General News Thread

[AKCJ]

19 minutes ago, Lcfcbl said:

I said, in the first instance, 20 quid to see the GP. I never mentioned health insurance. Been derailed straight away by two people without actually acknowledging the point I was making.

Because the point you were making is daft. It's likely to cost well over 5 times that amount to see a private doctor.

 

Bupa for instance charge £200 for a 45 minute appointment and this is while they're competing against the NHS. Take away free healthcare and the prices will skyrocket.

Edited 15 September 2025 by AKCJ

[Tommy G]

11 minutes ago, Greg2607 said:

I suspect it's two-fold - Firstly... the way most of us structure our lives, is that we live just within our means... if there is a sudden additional cost, given the challenges that lots of people have around the cost of living, then it may tip lots of people over the top in terms of affordability.  It also disproportionately impacts the poorest in society, who are most likely to be unable to afford it.  Do they just have to forgo medical care? 

 

Secondly, and this will be the biggest issue...   People won't like having something "taken off of them".... I mean jesus.... we tried to adjust the Winter Fuel Allowance so that only those who REALLY needed it were affected and the UK nearly went into meltdown... as it did when it was proposed that benefits needed reforming... people don't like the idea that they will be "losing out".... 

 

now personally, I am not against private healthcare, I happen to have it through my job....  but if we are suddenly going to expect employers to pay private health insurance for their staff... there will be uproar (they couldn't afford the additional NI don't forget) OR we are asking people to pay for it out of their own pocket and there will be uproar there again. 

 

Populations don't generally like large scale and immediate change. 

What you could do is make a GP appointment for say £20/£30, but it's free if you are in receipt of certain benefits - that then shoulders the cost onto who can actually afford it, and means the poorest in society still have access to a GP.

 

I've got private healthcare too - it's not all its cracked up to be - it's £100 excess per treatment for starters, secondly you have to get referred for everything which is time consuming - and they have a list of exclusions with coverage, it's not some gold plated product people think it is - still can't get a GP appointment!

 

 

[StanSP]

Just now, Lcfcbl said:

Again, I refer to my point of £20 (example fee) to see a GP. I never mentioned private hospitals, that's a wider debate. I don't interact a lot on this forum but read a lot and unfortunately this seems a common theme of trying to shut a person/conversation down by just ignoring a point made and changing the argument.

But it's part of the argument. A wider one too, but the alternative currently is private hospitals to pay for healthcare. It's just a comparison. It's not a dismissal of your points/questions. 

[Tommy G]

Just now, AKCJ said:

Because the point you were making is daft. It's likely to cost well over 5 times that amount to see a private doctor.

 

Bupa for instance charge £200 for a 45 minute appointment.

You are missing his point - £20 to see a NHS Dr - forget private, it would stop people bunking off appointments and make them think twice for booking them if they have a cough. It would also raise some much needed revenue for the government. 

 

It's hard for people to make valid points on here before they are jumped on without reading the post properly. Tiring 

[StanSP]

Just now, Tommy G said:

What you could do is make a GP appointment for say £20/£30, but it's free if you are in receipt of certain benefits - that then shoulders the cost onto who can actually afford it, and means the poorest in society still have access to a GP.

Would you not see a similar scenario as to what happened with the energy welfare payment? Those who just miss the cut off/threshold will be hit the hardest and feel the impact more just because they earn £5 or £10 more than the threshold? 

 

I think it's breaking something that doesn't need fixing. Or at least not fixing in such a way. If better/more funding was put into the NHS it would appear less broken and take funding from elsewhere (now that is another argument/debate as to where from!!) 

[Greg2607]

1 minute ago, Tommy G said:

What you could do is make a GP appointment for say £20/£30, but it's free if you are in receipt of certain benefits - that then shoulders the cost onto who can actually afford it, and means the poorest in society still have access to a GP.

 

I've got private healthcare too - it's not all its cracked up to be - it's £100 excess per treatment for starters, secondly you have to get referred for everything which is time consuming - and they have a list of exclusions with coverage, it's not some gold plated product people think it is - still can't get a GP appointment!

 

 

and I don't necessarily disagree with an element of means testing for the NHS.   For example... if you are a higher rate tax payer, then sure, let's pay a charge for seeing a GP... In theory, we are the ones that can shoulder that burden a little bit more. 

 

is there a definitive "stop" on that though? do we then say that the middle class should be able to pay for certain procedures?  I'm not sure i'd agree with that, but if the direction of travel starts in a direction, it very rarely reverses.... 

 

I also suspect middle England would be in absolute uproar though.... it would be a little bit like adding VAT to private school fee's for instance.... 

[Tommy G]

Just now, StanSP said:

Would you not see a similar scenario as to what happened with the energy welfare payment? Those who just miss the cut off/threshold will be hit the hardest and feel the impact more just because they earn £5 or £10 more than the threshold? 

 

I think it's breaking something that doesn't need fixing. Or at least not fixing in such a way. If better/more funding was put into the NHS it would appear less broken and take funding from elsewhere (now that is another argument/debate as to where from!!) 

You mean the winter fuel allowance? The policy they brought in and rowed back on because it was a farce. They wen't too far with it and that was the problem. 

 

I'm sure the average person has maybe 2/3 GP appointments a year, and it isn't unreasonable to ask someone who isn't on means tested benefits to pay that. Its not even a halfway house to privatisation, we are asking everyone to be in this together and pay their way - I'm saying this should be a policy for labour to bring in now - and I don't think it would be as unpopular as you think.   

[AKCJ]

Just now, Tommy G said:

You are missing his point - £20 to see a NHS Dr - forget private, it would stop people bunking off appointments and make them think twice for booking them if they have a cough. It would also raise some much needed revenue for the government. 

 

It's hard for people to make valid points on here before they are jumped on without reading the post properly. Tiring 

It won't cost £20!!! That is just a fantasy that people like Nigel Farage will keep spewing to try and make the switch from national to private healthcare more palatable for the average citizen.

 

It's like me saying to you, "Why don't you spend a fortnight in the Bahamas for your next holiday? It'll only cost you a fiver".

[Tommy G]

2 minutes ago, Greg2607 said:

and I don't necessarily disagree with an element of means testing for the NHS.   For example... if you are a higher rate tax payer, then sure, let's pay a charge for seeing a GP... In theory, we are the ones that can shoulder that burden a little bit more. 

 

is there a definitive "stop" on that though? do we then say that the middle class should be able to pay for certain procedures?  I'm not sure i'd agree with that, but if the direction of travel starts in a direction, it very rarely reverses.... 

 

I also suspect middle England would be in absolute uproar though.... it would be a little bit like adding VAT to private school fee's for instance.... 

Agree with part of this Greg but if you are paying £25K to send your kind to a private school that adds on £5k of VAT, not £20 for a GP appointment. The scale of uproar would be a lot less. 

 

I am actually suggesting a policy this is a bit left here and you can see the reaction....

[Tommy G]

1 minute ago, AKCJ said:

It won't cost £20!!! That is just a fantasy that people like Nigel Farage will keep spewing to try and make the switch from national to private healthcare more palatable for the average citizen.

 

It's like me saying to you, "Why don't you spend a fortnight in the Bahamas for your next holiday? It'll only cost you a fiver".

Seriously, you think I think it costs £20? I am not talking about the actual cost here I'm talking about a flat contribution to see a GP. At the moment it is free, and I'm suggesting a flat fee of £20 or £30 should be paid. Why is that difficult to understand?

 

Can someone else explain this to him @Greg2607 

[Greg2607]

1 minute ago, Tommy G said:

You mean the winter fuel allowance? The policy they brought in and rowed back on because it was a farce. They wen't too far with it and that was the problem. 

 

I'm sure the average person has maybe 2/3 GP appointments a year, and it isn't unreasonable to ask someone who isn't on means tested benefits to pay that. Its not even a halfway house to privatisation, we are asking everyone to be in this together and pay their way - I'm saying this should be a policy for labour to bring in now - and I don't think it would be as unpopular as you think.   

you might be right there's a chance it wouldn't be that unpopular and it may reduce some of the burden on GP's...... but wasn't the cut off for WFA, that any pensioner who wasn't on means tested benefits, would have to pay for their own heating? ... that didn't land particularly well if I recall correctly. 

[Lcfcbl]

Let me try to get back to my original point. Fortunately, I've not had to see the GP in the last 18 months, I have been to the pharmacist on a couple of occasions and paid £6/7 quid for medical products (not blue tablets). I'll be honest and admit that I was in Home Farm Pharmacy in Beauy if anyone knows it and I was a little pissed off that there was a guy in there clearly receiving drug replacement products for free whilst I was paying. On reflection later on, I had ignored the other person and wondered why I was annoyed that I had paid for my health, arguably the most important thing we have, when I would think nothing of going opposite and getting a chicken meal for the same price. This is where this stemmed from, not any party politics etc just a reflection that in this country we seem to be anti paying for healthcare, which we do indirectly through taxation, and I wanted a wider discussion whether this was culturally unique to Brits or whether people had actually thought outside the box about this. I think Greg was correct in his initial response that it's basically all we have ever known and we wouldn't like it taking away (I'm not saying that was his sole point but it touched on that). Hope this makes more sense, just wanted a honest discussion without it getting into the usual left/right must take sides nonsense we seem to have a lot.

[Tommy G]

Just now, Greg2607 said:

you might be right there's a chance it wouldn't be that unpopular and it may reduce some of the burden on GP's...... but wasn't the cut off for WFA, that any pensioner who wasn't on means tested benefits, would have to pay for their own heating? ... that didn't land particularly well if I recall correctly. 

There's clearly going to be quite a few people out of scope here - I'm not drafting policy, merely suggesting a way the better off in society can a) pay towards the NHS and b) take the burden off GPs - as it will ultimately make people think twice about seeing one. 

[Greg2607]

1 minute ago, Lcfcbl said:

Let me try to get back to my original point. Fortunately, I've not had to see the GP in the last 18 months, I have been to the pharmacist on a couple of occasions and paid £6/7 quid for medical products (not blue tablets). I'll be honest and admit that I was in Home Farm Pharmacy in Beauy if anyone knows it and I was a little pissed off that there was a guy in there clearly receiving drug replacement products for free whilst I was paying. On reflection later on, I had ignored the other person and wondered why I was annoyed that I had paid for my health, arguably the most important thing we have, when I would think nothing of going opposite and getting a chicken meal for the same price. This is where this stemmed from, not any party politics etc just a reflection that in this country we seem to be anti paying for healthcare, which we do indirectly through taxation, and I wanted a wider discussion whether this was culturally unique to Brits or whether people had actually thought outside the box about this. I think Greg was correct in his initial response that it's basically all we have ever known and we wouldn't like it taking away (I'm not saying that was his sole point but it touched on that). Hope this makes more sense, just wanted a honest discussion without it getting into the usual left/right must take sides nonsense we seem to have a lot.

no you are right, that was my basic premise.... people will generally want to feel like their livs are improving rather than going the other way... and losing out on free healthcare, for most, would feel like a retrograde step. 

[st albans fox]

Sexually explicit emails about Diane Abbott???

 

am I missing something?

[AKCJ]

3 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Seriously, you think I think it costs £20? I am not talking about the actual cost here I'm talking about a flat contribution to see a GP. At the moment it is free, and I'm suggesting a flat fee of £20 or £30 should be paid. Why is that difficult to understand?

 

Can someone else explain this to him @Greg2607 

Why do you think a flat fee of £20 or £30 would be what it would cost? I'd love for that to be the case. I'm sure we all would. However, it's completely unrealistic.

 

It's more likely to be 10 times that amount. Would you still be happy?

[Tommy G]

Quick maths suggest there was 380 million GP appointments last year, charging for every single one at £20 a pop would raise almost £8bn for the NHS.

 

Before anyone jumps on my back and gouges my eye balls from their sockets, lets assume only 50% are chargeable, so that would raise £4bn approx.   

[Tommy G]

1 minute ago, AKCJ said:

Why do you think a flat fee of £20 or £30 would be what it would cost? I'd love for that to be the case. I'm sure we all would. However, it's completely unrealistic.

 

It's more likely to be 10 times that amount. Would you still be happy?

Jesus I give up

[leicesterlad1989]

If paying £20 meant I got an appointment when required, I wouldn't be against it but in general GPs are shite. The common practice for a GP is to refer people to the hospital anyway. So it begs the question - what am I paying for? I honestly feel like GPs need to up their game first but I appreciate it's like a vicious cycle, with lack of funding etc so this could be a way to generate more money. 

 

I don't think it's a bad idea but as others have said, most wouldn't support.

I certainly do not support privatisation of the NHS in general, which I know wasn't what was asked.

 

[StanSP]

6 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Sexually explicit emails about Diane Abbott???

 

am I missing something?

Sorry we're discussing something else right now 

 

 

 

 

[AKCJ]

Just now, Tommy G said:

Jesus I give up

The whole "Oh we'd all pay a small fee for a GP appointment, wouldn't we?" is the sort of misinformation that makes people think that private healthcare is a good thing.

 

It'll cost far more than that, the demand will still be very high, the quality will not improve and the poorest will be hit the hardest.

[Greg2607]

9 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Sexually explicit emails about Diane Abbott???

 

am I missing something?

this sounds like something that @Dr The Singh would have some expertise in. 

[JonnyBoy]

21 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

You are missing his point - £20 to see a NHS Dr - forget private, it would stop people bunking off appointments and make them think twice for booking them if they have a cough. It would also raise some much needed revenue for the government. 

 

It's hard for people to make valid points on here before they are jumped on without reading the post properly. Tiring 

 

Ahh yes reminds me of when i said people could save a bit more money by not going on an abroad holiday or having a car on finance, but got twisted into "you could save a house deposit by stopping coffee and Netflix subcriptions". Peak foxestalk 

[leicsmac]

I think NHS reform and immigration reform, along with a couple of other areas, do fall under the idea where changing things up is a good idea in principle but in practice (given the extremity of viewpoints that can gain traction now) the slippery slope will take full effect and you will end up with a system where a great many people end up suffering and dying just because a few powerful people wanted it that way. 

[StanSP]

Having said that, I've just looked it up and it's despicable how targeted Abbott has been over the years. 

 

Starmer has to pick better advisers too (I know Ovenden has already resigned/left). 

 

Even so, it's bad enough facing shit from your opposition, but to have it from your own party is arguably even worse.