Madeleine McCann

[Ric Flair]

From the minute the alarm was raised nobody was looking for a dead young girl they were looking for a kidnapped girl, so everybody was on the look out for a girl fitting Maddie's description, I remember some bloke being arrested with his own child because she looked like Maddie at one point. That night nobody was checking on their children except themselves, that's why the individual parents kept getting up and going 1 by 1 to their own apartments. Gerry on Crimewatch the other night said he thought it was strange that the door had been open wider than the last time he went in there so he hadn't anticipated anybody going in since he did last time.

 

I think they went to the restaurant to keep up pretences as otherwise everybody else would be saying "oh where are Gerry and Kate?". If memory serves me right didn't one of the blood sniffer dogs stop at one of the wardrobes in the apartment? You could quite easily store the body of a young child within there. There's just too many questions surrounding them and there is barely anything that correlates with an outsider abducting her.

 

Sniffer dog supposedly found the cuddle cat toy in the wardrobe which had the smell of death on, not sure if the wardrobe had it on it's own. There was a distinct difference between smell of death and blood, the different dogs picked up these scents in different locations. Blood was found behind the sofa and in the rental car they rented 3 weeks after the disappearance, the smell of death was found in a different part of the car, on Kate McCann's clothes and on cuddle cat when it was found in the wardrobe.

 

I know there's a difference between searching for an abducted girl and a dead girl but they would still search the close proximity with a fine comb.

[Ric Flair]

When you look at all the evidence against the Mccanns much of the evidence contradicts itself, for example some parts explain how their was several traces of blood in the apartment and in the boot of the car and then other parts go on to suggest she was sedated by the Mccanns and Gerry McCann walked down to the beach and dumped her body? Well if she had died from accidental sedation then why would their be traces of blood everywhere and if Gerry McCann eventually walked down to the beach with her body from the apartment then why go and drive around with her in the boot first?

 

The car boot business is bizarre as this was a car they rented 3 weeks AFTER the disappearance.

[GingerrrFox]

The car boot business is bizarre as this was a car they rented 3 weeks AFTER the disappearance.

 

Buried her, then reburied her somewhere else? Just playing Devil's advocate.

[Smudge]

There's also no real evidence that she was abducted is there?

 

Let's face it, either option is fairly plausible and odds are we'll never know.

No there isn't and I didn't say there was

 

What I am saying that it's more probable that she was abducted on what we know.

 

Don't you think that the MET would be giving the harm theory a lot more credence than they are, if that was a possibility?

[Mark_w]

No there isn't and I didn't say there was

 

What I am saying that it's more probable that she was abducted on what we know.

 

Don't you think that the MET would be giving the harm theory a lot more credence than they are, if that was a possibility?

 

If they were investigating it I doubt they'd make it as public. Making information about a potential abduction available to the public could result in the guilty parties being identified, if it's down to the parents the general public aren't going to be able to help that much. I think there's every chance that they could be following up both possibilities, not saying they are, just that it's possible.

Edited 17 October 2013 by Mark_w

[Ric Flair]

On the balance, I'd say it's more probable that the child was abducted than had an accident or was killed.

 

It was so easy to gain access, in fact the only way in to the apartment is off the street and with the door unlocked it would have been relatively easy to get in undetected. The shutters were not damaged so they must have been opened from the inside.

 

There is no evidence to suggest that she was injured or harmed in that apartment apart from two dogs finding smells which of itself isn't evidence. The blood was found behind the sofa, how did that happen? Surely if hurt it would have been somewhere in the open area of the apartment.

 

If she had been hurt before 9:30 Matt Oldfield would have to be an accomplice as he volunteered to go and check on the McCann's children and Kate was happy with him doing that. Assuming he wasn't who did the clean up? Not Gerry, he was at the table and not Kate, she gave the alarm not long after she left to check on them.

 

Of course they could all be covering up but as I say on balance that's not likely and from the MET's point of view they think the same since they are following the abduction theory.

 

This was what i'd been mulling over as well and made reference to it earlier. You'd not leave your apartment unlocked if you're kid had died accidentally and you were in the process of covering it up, nor would you allow someone to go and check on them.

 

The shutters is what interests me the most, how do they explain there being no sign of entry or exit? There was a build up of moss on the ledge that was completely undisturbed and impossible not to do so by someone entering/exiting there. It was also impossible to shut them or open them from the outside. I'm suspicious of why the McCann's believe this was how the abductor took Maddy and left the apartment.

[Smudge]

You assume, Ric, that Madeleine died on the day Kate McCann set the "alarm". She might well have died the day before.

On Crimewatch re-enactment, Gerry said he and Kate had booked Tennis lessons so presumably the children were at the creche and he picked them up at 5pm. I assume that would easily corroborated by the staff and no doubt there would be records to prove it.

[Ric Flair]

Buried her, then reburied her somewhere else? Just playing Devil's advocate.

 

The smell of death would have sent the dog bonkers! Hahahaaa I wonder if there was a marked difference in it's behaviour between the car scene and the apartment.

[Jace]

Personally I think the worst piece of evidence against the McCanns is this 'cuddle cat' that apparently smelt of cadaver and washed thoroughly by them straight after the disappearance. If that was your child and someone had snatched them would you wash it to remove the smell of your child and any crucial DNA left by the intruder? Would explain it though if they had over sedated her and 'cuddle cat' had been next to her when she died. I don't think they did kill her myself but someone certainly isn't adding up with their story

[Uncle Albert]

Buried her, then reburied her somewhere else? Just playing Devil's advocate.

 

No chance would Kate or Gerry McCann have been able to rebury her once they have raised the alarm that Madeline had been taken, they would never have been allowed to roam Portugal on their own once she was declared missing.

 

I honestly don't think Madeline was murdered by either of her parents, I do think she was taken, why and how is the mystery.

 

We'll never ever know the truth and we'll unfortunately never see Madeline again.

[The Year Of The Fox]

The car boot business is bizarre as this was a car they rented 3 weeks AFTER the disappearance.

Did they continue with their holiday after the abduction then or had they gone home then came back to help with the search?

[Ric Flair]

Did they continue with their holiday after the abduction then or had they gone home then came back to help with the search?

 

They stayed in Portugal for several weeks I believe? Gerry did return back to England briefly and came back.

[Jace]

The car boot business is bizarre as this was a car they rented 3 weeks AFTER the disappearance.

Yeah exactly all sounds strange to me sniffer dogs sniffing for cadaver are known to be very accurate over 90% but something is not adding up here, if the car boot is not credible evidence then surely the evidence regarding the same dogs sniffing for cadaver in the apartment should possibly not be credible either. Problem with this case there is too much bad evidence regarding a number of different possibilities

[harpendenfox]

I feel almost certain no one could have simply carried her down to the Ocean without being seen. It's about a 8 to 10 minute walk from the apartment they were staying in down to the beachfront, and you have to walk right through the middle of Luz's small village centre. I think you'd be seen by numerous people. I think whoever did whatever to Madeleine, she must have been bundled into a car. I go to Luz 2/3 times per year, so whilst nothing in life is certain, that would be my considered view

[GingerrrFox]

Didn't matey change his story about checking on Maddie as well? He said her didn't check on her then he remembered he told Kate he would check whilst he was checking his own kids and then didn't he say he checked on her twice? I forgot about the washing of the cuddly toy, that is so suspicious it's unreal.

[The Year Of The Fox]

There are so many dodgy occurances you'd be a fool to dismiss anything.

[l444ry]

But there are pictures of her on that day aren't there? She looked very alive to me. I assume the police have got witnesses who have confirmed that the pictures were taken on that day.

There is the famous "Last Photo" of Madeleine sat with her father by the pool at 2.29pm on the 4th May. This picture was released three weeks after Madeleine went missing. There was a lot of discussion at the time that it had been photoshopped. Apparently there were 15 other pictures which were never released. No other picture is in the public domain to the best of my knowledge.

[l444ry]

The car boot business is bizarre as this was a car they rented 3 weeks AFTER the disappearance.

Well done for playing Devil's Advocate Ric. You seem to be running with the hounds and chasing with the pack at the same time,

[Uncle Albert]

I feel almost certain no one could have simply carried her down to the Ocean without being seen. It's about a 8 to 10 minute walk from the apartment they were staying in down to the beachfront, and you have to walk right through the middle of Luz's small village centre. I think you'd be seen by numerous people. I think whoever did whatever to Madeleine, she must have been bundled into a car. I go to Luz 2/3 times per year, so whilst nothing in life is certain, that would be my considered view

 

Yeah and surely like you say its an 8-10 minute walk, even a 3 year old would be screaming for her parents or crying? Yet nobody heard or seen anything.

 

The fact she knew her parents were out the night before makes me think she wouldn't have just accepted going with a stranger, yet there was no noise, not everyone in them apartments was out and yet no other hotel guests heard any commotion or seen anyone take Madeline. Just doesn't add up.

[Jace]

The reason why despite all the evidence I don't think it was the Mccanns is because if they had killed her by accidental sedation it would have been much easier and simpler just to admit that and put it down to a terrible accident. Yes they might have faced criminal charges depending on the medication used but if your child had just died would all this be worth it just to save being stricken off the medical board? Only 1 of them would have needed to own up to it anyway

[whoareyaaa]

Its a tough one to call that's for sure, I don't know either way myself they do seem a bit fishy.

 

One thing I noticed when watching Crimewatch the other day was when Kate said Gerry got back from Tennis at 6pm, just something about her voice/face suggests something could have happened then. (probably not).

 

This would then give them time to clean up and plan how they would dispose of the body.

 

Also when I took a look at the new e-fit on Crimewatch I thought straight away it looked similar to Gerry.

 

Why would the abductor go out the window as well if they came in through the front door?

 

Also the Tapas dinner with the there friends doesn't sit right with me either, one or two of them could clearly be in on it or the Mcanns could have hid the body and opened the window in case one of the other families went a checked on the kids and seen she was missing.

[whoareyaaa]

The reason why despite all the evidence I don't think it was the Mccanns is because if they had killed her by accidental sedation it would have been much easier and simpler just to admit that and put it down to a terrible accident. Yes they might have faced criminal charges depending on the medication used but if your child had just died would all this be worth it just to save being stricken off the medical board? Only 1 of them would have needed to own up to it anyway

 

They would have had to make a quick decision, and with them being in different country I don't think they would really stand a chance and they wouldn't want to be spending a day never mind years in a Portuguese prison.

[Mark_w]

The reason why despite all the evidence I don't think it was the Mccanns is because if they had killed her by accidental sedation it would have been much easier and simpler just to admit that and put it down to a terrible accident. Yes they might have faced criminal charges depending on the medication used but if your child had just died would all this be worth it just to save being stricken off the medical board? Only 1 of them would have needed to own up to it anyway

 

I think it would have a lot more to do with being allowed to keep their other two children.

[GingerrrFox]

The reason why despite all the evidence I don't think it was the Mccanns is because if they had killed her by accidental sedation it would have been much easier and simpler just to admit that and put it down to a terrible accident. Yes they might have faced criminal charges depending on the medication used but if your child had just died would all this be worth it just to save being stricken off the medical board? Only 1 of them would have needed to own up to it anyway

Imagine trying to explain to foreign police why your young daughter is dead.

[Ric Flair]

Didn't matey change his story about checking on Maddie as well? He said her didn't check on her then he remembered he told Kate he would check whilst he was checking his own kids and then didn't he say he checked on her twice? I forgot about the washing of the cuddly toy, that is so suspicious it's unreal.

 

But if he was meant to check on her, that means they were comfortable with him doing so and that's highly risky if she'd supposedly already died. Even hiding her in the cupboard, it seems inplausible they'd leave the apartment unlocked.

 

There is the famous "Last Photo" of Madeleine sat with her father by the pool at 2.29pm on the 4th May. This picture was released three weeks after Madeleine went missing. There was a lot of discussion at the time that it had been photoshopped. Apparently there were 15 other pictures which were never released. No other picture is in the public domain to the best of my knowledge.

 

I do find this suspicious too, there's been several things the McCann's have done/not done that makes it easy to point the finger at them. They haven't helped themselves at all and for all my debating in this thread i'm not completely satisified with their story or their theories.