Who de we need in January?

[BrilliantFox]

3 hours ago, JimJams said:

But he cost them nothing and he's barely played for them.  His career has gone really up and down.

So we've already loaned an Eredivisie flop in Carranza and thought we should go for another?

 

I'm sorry, but if you're not smashing it in the Dutch league, you're not good enough here.

[JimJams]

He has smashed it in the eredivisie and he smashed it in the bundesliga before.

Pepi is their first choice striker and is simply better than anyone we can attract.

 

You'll have to chirp in with some suggestions of a striker with some sort of proven record, who won't cost anything and who would come to us in our situation. All ears.

 

 

[Shane]

Makama at Norwich. He won’t be available in January because they just signed him from Lincoln for £1m (proof there’s gems in the lower leagues), but he’s worth keeping an eye on.
 

He can play as a striker and number 10. 7 goal contributions this season so will probably hit double figures.

 

 

[BrilliantFox]

5 hours ago, JimJams said:

You'll have to chirp in with some suggestions of a striker with some sort of proven record, who won't cost anything and who would come to us in our situation. All ears.

I'd start by looking for those who've proven themselves in one of the Top 5 european leagues.

 

The problem with short-term thinking, is you end up with a striker that is good enough for Sheffield United but not Leicester City. 

 

Our next striker needs to have the ability to play in the Premier League.

[moore_94]

Yousef Salech at Cardiff if we can somehow spend money

 

Wanted us to try for him in the summer

[JimJams]

1 hour ago, BrilliantFox said:

I'd start by looking for those who've proven themselves in one of the Top 5 european leagues.

 

The problem with short-term thinking, is you end up with a striker that is good enough for Sheffield United but not Leicester City. 

 

Our next striker needs to have the ability to play in the Premier League.

Yes but this kind of thinking is unrealistic.  You're talking about bringing in a striker with a proven record at a top 5 league that would be both free or at least cheap, and would be willing to drop to a team in the championship to a club that's been mid table all season and is looking at a potential points deduction.

Which Serie A striker that's been banging it in over there is thinking "You know what I fancy, dropping into the English 2nd tier and having a crack at that"?

 

It's not short term thinking, it's taking a loan with a future view.  By your logic getting JJ in on loan was short term thinking.  It's what you do, you loan players in with a view to signing them if they prove to be worth signing.  Carranza hasn't worked, JJ has,  Yunus didn't work, Abdul absolutely did.  

We're not in a position to sign somebody for any sort of decent amount, and if we were we'd be competing with low end premier league clubs like West Ham for the kind of player you're describing.

 

I mean, name a proven striker who is currently in a position where we could afford them, they're available and they would want to come here.

 

 

[FoxinNotts]

 Come on people, let's have some realistic comments!

 

We're about to receive a points deduction. We can't spend any money. We've made an indifferent start to the season.

 

Our goals will now be: get to the playoffs.

 

At best, this window will look like this:

- Buy Jordan James on a permanent basis.

- Agree the permanent sale of BEK

- Get Winks a move to get him off the Wage bill

- Bring in Antonio on a contract until the end of the season

- Maybe, return Carranza, if possible

From this point we have to hope to keep Ramsey fit and then get Antonio, Daka and Ayew somehow firing

[Finnegan]

28 minutes ago, FoxinNotts said:

Buy Jordan James on a permanent basis.

 

There's categorically no chance of this. It might "only" be 5m euros but that's a **** load we don't actually need to spend. Even if we convinced him to sign, which we won't until he knows what league we'll be in, we could kick the fee for this down the road to next season and spend that money this January if we had it. Which we don't. 

 

30 minutes ago, FoxinNotts said:

Agree the permanent sale of BEK

 

Similarly unlikely. Why would Stuttgart bother when they can take their time. He's doing OK there, well enough to warrant a permanent move. But not so well they have to risk Bayern coming and offering us 50m in the summer if they don't act now. 

 

32 minutes ago, FoxinNotts said:

Get Winks a move to get him off the Wage bill

 

The absolute best we get is a loan with someone paying about half (if we're lucky) of his wages. Nobody is going to be so desperate for him they pay a fee when he's out of contract in the summer. We have an abysmal track record in this position. There's about a 99% chance he stinks the place out til July being paid full and not playing another minute. 

 

35 minutes ago, FoxinNotts said:

Bring in Antonio on a contract until the end of the season

- Maybe, return Carranza, if possible

 

Antonio looks about done. Probably means Carranza is gone but, again, we have some harrowing previous. You'd like to think if we've learned from any mistake it's French Eddie but we were pretty desperate going for Carranza to begin with so who knows. 

 

[Manwell Pablo]

6 hours ago, BrilliantFox said:

I'd start by looking for those who've proven themselves in one of the Top 5 european leagues.

 

The problem with short-term thinking, is you end up with a striker that is good enough for Sheffield United but not Leicester City. 

 

Our next striker needs to have the ability to play in the Premier League.

 

 Hope you're funding someone who has proven themselves in the top 5 European leagues as Top sure as shit isn't. 

[BrilliantFox]

15 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said:

as Top sure as shit isn't. 

Thats a problem in and of itself and exactly why we're in this crap position in the first place.

[Manwell Pablo]

4 minutes ago, BrilliantFox said:

Thats a problem in and of itself and exactly why we're in this crap position in the first place.

 

Yes, and it's not a problem in itself , it's one you have to take into account when commenting on this thread  Ok you coming in here asking for a proven goal scorer, sure we'd all love one, it's not going to happen though. 

[BrilliantFox]

Just now, Manwell Pablo said:

 

Yes, and it's not a problem in itself , it's one you have to take into account when commenting on this thread  Ok you coming in here asking for a proven goal scorer, sure we'd all love one, it's not going to happen though. 

 

Then shouldn't the better option be to wait until we can actually buy a player of said quality? It goes back to my comment on everyone looking for short-term stop-gaps.

 

I don't want to just bring in yet another shit striker, we've done that enough times. You buy wrong, you buy twice. 

 

Try a fluid front 3 of Monga, Mavididi, Fatawu. Mavididi has experience playing in the 9 position.

[Manwell Pablo]

Just now, BrilliantFox said:

 

Then shouldn't the better option be to wait until we can actually buy a player of said quality? It goes back to my comment on everyone looking for short-term stop-gaps.

 

I don't want to just bring in yet another shit striker, we've done that enough times. You buy wrong, you buy twice. 

 

Try a fluid front 3 of Monga, Mavididi, Fatawu. Mavididi has experience playing in the 9 position.

 

Marti trying a fluid front three......

 

Maybe we should go back to proven striker  

[JimJams]

38 minutes ago, BrilliantFox said:

I don't want to just bring in yet another shit striker, we've done that enough times. You buy wrong, you buy twice.

Which is why you loan one in first if you can, as I suggested. Your way of doing things would have seen us miss out on Youri when we were a Prem side cos, like Boadu, he didn't cut it at Monaco.

 

Additionally when have we ever signed a striker proven in any of the top 5 leagues?

French Ed? Ayew?

Slimani is about as close as we've gotten and Liga Sagres isn't in that collective.

Someone who did well in a short reference period in Kel. So £30mill punts that did what?

[BrilliantFox]

35 minutes ago, JimJams said:

Which is why you loan one in first if you can, as I suggested. Your way of doing things would have seen us miss out on Youri when we were a Prem side cos, like Boadu, he didn't cut it at Monaco.

 

Additionally when have we ever signed a striker proven in any of the top 5 leagues?

French Ed? Ayew?

Slimani is about as close as we've gotten and Liga Sagres isn't in that collective.

Someone who did well in a short reference period in Kel. So £30mill punts that did what?

 

Tielemans was still young when he joined Monaco, you're allowed to have that grace period until the age of 21.

 

The Striker you have suggested is turning 25 next month, by that age you should not be a failure at "PSV".

 

We've seen a plethora of players who were actually great in the Dutch league become flops in the Premier League.

So if you're not even great in the Eredivisie what confidence should we have as fans about you as a player?

 

[JimJams]

Just now, BrilliantFox said:

 

Tielemans was still young when he joined Monaco, you're allowed to have that grace period until the age of 21.

 

The Striker you have suggested is turning 25 next month, by that age you should not be a failure at "PSV".

 

We've seen a plethora of players who were actually great in the Dutch league become flops in the Premier League.

So if you're not even great in the Eredivisie what confidence should we have as fans about you as a player?

 

As stated he has Pepi ahead of him who is a better player.  Y'know a bit like when we had Kramaric at the same time as Vardy.

For AZ he scored 1 in 2.  For Bochum in the Bundesliga he scored 1 in 2.  At Monaco, where he "failed" his record stands at a goal every 195 minutes.  In his last season at Monaco he only scored 1.  But he only played 112 minutes.  In his short loan stint at Twente he scored 3, but only played 294 minutes.  The 9 goals he scored for Bochum came from a total of 1062 minutes, a goal every 118 minutes.

 

He could be good for us, he could be shit.  But it's the sort of loan we should be looking at when the window comes round because we're so stuck for options.  Your notion that we can be going out and grabbing talent proven at the top of the game is delusional to be honest, we've not even done that when we were riding high in the Premier League so how you think we'll be able to do that whilst looking largely unconvincing so far at Championship level is a mystery.

 

I understand we don't want to be lumbered with shit, but that's the point in the loan aspect.  Try before you buy.

[BrilliantFox]

5 minutes ago, JimJams said:

I understand we don't want to be lumbered with shit, but that's the point in the loan aspect.  Try before you buy.

But thats why I said, in the meantime why can't we try a fluid front 3 of Monga (LW), Mavididi (ST), Fatawu (RW)?

 

Mavididi played as a 9 in the French league.

 

Lots of pace, lots of technicality, let them build an understanding with each other.

[les-tah]

Left Back and Striker are priorities in the starting 11, both in the Jordan James bracket of quality loan.

 

then any other decent loans to bulk the squad depth out so we can maybe get rid of any of Winks, Faes, Soumare, Carranza,  Okoli etc

[Manwell Pablo]

1 hour ago, BrilliantFox said:

 

Tielemans was still young when he joined Monaco, you're allowed to have that grace period until the age of 21.

 

The Striker you have suggested is turning 25 next month, by that age you should not be a failure at "PSV".

 

We've seen a plethora of players who were actually great in the Dutch league become flops in the Premier League.

So if you're not even great in the Eredivisie what confidence should we have as fans about you as a player?

 

 

2 hours ago, JimJams said:

Which is why you loan one in first if you can, as I suggested. Your way of doing things would have seen us miss out on Youri when we were a Prem side cos, like Boadu, he didn't cut it at Monaco.

 

Additionally when have we ever signed a striker proven in any of the top 5 leagues?

French Ed? Ayew?

Slimani is about as close as we've gotten and Liga Sagres isn't in that collective.

Someone who did well in a short reference period in Kel. So £30mill punts that did what?

 

Yeah Tielemans is a poor example, face clearly didn't fit at Monaco but his reputation was one of an extremely promising European level midfielder. Hency why he cost us 32 odd million. 

 

 

[JimJams]

2 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said:

Yeah Tielemans is a poor example, face clearly didn't fit at Monaco but his reputation was one of an extremely promising European level midfielder. Hency why he cost us 32 odd million. 

He's an example of a player who had never performed in one of Europes top 5 leagues, and as a result of not performing at Monaco was available for us to take on loan without obligation.  A pretty apt example really.  I didn't say Boadu is on the same level, that's not really the point.

[Manwell Pablo]

1 minute ago, JimJams said:

He's an example of a player who had never performed in one of Europes top 5 leagues, and as a result of not performing at Monaco was available for us to take on loan without obligation.  A pretty apt example really.  I didn't say Boadu is on the same level, that's not really the point.

 

Yeah but your just looking at it in plain terms aren't you. 

 

I'm quite sure if you find an example of someone with the kind of pedigree Tielemans had outside of the top 5 European leagues (relatively obviously, and it is a stupid point we have established this) he probably wouldn't disagree with you. 

[coolhandfox]

I think people have to be realistic, very unlikely we will spend in this account period.

 

Most likely is a loan if we can free up some wages.

 

A season like this is necessary, in the summer a lot of the bug wage earns will be leaving Daka, Soumare, Winks, Ricardo, and Ayew all out of contact, hopefully we can offload Faes for a fee and bank the money from BEK transfer becoming permanent.

 

Than we have the head room in terms of wages and transfer fee amortisation.

 

Get in a proper technical director early.

 

Then the real rebuild starts, first building block is to get Nelson to extend his contract and try and get James on a permanent.

 

Next get as many minutes into the legs of Alves, Braybrooke, Monga, Page, Evans , Aluko and Jakub.

 

Give us a good core of kids and a few experienced pros in Vesty, BCDR Skipp, Hamza, Thomas, Mavididi and Fatawu.

 

Then it's about good recruitment.

 

 

 

[Pliskin]

**** off Carranza and get Jaden Heskey on for half a season. 

[Pliskin]

12 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

I think people have to be realistic, very unlikely we will spend in this account period.

 

Most likely is a loan if we can free up some wages.

 

A season like this is necessary, in the summer a lot of the bug wage earns will be leaving Daka, Soumare, Winks, Ricardo, and Ayew all out of contact, hopefully we can offload Faes for a fee and bank the money from BEK transfer becoming permanent.

 

Than we have the head room in terms of wages and transfer fee amortisation.

 

Get in a proper technical director early.

 

Then the real rebuild starts, first building block is to get Nelson to extend his contract and try and get James on a permanent.

 

Next get as many minutes into the legs of Alves, Braybrooke, Monga, Page, Evans , Aluko and Jakub.

 

Give us a good core of kids and a few experienced pros in Vesty, BCDR Skipp, Hamza, Thomas, Mavididi and Fatawu.

 

Then it's about good recruitment.

 

 

 

You’re spot on. We’re not spending a penny, they will want to completely reset, so essentially this year will hopefully see a profit in terms of player sales. 
 

We need to force Faes, Winks, Soumare and Daka out, but not at the same time…. Naturally it will leave us short.

 

How many loans can we have? 
 

It may be the case we bring some loans in to replace any players that leave….. and then in the summer have a proper go, we should have a bit more to spend, so hopefully we can gamble a bit spend what we need to and build a young hungry squad. 

[coolhandfox]

3 hours ago, Pliskin said:

You’re spot on. We’re not spending a penny, they will want to completely reset, so essentially this year will hopefully see a profit in terms of player sales. 
 

We need to force Faes, Winks, Soumare and Daka out, but not at the same time…. Naturally it will leave us short.

 

How many loans can we have? 
 

It may be the case we bring some loans in to replace any players that leave….. and then in the summer have a proper go, we should have a bit more to spend, so hopefully we can gamble a bit spend what we need to and build a young hungry squad. 

I think it's 5 in the match day squad

 

100% an upwardly mobile young hunger squad, with some senior pro

 

A little like we did under NP, cheap frees like Wasilewski, Phillips, Konchesky, than a core of you, than a investment in player with high ceilings like we did in Drinkwater, Kasper, Vardy, Mahrez et all.