediate consequence of the performance

I wouldn't be too sure about that.

 

Just a couple weeks ago a plot was uncovered which involved drugging/ poisoning anyone perceived as Israeli at a music festival in Portugal. 

 

Or just think back to the riots in Amsterdam after that European fixture where anyone unable to sufficiently prove they weren't Israeli was beaten up/ run over and whatnot, including Ukrainian tourists.

 

People these days more than ever are willing to get violent, the threshold decreasing constantly. I'd argue that threshold is non-existent when you're in a crowd, part of a hivemind echoing what someone on a stage says.

[MadsEmil]

2 minutes ago, Muzzy_no7 said:

Me too.

 

It’s inciting Violence and racial hatred, for me. Clear offences under PA Act and Serious Crime Act. 

Cognitive dissonance.

 

Through hatred spread on social media and in the news they've fully convinced themselves they're in the right and may apply any means necessary. 

[Muzzy_no7]

4 minutes ago, MadsEmil said:

Cognitive dissonance.

 

Through hatred spread on social media and in the news they've fully convinced themselves they're in the right and may apply any means necessary. 

Sooner that group are proscribed and clamped down on the better for this country and its people. 

[leicsmac]

"A man once jumped from the top floor of a burning house in which many members of his family had already perished. He managed to save his life; but as he was falling he hit a person standing down below and broke that person’s legs and arms. The jumping man had no choice; yet to the man with the broken limbs he was the cause of his misfortune. If both behaved rationally, they would not become enemies. The man who escaped from the blazing house, having recovered, would have tried to help and console the other sufferer; and the latter might have realized that he was the victim of circumstances over which neither of them had control. But look what happens when these people behave irrationally. The injured man blames the other for his misery and swears to make him pay for it. The other, afraid of the crippled man’s revenge, insults him, kicks him, and beats him up whenever they meet. The kicked man again swears revenge and is again punched and punished. The bitter enmity, so fortuitous at first, hardens and comes to overshadow the whole existence of both men and to poison their minds."

 

— Isaac Deutscher

[st albans fox]

30 minutes ago, MadsEmil said:

I wouldn't be too sure about that.

 

Just a couple weeks ago a plot was uncovered which involved drugging/ poisoning anyone perceived as Israeli at a music festival in Portugal. 

 

Or just think back to the riots in Amsterdam after that European fixture where anyone unable to sufficiently prove they weren't Israeli was beaten up/ run over and whatnot, including Ukrainian tourists.

 

People these days more than ever are willing to get violent, the threshold decreasing constantly. I'd argue that threshold is non-existent when you're in a crowd, part of a hivemind echoing what someone on a stage says.

I’m aware of the incidents you refer to 

but surely vylan can claim to only be responsible for affecting the crowd in front of him and at that venue there was very little if any chance that an identifiable member of the IDF would be present. 

[st albans fox]

16 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

"A man once jumped from the top floor of a burning house in which many members of his family had already perished. He managed to save his life; but as he was falling he hit a person standing down below and broke that person’s legs and arms. The jumping man had no choice; yet to the man with the broken limbs he was the cause of his misfortune. If both behaved rationally, they would not become enemies. The man who escaped from the blazing house, having recovered, would have tried to help and console the other sufferer; and the latter might have realized that he was the victim of circumstances over which neither of them had control. But look what happens when these people behave irrationally. The injured man blames the other for his misery and swears to make him pay for it. The other, afraid of the crippled man’s revenge, insults him, kicks him, and beats him up whenever they meet. The kicked man again swears revenge and is again punched and punished. The bitter enmity, so fortuitous at first, hardens and comes to overshadow the whole existence of both men and to poison their minds."

 

— Isaac Deutscher

Not often that we have Marxists quoted on here Mac !

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Not often that we have Marxists quoted on here Mac !

I think it's an accurate metaphor for the way the situation began, and the way it continues. The provenance in that way isn't relevant. 

[Torquay Gunner]

Let’s put this into context shall we.

 

 

[bovril]

13 minutes ago, Torquay Gunner said:

Let’s put this into context shall we.

 

 

it was entirely predictable that precisely this would be the excuse. Let's hope though it sticks, and we have no more investigations into any "hurry words" hate crimes because, you know, people are dying elsewhere. 

[Torquay Gunner]

5 minutes ago, bovril said:

it was entirely predictable that precisely this would be the excuse. Let's hope though it sticks, and we have no more investigations into any "hurry words" hate crimes because, you know, people are dying elsewhere. 

Don’t think it’s supposed to be an actual excuse.  “Elsewhere” is indeed the problem.

[leicsmac]

7 hours ago, bovril said:

it was entirely predictable that precisely this would be the excuse. Let's hope though it sticks, and we have no more investigations into any "hurry words" hate crimes because, you know, people are dying elsewhere. 

 

6 hours ago, Torquay Gunner said:

Don’t think it’s supposed to be an actual excuse.  “Elsewhere” is indeed the problem.

It is rather odd that quite a few talking heads (both media-prevalent and otherwise) appear to be more outraged about one than the other though.

 

I mean, when was the last time 'almost 60000 people killed in ongoing war' made the same sensationalist headlines in certain media outlets as this rather unsavoury incident is doing today?

Edited 30 June 2025 by leicsmac

[fox_up_north]

I saw Bob Vylan years ago as I'm punk scene adjacent. They're from the absolutely cringe British school of punk that goes for easy wins of "down with the Tories" and sounds dreadful.

 

What Americans did with the genre was far more interesting. We should stick to metal, dance and indie. 

[Mickyblueeyes]

The IDF are a murderous, child killing machine. With no morals or ethics. They’ve killed, ridiculed, abused etc. millions of people without any recourse. Led by a terrorist government entity. 
 

HOWEVER, in my opinion, we cannot make it ok at any time, under any circumstances to make statements/chants like that ok. Ever. And that doesn’t mean I’m on the “keep political statements” out of gigs/sport whatever. I’m saying, if you have a platform, there needs to be responsibility. You just can’t control the repercussions of not being careful and with language. 
 

 

[Trav Le Bleu]

If you're calling for the IDF to stop their slaughter (cos that's what it is), fine.

 

If you're calling for them to die, then you're just as bad as them.

 

If you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem.

[MadsEmil]

Guess Bob Vylan's U.S tour will have to wait because an intl. correspondant just confirmed his US visa has been revoked.

 

Not that the Trump admin needs any reason to ban you from the country besides a picture of an obese VP on your phone.

 

Still, seems Bob is currently firmly in the find out phase.

[Lionator]

4 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

If you're calling for the IDF to stop their slaughter (cos that's what it is), fine.

 

If you're calling for them to die, then you're just as bad as them.

 

If you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem.

The argument is that the only way to stop them is for people to physically stop them and obviously unarmed, starving Palestinian civilians can’t do that and nobody else will so the slaughter will continue indefinitely. 
 

While I wouldn’t have said what Bob vylan said, the leadership behind the actions of the IDF is the worst of the worst and the sheer evil and idiocy of the Hamas actions of October 7th gave Netanyahu the excuse he needed to finally aim to exterminate the people that live in Gaza, as that’s what will keep him in power and out of prison.

[st albans fox]

2 minutes ago, Lionator said:

aim to exterminate the people that live in Gaza, as that’s what will keep him in power and out of prison.

come on man - no one is actually exterminating any race or group of people anywhere in the world atm. 
 

language is important 

 

Question to the many who have a deep hatred for netenyahu and his politics. 
 

would the Israeli state abandoning his corruption trial be a price worth paying for his removal from power via elections or even resignation  ??  (Of course for now, his warrant by the ICC remains valid) 

 

I’m wondering if this is path we are about to see trodden ??   

[CosbehFox]

19 hours ago, Wymsey said:

True, but look at some currently in prison in this country for a few posts made on Social Media.

 

Am sure Alex Belfield would agree..

Don't think Belfield is anywhere near a comparison here - he was in prison for stalking (he's been released). The Police officer investigated him successfully won a libel case against him because of the untruth nonsense Belfield was spreading about him to which Belfield apologised. 

[Lionator]

25 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

come on man - no one is actually exterminating any race or group of people anywhere in the world atm. 
 

language is important 

 

Question to the many who have a deep hatred for netenyahu and his politics. 
 

would the Israeli state abandoning his corruption trial be a price worth paying for his removal from power via elections or even resignation  ??  (Of course for now, his warrant by the ICC remains valid) 

 

I’m wondering if this is path we are about to see trodden ??   

Blockading all food into a place sounds like an attempt at that? Let alone the mass artillery strikes at those queueing for the limited food amounts let in. People will obviously disagree (and that’s fine) so I won’t argue too much.

 

As for the second part, at this point it would be very likely his replacement would be similar, although it seems the other party pre 2023 were a lot more willing to engage.