Where to now?

[Fox in a Box]

Shell-shocked, bemused?, angry, worried, face bothered, disengaged, bored, I really am quite worried about where the football club has been going in the last 5 years.

Milan has done wonders with all things OFF the pitch but I'm seriously concerned with our inability to string wins or draws together.

I’m look for guidance.

Enough is Enough or I'm going to turn to Alchopops.

[danny.]

all these kneejerk threads are utterly pointless, and all the same

[Moreton]

Shell-shocked, bemused?, angry, worried, face bothered, disengaged, bored, I really am quite worried about where the football club has been going in the last 5 years.

Milan has done wonders with all things OFF the pitch but I'm seriously concerned with our inability to string wins or draws together.

I’m look for guidance.

Enough is Enough or I'm going to turn to Alchopops.

i think that Holloway should stay as manager. The only thing is he needs to put right mistakes. Such as Clemence. He is being mentioned in other threads about him not pulling his weight and for this reason he should be dropped and replaced by King. He has put right the Hume on the right wing thing and Hayles up front but he needs to iron out all the problems we are having. But he just isnt doing it.

[He's not bald]

all these kneejerk threads are utterly pointless, and all the same

Kneejerk!! after years of the same shite?

I'm bloody worried as well

[Monk]

Anyone fearing relegation should not be accused of jumping to conclusions. Based on the last 3 performances I would challenge anyone to tell me where our next goal is going to come from.

I think we are perfectly capable of staying up, but the way things are going I honestly don't think we will. So to answer your question 'Where to Now?' the answer from me is 'Third Tier Football'

[Babylon]

I have no idea. For all his faults Holloway is a half decent championship manager, baring the wingers our team is a half decent championship team. So why are we in this position?

Thracian will say it's easy, attack and play the kids. Well successive managers have tried that at some point and realised when we attack in numbers we will concede a couple of goals, while just having even more ineffective players higher up the pitch not scoring.

Lets look at the problems...

1) Distribution from the back - N'Gotty is the only centre back we have who is mildly capable of stringing a pass to a midfielder. Do we bring him in in place of what is defensively solid centre back partnership?

2) Clemence - He has a better partner now, so why does he constantly look as though he brings nothing to the game? Do we bring Wesolowski in for him?

3) Wingers - The hungarians were only supposed to be back up, and they look just that. Hume has been off colour there and Clapham I doubt will trouble anyone. I'm not sure what we can do here... do we change formation and go 4-3-3?

4) Strikers - Hayles tries hard but is ineffective, DJ has pace and should definitely start. Hume loses the ball too much but can score the odd goal, Fryatt largely does nothing and Howard is good when used right... but without crosses he is wasted.

We don't have wingers so play without them. I'd go 4-3-3 (Chelsea style) with Wes, Oakley and Clemence in the middle still as we don't have anyone else. Howard up top and DJ and Hume playing off him. Plus maybe swap McAuley for N'Gotty.

[davieG]

I have no idea. For all his faults Holloway is a half decent championship manager, baring the wingers our team is a half decent championship team. So why are we in this position?

Thracian will says it's easy, attack and play the kids. Well successive managers have tried that at some point and realised when we attack in numbers we will concede a couple of goals, while just having even more ineffective players higher up the pitch not scoring.

Lets look at the problems...

1) Distribution from the back - N'Gotty is the only centre back we have who is mildly capable of stringing a pass to a midfielder. Do we bring him in in place of what is defensively solid centre back partnership?

2) Clemence - He has a better partner now, so why does he constantly look as though he brings nothing to the game? Do we bring Wesolowski in for him?

3) Wingers - The hungarians were only supposed to be back up, and they look just that. Hume has been off colour there and Clapham I doubt will trouble anyone. I'm not sure what we can do here... do we change formation and go 4-3-3?

4) Strikers - Hayles tries hard but is ineffective, DJ has pace and should definitely start. Hume loses the ball too much but can score the odd goal, Fryatt largely does nothing and Howard is good when used right... but without crosses he is wasted.

We don't have wingers so play without them. I'd go 4-3-3 with Wes, Oakley, Clemence in the middle still as we don't have anyone else, Howard up top and DJ and Hume playing off him. Plus maybe swap McAuley for N'Gotty.

I'm inclined to your thinking but I wouldn't even have Howard in there I'd like to, can it be any worse DJ, Fryatt and Hume. Let's get mobile.

As for crosses & Howard what happened last night - they must have been pretty crap crosses or Howard is just shit.

Watford : Leciester

Goal Attempts 6 : 5 Goal Attempts

On Target 5 : 0 On Target

Crosses 7 : 16 Crosses

Corners 6 : 1 Corners

Offside 1 : 9 Offside

Fouls 7 : 8 Fouls

Free kicks 18 : 8 Free kicks

Yellow cards - : - Yellow cards

Red cards 1 : - Red cards

% Possession 46 : 54 Possession %

[Monk]

About 12 of the 16 crosses were utterly awful.

[Wycombe Fox]

to the

[Metartarsal]

Milan has done wonders with all things OFF the pitch .

I’m look for guidance.

Sorry - apart from hiring more managers than the NHS, interfering with their decisions before sacking most of them, paying nothing for the club up front, giving the press cheap headlines, not delivering on them - how have City improved off the field?

[Babylon]

I'm inclined to your thinking but I wouldn't even have Howard in there I'd like to, can it be any worse DJ, Fryatt and Hume. Let's get mobile.

As for crosses & Howard what happened last night - they must have been pretty crap crosses or Howard is just shit.

Indeed I noticed that, I had read a few people say the crosses weren't to hot... maybe someone could confirm??

I'm just not a fan of Fryatt, purely down to that. I think used correctly we have a proven 20 goal a season man in Howard, but I know what you are saying.

[Daggers]

Going on a tour of League 1 grounds actually appeals to me. Sorry, but it does. It would add a level of interest to matches that simply isn't there at the moment - aside from the cheese cobs and the copious quantities of beer there is precious little else to my matchday experience.

This isn't knee-jerk, I've been saying we are going to hit the drop for most of this season as soon as mid-table mediocrity became a distant dream (roughly the same time we conceeded against Blackpool on the opening day of the season). I've seen nothing of note to say we can do anything worthy of pulling clear and with the gap now down to two points all hope I had of an escape is gone.

MM failed to spend enough during the window, he was caught between stools due to his profligate wasting earlier on and had nothing left in his kitty. With Holloway demonstrating the tactical nouse of your average Primary school kid ("throw all the forwards on") and players not digging deep for him what can possibly happen next? Dowie, that's what. That, and a visit from the Guinnes Book of Records to check if we have done the one for 'managers in a season'.

Couple the shitness we have had to watch with the humiliation we would experience if and whenever we would go up (not to mention Game 39) and I have no desire to go there. I don't want to watch anymore of the thrashing around in the Championship like a drowning man - which leaves visiting grounds with terracing and (maybe) having a successful season scoring goals and winning games.

That's where I fancy going.

[davieG]

Indeed I noticed that, I had read a few people say the crosses weren't to hot... maybe someone could confirm??

I'm just not a fan of Fryatt, purely down to that. I think used correctly we have a proven 20 goal a season man in Howard, but I know what you are saying.

Not a fan of Fryatt myself but without wingers we would really need to play the ball through the middle and Howard wouldn't suit that set up, I suppose you could use Hayles or maybe one of the youths

[Manwell Pablo]

Indeed I noticed that, I had read a few people say the crosses weren't to hot... maybe someone could confirm??

I'm just not a fan of Fryatt, purely down to that. I think used correctly we have a proven 20 goal a season man in Howard, but I know what you are saying.

Not techincally true, 19, in all comps, once in his career which has gone on for over a decade.

[Trav Le Bleu]

to the

Pictures speak louder than words!

And I agree with pretty much everything Babylon says. I wish we would just settle on one style and a team that rarely changes more than one or two players from match to match and that we play thorugh the rough patches and stick with it. Everyone keeps saying we need consistancy and we won't get that unless we use a consistant system. It's that simple!

[Babylon]

Not techincally true, 19, in all comps, once in his career which has gone on for over a decade.

I'm counting the one that was given as an own goal... shocking decision it was, was definitely his goal. Robbed I tell you robbed.

Either way... still better than any of our other strikers records at this level.

[Monk]

Going on a tour of League 1 grounds actually appeals to me. Sorry, but it does. It would add a level of interest to matches that simply isn't there at the moment - aside from the cheese cobs and the copious quantities of beer there is precious little else to my matchday experience.

This isn't knee-jerk, I've been saying we are going to hit the drop for most of this season as soon as mid-table mediocrity became a distant dream (roughly the same time we conceeded against Blackpool on the opening day of the season). I've seen nothing of note to say we can do anything worthy of pulling clear and with the gap now down to two points all hope I had of an escape is gone.

MM failed to spend enough during the window, he was caught between stools due to his profligate wasting earlier on and had nothing left in his kitty. With Holloway demonstrating the tactical nouse of your average Primary school kid ("throw all the forwards on") and players not digging deep for him what can possibly happen next? Dowie, that's what. That, and a visit from the Guinnes Book of Records to check if we have done the one for 'managers in a season'.

Couple the shitness we have had to watch with the humiliation we would experience if and whenever we would go up (not to mention Game 39) and I have no desire to go there. I don't want to watch anymore of the thrashing around in the Championship like a drowning man - which leaves visiting grounds with terracing and (maybe) having a successful season scoring goals and winning games.

That's where I fancy going.

I had a conversation along these lines with Alex, Fez & JTB last night.

Yes there is a certain appeal to it, but we really are scraping the barrel in saying that it would be enjoyable. And look at Forest, there is absolutely no guarentee that we would bounce back.

I would rather go down with Holloway than Dowie. Lets face it, Dowie is the only alternative and I don't see what he could possibly bring above and beyond what we currently have. Ollie was not brought in as a quick fix and for a change I would like to see Milan stand by his decisions and take the concequences on the chin rather than resorting to outright panic.

[The People's Hero]

I don't care, I'm going to have a cup of tea and a chocolate biscuit and continue not caring.

Look at you lot caring! How I laugh at you!

I'm even biting my thumb at some of you.

[danny.]

Kneejerk!! after years of the same shite?

I'm bloody worried as well

I mean in the sense that; when we win, we get 100 threads about "only needing 15 points out the next 6 games and we are in the playoffs!!!!!!!!!"

when we lose we get 100 "what now?", "what went wrong?", "ollie out" threads.

If we have won last night this thread would have a "can we get in the playoffs" thread in it's place.

[Daggers]

I had a conversation along these lines with Alex, Fez & JTB last night.

Yes there is a certain appeal to it, but we really are scraping the barrel in saying that it would be enjoyable. And look at Forest, there is absolutely no guarentee that we would bounce back.

I would rather go down with Holloway than Dowie. Lets face it, Dowie is the only alternative and I don't see what he could possibly bring above and beyond what we currently have. Ollie was not brought in as a quick fix and for a change I would like to see Milan stand by his decisions and take the concequences on the chin rather than resorting to outright panic.

Nope - no guarantees, but I can't say I'm that bothered at the moment.

I feel like I am caring for a terminally ill football club. I just want to be able to get the family to agree to turn the damn life support machine off.

I do not believe we will ever truly compete at a top level again, without some mad Russian or a US franchise consortium coming in...and I'm pretty sure I don't want that.

Whatever happens in the future, I am convinced that the only way to turn the club around is to stip it to absolute basics and start over.

[Monk]

I don't care, I'm going to have a cup of tea and a chocolate biscuit and continue not caring.

Look at you lot caring! How I laugh at you!

I'm even biting my thumb at some of you.

I wish I could take it as light heartedly as you

[Bellend Sebastian]

Shell-shocked, bemused?, angry, worried, face bothered, disengaged, bored, I really am quite worried about where the football club has been going in the last 5 years.

Milan has done wonders with all things OFF the pitch but I'm seriously concerned with our inability to string wins or draws together.

I’m look for guidance.

Enough is Enough or I'm going to turn to Alchopops.

This pretty much sums up how I feel. The club is such a different animal to what it was when I started attending games regularly that it is increasingly difficult to feel any sort of association with it. I can cope with underachievement...it comes with the territory for 95 per cent of all football fans, but the relentless tedium of being a football fan in 2008 is starting to make the whole thing seem like a waste of time, and for the first time in over a decade of being a season ticket holder I can envisage a time in the not too distant future where I won't bother getting one anymore.

Some will say it's being disloyal, but to me it's simply a case of not spending a shitload of money and devoting a lot of time to something that isn't providing me with much enjoyment.

I'll retract all this if we win on Saturday

[harpendenfox]

As Babylon says, essentially we have decent players. Even the wingers. Whilst Coventry may have been appalling when they visted the Walkers, both wide men showed they have talent.

I'm convinced the addition of yet more loan signings will make little difference.

We have to stick with what we've got. I'm convinced Holloway needs to stop criticising the players in public, regardless of how shockingly they perform. His public utterances are becoming increasingly scizophrenic, and they're not helpful.

I'm also convinced that Howard and Hume should be the front two. Again I accept that Cov were shocking when we played them, but I like the little and large pairing, and I think they need an extended run together. Hume has his limitations, but I suspect he's one player opponents don't like playing against. I'd perservere with the Hungarians on the flanks.

The inability of our centre backs to make simple passes is an enormous problem, but I fear that N'gotty is just too slow.

I'd be tempted to pair Weso with Oakley for a game simply because we haven't tried it before. I just get the impression that Clemence, good player that he is, is depressed and short on inspiration at the moment.

In conclusion we have to stick with what we've got, and back them. All of us respond better to praise rather than criticism. That's simple human nature. It is of course our right to shout abuse from the stands, or write it here, but I'd suggest it will only add to the increasing negativity surrounding our once proud Club.

We're in a shocking state at this moment in time, but there is only one thing we can do. Support the badge as loudly and proudly as you can.

I think we all deserve medals (or free NHS mental health checks...) as a reward for our loyalty.

[Fox in a Box]

This pretty much sums up how I feel. The club is such a different animal to what it was when I started attending games regularly that it is increasingly difficult to feel any sort of association with it. I can cope with underachievement...it comes with the territory for 95 per cent of all football fans, but the relentless tedium of being a football fan in 2008 is starting to make the whole thing seem like a waste of time, and for the first time in over a decade of being a season ticket holder I can envisage a time in the not too distant future where I won't bother getting one anymore.

Some will say it's being disloyal, but to me it's simply a case of not spending a shitload of money and devoting a lot of time to something that isn't providing me with much enjoyment.

I'll retract all this if we win on Saturday

"......time, and for the first time in over a decade of being a season ticket holder I can envisage a time in the not too distant future where I won't bother getting one anymore....."

I think youve summed me up there too, we either have to improve full stop, or we are looking very much like a league 1 outfit whic would break my heart, do I care yes of course but we need a strong leader who really does send out the right signals.

MILAN! nows the time to stop the idle talk and put yourgood business brain behind a faultering business.

[Wycombe Fox]

Nope - no guarantees, but I can't say I'm that bothered at the moment.

I feel like I am caring for a terminally ill football club. I just want to be able to get the family to agree to turn the damn life support machine off.

I do not believe we will ever truly compete at a top level again, without some mad Russian or a US franchise consortium coming in...and I'm pretty sure I don't want that.

Whatever happens in the future, I am convinced that the only way to turn the club around is to stip it to absolute basics and start over.

Good post Daggers - I feel exactly the same.

I reckon I could trawl through this forum back to about this time last year and the year before and find two very similar posts that I did expressing my total exasperation with our situation at that time and today would be no different.

Owners, managers, coaches and players come and go but the cancer eating away at our club - for the last 4 or 5 years - remains.

How about a religious odd-bod for bit of exorcism?