Madeleine McCann

[Ric Flair]

The other issue is that there had been 2 break-ins in the adjacent apartments during the three weeks before the incident.

 

Between January and when they arrived there had been a four fold increase of burglaries in that neighborhood.

 

I can't imagine that wasn't common knowledge,

 

There were other couples in that party leaving their kids as well, i'm astonished by this.

[GingerrrFox]

To this day I still believe my original theory that they gave her some sort of sedation so that she would go to sleep and everything spiralled from there.

[Ric Flair]

To this day I still believe my original theory that they gave her some sort of sedation so that she would go to sleep and everything spiralled from there.

 

Sedation doesn't make blood present, which was detected by the sniffer dogs behind the sofa and in the rental car. Unless the kid was so drugged up, she got out of bed and fell and died as a result of it.

 

Also, the night previous the kids had woken up scared and cried out for their parents. The supposed sedation must have been shit? Or as a result they increased the dosage the next night and?????

[Smudge]

There were other couples in that party leaving their kids as well, i'm astonished by this.

Yep!

 

Matt Oldfield went to check on them at 9:30pm but didn't visually look at them, just listened. At 10pm Kate went back and unless the door hadn't slammed, she would have not gone in. Which means that if Matt had done his stint at 10:30 by not visually checking the kids they would have been unseen for hours.

 

The other issue is that the door to the apartment cannot be seen from the Tapas bar even if you were facing it which by some accounts they were not.

[ADK]

For all we know the friends could have been in on it too.

[Guest MattP]

For all we know the friends could have been in on it too.

 

Let's bring Jimmy Savile in on it while we're at it.

[GingerrrFox]

Sedation doesn't make blood present, which was detected by the sniffer dogs behind the sofa and in the rental car. Unless the kid was so drugged up, she got out of bed and fell and died as a result of it.

 

Also, the night previous the kids had woken up scared and cried out for their parents. The supposed sedation must have been shit? Or as a result they increased the dosage the next night and?????

 

I said at the time I bet the kids were just put to bed the first night and woke up not knowing where their parents were, obviously the commotion with the crying etc so the night after they used a little sedation so that they wouldn't wake up this time and she fell from the bed, banged her head and obviously through nobody being there to look after her and all the other children fast asleep....

[Ric Flair]

For all we know the friends could have been in on it too.

 

9 people and not one of them has cracked and blabbed? Not one of them has left a trail of evidence?

 

That said, wotsit Tanners changing of her story more than her kegs is absurd and doesn't help matters.

[Ric Flair]

I said at the time I bet the kids were just put to bed the first night and woke up not knowing where their parents were, obviously the commotion with the crying etc so the night after they used a little sedation so that they wouldn't wake up this time and she fell from the bed, banged her head and obviously through nobody being there to look after her and all the other children fast asleep....

 

The blood was found behind the sofa according to that Portuguese fella, how was it there and not anywhere near her bed? Unless she heard her Dad talking to that bloke and she went to the window and then fell and died. If that was to be the case the next person to check on the kids was Kate at 10pm when she raised the alarm that Maddie was missing. To clear the crime scene and the body within a matter of minutes is surely nigh on impossible if it wasn't pre-planned?

[ADK]

9 people and not one of them has cracked and blabbed? Not one of them has left a trail of evidence?

 

That said, wotsit Tanners changing of her story more than her kegs is absurd and doesn't help matters.

 

I don't know but if your friends child had died and they had concocted a cover story that you either knew or strongly suspected was fake, would you go to the police about it? Assuming you didn't think it was a murder surely a lot of people wouldn't want to betray a friend?

[GingerrrFox]

The blood was found behind the sofa according to that Portuguese fella, how was it there and not anywhere near her bed? Unless she heard her Dad talking to that bloke and she went to the window and then fell and died. If that was to be the case the next person to check on the kids was Kate at 10pm when she raised the alarm that Maddie was missing. To clear the crime scene and the body within a matter of minutes is surely nigh on impossible if it wasn't pre-planned?

 

Clean up job and missed the blood near the sofa is my view. I don't think they meant to kill her but I think she had an accident and no one was there to look after her. The whole kidnap thing just makes no sense to me, I believe they know what happened to her, you just have to look at the Mum and you can tell something is not right.

Edited 17 October 2013 by GingerrrFox

[Ric Flair]

I don't know but if your friends child had died and they had concocted a cover story that you either knew or strongly suspected was fake, would you go to the police about it? Assuming you didn't think it was a murder surely a lot of people wouldn't want to betray a friend?

 

We're talking about one of the most high profile abductions in history and after nearly 7 years of it being in the limelight i'd hazard a guess that one of them would have cracked. You could argue that the longer it goes on, the less likely they would divulge as they'd be guilty of concealing information and would be sent to prison themselves but I fail to see how 9 people could keep this secret of a supposed horrible accident.

[Ric Flair]

Clean up job and missed the blood near the sofa is my view. I don't think they meant to kill her but I think she had an accident and no one was there to look after her. The whole kidnap thing just makes no sense to me, I believe they know what happened to her, you just have to look at the Mum and you can tell something is not right.

 

I can't see it myself. There's only an hour or so where they're unaccounted for from early evening to going to the tapas restaurant. To have cleaned up so thoroughly and disposed of a body without being seen and then managed to go for dinner and carry out this whole pretence is outrageous. If it did turn out to be the case then i'd lose all hope of humanity.

 

I agree they are a shifty pair, can't put my finger on it. I have always assumed they're just so wracked with guilt for leaving their kid, if it's more I can't believe they'd not be caught.

[GingerrrFox]

I can't see it myself. There's only an hour or so where they're unaccounted for from early evening to going to the tapas restaurant. To have cleaned up so thoroughly and disposed of a body without being seen and then managed to go for dinner and carry out this whole pretence is outrageous. If it did turn out to be the case then i'd lose all hope of humanity.

 

I agree they are a shifty pair, can't put my finger on it. I have always assumed they're just so wracked with guilt for leaving their kid, if it's more I can't believe they'd not be caught.

 

You don't think you couldn't clean up a mess in that time frame? What about the bloke who said he saw a man carrying a young girl's body that night? The whole kidnap thing is nonsense, nearly everybody in the Western world knows Madeline McCann,  if anybody had seen that little girl in the following weeks they would have rung the alarm. The fact they think she can be living somewhere else and living a completely different life is farcical. 

Edited 17 October 2013 by GingerrrFox

[The Year Of The Fox]

Have they ever searched the sea close to the resort?

I realise now a body wouldnt be there anyway with tides etc but it seems an obvious overlook.

[Ric Flair]

You don't think you couldn't clean up a mess in that time frame? What about the bloke who said he saw a man carrying a young girl's body that night? The whole kidnap thing is nonsense, nearly everybody in the Western world knows Madeline McCann,  if anybody had seen that little girl in the following weeks they would have rung the alarm. The fact they think she can be living somewhere else and living a completely different life is farcical. 

 

Have you not read the news in the last few years where girls have been held captive and presumed dead? Take this week where that deaf girl was held for ten years and repeatedly raped. Now I don't know the circumstances behind how she went missing but to say it's farcical that Madeline couldn't be kidnapped and not found for many years is complete bollocks given recent examples of such goings on.

 

Going back to your first point and here is the only plausible chain of events is that it was Gerry seen carrying a child towards the beach about 9.30pm. If that was him, then had she died before they went out at 8.30pm and they cleaned up before going out. Where were they keeping her from 8.30-9.30pm when Kate then finally raised the alarm at 10pm that she'd been abducted. It was highly risky to allow other parents such as Matt Oldfield to go and check on them and their kids if the kid had snuffed it already. Wherever she was being kept it would have required further cleaning of the scene, which bearing in mind Gerry was supposedly only gone for 10-15 minutes and had been spotted talking to some geezer for a few minutes, it doesn't give long to get rid (9.30pm sighting) clean the gaff again and then get back to the tapas party all in time for Kate to then mosey on along at 10pm to finally raise the alarm.

 

If you'd accidentally killed your kid and this was all playing out, why would you leave the apartment unlocked with the risk of someone finding her dead?

Have they ever searched the sea close to the resort?

I realise now a body wouldnt be there anyway with tides etc but it seems an obvious overlook.

 

I'm pretty sure a thorough search was done within hours of the alarm being raised that she was missing. The whole gaff was on lockdown

[Bobby Hundreds]

If she's alive, she's not lived well.

[l444ry]

They still needed to hide the body before 10pm when the call was made. Gerry McCann was supposedly seen hanging about the tennis courts around 6pm, so can we assume that Maddie accidentally died between then and 8.30pm when they went for dinner. It got dark around 9ish so any moving of a body would be highly risky to do until after then. So that then only gives the pair of them an hour to have disposed of her and cleaned up, I suppose this could tie in with a witness saying they saw someone carrying a child towards the beach around 9.05pm, in exactly the same way that Gerry carried his other kid/s.

 

Also, how on earth would witnesses who spent time with the McCann's that night not have suspected something. We're not talking about Rose and Fred West here, this is what we're perceived to believe a normal couple and not two psychopaths. If a terrible accident had happened and they tried to cover it up, wouldn't it have been noticeable to people around them?

You assume, Ric, that Madeleine died on the day Kate McCann set the "alarm". She might well have died the day before.

[GingerrrFox]

Have you not read the news in the last few years where girls have been held captive and presumed dead? Take this week where that deaf girl was held for ten years and repeatedly raped. Now I don't know the circumstances behind how she went missing but to say it's farcical that Madeline couldn't be kidnapped and not found for many years is complete bollocks given recent examples of such goings on.

 

Going back to your first point and here is the only plausible chain of events is that it was Gerry seen carrying a child towards the beach about 9.30pm. If that was him, then had she died before they went out at 8.30pm and they cleaned up before going out. Where were they keeping her from 8.30-9.30pm when Kate then finally raised the alarm at 10pm that she'd been abducted. It was highly risky to allow other parents such as Matt Oldfield to go and check on them and their kids if the kid had snuffed it already. Wherever she was being kept it would have required further cleaning of the scene, which bearing in mind Gerry was supposedly only gone for 10-15 minutes and had been spotted talking to some geezer for a few minutes, it doesn't give long to get rid (9.30pm sighting) clean the gaff again and then get back to the tapas party all in time for Kate to then mosey on along at 10pm to finally raise the alarm.

 

If you'd accidentally killed your kid and this was all playing out, why would you leave the apartment unlocked with the risk of someone finding her dead?

 

I'm pretty sure a thorough search was done within hours of the alarm being raised that she was missing. The whole gaff was on lockdown

 

From the minute the alarm was raised nobody was looking for a dead young girl they were looking for a kidnapped girl, so everybody was on the look out for a girl fitting Maddie's description, I remember some bloke being arrested with his own child because she looked like Maddie at one point. That night nobody was checking on their children except themselves, that's why the individual parents kept getting up and going 1 by 1 to their own apartments. Gerry on Crimewatch the other night said he thought it was strange that the door had been open wider than the last time he went in there so he hadn't anticipated anybody going in since he did last time.

 

I think they went to the restaurant to keep up pretences as otherwise everybody else would be saying "oh where are Gerry and Kate?". If memory serves me right didn't one of the blood sniffer dogs stop at one of the wardrobes in the apartment? You could quite easily store the body of a young child within there. There's just too many questions surrounding them and there is barely anything that correlates with an outsider abducting her.

Edited 17 October 2013 by GingerrrFox

[Smudge]

You don't think you couldn't clean up a mess in that time frame? What about the bloke who said he saw a man carrying a young girl's body that night? The whole kidnap thing is nonsense, nearly everybody in the Western world knows Madeline McCann,  if anybody had seen that little girl in the following weeks they would have rung the alarm. The fact they think she can be living somewhere else and living a completely different life is farcical. 

On the balance, I'd say it's more probable that the child was abducted than had an accident or was killed.

 

It was so easy to gain access, in fact the only way in to the apartment is off the street and with the door unlocked it would have been relatively easy to get in undetected. The shutters were not damaged so they must have been opened from the inside.

 

There is no evidence to suggest that she was injured or harmed in that apartment apart from two dogs finding smells which of itself isn't evidence. The blood was found behind the sofa, how did that happen? Surely if hurt it would have been somewhere in the open area of the apartment.

 

If she had been hurt before 9:30 Matt Oldfield would have to be an accomplice as he volunteered to go and check on the McCann's children and Kate was happy with him doing that. Assuming he wasn't who did the clean up? Not Gerry, he was at the table and not Kate, she gave the alarm not long after she left to check on them.

 

Of course they could all be covering up but as I say on balance that's not likely and from the MET's point of view they think the same since they are following the abduction theory.

[Mark_w]

You assume, Ric, that Madeleine died on the day Kate McCann set the "alarm". She might well have died the day before.

 

But there are pictures of her on that day aren't there? She looked very alive to me. I assume the police have got witnesses who have confirmed that the pictures were taken on that day.

[Jace]

When you look at all the evidence against the Mccanns much of the evidence contradicts itself, for example some parts explain how their was several traces of blood in the apartment and in the boot of the car and then other parts go on to suggest she was sedated by the Mccanns and Gerry McCann walked down to the beach and dumped her body? Well if she had died from accidental sedation then why would their be traces of blood everywhere and if Gerry McCann eventually walked down to the beach with her body from the apartment then why go and drive around with her in the boot first?

[Mark_w]

There is no evidence to suggest that she was injured or harmed in that apartment apart from two dogs finding smells which of itself isn't evidence.

 

There's also no real evidence that she was abducted is there?

 

Let's face it, either option is fairly plausible and odds are we'll never know.

[Ric Flair]

You assume, Ric, that Madeleine died on the day Kate McCann set the "alarm". She might well have died the day before.

 

If that's the case I find that incredible. Haven't witnesses said they saw her by the pool that day?

[Jace]

You assume, Ric, that Madeleine died on the day Kate McCann set the "alarm". She might well have died the day before.

It has been confirmed by several witnesses that she was alive with the Mccanns on the day of the disappearance and have photographic evidence from earlier that day from holiday pictures too. i suppose keeping an open mind that all the witnesses could be involved in a coverup and the date of the camera fixed although I would have expected detectives would have already investigated this but overall looks very unlikely