General News Thread

[Jon the Hat]

16 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Are you English? I always thought I was, never lived anywhere else, but I'm thinking that might not be enough.

 

The deeply contentious debate around what it means to be English - BBC News

 

https://share.google/xvu8YnRZMhLZEDiCt

 

The bit that surprised me was this...

 

The poll suggested that 74% of English people believe that someone can be English regardless of their skin colour or ethnic background.

 

Or to put it another way, 26% believe that non-white people can't ever be English. Which to me is racist and thereby over a quarter of people are racist - which I find surprisingly high. Possibly because the people I choose to spend my time with aren't racist and I wouldn't spend any time with someone who was overtly racist.

 

And the whole St George thing. You know, the legendary Palestinian freedom fighter.  Not sure that all proud patriots would be happy with that. England didn't even exist when he died. The dragon motifs you see are weird too - so you celebrate him by portraying his mortal foe?

 

Apparently, it used to be St Edmund until the 14th century, which would at least make some sense, as he actually was English (though maybe only a second generation immigrant).

 

"But we'll all be speaking foreign!" I hear 26% of you cry. Really? You want English to stay the same? Perhaps we should go back to Shakespearian English, which so many people complain about not being able to understand, despite not being very difficult at all. Nah, sod that, let's go back to Old English - now there's a challenge!

 

Fæder ūre, þū þe eart on heofonum,
sīe þīn nama ġehālgod.
Tōbecume þīn rīċe.
Ġewurþe þīn willa on eorðan swā swā on heofonum.

 

This is a very famous piece of text. Anyone?

Point made, I think.

 

People, and as a result national identity, evolve.

You adapt or you die. Clinging to old traditions is quaint, but not necessary. I mean, we all mourn the loss of vinegar Valentines (sending cruel cards to people you don't like on Feb 14) and bear-baiting, and I'd happily put many a Morris dancer on the ducking stool, but we can create our own traditions that in future times will tell people who WE were and not leave them thinking that we were people from centuries earlier.

 

I find myself wondering - if this country was invaded by a foreign nation, and that nation demanded we adopt all their customs and language, but got the NHS running perfectly, no wait times, less illness, cancer and heart surgery success tripled; brought cheap, efficient transport links, no potholes in roads, well lit streets; put police on the streets, reduced crime by 500%, people felt much safer, shoplifting almost unheard of; cheap gas and electricity with helpful calls centres and prompt attention to any problems, clean water provided by efficient water companies who have help to make the waters of British rivers clean and safe; plenty of affordable housing without stacking people on top of eachother or building on flood plains; pubs, clubs, theatres and cinemas reopening across the land, high streets full of vibrant traders, almost zero unemployment and schools and universities that produced outstandingly talented youth.

 

If all this (of course it hypothetical), I can guarantee you, because they were foreign, and simply because of that, people would rise up and try to get rid of them. England might be crap, but it's OUR crap!

 

Life is strange.

Its a confused concept for sure.  The counter is often made that if you or I as white English born people moved to almost any other part of the world, we would still be seen as English, as would our kids if they were bron to two White English parents.  Its quite a western concept, and to our credit that we largely welcome people from all over the world as being able to become English (or American, or Australian, or New Zealander) in the way that I am not sure you would find in China or India or Japan say.  Would you claim to be Indian if you lived in India, if your kids were born and raised in India?  I think the locals would laugh at you.  Britishness or Englishness (or American, or Australian) is in the main not seen as ethnicity but a belonging.  Which makes it hard to define and easy to pick apart.

[Trav Le Bleu]

2 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Its a confused concept for sure.  The counter is often made that if you or I as white English born people moved to almost any other part of the world, we would still be seen as English, as would our kids if they were bron to two White English parents.  Its quite a western concept, and to our credit that we largely welcome people from all over the world as being able to become English (or American, or Australian, or New Zealander) in the way that I am not sure you would find in China or India or Japan say.  Would you claim to be Indian if you lived in India, if your kids were born and raised in India?  I think the locals would laugh at you.  Britishness or Englishness (or American, or Australian) is in the main not seen as ethnicity but a belonging.  Which makes it hard to define and easy to pick apart.

A very fair point. In fact I was thinking on that myself since posting this. I think that it's rarer (at least since the age of colonialism) that white people go to live in non-white countries.

 

Actually, thinking on that colonialism, white people HAVE been guilty of almost wiping out entire cultures when settling in the Americas and Antipodes, though much less so in Africa and Asia.

 

And now I realise I'm thinking from a British point of view. The Spanish actually did wipe out entire civilizations. To the point that we know less about central and southern American civilizations than we do much older ones such as Egypt or Assyria.

 

As you say, it's a confused concept.

Edited 5 hours ago by Trav Le Bleu

[Robo61]

8 hours ago, Leeds Fox said:

 

So if the actions of someone who’s been stabbed match those of someone who’s intoxicated… and the person is laying down, in distress, claiming they’ve been stabbed multiple times and saying they can’t breathe, it would be fair to assume they may well have being stabbed. No?

Possibly but it is also not unknown for offenders to claim they have been stabbed when they haven't.  

[filthyfox]

8 minutes ago, Robo61 said:

Possibly but it is also not unknown for offenders to claim they have been stabbed when they haven't.  

That was a real copper cock up.

Have seen the bodycam footage and the search of Novac wasnt thorough enough to see if he had a weapon himself, let alone any stab wounds (the wet and sticky test.

Ex filthy copper talking here.  The standard of Police body searching has gone completely downhill.

Going back some time- how the actual **** did that Custody Sergeant get shot?

Are Police too scared ti do their job because of a two-tier racial system?

I dont know; i left in 2003 before it got stupid.