The "do they mean us?" thread

[Al-aLondon-Foxile]

,

Edited 7 August 2015 by Al-aLondon-Foxile

[Jordan]

From Deadspin's Screamer sub-site:

Leicester were very nearly the heart-warming story of the season coming into this year. They spent almost the entirety of last year rock bottom in the table with a nutty, confrontational manager who came very close to being fired multiple times. Yet in the final weeks of the season, Leicester managed to win seven of their last nine matches, spring-boarding out of the bottom and into safety in one of the best runs you’ll ever see.

But then that controversial manager’s son and some other players went to Thailand, the native home of the club’s owners, banged some hookers in degrading fashion, filmed it, and saw the footage leaked to the world. Those players were swiftly cut from the team, and in what everyone suspects was in some way related to his son’s incident, manager Nigel Pearson left the club in the summer. Leicester are no longer quite the feel-good story they could’ve been.

None of that should sully the performance of the team that remains, though. In place of Pearson is Claudio Ranieri, former manager of Chelsea, Juventus, Inter, and half the rest of Serie A. Ranieri has a bit of a bad rap in English circles—what with their belief that nothing that happens outside the Premier League really counts and his allegedly disappointing stretch with Chelsea in the early aughts—but that should make you pull for him more. He has proven pretty much everywhere he’s been to be a smart coach who knows how to build a team, with an admitted tendency to futz with things when he least needed it—think the Italian Andy Reid if Reid had the reputation of Norv Turner.

Ranieri has said he’ll rely largely on the team and style that got the club out of the relegation zone last season, which is competent but not much to write home about. Jamie Vardy was the biggest surprise of last year, parlaying his goals and work-rate into an England cap.

The team lost old man Esteban Cambiasso, who despite his old man status was still the fulcrum of the team’s play from his deep midfield position. However, they are trying to fill the Argentine’s shoes with players like Charles Aránguiz, a flat out stud of an attacking mid, and Gökhan Inler, a really good defensive midfielder for Napoli. These are the examples of that new EPL money; should they nab two players of that quality from two of the biggest teams in Turkey and Italy, they’ll prove their determination to make something of themselves in the Premier League while also showing how new of a world this really is.

http://screamer.deadspin.com/starting-from-the-bottom-our-2015-16-premier-league-pr-1722476507

If you're an NFL fan, you might find the Ranieri/Turner/Reid analogy apt and fitting. But as for the last graph, City will only be looking to sign one of the two, and would do well to even get one of them.

[Babylon]

No, my opinion that differs to your own, is that firstly Ranieri has not inherited a team composed solely of 'Nigel Pearson's transfer targets'; secondly, they are not 'Nigel Pearson's players' they are Leicester City's and finally that the set up, selections and tactics for the final nine games of the season were not solely down to the manager as many seem to believe. If my views are as you say baseless, then really, they shouldn't be of any consequence to you.

 

 

Again you yourself make these assumptions. I apologise if that's the perception, it's certainly not a conscious 'attempt at intellectualising posts' or meant to rub anyone the wrong way, It's honestly not contrived - sorry if you think that it is. I'll heed your advice though. My main concern is that the a,s and d key's aren't working properly on my Mac and I have to keep editing posts, otherwise they'd be even more meaningless than you claim they already are.

 

I have tried to remain oblivious to the jibes directed at NP over the last 7 years. I certainly don't believe that he is 'responsible for all our failings but never for our successes'- and made the point that the club is indebted to his contribution, although in respect of comparing the championship and the premiership...

 

No, it isn't. I'm sorry I disagree. It's an entirely different level and the tactics, the pace, the politics, the stakes, the pressure the scrutiny is utterly unforgiving.

 

 

Again, I really do apologise if you think that but it honestly wasn't the intent and I appreciate your reply. Ok, I admit, I am in fact David Mellor.

 

I agree, there are ways of airing an opinion just as there are ways of countering one that you don't necessarily agree with. 

 

Thanks for that. I'll be there at two tomorrow, block H. It'd genuinely be a pleasure to meet you and I'd be happy to buy you a pint beforehand, then you can properly judge whether you think I'm a twat. The internet is largely hot air and bravado, happy to step out from behind that bullshit. P.M. me Paul, it'd be good to hear your views on the game beforehand in person.

Of course it's comparable, we're not discussing the merits of the leagues. We're discussing Pearson's ability to make mistakes, be slow to fix them, but eventually turn it around.

It's cold hard facts that it has happened before, doesn't matter what league it's in. A shit formation, a poor line up and poor subs are the same no matter what league you're in. If his mistakes got exposed in the champ' at times it stands you reason they would be exploited even more by better manager and players in the league above.

I'm using history as reasoning for him being able to do it. You are using... Well I have no idea, to suggest it's impossible for him to have done it. But another shadowy figure, who turned it all around amazingly without anyone getting a whiff of it must have been responsible.

Truly baffling.

[RedSoxUK]

 

Not sure if this has been posted yet, Ranieri @4:20

[The Doctor]

I get the impression line-x licks windows for nourishment - either he's a bit special, or he's so stubbornly opposed to accepting that he's wrong that he's gone full conspiraloon.

[SpacedX]

Of course it's comparable, we're not discussing the merits of the leagues. We're discussing Pearson's ability to make mistakes, be slow to fix them, but eventually turn it around.

It's cold hard facts that it has happened before, doesn't matter what league it's in. A shit formation, a poor line up and poor subs are the same no matter what league you're in. If his mistakes got exposed in the champ' at times it stands you reason they would be exploited even more by better manager and players in the league above.

I'm using history as reasoning for him being able to do it. You are using... Well I have no idea, to suggest it's impossible for him to have done it. But another shadowy figure, who turned it all around amazingly without anyone getting a whiff of it must have been responsible.

Truly baffling.

No it's not comparable. The Championship is a more forgiving environment than the Premiership You are using that as your 'history' yet we are discussing Nige as a Premiership manager which is a completely different issue. You claim that I ... 

 

"suggest it's impossible for him to have done it. But another shadowy figure, who turned it all around amazingly without anyone getting a whiff of it must have been responsible."

 

No I don't, I'm not saying that at all. You did exactly the same with Col over his take on Cambiasso and misquoted his posts. You do it to a lot of members Babylon to reinforce your posts. Re-read my posts (granted, it may take three attempts to do so). You cherry pick whatever you choose an ignore it when I reply to your points, some of which I have conceded are well made. Perhaps you are 'truly baffled' because you completely disregard an discard points that you don't agree with. I don't suggest that it is 'impossible for him to have done it' - you are the one that favours absolute statements. I don't refer to a 'shadowy figure' either, that was your invention this afternoon. I don't believe that Nige was solely responsible for the turnaround and suggest that for the final nine games, influences on the field, alongside him in the dugout and possibly above became far more significant than they had been prior to the fifth round of the F.A. Cup.

 

You completely ignore my point that we were languishing at the foot of the table for five months, beneath far inferior sides mainly due to mismanagement - and I have provided ample examples of this. You then expect me to accept instead that overnight (which it was) Nige had some miraculous epiphany, completely u-turned on practically everything that he had instituted at the club and single handedly masterminded a Lazarus like comeback simply because he  had some miraculous realisation or even more ridiculously, that he had gradually 'taken time to learn'. You don't get time in the premiership, either on the field or off it. We were bottom of a reason, and much of that reason was that for most of the season the manager was out of his depth. I think by Easter, having narrowly avoided dismissal and with his back to the wall, if he had learned anything it was to listen and be more inclined to accept the help of his staff and senior players. I also suspect that some of his decisions were overruled by Rudkin with the sanctioning of the owners.

I get the impression line-x licks windows for nourishment - either he's a bit special, or he's so stubbornly opposed to accepting that he's wrong that he's gone full conspiraloon.

I'd agree with you but then we'd both be wrong.

[st albans fox]

Pundits can have opinions - that's their job. I just don't see any logical explained reasoning for their prediction that we will finish in the bottom three.

We are the form team of the division!

[The Doctor]

I'd agree with you but then we'd both be wrong.

Ahh, it's used dish cloths, not windows isn't it?

[SpacedX]

Ahh, it's used dish cloths, not windows isn't it?

Overused dish cloths

[Babylon]

No it's not comparable. The Championship is a more forgiving environment than the Premiership You are using that as your 'history' yet we are discussing Nige as a Premiership manager which is a completely different issue. 

But it wasn't forgiving was it. We went on one of the worst runs in the history of the bloody club for Christs sake... but guess what, we turned it around. Proof therefore that he's capable of turning it around.

 

 

"suggest it's impossible for him to have done it. But another shadowy figure, who turned it all around amazingly without anyone getting a whiff of it must have been responsible."

 

No I don't, I'm not saying that at all. You did exactly the same with Col over his take on Cambiasso and misquoted his posts. You do it to a lot of members Babylon to reinforce your posts. Re-read my posts (granted, it may take three attempts to do so). You cherry pick whatever you choose an ignore it when I reply to your points, some of which I have conceded are well made. Perhaps you are 'truly baffled' because you completely disregard an discard points that you don't agree with. I don't suggest that it is 'impossible for him to have done it' - you are the one that favours absolute statements. I don't refer to a 'shadowy figure' either, that was your invention this afternoon. I don't believe that Nige was solely responsible for the turnaround and suggest that for the final nine games, influences on the field, alongside him in the dugout and possibly above became far more significant than they had been prior to the fifth round of the F.A. Cup.

Just so I know, did these other influences have anything to do with the good performances at the start of the season, or from Christmas onwards... or is it just the loses.

 

And for the record, you've never even said who these people were until now, perhaps if you had I wouldn't be referring to them as shadowy figures.

 

 

You completely ignore my point that we were languishing at the foot of the table for five months, beneath far inferior sides mainly due to mismanagement - and I have provided ample examples of this.

I ignore it because it means nothing, we started well, we lost our way and we found our way again... and as I've pointed out it's happened before under him. We were behind Burnley and QPR for half a season before we eventually romped ahead of them... was it the other influences that finally got us above them then as well.

 

 

 

You then expect me to accept instead that overnight (which it was) Nige had some miraculous epiphany, completely u-turned on practically everything that he had instituted at the club and single handedly masterminded a Lazarus like comeback simply because he  had some miraculous realisation or even more ridiculously, that he had gradually 'taken time to learn'.

No it wasn't overnight at all. And you acuse me of igoring your stuff.    The turn around started post Christmas, where turgid defensive displays started to be replaced with displays of attacking intent (that we had already seen at the beginning of the season) Not all of them, but enough to give people hope.

 

 

You don't get time in the premiership, either on the field or off it. We were bottom of a reason, and much of that reason was that for most of the season the manager was out of his depth. I think by Easter, having narrowly avoided dismissal and with his back to the wall, if he had learned anything it was to listen and be more inclined to accept the help of his staff and senior players. I also suspect that some of his decisions were overruled by Rudkin with the sanctionin

You get 38 games and 10 months actually.

 

Yes we were bottom for a reason, he made mistakes October/November/December and buggered about with diamonds. Whether by luck or design we went with a 5 against Arsenal and played exceptionally well, which sowed the seed that it could work.

 

That's your thoughts, well done. Nothing to back it up as fact though, turning around bad form doesn't indicate any of those things.

 

And before you get in a tizzy about missing some of your points, I have other things to do with my life than reply to everything in minute detail.

[SpacedX]

. Whether by luck or design we went with a 5 against Arsenal and played exceptionally well, which sowed the seed that it could work.

 

That's your thoughts, well done. Nothing to back it up as fact though, turning around bad form doesn't indicate any of those things.

 

And before you get in a tizzy about missing some of your points, I have other things to do with my life than reply to everything in minute detail.

No, certain players played exceptionally well...do feel free to justify the decision of pitting Konchesky against Walcott though. Mahrez was outstanding that night and Kramaric's goal was class. Simpson was yet again atrocious. We then employed the same formation at home but to attempt to play a containment strategy against...Hull. Genius.

 

There is plenty to back up my theories, but yeah, that is all they are. As I said, I don't tend to trust statements masquerading as absolute fact. Our views are unfalsifiable and diametrically opposite and sure, we both have things to do - so this is pointless. Babylon, I enjoy many of your posts and your wit and will continue to do so. I suggest we leave it there. Right now I'd rather anticipate tomorrow and the opportunity over the next season to prove the critics and detractors of this club wrong. 

[The Doctor]

No, certain players played exceptionally well...do feel free to justify the decision of pitting Konchesky against Walcott though.

 

Schlupp was at left wing leaving us with no other left backs... Easy.

 

 

There is plenty to back up my theories,

 

 

Really? You should try mentioning it rather than spouting dribble about Pearson not actually being in charge for the final furlong or that it's impossible that he might have slowly learnt like he did in the championship because hurr durr thems is different leaguz....

Edited 7 August 2015 by The Doctor

[SpacedX]

Schlupp was at left wing leaving us with no other left backs... Easy.

 

But was after this very quickly deployed at WB partially to utilise his pace at the back. 

[RedSoxUK]

But was after this very quickly deployed at WB partially to utilise his pace at the back. 

 

What?

[SpacedX]

What?

Jeff was the better option to plug at wing back than Konchesky, because of the pace that he could offer tracking back...although often he forgot that it was his job - away to West Brom was a case in point. I'm surprised that away to Arsenal and facing Theo Walcott, this decision wasn't made then.

[RedSoxUK]

Jeff was the better option to plug at wing back than Konchesky, because of the pace that he could offer tracking back...although often he forgot that it was his job - away to West Brom was a case in point. I'm surprised that away to Arsenal and facing Theo Walcott, this decision wasn't made then.

 

In a 5 - 4 - 1 I'd definitely Schlupp as LM not LB, Konchesky wasn't playing as a wing back in the 5-4-1 it was straight 5.

 

And we played 'ok', enough to realise it didn't work playing a 4 then 1 system because you actually do need strikers to win games if you don't have the best of midfielders, which was our problem from day one.

[SpacedX]

In a 5 - 4 - 1 I'd definitely Schlupp as LM not LB, Konchesky wasn't playing as a wing back in the 5-4-1 it was straight 5.

 

 

Fair point, I agree because the idea was containment. But we were hopelessly exposed on the left which was immediately obvious. The goal from Walcott was inevitable.

[The Doctor]

But was after this very quickly deployed at WB partially to utilise his pace at the back. 

 

It wasn't a wing back system at arsenal though, it was a flat back five - and that after is when he tweaked it from 5-4-1 to what FM would call a 3-2-2-1-2 (the 3-4-1-2/3-4-3) - removing the left wing part, so that then left him with Schlupp available for the wing back position.

[RedSoxUK]

Fair point, I agree because the idea was containment. But we were hopelessly exposed on the left which was immediately obvious. The goal from Walcott was inevitable.

 

Losing to Arsenal was inevitable.

[whetstonefox]

Just watching Fletch and Sav on BT ,Discussion about CR, Rio Ferdinand just said there is lots going on behind the scenes with players not happy with the way training is going and other issues.

Guess we'll have a better idea by 5 o'clock!

[Max Power]

Imagine watching "Fletch and Sav"

[whetstonefox]

Was that or Saturday kitchen live!

[The Doctor]

Imagine thinking Rio Ferdinand had any insight into our training sessions...

[davieG]

Ferdinand getting training in the Savage school of punditry where you don't give intelligent views and insight but focus on controversy and attention seeking shit stirring because that's  what sadly will earn you a new contract and celebrity status.

[Webbo]

I assume Rio Ferdinand has said we'll go down?