General News Thread

[Trav Le Bleu]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

Cuba was always a communist outpost I guess but also there were many of them dotted around.

 

Right now the issue is that Marco Rubio is Secretary of State and national security advisor, and his parents got kicked out of Cuba back in the day, so he’s using his opportunity as a final form of revenge. And ultimately nobody is going to defend Cuba. Russia can’t and isn’t even communist these days anyway and China just aren’t either. In 1962 the Soviet Union needed Cuba so they could stick nukes there to keep America in check. Ballistic submarines means they don’t need that now. So what you’re seeing with both Cuba and Venezuela is one man’s personal motivation to kick all ‘anti-American’ regimes out of the western hemisphere once and for all. 

I get all that - still doesn't make sense.

 

As a side point, where is the line that divides the West/East hemisphere? My guess it's actually more accurately a tertisphere.

Edited 6 hours ago by Trav Le Bleu

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

I get all that - still doesn't make sense.

 

As a side point, where is the line that divides the West/East hemisphere? My guess it's actually more accurately a tertisphere.

The old boys would say it is about 29 degrees East, running through Istanbul.

[Rubbersoul]

Attempted beheading on the streets of Belfast. How lovely. Even more utterly depressing news. 

[Trav Le Bleu]

7 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

The old boys would say it is about 29 degrees East, running through Istanbul.

Some some of Turkey is in the Western hemisphere and Belarus?

[leicsmac]

Just now, Trav Le Bleu said:

Some some of Turkey is in the Western hemisphere and Belarus?

Right. That fits their viewpoint of Turkiye and some of Eastern Europe looking to "play both sides".

[Alf Bentley]

20 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Was the call not for a stabbing?  

 

No. The brother of the killer (Digwa) called 999, alleging that a white man (Nowak) had committed a racist assault on them.

Apparently, he added that Nowak now needed medical attention, but said that no weapons had been involved.

 

When the police arrived, Digwa was standing and articulate, Nowak was lying on the ground.

Digwa repeated the racist assault allegations, also accusing Nowak of having been drunk (subsequent blood tests showed Nowak was under the drink-drive limit).

 

The police should not have just accepted whatever they were told by the people reporting the fictional "racist assault" - otherwise anyone could just accuse someone they don't like of crimes and have the police arrest them. It's understandable that, on arrival, the officers would've expected the aftermath of an assault, perhaps a bit of a scrap - with Digwa as the initial victim, as his brother had reported it. I presume Nowak was handcuffed because a cursory glance didn't reveal signs of a stabbing (the examination should've been more thorough), because an accusation had been made - and because they assumed he was on the ground due to drunkenness and/or getting knocked down in the scrap following an assault.

 

To my mind, these facts suggest inflexible thinking and a grossly inadequate police response, not two-tier policing. 

 

[deep blue]

28 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

No. The brother of the killer (Digwa) called 999, alleging that a white man (Nowak) had committed a racist assault on them.

Apparently, he added that Nowak now needed medical attention, but said that no weapons had been involved.

 

When the police arrived, Digwa was standing and articulate, Nowak was lying on the ground.

Digwa repeated the racist assault allegations, also accusing Nowak of having been drunk (subsequent blood tests showed Nowak was under the drink-drive limit).

 

The police should not have just accepted whatever they were told by the people reporting the fictional "racist assault" - otherwise anyone could just accuse someone they don't like of crimes and have the police arrest them. It's understandable that, on arrival, the officers would've expected the aftermath of an assault, perhaps a bit of a scrap - with Digwa as the initial victim, as his brother had reported it. I presume Nowak was handcuffed because a cursory glance didn't reveal signs of a stabbing (the examination should've been more thorough), because an accusation had been made - and because they assumed he was on the ground due to drunkenness and/or getting knocked down in the scrap following an assault.

 

To my mind, these facts suggest inflexible thinking and a grossly inadequate police response, not two-tier policing. 

 

I don't think it's a two tier approach either, nor do I think you can be too harsh on the police as it was a very confusing situation with so many conflicting allegations being spouted.

 

But the one thing I do find inexplicable, and indefensible, is why the police felt the need to handcuff someone who was on the ground and showing no indication of being a threat.

[davieG]

12 hours ago, Foxdiamond said:

I suppose rightly or wrongly this has its roots in the 1962 Cuban Missles Crisis

Well I think the response to the USSR putting missiles on Cuba was a different level and mostly justified

[Alf Bentley]

3 minutes ago, deep blue said:

I don't think it's a two tier approach either, nor do I think you can be too harsh on the police as it was a very confusing situation with so many conflicting allegations being spouted.

 

But the one thing I do find inexplicable, and indefensible, is why the police felt the need to handcuff someone who was on the ground and showing no indication of being a threat.

 

I'd be more critical of the police than you are, but do agree that it was a confusing situation. It can't often happen that the perpetrator of a serious crime calls the police accusing their victim of a lesser crime - though I presume it's more common for someone to call the police, only for them to discover that there are "two sides to the story".

 

I had the same reaction as you to the handcuffing. But, having thought about it, I presume the false accusations that Nowak was drunk may have triggered the handcuffing. The police arrived, probably found Digwa's story quite credible, did a cursory (inadequate) examination of Nowak to check for stab wounds, then assumed he was on the ground due to drunkenness and perhaps having been punched in a scrap - on that (incorrect) assumption, it would've been reasonable of them to think he might "kick off again".... All very sad, both the tragic incident itself and the whole aftermath.

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, davieG said:

Well I think the response to the USSR putting missiles on Cuba was a different level and mostly justified

The history of those "Thirteen Days" does make for fascinating reading, even though it was the closest time we know of to things going truly terrible. 

 

One thing though; the Americans already had a similar ballistic missile setup with their Jupiter missiles in Turkey, so from the viewpoint of the USSR they were merely matching them in kind. The Jupiter missiles were agreed to be removed as part of the peace deal - but secretly. On the surface though, it looked like a massive step down from Khrushchev and likely cost him his position. 

[davieG]

18 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

The history of those "Thirteen Days" does make for fascinating reading, even though it was the closest time we know of to things going truly terrible. 

 

One thing though; the Americans already had a similar ballistic missile setup with their Jupiter missiles in Turkey, so from the viewpoint of the USSR they were merely matching them in kind. The Jupiter missiles were agreed to be removed as part of the peace deal - but secretly. On the surface though, it looked like a massive step down from Khrushchev and likely cost him his position. 

For sure politics is a lot about brinkmanship and I'm sure there's plenty more going on that we never and probably never will get to hear as with most of politics.

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, Rubbersoul said:

Attempted beheading on the streets of Belfast. How lovely. Even more utterly depressing news. 

Grotesque video 

I’m not an expert on this - how difficult is it to actually behead someone?   The fella seemed to have plenty of time to carry it out so either the knife wasn’t sharp enough or the attacker wasn’t totally committed to the act. 

events like this will keep the immigration issue front and centre, irrespective of the numbers. 

 

[Lionator]

1 hour ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

I get all that - still doesn't make sense.

 

As a side point, where is the line that divides the West/East hemisphere? My guess it's actually more accurately a tertisphere.

So in this context it’s literally just north and South America, assuming Europe stays American. Africa is long gone strategically to china. 

[bovril]

1 hour ago, Rubbersoul said:

Attempted beheading on the streets of Belfast. How lovely. Even more utterly depressing news. 

Somalian apparently, though not sure if he was a Catholic or Protestant Somalian. 

[st albans fox]

8 minutes ago, Lionator said:

So in this context it’s literally just north and South America, assuming Europe stays American. Africa is long gone strategically to china. 

Isn’t n Africa (effectively the Mediterranean Arab states) more nuanced than that? I’d say they’re sitting on the fence between China and the states and probably leaning more towards the states for now. 

[leicsmac]

12 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Isn’t n Africa (effectively the Mediterranean Arab states) more nuanced than that? I’d say they’re sitting on the fence between China and the states and probably leaning more towards the states for now. 

Depends on whether or not you think the Med Arabic states are the only ones that really count. 

 

It's interesting how another major player in the region - South Africa - is often overlooked too, and they appear to be trying to play all sides. 

[Foxdiamond]

37 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Grotesque video 

I’m not an expert on this - how difficult is it to actually behead someone?   The fella seemed to have plenty of time to carry it out so either the knife wasn’t sharp enough or the attacker wasn’t totally committed to the act. 

events like this will keep the immigration issue front and centre, irrespective of the numbers. 

 

Interesting that we expect people employed in professions like the Police or Teachers to be fully vetted and there is outrage when the process has been shown to have failed. What is the process when someone is allowed to settle here?

[CrazyKopCorner]

1 hour ago, deep blue said:

I don't think it's a two tier approach either, nor do I think you can be too harsh on the police as it was a very confusing situation with so many conflicting allegations being spouted.

 

But the one thing I do find inexplicable, and indefensible, is why the police felt the need to handcuff someone who was on the ground and showing no indication of being a threat.

You are too generous. 
 

The police should be able to assess the situation based on what they see not what they are told. All should be assessed as potential suspects and a boy on the ground should be assessed for injury first. 
 

The police edict is completely wrong as all are equal in the eyes of the law not equitable outcomes which is nonsense. 
 

The country including law and order needs complete and utter transformation. 

[nnfox]

16 minutes ago, CrazyKopCorner said:

You are too generous. 
 

The police should be able to assess the situation based on what they see not what they are told. All should be assessed as potential suspects and a boy on the ground should be assessed for injury first. 
 

The police edict is completely wrong as all are equal in the eyes of the law not equitable outcomes which is nonsense. 
 

The country including law and order needs complete and utter transformation. 

So you're saying that when someone calls the police to say that they've been the victim of a racist assault, on arrival, the police should treat everyone, including the victim as a suspect while they assess the incident?  That's not really how it works.  I'm not sure how that would go down in the press.  I think I've seen a fair few headlines over the years along the lines of "POLICE DIDN'T BELIEVE THE VICTIM"

 

An allegation is made, police get details of the allegation from the victim (in good faith that the victim is telling the truth) and then investigate.  This provides the cornerstone for any investigation and will dictate the initial enquiries.  Of course, sometimes the allegation is fabricated and sometimes the "victim" is actually the offender, but that would normally come later, once more evidence has been gathered.

 

There wasn't much wrong with the police's initial response.  They've attended what's been reported as a violent incident, the "offender" has been pointed out.  They've essentially been told "This guy has been violent", so he gets handcuffed for their own safety as much as for others at the scene.  I dare say the officers have had experience of actual violent offenders feigning injury or acting like they're incapable of causing a problem, only for that not to be case.

 

The bit I have the problem with, and where it goes sideways very quickly, is where he is saying he's been stabbed and can't breathe.  At that point a much more thorough check should have been commenced immediately in my opnion, it might have only taken 5-10 seconds, but it wasn't and it was about a minute in until they realised there was an actual problem.

[Foxdiamond]

40 minutes ago, nnfox said:

So you're saying that when someone calls the police to say that they've been the victim of a racist assault, on arrival, the police should treat everyone, including the victim as a suspect while they assess the incident?  That's not really how it works.  I'm not sure how that would go down in the press.  I think I've seen a fair few headlines over the years along the lines of "POLICE DIDN'T BELIEVE THE VICTIM"

 

An allegation is made, police get details of the allegation from the victim (in good faith that the victim is telling the truth) and then investigate.  This provides the cornerstone for any investigation and will dictate the initial enquiries.  Of course, sometimes the allegation is fabricated and sometimes the "victim" is actually the offender, but that would normally come later, once more evidence has been gathered.

 

There wasn't much wrong with the police's initial response.  They've attended what's been reported as a violent incident, the "offender" has been pointed out.  They've essentially been told "This guy has been violent", so he gets handcuffed for their own safety as much as for others at the scene.  I dare say the officers have had experience of actual violent offenders feigning injury or acting like they're incapable of causing a problem, only for that not to be case.

 

The bit I have the problem with, and where it goes sideways very quickly, is where he is saying he's been stabbed and can't breathe.  At that point a much more thorough check should have been commenced immediately in my opnion, it might have only taken 5-10 seconds, but it wasn't and it was about a minute in until they realised there was an actual problem.

Also I understand on arrival the coppers were told that the chap had a mouth full of blood and the Police said he had taken a beating so injury was at least a possibility 

[Robo61]

23 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Was the call not for a stabbing?  

No,  the call alleged a racial assault.

[Robo61]

12 hours ago, Leicesterpool said:

Fine now if you decide to fly an England flag on your house. Cant make this up now £2,500 if flag is certain length or basically someone reports if its "spoling neighbourhood" seems like gourvement are trying provoke a reaction everytime.

In English please,  my apologies if it is your second language.

[Robo61]

11 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

So it is not fine to hang a flag on your house?  What if it is a Brazilian flag?

It is fine to fly on your house,  as long as do not exceed a certain size.  Rules have been in place for sometime.  As usual the Sun making a fuss over nothing.  

[CrazyKopCorner]

1 hour ago, nnfox said:

So you're saying that when someone calls the police to say that they've been the victim of a racist assault, on arrival, the police should treat everyone, including the victim as a suspect while they assess the incident?  That's not really how it works.  I'm not sure how that would go down in the press.  I think I've seen a fair few headlines over the years along the lines of "POLICE DIDN'T BELIEVE THE VICTIM"

 

An allegation is made, police get details of the allegation from the victim (in good faith that the victim is telling the truth) and then investigate.  This provides the cornerstone for any investigation and will dictate the initial enquiries.  Of course, sometimes the allegation is fabricated and sometimes the "victim" is actually the offender, but that would normally come later, once more evidence has been gathered.

 

There wasn't much wrong with the police's initial response.  They've attended what's been reported as a violent incident, the "offender" has been pointed out.  They've essentially been told "This guy has been violent", so he gets handcuffed for their own safety as much as for others at the scene.  I dare say the officers have had experience of actual violent offenders feigning injury or acting like they're incapable of causing a problem, only for that not to be case.

 

The bit I have the problem with, and where it goes sideways very quickly, is where he is saying he's been stabbed and can't breathe.  At that point a much more thorough check should have been commenced immediately in my opnion, it might have only taken 5-10 seconds, but it wasn't and it was about a minute in until they realised there was an actual problem.

Yes that’s exactly what I’m saying and should be standard practise. 
 

Just because someone alleges does not mean that they are not necessarily the perpetrator. 
 

I’ve had this personally and I’m pleased on that occasion the police were much more professional and did not take as read the initial allegations as I was in fact the victim myself. 

[Sampson]

4 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Some some of Turkey is in the Western hemisphere and Belarus?

When Americans say "the western hemisphere" I think they generally mean the Americas and the Carribbean, what we in Europe used to call "the new world".