trouble in loughborough

[Alexikokopops]

Not being racist, but you're right and we need to rid the country of all the niggers, pakis, pinkos, and chinks before this country will be free of crime. And kill the gypsies. The muzzys can fook off too.

What about the gooks?

Bloody gooks.

[Phube]

Simple answer, just ban ALL s'hit-hop' and ©rap music. It seems to be at the heart of the 'gansta' moron's lifestylee!!

[Manwell Pablo]

...but you are quite prepared to stereotype based on colour

He is right though, once I, walked past a night club in Huddersfield at 2am after a Bangra night had just finished. I've never seen a kick off like it.

[OriginalRobboFOX]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicest...ire/6438939.stm

and all this ahead of Chris Moyles / Jo Whiley's visit....

[Dr The Singh]

He is right though, once I, walked past a night club in Huddersfield at 2am after a Bangra night had just finished. I've never seen a kick off like it.

It's Bhangra!!!!

The problem with these nights is the rivalry between Asian factions and the shortage of totty, hence most guys are usually fighting over the birds!!

It's not the culture or race that brings the worst to such venues but the music itself, rap, bhangra, hip hop etc tend to be associated with a certain type of 'lifestyle', hence the people that go to these venues are influnced by that lifestyle!!!

[Manwell Pablo]

It's Bhangra!!!!

The problem with these nights is the rivalry between Asian factions and the shortage of totty, hence most guys are usually fighting over the birds!!

It's not the culture or race that brings the worst to such venues but the music itself, rap, bhangra, hip hop etc tend to be associated with a certain type of 'lifestyle', hence the people that go to these venues are influnced by that lifestyle!!!

Which was the point I was making Singh.

EDIT: I dunno if it was between rival Asian gangs, they seemed pretty indiscremeant about who they were starting on, it was pretty much any thing that moved man, woman or beast. Bouncer had his ankle broken.

I found an alternate route home.

[MC Prussian]

Not being racist, but I expect it was potentially West Indian/Asian or East European gangs behind it. Pathetic

Beware!!!

Jump the Media Bandwagon!!!

Join the ride!!!

(Just wait for the official police report)

[Dr The Singh]

Which was the point I was making Singh.

EDIT: I dunno if it was between rival Asian gangs, they seemed pretty indiscremeant about who they were starting on, it was pretty much any thing that moved man, woman or beast. Bouncer has his ankle broken.

I found an alternate route home.

During my youth and uni days I used to go to such 'nights', and some people just are mindless thugs, they get drunk and have nothing better to do then brawl, trying to be the 'baddest' and 'run' the joint or town and I used to remember being told....'the derby boys are comming down and wolves boys and so on so on, and it's all gonna kick off'......how fooking childish!!

[Rincewind]

Whenever there is trouble look up the music genre to find the culprits. For example;

Mods=beatles

Rockers=rolling stones

Skinheads=punk

WW2 army lads on leave=Glen Miller/Vera Lyn

[James.]

Clearly introducing race into the debate is always going to provoke a strong reaction one way or another.

However I find it disappointing that as soon as a comment like this is made you get a herd of posters hammering out ironic and sarcastic comments. In some cases, when the original comment is ludicrous and naive then fair enough. This, in my opinion, wasn't one of those times.

In no way do I tolerate racism or encourage stereotyping however the reality is that there is a problem with black on black gun crime in this country. Living in London has particularly demonstrated this and there is now a specialist police unit (Operation Trident) set up to deal with this and it's related problems.

It may have been a little hasty to accuse blacks or asians of this particular shooting but the reactions of a few on here suggest that, in the interests of political correctness and a desire to avoid prejudice AT ALL COSTS, they are happy to put their head in the sand and shy away from real issues affecting this country.

Tackling these issues head on and acknowlegding there is a problem is the way to approach these sort of debates. Not filling the pages with "clever" irony.

[Daggers]

It may have been a little hasty to accuse blacks or asians of this particular shooting but the reactions of a few on here suggest that, in the interests of political correctness and a desire to avoid prejudice AT ALL COSTS, they are happy to put their head in the sand and shy away from real issues affecting this country.

Maybe this is because the issue is gun-crime, not black-on-black gun crime (which sounds like a weird anti-Dylan album).

You can try to single out any unique feature if you care to, but the simple fact is that we are currently allowing the growth of gang culture in schools across the country and not being tough enough on those that would carry weapons of any type.

The answer is not to debate the colour of the matter, raising it purely serves as a distraction that allows people to quibble rather than addressing the nut of the problem.

You can defend the introduction to this thread if you wish, but my point of view is that it is symptomatic as to why nothing ever gets done.

This has piss-all to do with being PC...and everything with wanting gun crime addressed in a clear and coherent manner.

[Dr The Singh]

Clearly introducing race into the debate is always going to provoke a strong reaction one way or another.

However I find it disappointing that as soon as a comment like this is made you get a herd of posters hammering out ironic and sarcastic comments. In some cases, when the original comment is ludicrous and naive then fair enough. This, in my opinion, wasn't one of those times.

In no way do I tolerate racism or encourage stereotyping however the reality is that there is a problem with black on black gun crime in this country. Living in London has particularly demonstrated this and there is now a specialist police unit (Operation Trident) set up to deal with this and it's related problems.

It may have been a little hasty to accuse blacks or asians of this particular shooting but the reactions of a few on here suggest that, in the interests of political correctness and a desire to avoid prejudice AT ALL COSTS, they are happy to put their head in the sand and shy away from real issues affecting this country.

Tackling these issues head on and acknowlegding there is a problem is the way to approach these sort of debates. Not filling the pages with "clever" irony.

I can see where your comming from but things are alot more complicated then just labelling groups

For eg. you can't label all Asians or any other race with the same stick!!

For one I hate the word Asian, it means nothing to me, as my race or background is about as similar to a bengali muslim as it is to a nazi white supremisist from Alabama. There is so much disparity between the 'Asian' cultures and races and there relationships between each other are as just as complicated!!

As for politically correctness, for example Bhangra nights where the people are predominantly Punjabi or Sikh, i would have no issue in saying that there is an issue with punjabi people at such venues, because that is factually true, but in the case at Loughborough there was a blanket statement saying blacks and Asians, without knowing the facts!!

I agree that there is alot of 'jockeying' when race is an issue, but there are factual cases where the is an issue with blacks and gun crime in london, and an issue with muslim integration in for eg bradford. But if someone was to say that there was an Asian integration issue in bradford,that would be wrong because those areas and those people that have been afffected with this problem are 100% muslim, not Sikhs nor any other 'Asian' community.

I'm all for having a debate, but let's get the facts first and let's get our terminology correct!!!

[James.]

This has piss-all to do with being PC...and everything with wanting gun crime addressed in a clear and coherent manner.

The point I was making is that if this is to be achieved we need to recognise that a significant part of the problem involves the black community.

I wouldn't say I was particularly defending what was said earlier in the thread. As you can see I described it as a little hasty. I'm just disappointed that as soon as a comment like that is made people join the irony bandwagon and dismiss these comments as racist and stupid.

Sensible debate and reaction is far more effective than some of the posts I've seen here.

Maybe my opinion is slightly distorted by the fact I live in London where the problem receives more exposure (demonstrated by the reaction of the police in forming Trident).

[Rincewind]

says the poster with a gun-toting outlaw as an avatar. (Dagenham Dave)

There is a problem with the gun-gangs but its not as bad as America for instance. It still needs to be addressd though before it gets worse. If that means upsetting a few people of certain etnicinicties then it must be done to protect the vast majority of those cultures who are law-abiding.

Asia is an huge continant which covers China as well as India and Pakistan, so as The Sing says to label a peron as 'Asian' means nothing. It's like a Mancurian lcalling somebody from Leicester a Southerner. or an American calling someone from Glasgo an Englishman.

[Manwell Pablo]

I can see where your comming from but things are alot more complicated then just labelling groups

For eg. you can't label all Asians or any other race with the same stick!!

For one I hate the word Asian, it means nothing to me, as my race or background is about as similar to a bengali muslim as it is to a nazi white supremisist from Alabama. There is so much disparity between the 'Asian' cultures and races and there relationships between each other are as just as complicated!!

As for politically correctness, for example Bhangra nights where the people are predominantly Punjabi or Sikh, i would have no issue in saying that there is an issue with punjabi people at such venues, because that is factually true, but in the case at Loughborough there was a blanket statement saying blacks and Asians, without knowing the facts!!

I agree that there is alot of 'jockeying' when race is an issue, but there are factual cases where the is an issue with blacks and gun crime in london, and an issue with muslim integration in for eg bradford. But if someone was to say that there was an Asian integration issue in bradford,that would be wrong because those areas and those people that have been afffected with this problem are 100% muslim, not Sikhs nor any other 'Asian' community.

I'm all for having a debate, but let's get the facts first and let's get our terminology correct!!!

We've had this discussion, it's your the description of your race not nationality so to speak. I'm White western European which means I get thrown into the barrel with Germans, France Spain etc despite being very differnt to them. You get thrown in with most of southern asia.

[James.]

I can see where your comming from but things are alot more complicated then just labelling groups

For eg. you can't label all Asians or any other race with the same stick!!

For one I hate the word Asian, it means nothing to me, as my race or background is about as similar to a bengali muslim as it is to a nazi white supremisist from Alabama. There is so much disparity between the 'Asian' cultures and races and there relationships between each other are as just as complicated!!

As for politically correctness, for example Bhangra nights where the people are predominantly Punjabi or Sikh, i would have no issue in saying that there is an issue with punjabi people at such venues, because that is factually true, but in the case at Loughborough there was a blanket statement saying blacks and Asians, without knowing the facts!!

I agree that there is alot of 'jockeying' when race is an issue, but there are factual cases where the is an issue with blacks and gun crime in london, and an issue with muslim integration in for eg bradford. But if someone was to say that there was an Asian integration issue in bradford,that would be wrong because those areas and those people that have been afffected with this problem are 100% muslim, not Sikhs nor any other 'Asian' community.

I'm all for having a debate, but let's get the facts first and let's get our terminology correct!!!

I completely accept your points (after all as a white male I'm not really in any position to debate your distinctions!) and will be careful with my terminology in the future. I guess my focus was really on the black community (and yes I am aware that there are significant cultural divides within this community as well).

As a resident of London when talking about these problems there is certainly less exposure given to the problems facing/within Punjabi or Sikh communities.

[Dr The Singh]

We've had this discussion, it's your the description of your race not nationality so to speak. I'm White western European which means I get thrown into the barrel with Germans, France Spain etc despite being very differnt to them. You get thrown in with most of southern asia.

No, it's majority of Asians description, why would you put a label on someone or group who do not want it. For example, each in this country have there own political parties, each have seperately formed there own groups each have asked parlianment for there OWN individual rights, not as a collective one!!!

In a country so small and having vast cultures, it doesn't label all whites as europeans does it???? Whoever decides thses labels, should think again!!!

[Dr The Singh]

I completely accept your points (after all as a white male I'm not really in any position to debate your distinctions!) and will be careful with my terminology in the future. I guess my focus was really on the black community (and yes I am aware that there are significant cultural divides within this community as well).

As a resident of London when talking about these problems there is certainly less exposure given to the problems facing/within Punjabi or Sikh communities.

Every culture, race etc faces problems and I agree it's wrong to avoid them, they all need to be tackled for the good of the country!!!

[Daggers]

The point I was making is that if this is to be achieved we need to recognise that a significant part of the problem involves the black community.

And again, I believe that colour is immaterial when it comes to gun crime, being black does not predispose you to killing someone. Being involved in criminal activities and carrying a gun does.

Gun-related crime kills, maims and intimidates, and is frequently linked to gang activity and the illegal drugs trade in the UK

Source: Home Office

I see nothing positive in saying that black people lie at the root cause of the significant part of gun crime, the Home Office Report (pdf) states that predisposition to occasion violence on another person is the result of the following:

• being male;

• having committed an anti-social behaviour act in the last 12 months;

• having friends/siblings who have been in trouble with the police in the last year;

• perceiving own parents to have poor parenting skills;

• spending little time with parents;

• having been suspended or expelled from school;

• perceiving school to have bad teaching skills and discipline (ages 10 to 15);

• not trusting the police; and

• being drunk more than once a month or taken drugs in last 12 months.

Tick those boxes, give access to a weapon and you have a serious incident waiting to happen - colour is immaterial in this issue.

[Manwell Pablo]

And again, I believe that colour is immaterial when it comes to gun crime, being black does not predispose you to killing someone. Being involved in criminal activities and carrying a gun does.

Source: Home Office

I see nothing positive in saying that black people lie at the root cause of the significant part of gun crime, the Home Office Report (pdf) states that predisposition to occasion violence on another person is the result of the following:

• being male;

• having committed an anti-social behaviour act in the last 12 months;

• having friends/siblings who have been in trouble with the police in the last year;

• perceiving own parents to have poor parenting skills;

• spending little time with parents;

• having been suspended or expelled from school;

• perceiving school to have bad teaching skills and discipline (ages 10 to 15);

• not trusting the police; and

• being drunk more than once a month or taken drugs in last 12 months.

Tick those boxes, give access to a weapon and you have a serious incident waiting to happen - colour is immaterial in this issue.

Dave I bet you a pint the bloke who shot that student was black .

[Daggers]

Dave I bet you a pint the bloke who shot that student was black .

Feck off

[Dames]

Just my input here.

The majority of people known as 'Road guys' who deal and carry guns are Black.

Its not a racist view its the truth but people jump as quickly on the racist bandwagon as quickly as the people who jump on it was the black guy bandwagon.

I know alot of people who are 'Road guys' and they are black.

Its how the streets are these days.

White people generally hang about in large groups wearing burberry or whatever and pick on random loners.

The Black People are less random (usually attacking someone who has offered them out or someone they have 'beef' with) with there attacks but they use weapons or what not when they do.

You probably think i'm chatting shit but most of the people here are older and don't have as much first hand experience on the modern day streets.

[James.]

And again, I believe that colour is immaterial when it comes to gun crime, being black does not predispose you to killing someone. Being involved in criminal activities and carrying a gun does.

Source: Home Office

I see nothing positive in saying that black people lie at the root cause of the significant part of gun crime, the Home Office Report (pdf) states that predisposition to occasion violence on another person is the result of the following:

• being male;

• having committed an anti-social behaviour act in the last 12 months;

• having friends/siblings who have been in trouble with the police in the last year;

• perceiving own parents to have poor parenting skills;

• spending little time with parents;

• having been suspended or expelled from school;

• perceiving school to have bad teaching skills and discipline (ages 10 to 15);

• not trusting the police; and

• being drunk more than once a month or taken drugs in last 12 months.

Tick those boxes, give access to a weapon and you have a serious incident waiting to happen - colour is immaterial in this issue.

At what point did I say being black predisposes you to committing crime? Utter nonsense.

Resources should be focussed into the right areas. Hence why we have a specialist police operation, with the backing of the Home Office, tackling gun crime in the black community.

This hasn't been done BECAUSE they are black, it's been done because they aware of the specific problems in these communities that need to be tackled, both from a cultural and social perspective.

Dave I bet you a pint the bloke who shot that student was black .

Exactly the sort of comment that serves zero purpose in this debate. Well done you.

[Graz]

This story doesn't shock me at all. Student town. Masses of drinking. RnB night. Thousands of people in attendance no doubt. Conflict is always likely. And in todays society, it's more likely to result in a knife or gun attack.

I'm a student at Loughborough, and students had nothing to do with the shooting from what I've heard. In my 3 years here I've only ever even seen 1 fight in the Union (others have happened obviously, but there aren't many) and everyone has always said it's a peaceful place, and people here aren't looking for trouble.

Saturday night, apparently about 90% of the people there were not students, and the guy who got arrested isn't a student.

Thankfully I wasn't there out Saturday, so when I woke up on Sunday morning to hear about it I was absolutely shocked. Everyone here is just amazed that something like that could actually happen here, where as I say, there's usually no trouble whatsoever. I can't see what could possibly possess people to take guns and tear gas to a gig, especially what was a pretty small one anyway.

[Manwell Pablo]

Exactly the sort of comment that serves zero purpose in this debate. Well done you.

Do you mind sir? I'm trying to set up a wager with my good friend Dangenham Dave.