Ben Nelson

[Dahnsouff]

3 minutes ago, murphy said:

No, iIt is a rebuttal of the idea that team selection on this matter has been dictated by accountants.  It makes no sense.  I think the manager has gone down the tried and tested (and found wanting) route, rather than trying to develop Nelson which is a shame imo.  That or there is something else at play that we don't know about as @MPH suggests, such as refusing to sign a new contract for instance.

And that makes sense, the question becomes why would the club choose to operate in this way? Assume either the club do not belive Nelson is good enough, this seeming unlikely with his squad inclusion, or as mentioned it relates to asset value maximising, which is a footballing term we all love to hear. 

 

Or it's something else... 

[murphy]

47 minutes ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

So here is the quick sniff test, on Tuesday against Wrexham Marti selects Nelson instead of Faes, Page comes into the 10 and Monga starts instead of Mavididi. 
 

Despite controlling and dominating the game Page and Monga struggle in attacking areas to create space and chances against wily experienced EFL defenders and both are hooked at 60 minutes as we are 2-0 down after Keiffer Moore has bullied and outmuscled Nelson twice to score headers, despite throwing the Kitchen sink at Wrexham in the final half hour we lose 2-1. 
 

it would be interesting to see if the reaction was give them time etc or whether Marti is lambasted for not bringing on more experienced players earlier on or dropping proven internationals in place of youngsters not yet ready. It really is a fine line and I think it would be more likely the latter. Which if true would demonstrate that as an overall fanbase maybe we too are too guilty in focusing on the immediate here and now rather than the bigger picture. 

They have already met.

 

He’s got a big future ahead of him. Games like this where he’s got to learn you’ve just got to go and do the hard yards, put your head on it, and go and compete against people like Kieffer Moore, which is a good learning curve for him, and not make mistakes.

 

Garry Rowett again on Ben Nelson after a 1-0 victory in which he did not get bullied by Kieffer Moore and played the last ten with cramp.

 

I think with youngsters you have to expect mistakes and consider it part of their development.  They should not be held to the same account as seasoned pros.  That said, I don't think that Nelson would be any less effective than Faes and Co.

Edited 28 September 2025 by murphy

[murphy]

18 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

And that makes sense, the question becomes why would the club choose to operate in this way? Assume either the club do not belive Nelson is good enough, this seeming unlikely with his squad inclusion, or as mentioned it relates to asset value maximising, which is a footballing term we all love to hear. 

 

Or it's something else... 

But it doesn't maximise asset value surely.  Quite the opposite.  Faes and Vestergaard are not saleable.

[Dahnsouff]

34 minutes ago, murphy said:

But it doesn't maximise asset value surely.  Quite the opposite.  Faes and Vestergaard are not saleable.

If they are part of a statistically decent defence, it must help.
 

Suppose the one other consideration, and this is something Enzo mentioned, getting the seniors onside first was important. 
If Marti is of a similar mind, maybe we will start to see more youth over the second half/three quarters of the season?

 

 

[Claudio Fannieri]

3 hours ago, murphy said:

They have already met.

 

He’s got a big future ahead of him. Games like this where he’s got to learn you’ve just got to go and do the hard yards, put your head on it, and go and compete against people like Kieffer Moore, which is a good learning curve for him, and not make mistakes.

 

Garry Rowett again on Ben Nelson after a 1-0 victory in which he did not get bullied by Kieffer Moore and played the last ten with cramp.

 

I think with youngsters you have to expect mistakes and consider it part of their development.  They should not be held to the same account as seasoned pros.  That said, I don't think that Nelson would be any less effective than Faes and Co.

It’s a great point that he has already played against Moore however I was just playing devils advocate and asking what our fan reaction would be if selected and we lost and he had a tough game. 

[honeybradger]

12 minutes ago, Claudio Fannieri said:

It’s a great point that he has already played against Moore however I was just playing devils advocate and asking what our fan reaction would be if selected and we lost and he had a tough game. 

You will always have fans waiting in the wings to jump on any bad performances from our academy players. Look at the reaction to Nelson's game against Huddersfield.

 

Reasonable fans know that Nelson and the other academy lads are the way forwards, not the senior plonkers who have let us down again and again, and will forgive bad games knowing that these young players are worth supporting through rough patches.

[Claudio Fannieri]

Just now, honeybradger said:

You will always have fans waiting in the wings to jump on any bad performances from our academy players. Look at the reaction to Nelson's game against Huddersfield.

 

Reasonable fans know that Nelson and the other academy lads are the way forwards, not the senior plonkers who have let us down again and again, and will forgive bad games knowing that these young players are worth supporting through rough patches.

That is why I am asking the question and yeah I hope you are right, that is where my head is at, however we do have past history with most if not all our recent academy prospects coming in for a fair bit of criticism and not constructive in any way shape or form, in fact it has and can be pretty negative desperate stuff at times. 

[Greg2607]

7 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

You will always have fans waiting in the wings to jump on any bad performances from our academy players. Look at the reaction to Nelson's game against Huddersfield.

 

Reasonable fans know that Nelson and the other academy lads are the way forwards, not the senior plonkers who have let us down again and again, and will forgive bad games knowing that these young players are worth supporting through rough patches.

Which I totally agree with.  

 

Marti is on a tiny bit of a hiding to nothing in some ways.  Promotion is absolutely the aim for the club this year. 

 

He possibly can't afford to "blood" some youngsters in the hope that their ceiling is higher.... But also knows he has deficiencies in the senior squad that he has to mitigate. 

 

Do you roll the dice on youngsters who some weeks will be 8/10 and others potentially a 4/10..... (Potentially making results less predictable)

 

OR do you play the players who are mostly 6 or 7 out of 10 each week but very rarely an 8 and never a 9. 

 

The fans are probably more understanding of our plight than the club.  Let's not forget that they set a playing budget last season on the expectation we would finish 8th or higher! 

 

 

[foxinsocks]

Does any one have any info on why nelson is not getting a change? - the new manager seems sensible and so at some point nelson' will get a chance

[Claudio Fannieri]

2 minutes ago, Greg2607 said:

Which I totally agree with.  

 

Marti is on a tiny bit of a hiding to nothing in some ways.  Promotion is absolutely the aim for the club this year. 

 

He possibly can't afford to "blood" some youngsters in the hope that their ceiling is higher.... But also knows he has deficiencies in the senior squad that he has to mitigate. 

 

Do you roll the dice on youngsters who some weeks will be 8/10 and others potentially a 4/10..... (Potentially making results less predictable)

 

OR do you play the players who are mostly 6 or 7 out of 10 each week but very rarely an 8 and never a 9. 

 

The fans are probably more understanding of our plight than the club.  Let's not forget that they set a playing budget last season on the expectation we would finish 8th or higher! 

 

 

Absolutely superb post and nails it 👏🏼👏🏼

[don_danbury]

24 minutes ago, Greg2607 said:

Which I totally agree with.  

 

Marti is on a tiny bit of a hiding to nothing in some ways.  Promotion is absolutely the aim for the club this year. 

 

He possibly can't afford to "blood" some youngsters in the hope that their ceiling is higher.... But also knows he has deficiencies in the senior squad that he has to mitigate. 

 

Do you roll the dice on youngsters who some weeks will be 8/10 and others potentially a 4/10..... (Potentially making results less predictable)

 

OR do you play the players who are mostly 6 or 7 out of 10 each week but very rarely an 8 and never a 9. 

 

The fans are probably more understanding of our plight than the club.  Let's not forget that they set a playing budget last season on the expectation we would finish 8th or higher! 

 

 

Finish 8th or higher? This can't be true 

[moore_94]

22 minutes ago, Greg2607 said:

Which I totally agree with.  

 

Marti is on a tiny bit of a hiding to nothing in some ways.  Promotion is absolutely the aim for the club this year. 

 

He possibly can't afford to "blood" some youngsters in the hope that their ceiling is higher.... But also knows he has deficiencies in the senior squad that he has to mitigate. 

 

Do you roll the dice on youngsters who some weeks will be 8/10 and others potentially a 4/10..... (Potentially making results less predictable)

 

OR do you play the players who are mostly 6 or 7 out of 10 each week but very rarely an 8 and never a 9. 

 

The fans are probably more understanding of our plight than the club.  Let's not forget that they set a playing budget last season on the expectation we would finish 8th or higher! 

 

 

The 8th or higher budget was 22/23

[murphy]

15 minutes ago, Greg2607 said:

Which I totally agree with.  

 

Marti is on a tiny bit of a hiding to nothing in some ways.  Promotion is absolutely the aim for the club this year. 

 

You would have thought so, but I'm not sure the recent transfer window backs up that assumption.

 

20 minutes ago, Greg2607 said:

He possibly can't afford to "blood" some youngsters in the hope that their ceiling is higher.... But also knows he has deficiencies in the senior squad that he has to mitigate. 

 

Do you roll the dice on youngsters who some weeks will be 8/10 and others potentially a 4/10..... (Potentially making results less predictable)

 

OR do you play the players who are mostly 6 or 7 out of 10 each week but very rarely an 8 and never a 9. 

 

The fans are probably more understanding of our plight than the club.  Let's not forget that they set a playing budget last season on the expectation we would finish 8th or higher! 

 

 

 OK, that's a well-argued point but it fails to recognise that in Nelson's case, he has already passed the audition.  If we believe what they tell us in Oxfordland, Nelson consistently aced it last year so the idea that he might potemntially lurch from 4/10 to 8/10 is probably unlikely.

[honeybradger]

25 minutes ago, Greg2607 said:

Which I totally agree with.  

 

Marti is on a tiny bit of a hiding to nothing in some ways.  Promotion is absolutely the aim for the club this year. 

 

He possibly can't afford to "blood" some youngsters in the hope that their ceiling is higher.... But also knows he has deficiencies in the senior squad that he has to mitigate. 

 

Do you roll the dice on youngsters who some weeks will be 8/10 and others potentially a 4/10..... (Potentially making results less predictable)

 

OR do you play the players who are mostly 6 or 7 out of 10 each week but very rarely an 8 and never a 9. 

 

The fans are probably more understanding of our plight than the club.  Let's not forget that they set a playing budget last season on the expectation we would finish 8th or higher! 

 

 

The issue is that as we were reminded last game these senior players such as Faes, Vestergaard, Ayew, Kristiansen are both poor and inconsistent and are not necessarily the way forward to promotion.

 

I would back us more to go up this season if we had Nelson in our backline who held his own against Leeds, Sunderland and Sheffield United last season and was consistently a 7-8/10 for Oxford than Faes who was dropped like a sack of potatoes by Iling Junior and has been inconsistent to consistently poor over his 3 years here.

 

Cifuentes doesnt have a choice between promotion and blooding the youth, he has a choice between bravery and cowardice. He can continue to play the underperforming senior pros in hope that they sneak promotion, likely resulting in us falling short, or he can bring through the young players and inject some much needed energy and talent into this side.

 

Sadly with the way things are going I think he will keep making the same mistakes and we will fall short at the end of the season having given the young players minimal game time.

[Greg2607]

24 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

The 8th or higher budget was 22/23

Ah apologies, thought it was last year. 

[MGLCFC]

6 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

He can continue to play the underperforming senior pros in hope that they sneak promotion, likely resulting in us falling short, or he can bring through the young players and inject some much needed energy and talent into this side.

This is the dice he has to roll, though. Stick or twist. There's no guarantee either way, we may get promoted playing the Senior pros, we may not. Similarly, blooding youngsters could pay dividends, but also has huge risk factors. It's a tricky dilemma and I understand why Marti has used seasoned professionals to get us off to a steady, if somewhat uninspiring start. I'm hoping to see more integration of our talented youth players as the season progresses.  

[honeybradger]

1 minute ago, MGLCFC said:

This is the dice he has to roll, though. Stick or twist. There's no guarantee either way, we may get promoted playing the Senior pros, we may not. Similarly, blooding youngsters could pay dividends, but also has huge risk factors. It's a tricky dilemma and I understand why Marti has used seasoned professionals to get us off to a steady, if somewhat uninspiring start. I'm hoping to see more integration of our talented youth players as the season progresses.  

Sadly the trend has been Cifuentes phasing the youth players further and further away from the first team, not integrating them.

 

There's no guarantee either way as you cant guarantee the future but for me Cifuentes is making a big mistake with the way he has handled the academy thus far.

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, honeybradger said:

Sadly the trend has been Cifuentes phasing the youth players further and further away from the first team, not integrating them.

 

There's no guarantee either way as you cant guarantee the future but for me Cifuentes is making a big mistake with the way he has handled the academy thus far.

Perhaps, but integrating now could be viewed as too soon, however would concur that we should expect to see it as the season goes on (We are only 7 games in)

[Tommy G]

On 28/09/2025 at 13:59, honeybradger said:

You will always have fans waiting in the wings to jump on any bad performances from our academy players. Look at the reaction to Nelson's game against Huddersfield.

 

Reasonable fans know that Nelson and the other academy lads are the way forwards, not the senior plonkers who have let us down again and again, and will forgive bad games knowing that these young players are worth supporting through rough patches.

To be fair Faes and Vestergaard get pelters from 80% of our fanbase every single week - and rightly so, I think there is a section of our fans that think academy players are exempt from criticism. 

 

Nelson was really poor against Hudds and got criticism - and?

[Tommy G]

22 hours ago, honeybradger said:

Sadly the trend has been Cifuentes phasing the youth players further and further away from the first team, not integrating them.

 

There's no guarantee either way as you cant guarantee the future but for me Cifuentes is making a big mistake with the way he has handled the academy thus far.

Has he not played and started Monga and Page, I must of dreamt it. 

 

Secondly we signed a few players on DD - he will want to take a look at them, so naturally pushes some academy players further away from the matchday squad - doesn't mean it's forever. 

[honeybradger]

Just now, Tommy G said:

Has he not played and started Monga and Page, I must of dreamt it. 

 

Secondly we signed a few players on DD - he will want to take a look at them, so naturally pushes some academy players further away from the matchday squad - doesn't mean it's forever. 

So what i said is correct that the academy players have been pushed further away from the matchday squad than when the season started. It's not just for the new signings either it's for duffers like Kristiansen and Cordova Reid (yes he did get us the point the other day but still a duffer).

 

It's not hard to understand why i think it's dubious that Cifuentes will integrate the young players over the season considering his decision making implies the opposite.

[Tommy G]

Just now, honeybradger said:

So what i said is correct that the academy players have been pushed further away from the matchday squad than when the season started. It's not just for the new signings either it's for duffers like Kristiansen and Cordova Reid (yes he did get us the point the other day but still a duffer).

 

It's not hard to understand why i think it's dubious that Cifuentes will integrate the young players over the season considering his decision making implies the opposite.

On the flip side he would get pelters for leaving out JJ, Carranza and Ramsey in favour of some academy prospects, what would be the point in doing the business? I think we've got a reasonable mix of youth and experience - and as we start to find a rhythm he will integrate more I suspect. 

[Chelmofox]

8 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

To be fair Faes and Vestergaard get pelters from 80% of our fanbase every single week - and rightly so, I think there is a section of our fans that think academy players are exempt from criticism. 

 

Nelson was really poor against Hudds and got criticism - and?

Nelson had a much better second half.

 

Faes and Vestergaard are experienced pro's who both have many seasons of top flight football behind them, as well as international tournament football, and cost us 10's of millions in transfer / agent fees.  They have been allowed to develop in other leagues on the pathway to PL / EPL football. Nelson hasn't.  After Faes and Vestergaard make mistakes, their experience means they are straight back in the side. Nelson isn't afforded that luxury. 

 

The level of criticism deserved at them all needs to be based on their experience and where they are in the career. The fact that Nelson hasn't played since the Huddersfield game, and many fans keep referring back to it, are a concern when you see our other CB's make mistakes each game.

 

[honeybradger]

1 minute ago, Tommy G said:

On the flip side he would get pelters for leaving out JJ, Carranza and Ramsey in favour of some academy prospects, what would be the point in doing the business? I think we've got a reasonable mix of youth and experience - and as we start to find a rhythm he will integrate more I suspect. 

It's fairly simple he should leave out BCDR, Kristiansen, Daka to make way for 2-3 of Aluko, Nelson, Page, Evans. Those first 3 dont contribute much anyway.

[murphy]

21 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

To be fair Faes and Vestergaard get pelters from 80% of our fanbase every single week - and rightly so, I think there is a section of our fans that think academy players are exempt from criticism. 

 

Nelson was really poor against Hudds and got criticism - and?

Not exempt, but developing youth generally, should not be held to the same account as seasoned pros.  They are, in the most part, taking a big leap from academy to men's football.  Fans need to be patient.

 

In the case of Nelson specifically, we know that he has already impressed at this level, regardless of a poor hal, coming back from injury against Huddersfield, so the risks are fewer and hence the clamour for his inclusion. The other reason being that we want him to sign a new contract and playing him is our best chance of securing that.