General News Thread

[Zear0]

23 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Immigration was never the problem as much as the media and the right will have you believe. But numbers are down to their lowest since 2012.

 

Let's see how the media play this one... 

2x the population of Leicester immigrated here in 2025 down from 4x in 2023 (1.5mil).  There are people who think anything more than 1 is too much, but the recent figures are insane for a population of 70mil people.

[Trav Le Bleu]

10 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

2x the population of Leicester immigrated here in 2025 down from 4x in 2023 (1.5mil).  There are people who think anything more than 1 is too much, but the recent figures are insane for a population of 70mil people.

The vast majority of them totally legally.

[Trav Le Bleu]

6 hours ago, davieG said:

What an absolute shit show this has been and continues to be.

And to think, this country invented this and successfully ran railways as the mass transport of common people for over a century.

[Zear0]

Just now, Trav Le Bleu said:

The vast majority of them totally legally.

Legal/Illegal I don't really care.  The inference that any criticism or suggestion that immigration makes you racist and will be spun by some dark forces in the press just diminishes any concerns people have.  It's going the same way of the gender debate where if you don't walk some incredibly thin and variable line you're just labelled a bigot and ignored. We're losing the ability to have any form of political discussion negating any sort of compromise or agreeable position is making the country more and more ungovernable and moving us closing to the insanity of the US system.

 

We need to not be dragged down to the level of the more unlettered posters here with lazy quips (that aren't even funny) that contribute absolutely nothing to the discussion.

[davieG]

38 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

And to think, this country invented this and successfully ran railways as the mass transport of common people for over a century.

I’ve been watching Portilo’s Japanese trading journeys and they seem to knock up HS lines regularly in fact many countries seem to have them. 
Every thing we do here is a drama even a bit of road upgrading means it’s shut for weeks even months. 

[Trav Le Bleu]

3 hours ago, Zear0 said:

Legal/Illegal I don't really care.  The inference that any criticism or suggestion that immigration makes you racist and will be spun by some dark forces in the press just diminishes any concerns people have.  It's going the same way of the gender debate where if you don't walk some incredibly thin and variable line you're just labelled a bigot and ignored. We're losing the ability to have any form of political discussion negating any sort of compromise or agreeable position is making the country more and more ungovernable and moving us closing to the insanity of the US system.

 

We need to not be dragged down to the level of the more unlettered posters here with lazy quips (that aren't even funny) that contribute absolutely nothing to the discussion.

Handbags!

 

My point was that the powers that be are constantly banging on about "the small boats", when that is such a small problem compared to the fact that we have to get immigrants in because your average UK teenager wants to be a TikTok influencer or on reality TV.

 

There are two reasons that immigration is happening. Socio-economic hardship in foreign countries (often exacerbated by Western influences) and skill shortages, which creates a void - and voids will inherently get filled.

 

There's no magic button that's going to stop either of these things. Even if there was, it would create a whole different set of problems.

 

The whole immigration/racism problem is...

 

Is everyone who is anti-immigration racist? No.

 

Is everyone who is racist anti-immigration? Yes.

 

Actually, more specifically they're anti-immigrant. Besides which, there's a level of hypocrisy in the argument where it's ok for Brits to go to other countries (and retain all their UK services), but not for people to come here and use ours (despite paying into the system).

 

So is it worth pointing out that the problem (such as there might be one) isn't the one that gets played out day in day out by the media and certain politicians.

Edited 22 May by Trav Le Bleu

[CornwallFox]

Government backing future British 'defence unicorns' as new contracts awarded to drive innovation - GOV.UK https://share.google/hyZXpGvc1WRl7MDkk

 

Backing small British firms via defense procurement is a good thing I'd say

[CornwallFox]

7 hours ago, Zear0 said:

Legal/Illegal I don't really care.  The inference that any criticism or suggestion that immigration makes you racist and will be spun by some dark forces in the press just diminishes any concerns people have.  It's going the same way of the gender debate where if you don't walk some incredibly thin and variable line you're just labelled a bigot and ignored. We're losing the ability to have any form of political discussion negating any sort of compromise or agreeable position is making the country more and more ungovernable and moving us closing to the insanity of the US system.

 

We need to not be dragged down to the level of the more unlettered posters here with lazy quips (that aren't even funny) that contribute absolutely nothing to the discussion.

You are correct but the same thing happens on left and right. 

 

The left shouts racism too quickly. 

The right has gone down the American route of shouting about "lefties", "socialists", "owning the libs" etc. 

 

I don't disagree with your analysis of political discourse, I'm just balancing it with a left wing slant on agreeing the general theme.

 

What I struggle with is that right wing arguments constantly involve refusing to engage with facts, detailed analysis or scientific testing, and prefers "common sense" arguments which are generally nonsense. 

 

That said, on the specific subject of immigration, I think the left is in a weak position. That's nothing inherently good or right about immigration. So I'm not sure why it is almost treated like a moral imperative on the left at the moment. 

 

Tbh I think it is more a reaction to how the right has been talking about it in recent years. Not everybody on the right, but more and more big personalities. And when you read under the article comments across right wing media the content is frankly shocking. There is a huge problem with outright racism. 

 

That isn't to say that's it's racist to be concerned about immigration, or to think it should be lower. imo there clearly is an issue with small boats that needs solving. We're starting to possibly see progress so let's hope that continues.

 

When it comes to legal migration there must be a middle ground that could be found between left and right. And you're right to highlight that language causes a rift that stops us finding these solutions. Both sides need to draw breath but the only real way common ground can be found is to really think deeply about what we need as a country, have an honest discussion about the positives and negatives of immigration, to arrive at the closest to consensus we could reach.

 

As a leftie open to having that discussion, I struggle to see anybody powerful on the right who is up for really analysing the issue for honest debate though, unfortunately. I'm not sure the same could be said about starmar and co, who I suspect would love to be able to have a conversation of this sort. 

Edited 22 May by CornwallFox

[leicsmac]

4 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Handbags!

 

My point was that the powers that be are constantly banging on about "the small boats", when that is such a small problem compared to the fact that we have to get immigrants in because your average UK teenager wants to be a TikTok influencer or on reality TV.

 

There are two reasons that immigration is happening. Socio-economic hardship in foreign countries (often exacerbated by Western influences) and skill shortages, which creates a void - and voids will inherently get filled.

 

There's no magic button that's going to stop either of these things. Even if there was, it would create a whole different set of problems.

 

The whole immigration/racism problem is...

 

Is everyone who is anti-immigration racist? No.

 

Is everyone who is racist anti-immigration? Yes.

 

Actually, more specifically they're anti-immigrant. Besides which, there's a level of hypocrisy in the argument where it's ok for Brits to go to other countries (and retain all their UK services), but not for people to come here and use ours (despite paying into the system).

 

So is it worth pointing out that the problem (such as there might be one) isn't the one that gets played out day in day out by the media and certain politicians.

And those hardships show no signs of going away.

 

Said it before but I'll say it again; any debate involving immigration that doesn't involve addressing the root causes isn't really "solving" it at all, or it is solving it only in the way that the beholder thinks that it's acceptable for a great many people to be abandoned to their (often horrible) fate simply because they're "not them".

[Innovindil]

2 hours ago, CornwallFox said:

Government backing future British 'defence unicorns' as new contracts awarded to drive innovation - GOV.UK https://share.google/hyZXpGvc1WRl7MDkk

 

Backing small British firms via defense procurement is a good thing I'd say

Going to keep an eye on this with great interest. Something I've supported for a long time. 

 

Interesting that half the firms are new to defense though. Should be entertaining. There's a big difference between making something that goes broom broom and something that goes boom boom. 

 

That said, will such a small investment, it would only need one of these companies to know what they're doing to pay for the whole initiative over time. 

[leicsmac]

7 hours ago, davieG said:

I’ve been watching Portilo’s Japanese trading journeys and they seem to knock up HS lines regularly in fact many countries seem to have them. 
Every thing we do here is a drama even a bit of road upgrading means it’s shut for weeks even months. 

Again, repeating a point made before, but pretty much all of East Asia in terms of public transport infrastructure puts the UK to shame. 

 

Trying to run a 21st century service on 19th century infrastructure isn't going to end well, and we didn't upgrade when we had the chance due to lack of foresight, ideology, or both. 

[leicsmac]

8 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Going to keep an eye on this with great interest. Something I've supported for a long time. 

 

Interesting that half the firms are new to defense though. Should be entertaining. There's a big difference between making something that goes broom broom and something that goes boom boom. 

 

That said, will such a small investment, it would only need one of these companies to know what they're doing to pay for the whole initiative over time. 

I wonder who the customers will be (other than the MoD) should one of these wonderful little toys become useful?

[Innovindil]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I wonder who the customers will be (other than the MoD) should one of these wonderful little toys become useful?

Companies from across England, Wales and Scotland set to receive contracts worth up to £4 million for quantum sensing and autonomous systems to secure communications, space manufacturing and synthetic training.  

 

------

 

It sounds mostly not so boom boom tbh. Should still find plenty of buyers for the things they're working on though. Not quite sure how they are gonna tackle space manufacturing with £4mill, but they can have at it. 

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Companies from across England, Wales and Scotland set to receive contracts worth up to £4 million for quantum sensing and autonomous systems to secure communications, space manufacturing and synthetic training.  

 

------

 

It sounds mostly not so boom boom tbh. Should still find plenty of buyers for the things they're working on though. Not quite sure how they are gonna tackle space manufacturing with £4mill, but they can have at it. 

Small bespoke space engineering is something the UK has done pretty well up until now, so I'm sure they'll come up with something on a shoestring 

[davieG]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

Again, repeating a point made before, but pretty much all of East Asia in terms of public transport infrastructure puts the UK to shame. 

 

Trying to run a 21st century service on 19th century infrastructure isn't going to end well, and we didn't upgrade when we had the chance due to lack of foresight, ideology, or both. 

Privatisation was done under the guise of saving taxpayers money but hasn't helped with profits being extracted and Government / tax payers money still being needed.

 

Same with the water they were all solvent when privatised but surplus land sold off and profits straight into the 'owners' pockets and now lack of investment leading to polluted rivers etc and mountain of debts.

[Foxdiamond]

Tend to agree with Jess Phillips that the sentences on the youths convicted of rape were unduly lenient. A very serious crime committed by boys over the age of criminal responsibility but the judge said he does not want to criminalise them. For crying our loud this is not a minor offence. 

[CornwallFox]

More performative nonsense

 

BBC News - Reform council to recite Lord's Prayer at meetings
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2p4g86x0vo

 

 

[nnfox]

17 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

Tend to agree with Jess Phillips that the sentences on the youths convicted of rape were unduly lenient. A very serious crime committed by boys over the age of criminal responsibility but the judge said he does not want to criminalise them. For crying our loud this is not a minor offence. 

I agree.  As the father of a 14 year old daughter, this case sends absolute chills.

 

The justice system has a duty to protect the public and I understand the need for balance against not wanting to criminalise children, but this is hardly a minor shoplifting or criminal damage! 

 

This is so serious.  The defendants will feel like they've been let off.  And those brave young girls who were put through the additional trauma of a trial will grow into adult life having a justifiable belief that the justice system isn't on their side.  

 

In an age where misogyny is rightly called out as abhorrent, it's cases like this that need to show that society is serious about combating it.

[Foxdiamond]

2 minutes ago, nnfox said:

I agree.  As the father of a 14 year old daughter, this case sends absolute chills.

 

The justice system has a duty to protect the public and I understand the need for balance against not wanting to criminalise children, but this is hardly a minor shoplifting or criminal damage! 

 

This is so serious.  The defendants will feel like they've been let off.  And those brave young girls who were put through the additional trauma of a trial will grow into adult life having a justifiable belief that the justice system isn't on their side.  

 

In an age where misogyny is rightly called out as abhorrent, it's cases like this that need to show that society is serious about combating it.

Apparently the judge spoke about how serious it was and that the attacks were recorded as a laugh yet imposed what was less than a slap on the wrist. That boys of 14 or 15 were responsible indicates their morale compass is already shattered and the public expects a custodial sentence.

[leicsmac]

3 hours ago, davieG said:

Privatisation was done under the guise of saving taxpayers money but hasn't helped with profits being extracted and Government / tax payers money still being needed.

 

Same with the water they were all solvent when privatised but surplus land sold off and profits straight into the 'owners' pockets and now lack of investment leading to polluted rivers etc and mountain of debts.

Yep. That inflection point in the early 1980s with Thatcher being able to do what she did to public services will be felt for a very long time to come. 

[Foxdiamond]

13 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Yep. That inflection point in the early 1980s with Thatcher being able to do what she did to public services will be felt for a very long time to come. 

I remember Lord Stockton as he was (Harold Macmillan) saying the family silver was sold off cheap 

[st albans fox]

2 hours ago, Foxdiamond said:

Tend to agree with Jess Phillips that the sentences on the youths convicted of rape were unduly lenient. A very serious crime committed by boys over the age of criminal responsibility but the judge said he does not want to criminalise them. For crying our loud this is not a minor offence. 

Apparently the boys were unable to understand the full meaning of consent.  I’d say that’s even more of a reason to lock em up 

 

I don’t much care that these boy’s lives might be screwed up by them being incarcerated.  They lost that right when they raped the two girls under those circumstances.  W

[ian__marshall]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

Apparently the boys were unable to understand the full meaning of consent.  I’d say that’s even more of a reason to lock em up 

 

I don’t much care that these boy’s lives might be screwed up by them being incarcerated.  They lost that right when they raped the two girls under those circumstances.  W

Read about this case and sentencing yesterday.

 

Genuinely disgusted that these girls could be treated this way and then humiliated after the events, with the perpetrators free to walk away as if nothing has happened. What was going through the judges mind!

 

I understand his concerns about criminalising them at that age, but I'm sorry the message sent to both them and future offenders is completely unacceptable. They committed very serious crimes, destroyed two innocent people's lives, and have no deterrent to not re-offend in the future.

 

The fact the judicial system even provides them with anonymity is a farce. At the very least they deserve to be outted for their crimes.

 

In 5 or 6 years time they may go on to marry someone's daughter who will be completely oblivious to their past.

 

This sentencing has set a very dangerous precedent in my view and the judge should take a long hard look in the mirror and ask himself whether his judgment is really a fair reflection of the crimes committed. 

 

Edited 22 May by ian__marshall

[ajthefox]

16 hours ago, StanSP said:

Immigration was never the problem as much as the media and the right will have you believe. But numbers are down to their lowest since 2012.

 

Let's see how the media play this one... 

This is where the Tories deserve some credit.

 

They stripped our local services so heavily and made so many bad decisions, that immigration is the lowest it's been in 14 years. That is the kind of long term planning/strategy that this country really needs and is most commendable.

 

 

 

[Foxdiamond]

38 minutes ago, ian__marshall said:

Read about this case and sentencing yesterday.

 

Genuinely disgusted that these girls could be treated this way and then humiliated after the events, with the perpetrators free to walk away as if nothing has happened. What was going through the judges mind!

 

I understand his concerns about criminalising them at that age, but I'm sorry the message sent to both them and future offenders is completely unacceptable. They committed very serious crimes, and destroyed two innocent people's lives, and have no deterrent to not re-offend in the future.

 

The fact the judicial system even provides them with anonymity is a farce. At the very least they deserve to be outted for their crimes.

 

In 5 or 6 years time they may go on to marry someone's daughter who will be completely oblivious to their past.

 

This sentencing has set a very dangerous precedent in my view and the judge should take a long hard look in the mirror and ask himself whether his judgment is really a fair reflection of the crimes committed. 

 

Sort of sentence someone might expect for keying a car or a bit of graffiti on a public building not rape. Too much trying to understand the perpetrator and not enough recognition of the serious crime