Holloway staying (for now)

[Ultra]

I'll admit to being very excited at both of their signings, which just exposes Holloway's flaws even more as a terrbile motivator and coach. Of course the players deserve most of the blame but where was the motivation, it obviously wasn't coming from the dressing room.

It wasn't coming on the field either - quite a feat considering we had TWO promotion-winning captains in the side.

How many players (except perhaps for Henderson) actually improved in the last six months of the season?

[Chimp]

What?!? I couldn't think of any, that's why! 20 premiership clubs. None of the top ten changed their managers. 7 of the bottom ten did. Name me the cases where changing a manager brought success, if you can name any, they are a minority.

Then you're not looking hard enough, or, not willing to consider alternatives. There are plenty of example where changing manager has brought success, Ultra has mentioned several already. A prime example would be Forest or Palace.

Either way, there's no guarantees. I'm not saying bringing in a new manager will guarantee success, just that you are wrong in stating that all clubs who 'chopped and changed' managers have failed.

Because he made a mistake. It's a human failing. Martin O'Neill persisted with Fenton, Zagorakis and Gunnlaugsson when they were clearly a grade below the rest. Sack him! He's crap.

It wasn't just a 'mistake', it was a persistent failing that he seemed unwilling to learn by.

But he was isolated, that's gone. He had a chance to save the game and blew it. Nothing to do with playing out of position, just an inabbility to hit the net from 12 yards. Had he scored, no-one would have been talking about tactics now, we'd have been looking forward to new signings and a season of new hope.

Surely you're not thinking that that one penalty miss is to blame for where we are now?

You may not have noticed, the season lasts for 46 games, not 10-15. If he goes after 10 or so games, there will still be three quarters of the season to play for and - as you point out Chimp - we can make a managerial change and this will bring success to our club because it happens in the majority of cases you tell me.

No, I did not say in the 'majority' of cases, I said there are 'many' examples where it did work. Stop twisting my words.

Also, I'm saying that it's better to bring a new manager in during the early summer rather than 15 games or so into the season. Why keep a manager who who don't have 100% faith in? Why 'give him 10-15 games' or so to prove himself? Surely it's better to appoint someone early who you have faith in and then stick with them. That's what brings stability.

Unlikely. You'll wait for every draw or defeat or poor performance and go overboard about it. And if 20,000 others think the same, no-one will get any success because they'll be too fu<king nervous of making a mistake and the crowd getting on their back. Congratulations, you'll succeed in turning us into Nottingham Forest.

It's precisely these sort of arguments that will ensure our club stays in the lower reaches of league football. If he stays, everyone will be waiting for Holloway to fail so that they can have their pound of flesh and say I told you so. I'd much rather he was given time to build a squad around our talented kids and that we went up in a blaze of glory. If we don't go straight up but play brilliant football and put a few teams to the sword, I'll settle for that as a start. As long as progress is being made, I'll settle for that. As long as the players show some pride in the shirt and TRY to win games, I'll settle for that.

How else are we to judge him but on results? He might very well play, in my eyes, the perfect squad, formation, tactics, substitutions etc and we might, in my eyes, play some good football for which I'd heap on the praise... but what if it isn't getting results? Do I still praise him?

Conversely, he might, in my eyes, play some god-awful formations, tactics, subs etc and we might, in my eyes, play some ugly, horrible football for which I'd be ready to criticise him... but what if it gets results? Do I still criticise him?

Football is all about results and if Holloway is leading the team into getting these results then he'll be praised.

As long as this club is rebuilt from the foundations and everyone pulls in the same direction - eventual promotion - I'll settle for that.

But surely keeping a manager who has a proven track record of failure should be part of this rebuilding? What's the point in laying foundations when they're built upon a bedrock of incompetence? How can everyone pull in the same direction when the manager doesn't know which way to go and has no answers when asked for alternative directions?

[renards]

It wasn't coming on the field either - quite a feat considering we had TWO promotion-winning captains in the side.

How many players (except perhaps for Henderson) actually improved in the last six months of the season?

Stearman?

The rest became park players

Edit. Bad park players

[Jonezy]

Well this seems to be the worst situation possible.

We now have a manager effectively in limbo until this meeting of directors who will then discuss exactly what will happen.

So first up when is that meeting?

Secondly we now have players in limbo who at the moment don't know exactly who the manager will be. This will effect their decisions on whethr to stay or leave.

This is a right royal mess that well sums up our club.

We have a Manager who doesn't know whether he is coming or going, we have players who don't know who the manager will be, we have fans considering renewing season tickets not knowig who will manage the club next season. The rebuilding needs to start now but this non decision merely delays things. Let's hope this director meeting is this week and that by the end of the month we know where we are in terms of manager/backroom staff.

And that's why we've been England's Laugh for the past few years and that's one (if not THE) reason why we've failed so miserably this season.

Communication & Decisions. It's all about it. On & off the pitch.

I couldn't have put it better myself.

[AyewJoking]

So Dowie told us to fúck off?

[Simi]

Anyone who says they were'nt at least partially excited about Oakley and Howard is a liar. The 2 fulcrums of Derbys promotion winning team.

Liars.

I've said it so many times on here, it's ridiculous. People just sitting here slagging him off for shit signings. All well and good when you have the chance to comment at the end of the season!

I do agree that there may be a problem motivating the players, you can see some of them clearly are not up for it. Perhaps with the exception of Stearman - not many players have shown an improvment. Which is worrying. However, it's not something that only Holloway has had a problem with, but at the same time, it's one he needs to solve. Quickly.

[The People's Hero]

Oakley should go back to making (sh it) sunglasses.

[Koke]

I agree with Raj though, why do experienced senior pro players need motivation. I can understand the young'uns who needs a word or two just to fire them up, but Howard? And Oakley? Please...

That's why all this ''It's all Ollie's fault because he can't motivate them" stuff is a load of bollocks.

[Eastern Fox]

I agree with Raj though, why do experienced senior pro players need motivation.

Because for someone like Howard, the mere privilege of playing at Leicester City Football Club isn't enough for him to put his heart and soul into every performance. Of course experienced players benefit from effective man-management and motivation: that's what most of Sam Alladyce's success at Bolton was about after all.

[Chimp]

I agree with Raj though, why do experienced senior pro players need motivation. I can understand the young'uns who needs a word or two just to fire them up, but Howard? And Oakley? Please...

Eh? If anything it would be the other way around, surely. I can quite easily see how a senior player would become jaded, especially if they're coming to the end of their career and have nothing to prove. Conversley, I'd have thought the younger players would have much more motivation to prove themselves, make a name for themselves, because their footballing future is ahead of them.

Moreover, if you look at individual performances across the season I think you'll see those players who are rated highest in our current squad are from the younger age bracket.

That's why all this ''It's all Ollie's fault because he can't motivate them" stuff is a load of bollocks.

It's not bollocks at all. Part of the managers job is to develop the players mentally as well as physically. Nurturing a winning mindset, instilling confidence, building teamwork, developing a never say die spirit, getting the players to accept collective responsibility, getting them to play for the badge etc etc etc... it's all part of the managers remit.

[dandannieldanok]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...ity/7398931.stm

Oh, we all thought it would be a bed of roses Ian

[FOX.FAN.LOST.IN.EMOTION]

********************HOLLOWAY STAYING**********************************

THATS IT FOR ME 25 YEARS AS A LCFC FAN AND THIS IS THE LOWEST POINT EVER! SH1T MANAGER, SH1T TACTICS, SH1T MOTIVATION AND HE DOESNT GET THE SACK......................... I AM GOB SMACKED. THIS IS DISGUSTING, I AM SURE MILAN HAS SOME HIDDEN AGENDA, NOT HAPPY!

I WOULD RATHER SWALLOW THE CUM OF A 1000 FOREST FANS THEN HAVE THIS IDIOT IN CHARGE!

WELL DONE MILAN !!! YOU MUST BE ON SOME CRACK!

NOT HAPPY! LEICESTER TILL I DIE OR MAYBE NOW ITS LEICESTER TILL MY FAITH GETS PI33ED ON BY A SH1T MANAGER AND A CHAIRMAN WHO JUST SIMPLY HAS LOST THE PLOT

[Jonezy]

********************HOLLOWAY STAYING**********************************

THATS IT FOR ME 25 YEARS AS A LCFC FAN AND THIS IS THE LOWEST POINT EVER! SH1T MANAGER, SH1T TACTICS, SH1T MOTIVATION AND HE DOESNT GET THE SACK......................... I AM GOB SMACKED. THIS IS DISGUSTING, I AM SURE MILAN HAS SOME HIDDEN AGENDA, NOT HAPPY!

I WOULD RATHER SWALLOW THE CUM OF A 1000 FOREST FANS THEN HAVE THIS IDIOT IN CHARGE!

WELL DONE MILAN !!! YOU MUST BE ON SOME CRACK!

NOT HAPPY! LEICESTER TILL I DIE OR MAYBE NOW ITS LEICESTER TILL MY FAITH GETS PI33ED ON BY A SH1T MANAGER AND A CHAIRMAN WHO JUST SIMPLY HAS LOST THE PLOT

Feel better now....?

[The Reverend]

********************HOLLOWAY STAYING**********************************

THATS IT FOR ME 25 YEARS AS A LCFC FAN AND THIS IS THE LOWEST POINT EVER! SH1T MANAGER, SH1T TACTICS, SH1T MOTIVATION AND HE DOESNT GET THE SACK......................... I AM GOB SMACKED. THIS IS DISGUSTING, I AM SURE MILAN HAS SOME HIDDEN AGENDA, NOT HAPPY!

I WOULD RATHER SWALLOW THE CUM OF A 1000 FOREST FANS THEN HAVE THIS IDIOT IN CHARGE!

WELL DONE MILAN !!! YOU MUST BE ON SOME CRACK!

NOT HAPPY! LEICESTER TILL I DIE OR MAYBE NOW ITS LEICESTER TILL MY FAITH GETS PI33ED ON BY A SH1T MANAGER AND A CHAIRMAN WHO JUST SIMPLY HAS LOST THE PLOT

Well fcking well go on then you tart!

[Thracian]

I'm more gutted at the moment than I was after the final whistle last Sunday. I was all prepared to support the club through this season and go to as many games as I could but now...I'm not so sure that I can. I don't know if I can bring myself to go and support the man who has destroyed the club and who should be looking for a new job by now. In short...devastated.

That's exactly how I feel. In well over 100 years managers have gone through a good few close things and scrambles. Many got sacked along the way for getting us relegated or for overseeing football below the standards we set outselves. Holloway has managed both and become the first person to escort us into the deep dungeon of Division One with the sort of money some could only have dreamed of.

Now I'm faced with the most uncomfortable choice. I make my money available to help pay indecent wages Holloway's never earned and doesn't deserve and to help fund a club which is run by a foreign main-chancer who doesn't seem to give a shit for anyone's opinion but his own. Or I stop being a supporter and do something else.

As I said at the time Mandaric took over. It's no longer my club or our club, it's his club, to do with as he chooses.

I'm not even sure we'll have a reserves team next season, there's some talk that we'll be back to friendlies and I've started to think there's so little point in the Academy if we're managed by people who prefer loanees to our own committed and capable youngsters.

Although born and bred in Leicester and a person who trained at the club and went to school barely a mile from the club, I've long started to wonder if Leicester City any longer represents anything I believe in, least of all the prospect of proper football being played and by people who have signed for and are properly committed to playing here.

Can you imagine Manchester United turning out with a team half-full of loanees, one game wonders or misfits?

Mandaric and Holloway deserve each other but I have no intentions of funding them. I'd rather support Hinckley til one or the other and preferably both are gone.

[Corky]

That's exactly how I feel. In well over 100 years managers have gone through a good few close things and scrambles. Many got sacked along the way for getting us relegated or for overseeing football below the standards we set outselves. Holloway has managed both and become the first person to escort us into the deep dungeon of Division One with the sort of money some could only have dreamed of.

Now I'm faced with the most uncomfortable choice. I make my money available to help pay indecent wages Holloway's never earned and doesn't deserve and to help fund a club which is run by a foreign main-chancer who doesn't seem to give a shit for anyone's opinion but his own. Or I stop being a supporter and do something else.

As I said at the time Mandaric took over. It's no longer my club or our club, it's his club. to do with as he chooses.

I'm not even sure we'll have a reserves team next season, there's some talk that we'll be back to friendlies and I've started to think there's so little point in the Academy if we're managed by people who prefer loanees to our own committed and capable youngsters.

Although born and bred in Leicester and someone and a person who trained at the club and went to school barely a mile from the club, I've long started to wonder if Leicester City any longer represents anything I believe in, least of all the prospect of football being played by people who have signed for and are properly committed to playing here.

Can you imagine Manchester United turning out with a team half-full of loanees, one game wonders or misfits?

Mandaric and Holloway deserve each other but I have no intentions of funding them. I'd rather support Hinckley til one or the other and preferably both are gone.

It really has become a sad situation when even you Thrac are giving up and not going anymore. I don't think this decision is final though, Mandaric has not publicly said Holloway is definetely staying. I don't agree with the decision to keep him if he stays, I hope I'm proved wrong, but I've seen nothing so far to suggest Holloway can get us out of League 1 in the right direction. We shall have to wait and see though.

[Thracian]

It really has become a sad situation when even you Thrac are giving up and not going anymore. I don't think this decision is final though, Mandaric has not publicly said Holloway is definetely staying. I don't agree with the decision to keep him if he stays, I hope I'm proved wrong, but I've seen nothing so far to suggest Holloway can get us out of League 1 in the right direction. We shall have to wait and see though.

Sad? Approaching what would have been my 51st season as a fan I feel devastated. But I blew around £50,000 on a matter of principle recently, and haven't regretted the decision for a minute, so I guess I'll cope.

[Thracian]

So Dowie told us to fúck off?

That's what almost everyone I've spoken to on the subject seems to think!

[Thracian]

Allegedly not a happy bunny with the way we have treated him and also there are clubs in a higher division that want him.

Gradel has a family he's responsible for now and had signed for a club that was in Division One, and paying Division One wages.

He then has to watch that club being relegated, totally unable to help, while every Tom, Dick and Harry is signed or loaned to take his place and do half the job he could.

How he'll have loved that.

And I doubt he'll be the only one.

It's really is time people realised the potential consequences of our relegation and our keeping Holloway and made their feelings known. But I don't suppose it will happen.

[clazkel]

It really has become a sad situation when even you Thrac are giving up and not going anymore. I don't think this decision is final though, Mandaric has not publicly said Holloway is definetely staying. I don't agree with the decision to keep him if he stays, I hope I'm proved wrong, but I've seen nothing so far to suggest Holloway can get us out of League 1 in the right direction. We shall have to wait and see though.

I think Mandaric has got another plan, as apparently McClaren was at the ground yesterday, maybe McClaren will become director of football or something and will give Holloway some advice, and if Holloway doesn't start very well next season he will be out and McClaren will be there to take over, or maybe he McClaren will be manager and Holloway his assistant. I think Mandaric will have a plan incase it doesn't work out with Holloway, as it will be unfair on the players to get rid of a manager 10 or so games into a season if it doesn't go well, but if he has someone else in ready to take over i suppose it makes sense. I would prefer someone with passion for Leicester to get the job. Holloway is a decent bloke and i hope he turns things around but his tactics really worry me!

[Chimp]

I think Mandaric has got another plan, as apparently McClaren was at the ground yesterday, maybe McClaren will become director of football or something and will give Holloway some advice, and if Holloway doesn't start very well next season he will be out and McClaren will be there to take over, or maybe he McClaren will be manager and Holloway his assistant. I think Mandaric will have a plan incase it doesn't work out with Holloway, as it will be unfair on the players to get rid of a manager 10 or so games into a season if it doesn't go well, but if he has someone else in ready to take over i suppose it makes sense. I would prefer someone with passion for Leicester to get the job. Holloway is a decent bloke and i hope he turns things around but his tactics really worry me!

I think this explains why McClaren has been at the Walkers Stadium recently, not anything to do with taking a permanent position at Leicester....

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/foo...icle3912989.ece

[renards]

Refreshing to read posts that sum up how I feel.

I am devestated that it appears the clown will be staying.

I can't support the club whilst he is here, I don't subscribe to it being the club not the manager. He heads the visable/playing side.

He will be sacked, why wait and ruin my summer and the first 5 games?

Peoples lifes revolve around the club not just 90 mins a week.

What I also find depressing is the amount of fans who think its a good idea to keep him, the worlds gone mad.

Ollies Army!

[iancognito]

Then you're not looking hard enough, or, not willing to consider alternatives. There are plenty of example where changing manager has brought success, Ultra has mentioned several already. A prime example would be Forest or Palace.

I'll consider alternatives, I didn't say there weren't any, I'm saying they were fewer. You name Palace and Forest but those are two from dozens of changes over the season.

Either way, there's no guarantees. I'm not saying bringing in a new manager will guarantee success, just that you are wrong in stating that all clubs who 'chopped and changed' managers have failed.

Did I say all? If I did, I didn't mean to or to suggest it. As above, the majority of the time it ends in failure, not always, just mostly.

It wasn't just a 'mistake', it was a persistent failing that he seemed unwilling to learn by.

For about four years, I said "Steve Guppy, is there a cure?" he was MON's persistent failing in my eyes. All managers have faults, we'd all do things differently. Suggesting that he should have done something differently, is one of those 'what if..." things that no-one can ever be sure about.

Surely you're not thinking that that one penalty miss is to blame for where we are now?

No. Not to blame but had that have gone in, it would have given that game a wholly different complexion and would have been a long way to giving us the point we needed. Same with the Stoke game hitting the post.

No, I did not say in the 'majority' of cases, I said there are 'many' examples where it did work. Stop twisting my words.

Touche.

Also, I'm saying that it's better to bring a new manager in during the early summer rather than 15 games or so into the season. Why keep a manager who who don't have 100% faith in? Why 'give him 10-15 games' or so to prove himself? Surely it's better to appoint someone early who you have faith in and then stick with them. That's what brings stability.

And if Davies/Dowie/Big Fat Ron are pants after 10-15 games do we sack them instead of risking the season? Maybe Milan has faith in Holloway and is sticking with him as you are reccomending?

How else are we to judge him but on results? He might very well play, in my eyes, the perfect squad, formation, tactics, substitutions etc and we might, in my eyes, play some good football for which I'd heap on the praise... but what if it isn't getting results? Do I still praise him? Conversely, he might, in my eyes, play some god-awful formations, tactics, subs etc and we might, in my eyes, play some ugly, horrible football for which I'd be ready to criticise him... but what if it gets results? Do I still criticise him?

I don't give a flying toss how we get out of this division. If we hit 70 yard hoofs up to the front men, kick lumps out of classy midfielders and have a worse disciplinary record than Reggie Kray, fine, so long as we win. Believe me, if those first dozen games don't produce at least 25 points, I'll be shouting "Sack the cu^t" louder than anyone.

But surely keeping a manager who has a proven track record of failure should be part of this rebuilding? What's the point in laying foundations when they're built upon a bedrock of incompetence? How can everyone pull in the same direction when the manager doesn't know which way to go and has no answers when asked for alternative directions?

Ignore his record last year. If Holloway was being appointed tomorrow, could you think of anyone better in getting out of this division. 3 play off finishes in this league suggests he knows the way to get through it.

We're never going to agree Chimp so we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Chimp]

Ignore his record last year. If Holloway was being appointed tomorrow, could you think of anyone better in getting out of this division. 3 play off finishes in this league suggests he knows the way to get through it.

Don't you think you're being a bit contradictory there? Ignore what he did last year, but remember what he did several years ago?

Maybe Holloway was a good manager, under different circumstances, a few years ago. If so, then he's unfortunately not shown much sign of it this season.

With the mass exodus of players that we're going to witness over the summer, and assuming Holloway is staying, then he'll have a clean slate to work with. A whole new team to build. Maybe this is what he needs? Maybe this will be the key to his success? Who knows. I certainly hope so because, at the end of the day, I don't care who manages LCFC as long as he gets results.

We're never going to agree Chimp so we'll have to agree to disagree.

I guess.

[TrickyTrev]

Oh for Steve Guppy to be our biggest problem!