Anyone would think we lost 10-0

[James.]

most of all, i dont think that anyone who is basing their statements on the radio commentary can offer any opinion on the players and how they are playing.

Not sure if that's in reference to me but I can't see anyone else who has openly stated they haven't been to any games this season... as such I have 2 points to make.

1. I haven't even bothered with most of the radio commentary (apart from when you kindly supplied an audio feed to your living room!)

2. I'm being very careful not to give an opinion on the players and how they are playing. I'm merely contrasting the different views on here as I'm genuinely intrigued as to what substance the optimism has apart from a general belief that things will turn round soon. Generally it appears to me the pessimists are backing up their pessimism with evidence based on performances so far whereas the optimists aren't really basing their optimism on anything.

For the record I think we'll continue to muddle through in or around the upper mid-table mark. And like I said in a different thread I wouldn't be surprised if Sven is out of a job at Christmas.

[Kitchandro]

It is equally illogical and naive to insist that the sh*t's going to hit the fan soon.

"Football is wildly unpredictable"...

Well, I've been saying this all along. So why do you and your negative peers insist on seeing us losing track as the season progresses? You know as little as I do.

You can only measure long-term success after... yes, right... a longer period of time. And not six games into a new season.

The shit has already hit the fan in terms of performances. I'm waiting for some reason to be optimistic (as in, some encouragement from the way we are playing football).

Don't criticise people for being negative if you can't think of any other reason to be positive other than you just 'believe'.

[Kitchandro]

To be fair though we've see a good run under Sven already last season with a more thrown together side and we've seen flashes of good football so far this season which we didn't have under Sousa, so its not totally illogical to deduce that we can put together a good run and play good football under Sven with a bit more consistency.

We did see some flashes of good football under Sousa - Boro at home, Cardiff at home, Coventry away. Not nearly enough though, much like Sven at the moment.

[Kitchandro]

I quite agree with this. Personally I think if good players are played in their proper positions, and everyone in the team knows their role in an effective formation, then it shouldn't take that long for the team to 'gel'. This is football we're speaking about after all, not rocket science - and these people play football together for 30 hours a week.

As far as I can see, most of our 'gelling' problems have been of our own making. We bought Danns as a central midfielder but have been trying to play him at left wing. Dyer (the only player in the squad without a right foot) we have continued to play on the right wing. Against Reading Abe, Wellens and Fernandes were all playing in the same position and were stood next to each other for most of the game. Sven has persisted with 4-4-3 despite overwhelming evidence that we play better with 2 men upfront. Most of the players in midfield don't actually seem to have a clue what they are meant to be doing.

I think our play will improve in time - but if it does, it won't be because of some 'magic key' turning or because thinks just start to 'click'. It will be because Sven and the players eventually settle on tactics that actually work.

This

[MC Prussian]

I do have to hand it to you.. Today you are like a dog with a bone and will not back down...despite many disagreeing with you

You reply to each response to what is tantamount to an essay.. Do you not work?

My job involves a lot of editing, which more than often consists of time spent on rendering video sequences.

I have to use a computer for that, so passing this time online is pretty much a preferred leisure activity of mine.

[ozleicester]

Not sure if that's in reference to me but I can't see anyone else who has openly stated they haven't been to any games this season... as such I have 2 points to make.

1. I haven't even bothered with most of the radio commentary (apart from when you kindly supplied an audio feed to your living room!)

2. I'm being very careful not to give an opinion on the players and how they are playing. I'm merely contrasting the different views on here as I'm genuinely intrigued as to what substance the optimism has apart from a general belief that things will turn round soon. Generally it appears to me the pessimists are backing up their pessimism with evidence based on performances so far whereas the optimists aren't really basing their optimism on anything.

For the record I think we'll continue to muddle through in or around the upper mid-table mark. And like I said in a different thread I wouldn't be surprised if Sven is out of a job at Christmas.

Wasnt aimed at you specifically, was purely a random statement given that i have read soo many comments from people who have only listened to the bbc and have then come out and said we are playing complete sh*t. If youve watched a few games and made your comments based on that then to me thats all fine.. your welcome to your opinion... but i stand by the fact that, the radio comenentary is appalling in terms of describing the game or giving any real idea of the games being played by players.

Ive seen us play some brilliant football under sven and if we are basing the future on the past... that suggests we will play even more brilliant football as the players learn more about each other.

"Gelling" is not about just playing alongside someone, its about learning where they run to instinctively, about learning when they will make their run,..it just takes time.... and yes requires the opportunity to play alongside each other regularly.

My general feeling of optimisim is based on...

1) the games ive seen this year i have seen us play some dominant and top drawer football.

2) the players we have brought in are established, skilled and experienced professionals who dont stop being talented overnight.

3) the manager we have is an experienced, knowledgable and successful manager

[marbelladave]

And this hope manifests itself in various forms - I acknowledge that.

However, I'm not a blind optimist. There have been tactical mistakes, a sloppy attitude from certain players.

I do see room for improvements, but negating this possibility (like many of the critics posting on here over the past few weeks saying we're well off pace) is also not the answer.

People are not 'negating this possibility', they are simply taking the evidence from what they have seen and concluding that there are no grounds to be optimistic about the shambolic and disorganised way we are playing at the moment. Even worse, they see absolutely no improvement in our team play from one game to the next. The chaos in our defence in our last game was as bad as anything I have seen this season, a more competent team than Barnsley would have beaten us with ease.

The shit has already hit the fan in terms of performances. I'm waiting for some reason to be optimistic (as in, some encouragement from the way we are playing football).

Don't criticise people for being negative if you can't think of any other reason to be positive other than you just 'believe'.

i see flashes from the players that suggest that we have a squad that, properly selected, set up and organised will be a match for anyone in this league. That is the one 'reason to be optimistic' that I can find.

We did see some flashes of good football under Sousa - Boro at home, Cardiff at home, Coventry away. Not nearly enough though, much like Sven at the moment.

Under Sousa you could see what he was trying to achieve, however badly he went about achieving it. At present there seems to be no purpose or structure to our play, any good play we produce is achieved by individual players (Danns and Fernandes against Forest, for example) stepping above the dross of our general play and showing a bit of class.

[Kitchandro]

Wasnt aimed at you specifically, was purely a random statement given that i have read soo many comments from people who have only listened to the bbc and have then come out and said we are playing complete sh*t. If youve watched a few games and made your comments based on that then to me thats all fine.. your welcome to your opinion... but i stand by the fact that, the radio comenentary is appalling in terms of describing the game or giving any real idea of the games being played by players.

Ive seen us play some brilliant football under sven and if we are basing the future on the past... that suggests we will play even more brilliant football as the players learn more about each other.

"Gelling" is not about just playing alongside someone, its about learning where they run to instinctively, about learning when they will make their run,..it just takes time.... and yes requires the opportunity to play alongside each other regularly.

My general feeling of optimisim is based on...

1) the games ive seen this year i have seen us play some dominant and top drawer football.

2) the players we have brought in are established, skilled and experienced professionals who dont stop being talented overnight.

3) the manager we have is an experienced, knowledgable and successful manager

But surely the of the ball movement should happen anyway? I can understand if passes don't quite find their man early on, I can't understand a team that's so rigid and lacks movement, which lacks pace and ideas. I wouldn't mind if we were trying to play good football, but we're just resorting to hoofing very early on because we have such a lack of anything whilst we have the ball.

As for your points about why you're optimistic:

1) No idea where you're getting this from, unless you only saw the Forest game and the first half against Southampton. Even then I'd say 'dominant' and 'top drawer' are exaggerations. We did play some very good football at times last season, but we now have a lot of different personnel (and I don't mean we need time to gel, I mean we don't have the players to play that kind of football, slow full backs as opposed to quick ones being the main difference). Sven is also adopting a completely different, much more negative and boring style of play this season, partly because he's bought different types of players, but also because he's playing the wrong system.

2) Fair to some extent, but not all of them are that good, some are average, some like Mills have looked nothing but terrible, and I'm starting to wonder if he is talented or if we've made a big mistake. In any case, they still have to play as a team, not individuals. We are also still lacking in certain areas (pace, creativity) and we don't have players in the squad who offer a solution.

3) I'm judging him on what he's done here, not somewhere else. He's not shown much knowledge about tactics since he's been here, and if he's not successful at the end of this season with us, then what he's done everywhere else will mean nothing.

I get that you still feel positive, nothing wrong with that, but surely it's quite clear why some people feel negative also?

[Kitchandro]

People are not 'negating this possibility', they are simply taking the evidence from what they have seen and concluding that there are no grounds to be optimistic about the shambolic and disorganised way we are playing at the moment. Even worse, they see absolutely no improvement in our team play from one game to the next. The chaos in our defence in our last game was as bad as anything I have seen this season, a more competent team than Barnsley would have beaten us with ease.

i see flashes from the players that suggest that we have a squad that, properly selected, set up and organised will be a match for anyone in this league. That is the one 'reason to be optimistic' that I can find.

Under Sousa you could see what he was trying to achieve, however badly he went about achieving it. At present there seems to be no purpose or structure to our play, any good play we produce is achieved by individual players (Danns and Fernandes against Forest, for example) stepping above the dross of our general play and showing a bit of class.

Yes I agree with all of that

[cc_star]

I quite agree with this. Personally I think if good players are played in their proper positions, and everyone in the team knows their role in an effective formation, then it shouldn't take that long for the team to 'gel'. This is football we're speaking about after all, not rocket science - and these people play football together for 30 hours a week.

As far as I can see, most of our 'gelling' problems have been of our own making. We bought Danns as a central midfielder but have been trying to play him at left wing. Dyer (the only player in the squad without a right foot) we have continued to play on the right wing. Against Reading Abe, Wellens and Fernandes were all playing in the same position and were stood next to each other for most of the game. Sven has persisted with 4-4-3 despite overwhelming evidence that we play better with 2 men upfront. Most of the players in midfield don't actually seem to have a clue what they are meant to be doing.

I think our play will improve in time - but if it does, it won't be because of some 'magic key' turning or because thinks just start to 'click'. It will be because Sven and the players eventually settle on tactics that actually work.

Cheers,

Yep spot on.

Gelling is a non-issue, a working formation that the players understand, tactics & leadership is required from the man himself, until then we're pissing in the wind with square pegs in round holes and no one knowing what they're supposed to be doing, it's impossible to gel in those circumstances

[marbelladave]

Yes I agree with all of that

Wow.......

Is this the right time to have a little word about Ritchie..........

Cheers,

Yep spot on.

Gelling is a non-issue, a working formation that the players understand, tactics & leadership is required from the man himself, until then we're pissing in the wind with square pegs in round holes and no one knowing what they're supposed to be doing, it's impossible to gel in those circumstances

And unfortunately there apears to be no sign that the situation is being worked on. There has been no improvement in our team play whatsoever, we were as poor defensively against Barnsley as we have been all season.

Only some heroics from Schmeichel saved a point and even more damning apart from the 30 seconds after half time we never really looked like scoring.

For MC and the rest of the optimists, I think we have players who can turn this around and make us seriously competitive and that could happen on saturday, it's just that from the games we have played this season I see no evidence that it will......

[accessory]

As little as possible, if feasible, even gain points as the season progresses. We will gain points because Brighton's and Southampton's run won't continue forever.

Southampton's good start to the season came to an end - thanks to us. Brighton struggled against a resilient (yet harmless) Bristol City side and only won the game towards the end of the match.

They'll drop points for sure.

It's in the nature of football. You should know better.

And how did we do AT HOME to that same Bristol City side?

Brighton's bubble will indeed burst in the next few weeks. But I'm not convinced we'll be the ones knocking them off their perch. Gus Poyet has built a side on organisation, spirit and cohesion - qualities which we've been notably lacking for most of the season.

[Guest MattP]

And how did we do AT HOME to that same Bristol City side?

Brighton's bubble will indeed burst in the next few weeks. But I'm not convinced we'll be the ones knocking them off their perch. Gus Poyet has built a side on organisation, spirit and cohesion - qualities which we've been notably lacking for most of the season.

According to my report in the Times Brighton dominated the game and the goal was always coming?

What;s worrying they shut down Maynard with no fuss at all, that doesnt bode well for us.

[Corky]

Wow.......

Is this the right time to have a little word about Ritchie..........

And unfortunately there apears to be no sign that the situation is being worked on. There has been no improvement in our team play whatsoever, we were as poor defensively against Barnsley as we have been all season.

Only some heroics from Schmeichel saved a point and even more damning apart from the 30 seconds after half time we never really looked like scoring.

For MC and the rest of the optimists, I think we have players who can turn this around and make us seriously competitive and that could happen on saturday, it's just that from the games we have played this season I see no evidence that it will......

The problem is that we haven't had a complete, 90-minute performance yet.

That, in my opinion, has added to the negativity, because we can't sit here and say "that's what we need to be aiming for". We've had two good 45-minutes, need to combine them now.

[accessory]

We have already won games in this league and there is no reason why we won't win some more.

We've also lost and drawn games, and the form guide suggests we will continue to do so, especially during the next few weeks.

Besides, your, mine or any other fan's money is peanuts compared to the money poured into the club by the new consortium. If you think that just because you pay money to see your team play you have a god-given right to criticise the club to death, you're sadly mistaken.

The consortium putting money into the club are doing so in the expectation their money will eventually, one way or another, be repaid. Fans paying considerable sums each week for the privilege of that club are seeking a different kind of reward - fulfilment of a potential that has been denied to us for far too long. On the evidence of the past few months, our dreams (and indeed those of the owners) are still some way from being realised.

You have no power, no say in how this club is run. Fans merely show up because they'd like to be entertained and because they identify with the institution.

That may be the perception from your Swiss ivory tower, but the reality in Leicester is rather different. This forum and some of its prominent members have been very influential in forcing changes at the club in recent years - an example being when Sousa left.

In your case, you show up expecting/demanding a good show week in, week out. It's only logical that with your mindset, you'll be more disappointed than the regular match-goer.

You, as a fan, demand too much and give little in return.

I don't see why Leicester City should continue to under-achieve for years on end while far smaller clubs are regular settled features in the top flight. The crowds we pulled in for the Manchester City and Real Madrid games were an indication of the fanbase we should be attracting on a regular basis. But with each year of exile that passed, more and more fans are swayed by the pull of Liverpool, Manyoo and Chelsea (and these days Real and Barca too). Ambition should not be a dirty word.

As for Norwich and Swansea, playing attractive football in the Championship is one thing.

When you look at how they and QPR are doing in the Premier League this season, then I say that was all show for nothing.

If you want to build a sustainable squad that can last in the highest league of English football, instant success on the day is not the answer.

Most promoted clubs struggle during their first season in the top flight, especially if (as in the case of Norwich and Swansea) their managers haven't been there previously, and the boards, fearing instant demotion, limit the resources available for new recruits. Such struggles are not surprising in view of the ever-widening gulf between the Premier League and the Championship. Even a weak team like Blackburn would comfortably see off the likes of Southampton and West Ham, let alone us.

And again, we're just 6 games into a new season with a first team that consists of more than 50 percent entirely new players.

You won't find many teams in England (or the world for that matter) who're going through the same transformation process than we do.

The reason we're going through such an upheaval is because the manager has made judgement calls upon the members of the squad who were here when he arrived. It's not a surprise to see pundits and sections of the fanbase making similar calls about his time in charge to date.

It'll come together. Patience is a virtue. It's about time you demonstrated some.

Loyalty and commitment are virtues too, and fans of our club have shown both in abundance, especially during the traumas of the past decade.

[Guest Col city fan]

This thread has gone on and one and on......

Simply, we all want the same thing... to see Leicester win, end of.

I, for one, thought we'd see Leicester win more than they have done during the last six games. So did most people, I would guess.

The reasons why we havent are mere conjecture... but I merely wish to be entertained more than I have been. With the exception of an exciting game against the Saints, the performances this season so far have been BORING!

Lets beat Brighton on Saturday, kick-on and stop the endless debate.....

[21st Century Fox]

This thread has gone on and one and on......

Simply, we all want the same thing... to see Leicester win, end of.

I, for one, thought we'd see Leicester win more than they have done during the last six games. So did most people, I would guess.

The reasons why we havent are mere conjecture... but I merely wish to be entertained more than I have been. With the exception of an exciting game against the Saints, the performances this season so far have been BORING!

Lets beat Brighton on Saturday, kick-on and stop the endless debate.....

Sense!!

[sphericalfox]

This thread has gone on and one and on......

Simply, we all want the same thing... to see Leicester win, end of.

I, for one, thought we'd see Leicester win more than they have done during the last six games. So did most people, I would guess.

The reasons why we havent are mere conjecture... but I merely wish to be entertained more than I have been. With the exception of an exciting game against the Saints, the performances this season so far have been BORING!

Lets beat Brighton on Saturday, kick-on and stop the endless debate.....

[Guest Col city fan]

why the pink flip-flops? Are you suggesting I'm a gayer?

[MC Prussian]

We've also lost and drawn games, and the form guide suggests we will continue to do so, especially during the next few weeks.

The consortium putting money into the club are doing so in the expectation their money will eventually, one way or another, be repaid. Fans paying considerable sums each week for the privilege of that club are seeking a different kind of reward - fulfilment of a potential that has been denied to us for far too long. On the evidence of the past few months, our dreams (and indeed those of the owners) are still some way from being realised.

That may be the perception from your Swiss ivory tower, but the reality in Leicester is rather different. This forum and some of its prominent members have been very influential in forcing changes at the club in recent years - an example being when Sousa left.

I don't see why Leicester City should continue to under-achieve for years on end while far smaller clubs are regular settled features in the top flight. The crowds we pulled in for the Manchester City and Real Madrid games were an indication of the fanbase we should be attracting on a regular basis. But with each year of exile that passed, more and more fans are swayed by the pull of Liverpool, Manyoo and Chelsea (and these days Real and Barca too). Ambition should not be a dirty word.

Most promoted clubs struggle during their first season in the top flight, especially if (as in the case of Norwich and Swansea) their managers haven't been there previously, and the boards, fearing instant demotion, limit the resources available for new recruits. Such struggles are not surprising in view of the ever-widening gulf between the Premier League and the Championship. Even a weak team like Blackburn would comfortably see off the likes of Southampton and West Ham, let alone us.

The reason we're going through such an upheaval is because the manager has made judgement calls upon the members of the squad who were here when he arrived. It's not a surprise to see pundits and sections of the fanbase making similar calls about his time in charge to date.

Loyalty and commitment are virtues too, and fans of our club have shown both in abundance, especially during the traumas of the past decade.

Form guide can suggest as much as it wants to, it reflects games past. What counts is the game ahead.

Dreams can come true, but it doesn't bode well when the expectations exceed the current level of play. It spells disillusion.

Nothing against ambition, but the way this ambition materializes itself can be ugly - in particular on the fans' side.

Maybe one day you'll be able to demonstrate me how FT was so "influential" in past club decisions, for instance sacking Sousa. Paulo dug his own grave by not meeting the club's own goals.

The response from the fans might be an additional source of information for a board of a football club, but ultimately, it's the board's decision what the future of the club is concerned.

Just because we're Leicester City doesn't mean we have this god-given right to be in the Premiership. How pretentious and arrogant can one be?

There's similar clubs with similar stadia and similar fanbases in this league (Leeds, Southampton, Birmingham, West Ham or maybe even Middlesbrough) who'd "deserve" to be up there just like us according to your logic.

Teams like Fulham, Swansea, Norwich, Wigan or QPR have earned their right to play in the Premier League on a sportive basis. There's nothing wrong with that.

If you want to complain about something, complain about the lack of attention for the Championship by the FA. If this league would get a proper TV deal, more coverage and be financially more attractive, things would look much different.

But that's not Fulham's, Wigan's or Norwich's fault.

To be honest with you, I wouldn't really want to see a large majority of those "extra" fans that came to see Real Madrid play on a regular basis, because they've got no personal interest in Leicester City, no connection to the club whatsoever.

They're merely glory hunters. They come for one game and then they're gone again.

As for Blackburn seeing off better Championship clubs, that is debatable. Despite the budget, the current Blackburn team is one of the weakest they've had in decades.

And blaming the lack of support for Leicester on the attractivity of PL teams is rather rubbish.

You could also name ticket prices, the vicinity to the Tigers or the current economic climate as a reason for a lack of support.

Although I must say with a certain amount of pride that we're one of the rather better supported teams in this league and still attract average crowds of roughly 24'000.

Also, I wasn't saying that the newly-promoted teams would struggle for the entire season.

QPR, Swansea and Norwich are struggling now, but they will find more into the game as the season progresses, just as much as our team will adapt to the Championship.

And we have a good mix of talented players at this club, we had to strengthen in most areas in order to compete accordingly (mainly because the gap between the Premier League and the Championship is widening each year, as you've pointed out yourself).

Sorry if you've been overly traumatized by the events in the past 5 to 10 years. Looking back, I think of it as a cleansing process that got rid of many harmful or unhealthy elements at this club.

A cesura was more than necessary. We've started anew, on a fresh basis with new foundations. It's going to take a while to get to the 46th floor of this building, but we're working on it.

[accessory]

So now you're telling us we should actually celebrate under-achievement?

I guess that what comes of being a part-time fan - whether a club succeeds or fails doesn't really matter to them.. Too bad if many of the hired staff (players and/or management think the same way.

[acooling08]

Accessory really just lighten the fuck up.

We ended Southampton's table-topping form, so why can't we do it against Brighton?

You say you're a loyal fan but all you do is moan constantly, how is that supporting a team?

[Sods]

If we beat Brighton that will mean 8 points in 4 games. Win your home games draw your away. Up the foxes.