sbfox Posted 27 August 2010 Posted 27 August 2010 After reading all the pages of this, i have to say im pretty confident sbfox works for LCFC in some capacity. If not then he is more than likely one of the 22 who don't want noise at a football ground. Your arguement sbfox about if this is about standing or the noise is irrelevant. Fosse Boys had an agreement/arrangement in place for 4 or so games. Now after 1 game, the club has gone against this. For either the noise/standing or both. Doesn't matter. the club has still gone against its agreement either way. Which is disgraceful. 'Nuff said. There are PLENTY of sections in the ground that are aloud to stand. I wont bother to name all of them. The KOP has and always has been rubbish at the Walkers Stadium. Its the home end for fricks sake and its the quietest! How does that work exactly? The walkers stadium is ment to be a FORTRESS! Its more like a frickin LIBRARY! Even bigger than the Pork Pie Roundabout LIBRARY! We may aswell rename the stadium, if you can call it that. Believe what you want about me, but I don't even live in Leicester anymore and have to travel a fairly long way to even get to home games, not connected to the club at all. The Fosse Boys didn't have an agreement about them being allowed to stand freely either, so that's rubbish - the club have gone back on nothing. Also, there are hardly 'loads' of standing areas around the ground. I can think of L, half of K and the back few rows of the Kop. At most.
Houdini Logic Posted 27 August 2010 Posted 27 August 2010 But he more i've read what was supposedly said, the more the complaints side of it seemed tagged onto the end of the "don't do what you did against boro". Ie. Standing. Rather than being the clubs main point. Yes but it's obvious now that the club are unhappy, so the suggestion is that the FBs stay well within the clubs rules (forget the double standard argument for now) and sit on their seats but also sing their hearts out and not be moved. The 22 will still complain, the club will still be unhappy, but there's nothing they can do about it (technically they can, but that would be suicide)
Mike the Metal Ed Posted 27 August 2010 Posted 27 August 2010 The event of Hillsborough and the over-crowded, poorly policised terraces at the time have perfect evidence for why fans should be seated. The two central pens were full, and officers didn't locate supporters to the other two, which were nearly empty, but that's for another thread.
Babylon Posted 27 August 2010 Posted 27 August 2010 Yes but it's obvious now that the club are unhappy, so the suggestion is that the FBs stay well within the clubs rules (forget the double standard argument for now) and sit on their seats but also sing their hearts out and not be moved. The 22 will still complain, the club will still be unhappy, but there's nothing they can do about it (technically they can, but that would be suicide) Yup, would be my suggestion... as I have said a few times, lose the battle to win the war.
lcfcadam Posted 27 August 2010 Posted 27 August 2010 The event of Hillsborough and the over-crowded, poorly policised terraces at the time have perfect evidence for why fans should be seated. Complete and utter garbage. One significant tragedy in hundreds of thousands of league and cup matches over more than 100 years does not constitute "evidence" that "fans should be seated".
Ilkeston_Fox Posted 27 August 2010 Posted 27 August 2010 Yes but it's obvious now that the club are unhappy, so the suggestion is that the FBs stay well within the clubs rules (forget the double standard argument for now) and sit on their seats but also sing their hearts out and not be moved. The 22 will still complain, the club will still be unhappy, but there's nothing they can do about it (technically they can, but that would be suicide) Spot on. Although the double standards does grind my gears, I feel we should fight one battle at a time. I think first and foremost we should just turn up in as many numbers as possible. Stand for portions of the game (when the relevant songs are being aired) and sit down for the rest, yet still supporting the team for the full 90 mins. This way as Houdini says, they can't do feck all.
Ilkeston_Fox Posted 27 August 2010 Posted 27 August 2010 Not sure if this had been posted here yet. Apologies if it has... http://www.thebluearmy.co.uk/bevanblog/Let-Fosse-Boys-say/article-2577885-detail/article.html
CosbehFox Posted 27 August 2010 Posted 27 August 2010 The two central pens were full, and officers didn't locate supporters to the other two, which were nearly empty, but that's for another thread. That's what I mean by poorly policied (woeful spelling from myself). Complete and utter garbage. One significant tragedy in hundreds of thousands of league and cup matches over more than 100 years does not constitute "evidence" that "fans should be seated". I said 'at the time'. Read/listen to fans who returned from watching their own team play on the Saturday afternoon of Hillsborough - they came and felt like crap. Most football supporters from that era will admit there were in situations of terraces full to the brim and there was a little bit of fear in them when it got scary or came back with bruises all along their sides. It was evidence at the time for fans to be seated. However, since then technology has moved on; there are superb systems which are used in Germany which do a super job in controlling crowd numbers.
Ilkeston_Fox Posted 27 August 2010 Posted 27 August 2010 Could be interesting...Good idea from Bentleys MuzzysMissingearring Posted on 27/08/2010 12:59 Fosse Boys Silenced Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- With the Sky cameras being there you could really put your plight in the shop window, a national one in fact. Surely a word with the producer and director in the Sky wagon outside the ground wouldnt go amiss. They in turn would inform the match commentators of whats going on and if Barclay and co do try and clamp down on your style of support... hey presto! national coverage. And believe me, the club wouldnt like that!
easilee Posted 27 August 2010 Posted 27 August 2010 WTF! I don't log on for a coupla days and all kind of sh|t has kicked off. Anyway e-mail of disapproval sent. Barclay out! Coont!
bettso Posted 27 August 2010 Posted 27 August 2010 Having just read throught the numerous posts in this thread, i'd like to comment. What started out as a simple idea, where a group of fans wanted to improve the atmosphere has gradually progressed. You have your own badge, chants and seating arrangements. The Fosse Boys have been in communication with the club regarding their intentions, and initially both parites seemed amicable in the arrangement. However, the problem is that it really doesnt matter what was agreed between the FB and the club. If anyone in the vacinity of the Fosse Boys has actually complained about ANYTHING the FB are doing, then the club would have to act. I can tell you catagorically that there is no LEGAL way that the club can eject any fan for singing unless there is racist, sexist or facist content within your chants. They can however eject you if you are continuosly standing despite being asked by safety stewards not to do so. Now whether this is fair or not because other fans around the stadium are left to stand is beside the point. What you (The Fosse Boys) need to decide, is whether you wish to become embroiled in a battle that you just cannot win. If the club were to turn a blind eye to any 'complaint' about you standing, all it would need is for one fan to make an official complaint to the FA. If this were to happen, there would be no doubt that the club are in direct contravention of the Taylor Report that banned standing in the first place. The result of this? A sizeable fine, regular inspection and if persistant flouting of the rules continue, a points deduction and in the most extreme scenario, expulsion from the Football League. I have had dealings with Kevin Barclay in the past and there is no doubt that he has a broom somewhere up his rectum, but if a complaint has been lodged he really doesnt have any choice. Now, the FB can if they wish, complain themselves about the other sections of fans that stand throughout the game and insist that the club tackle this problem to the letter of the law and eject all those fans who stand. This however would completely go against the original ethos of the Fosse Boys which was (and correct me if i'm wrong), to improve the atmosphere at the Walkers Stadium. I would ask the Fosse Boys as a group to re-visit the original idea of improving the atmosphere at the Walkers Stadium and answer one very simple question. Can this be achieved without standing up? If the answer is yes, swallow your pride (and nobody would think you have lost face or have 'backed down') and sit down but continue with your chants and make as much noise as you possibly can. If the answer is no, perhaps your motivation in the first instance wasn't as important as you perhaps made out but rather you were just looking to re-live a previous period that has passed and shows no signs of returning. Either way you need to make a decision. Are you going to play the persecuted victim? Or are you going to look at the wider picture? Whichever you choose, I wish you good luck. It is a superb idea and one that I truly hope succeeds. Leicester till I die.
stripeyfox Posted 27 August 2010 Posted 27 August 2010 Without wanting to stray to much into the Hillsborough debate, the crush occoured mainly because of the police's failure to control the crowd (which was swelled by large numbers of fans without tickets) outside the ground. For those old enough to remember, the 1988 FA Cup semi final was contested between the same teams at Hillsborough as in 1989 and passed off without incident - in 1988 a police cordon was in force in the surrounding streets where you had to show your ticket to gain access to the area around the stadium (I have seen a similar method used at Filbert Street). Once the situation was out of control outside the police probably had little choice but to open the exit gates. It is only at this point that the stadium's antiquated layout and poor signage became a contributing factor in the deaths of the 96. Having said that, it was almost inevitable that something like this would happen one day given the poor state of repair of stadiums all over the place (Bradford 1985, Brussells 1985) for example. I think the point is that standing up is not in itself inherently dangerous provided the crowd is adequately policed.
Houdini Logic Posted 27 August 2010 Posted 27 August 2010 Could be interesting...Good idea from Bentleys MuzzysMissingearring Posted on 27/08/2010 12:59 Fosse Boys Silenced Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- With the Sky cameras being there you could really put your plight in the shop window, a national one in fact. Surely a word with the producer and director in the Sky wagon outside the ground wouldnt go amiss. They in turn would inform the match commentators of whats going on and if Barclay and co do try and clamp down on your style of support... hey presto! national coverage. And believe me, the club wouldnt like that! This would work even better if you download, print and cut out a 'Shushing Hand'...
Bellend Sebastian Posted 27 August 2010 Posted 27 August 2010 Many thanks to Bettso for saving me the effort of typing something very similar when I'm supposed to be working, thereby making me feel guilty and working late on a Friday as a result, as per usual. This is, to my mind, the reality of the situation. I posted a while back about the need for people to use a bit of imagination and to concentrate on what you CAN do rather than this head banging against the wall obsession with being allowed/not allowed to stand, because any initiative on the part of fans that relies on standing is more than likely going to have the plug pulled on it by the club sooner or later. As an aside, I think the club's position on standing is actually pretty generous. I was in L1 in the first season at the Walkers when hardly anybody stood in there at all, but with each successive season more standers came into the section which displaced quite a few people, some of whom made quite a fuss about it. The only action the club ever took was that ham fisted letter that I think they managed to send to everyone in the section, identifying them as 'persistent standers' and threatening them with ejection when a lot of them were seated throughout. I presume that they tolerate the current situation because it's relatively localised and just don't want the hassle of clamping down on it, but there comes a point when they'll say that things are getting out of hand and draw a line - for example, when a group tries to get a standing group going in another part of the ground
MeatyLCFC Posted 27 August 2010 Posted 27 August 2010 2 options youve basically got: 1. you can go reading and do the sme as boro, stewards might have a go but youll props have the backing of the kop etc... tht is the really risky option 2. like someone said, sit dwn but make as much noise as possible with as many people you can get, next year move over to L1 or K block then hopefully you wont get bothered and also youve got all this season to promote it and nxt summer if it all goes to plan youll have to sme numbers as L1 go on the other side of the away fans (family stand corner) then bob's ya uncle you wont get bothered hopefully! you can have banter with L1 in a joke way and also the away fans make the walkers a immidating place to come! then the old filbert street atmosphere we no will be back in town! LCFC till i die! its just a idea so get on me for this!
AoWW Posted 27 August 2010 Posted 27 August 2010 2 options youve basically got: 1. you can go reading and do the sme as boro, stewards might have a go but youll props have the backing of the kop etc... tht is the really risky option 2. like someone said, sit dwn but make as much noise as possible with as many people you can get, next year move over to L1 or K block then hopefully you wont get bothered and also youve got all this season to promote it and nxt summer if it all goes to plan youll have to sme numbers as L1 go on the other side of the away fans (family stand corner) then bob's ya uncle you wont get bothered hopefully! you can have banter with L1 in a joke way and also the away fans make the walkers a immidating place to come! then the old filbert street atmosphere we no will be back in town! LCFC till i die! its just a idea so get on me for this! If you think the club would tolerate them in the family stand then you're living in cloud cuckoo land! 'won't get bothered hopefully!' hmmmm And please stop using txt spk. Check the forum guidelines.
Ilkeston_Fox Posted 27 August 2010 Posted 27 August 2010 2 options youve basically got: 1. you can go reading and do the sme as boro, stewards might have a go but youll props have the backing of the kop etc... tht is the really risky option 2. like someone said, sit dwn but make as much noise as possible with as many people you can get, next year move over to L1 or K block then hopefully you wont get bothered and also youve got all this season to promote it and nxt summer if it all goes to plan youll have to sme numbers as L1 go on the other side of the away fans (family stand corner) then bob's ya uncle you wont get bothered hopefully! you can have banter with L1 in a joke way and also the away fans make the walkers a immidating place to come! then the old filbert street atmosphere we no will be back in town! LCFC till i die! its just a idea so get on me for this! The problem with this is that some (NOT ALL) of the people who stand in L1 are ignorant to the Fosse Boys. We saw some of this when we went to Palace. Not to mention that we'd be hard pressed to get seats together in L1. It's a ST only area, and people will just renew their ST come the end of the season. Many of us already have a ST in L1 (myself included) but we are scattered across it.
Walkers Wench Posted 27 August 2010 Posted 27 August 2010 You can always come and sit next to me....SK4 If i could hear you from there i would happily stand and sing with you, in fact my sons stand up to catch sight of you! Email sent x
Bakey Posted 27 August 2010 Posted 27 August 2010 You can always come and sit next to me....SK4 If i could hear you from there i would happily stand and sing with you, in fact my sons stand up to catch sight of you! Email sent x Or you could get your tickets moved to the corner of SK1 and join us?
tomtom Posted 27 August 2010 Posted 27 August 2010 Can't believe i'm missing the game on saturday, I might be in reading watching those naughty little Libertine boys but i'll be with you in spirit ! Good luck to everyone involved,make us proud again and i'll come join you all for the following home game Viva Fosse Boys
leftsideoverhere Posted 27 August 2010 Posted 27 August 2010 Without wanting to stray to much into the Hillsborough debate, the crush occoured mainly because of the police's failure to control the crowd (which was swelled by large numbers of fans without tickets) outside the ground. For those old enough to remember, the 1988 FA Cup semi final was contested between the same teams at Hillsborough as in 1989 and passed off without incident - in 1988 a police cordon was in force in the surrounding streets where you had to show your ticket to gain access to the area around the stadium (I have seen a similar method used at Filbert Street). Once the situation was out of control outside the police probably had little choice but to open the exit gates. It is only at this point that the stadium's antiquated layout and poor signage became a contributing factor in the deaths of the 96. Really don't want to drag this thread off into another Hillsborough argument, but the independent inquiry into Hillsborough discounted the idea that there were large numbers of fans without tickets. There was no evidence to support this claim made by the police and officials at the time to shift blame back onto supporters. Likewise I am pretty sure I've read several times that Liverpool did in fact make complaints the previous year about the signage and crowd control measures at Hillsborough for the FA Cup final, but that nothing was done to improve the situation before the disaster the following year. The inquiry also found that the dangerous conditions existed prior to the opening of the exit gates.
leftsideoverhere Posted 27 August 2010 Posted 27 August 2010 I would ask the Fosse Boys as a group to re-visit the original idea of improving the atmosphere at the Walkers Stadium and answer one very simple question. Can this be achieved without standing up? If the answer is yes, swallow your pride (and nobody would think you have lost face or have 'backed down') and sit down but continue with your chants and make as much noise as you possibly can. If the answer is no, perhaps your motivation in the first instance wasn't as important as you perhaps made out but rather you were just looking to re-live a previous period that has passed and shows no signs of returning. Either way you need to make a decision. Are you going to play the persecuted victim? Or are you going to look at the wider picture? Whichever you choose, I wish you good luck. It is a superb idea and one that I truly hope succeeds. Leicester till I die. I get where you're coming from, but to be fair to the Fosse Boys, they've always been clear that they're not just on about "improving the atmosphere" at the Walkers, they have set out to do that in a very specific way, modelled on the 'Ultras' of continental Europe. It isn't simply therefore a matter of them swallowing their pride and improving the atmosphere from a seated position. If you're suggesting, and it sounds like you are, that they have to accept a long-term prohibition on standing in the area of the stadium the club agreed with them would be suitable, then I think you're actually asking them to give up on the ambition of a Leicester Ultras group, and instead to become simply a 'singing section' of an otherwise docile crowd. I can understand why many involved in the Fosse Boys would find that hard to do. I'd approach it from a slightly different angle, which one or two other people have already written, along the lines of 'losing a battle to win the war'. Sitting down for some sections of the game tomorrow, whilst still being as visible and as loud as possible, would cut ground away from under the club's miserableness, and further promote the Fosse Boys to the kopites and the rest of the crowd. Swelling their numbers whilst ducking direct confrontation with the club might well enable them to reach the point where, like L block, they are a big enough group to give the stewards second thoughts about trying to make them sit down.
evs_the_fox Posted 27 August 2010 Posted 27 August 2010 Just emailed a message of support. Got a bit wordy but hey, it was nice getting some stuff off my chest! Hope it helps. If you're interested, I've pasted it below... It's with utter disbelief that I find myself even having the need to put this email together. However; it appears that between an apparent 22 Leicester 'fans' and some of the clueless muppets that run our club there are issues being raised about a group of supporters that want to congegrate in the stadium together, sing songs together, and generally get behind the team as best they can for 90 minutes every other Saturday afternoon, Tuesday night or third phase of a Blue Moon, depending on the SKY cameras. In the 8 years we have been in the new stadium, the atmosphere has rarely gotten above tepid and the old Kop of Filbert Street has well and truly been consigned to history. Its former incumbants are either finding other things to do between August and May or simply sit in different areas of the ground thus leaving a rather quiet and soulless SK1, 2 and 3. Having put in a lot of groundwork, there is now a hardcore group of supporters that will travel home and away together, every week, to watch the team they love play and support them as vociferously as possible whilst they're at it. They abuse nobody, they threaten nobody. They simply generate noise, atmosphere and support for the eleven players in royal blue out there on the pitch. If this is a problem for the 22 complainees then it should be them made to move to a more suitable area of the ground (outside maybe?). The more vocal supporters should be left well alone, especially in the area of the ground YOUR staff have designated as the main base for home support. I was a Season Ticket holder for 5 or 6 years between 1999 and 2005. I stopped for various reasons but be under no illusions that the main factors were a combination of mind-numbing football and spending 90 minutes in a sterile, soulless environment every other weekend. The lads and lasses that make up the Fosse Boys should be commended, supported and applauded for trying (mainly in vain it seems) to make the match day 'experience' something more than it has been for the best part of a decade. I have no affiliation to anyone within the Fosse Boys. I have never met, nor spoken to a single one of them but I believe in what they're doing and can see nothing but good in it - for supporters and for the club. If you move or worse, eject them over the coming weeks then you'll be committing a huge PR faux pas. More fans like me will go away and maybe stay away completely. I still attend 5-10 games a season (combined home and away) but the more issues like this that arise, the more I cut down the number of games I go to - especially at home. When I go to a game I want excitement, passion and atmosphere and you appear to be doing your utmost to quash anything that remotely resembles that down on Filbert Way. I'd urge you to reconsider your outlook before you lose even more of your loyal 'customers'.
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