Anyone would think we lost 10-0

[21st Century Fox]

I predict if we lose our next game Foxestalk will implode causing a vaccum.

[Master Fox]

I can't recall what year it was, but I remember Sunderland being bottom of the league at the end of September and then going on to win the league under Keane that same season.

[Guest MattP]

I can't recall what year it was, but I remember Sunderland being bottom of the league at the end of September and then going on to win the league under Keane that same season.

and I can remember 400 teams that didnt.

[Master Fox]

and I can remember 400 teams that didnt.

[Heskey2011]

To all those who swallowed the pre season bollocks whole.

So we are not going to piss the league, welcome to the real World.

Now please stop overreacting and show some support for the team you are supposed to love.

Completely agree, show the love and keep the hate to yourselves.

[Guest MattP]

Sorry but "Sunderland were once bottom" is a ridiculous point to make, they were bottom after 4 games, they won the league. Fantastic. I dont think anyone would advocate such a start as reasoning to think something is going well.

The problem for me isnt the league position, the results or the quality of the squad.

It's the fact we are.....

Struggling to put away poorer sides in the league and even been outplayed by a couple of them.

Our defence looks likely to concede bagloads of goals and there seems to be no intention to change it.

We have no wide players capable of playing in the 4-3-3 system when we use it and that can't change until Jan.

We are totally incapable of playing to our full ability for longer than 45 mins.

I can't sit here and just hope things will "come good" when the things that are preventing that are carrying on as normal and it seems like our management has no intention of changing it.

[Happy Fox]

Sorry but "Sunderland were once bottom" is a ridiculous point to make, they were bottom after 4 games, they won the league. Fantastic. I dont think anyone would advocate such a start as reasoning to think something is going well.

The problem for me isnt the league position, the results or the quality of the squad.

It's the fact we are.....

Struggling to put away poorer sides in the league and even been outplayed by a couple of them.

Our defence looks likely to concede bagloads of goals and there seems to be no intention to change it.

We have no wide players capable of playing in the 4-3-3 system when we use it and that can't change until Jan.

We are totally incapable of playing to our full ability for longer than 45 mins.

I can't sit here and just hope things will "come good" when the things that are preventing that are carrying on as normal and it seems like our management has no intention of changing it.

Absolutely agree 100%

[Master Fox]

Sorry but "Sunderland were once bottom" is a ridiculous point to make, they were bottom after 4 games, they won the league. Fantastic. I dont think anyone would advocate such a start as reasoning to think something is going well.

The problem for me isnt the league position, the results or the quality of the squad.

It's the fact we are.....

Struggling to put away poorer sides in the league and even been outplayed by a couple of them.

Our defence looks likely to concede bagloads of goals and there seems to be no intention to change it.

We have no wide players capable of playing in the 4-3-3 system when we use it and that can't change until Jan.

We are totally incapable of playing to our full ability for longer than 45 mins.

I can't sit here and just hope things will "come good" when the things that are preventing that are carrying on as normal and it seems like our management has no intention of changing it.

I want to reply, but I just can't be bothered. Sorry.

[MC Prussian]

Sorry but "Sunderland were once bottom" is a ridiculous point to make, they were bottom after 4 games, they won the league. Fantastic. I dont think anyone would advocate such a start as reasoning to think something is going well.

The problem for me isnt the league position, the results or the quality of the squad.

It's the fact we are.....

Struggling to put away poorer sides in the league and even been outplayed by a couple of them.

Our defence looks likely to concede bagloads of goals and there seems to be no intention to change it.

We have no wide players capable of playing in the 4-3-3 system when we use it and that can't change until Jan.

We are totally incapable of playing to our full ability for longer than 45 mins.

I can't sit here and just hope things will "come good" when the things that are preventing that are carrying on as normal and it seems like our management has no intention of changing it.

a) We're only six games into the new season

b) Our defense may well learn how to defend in the next 40 games to come (but then again, it's easier to complain about their abilities than to encourage them to learn from their mistakes and to support the team)

In addition, there are many more teams in this league who've let in just as many goals as we have.

But if you want to, we can argue about the difference between conceding 7 goals or 9 goals after 6 gameweeks if necessary.

At this stage of the season, it's ludicrous trying to attach negative attributes to defenses, because most teams struggle just as much as we do in that department.

c) If Sven stuck with the 4-4-2, there would be no complaining about the lack of wide players

d) It is not after 45 minutes that we start huffing and puffing, it's closer to the 70 to 80-minute mark - but then again, which teams don't lack stamina comes the final fourth of a game?

e) It's the Championship - anything is possible

Seriously, sometimes one could think that the biggest critics on here always assume Sven would put a team full of Supermen out there every matchday.

Like already stated in other threads, it's this misconception that we'd easily walk this league that needs to vanish from people's minds. It's not like other teams don't know how to play football.

Besides, most other clubs have first-team squads that have remained virtually unchanged over the summer - see Barnsley for a good example.

So what they lack in talent (allegedly), they make up for in the routine department.

P.S.: Things will come good.

[21st Century Fox]

a) We're only six games into the new season

b) Our defense may well learn how to defend in the next 40 games to come (but then again, it's easier to complain about their abilities than to encourage them to learn from their mistakes and to support the team)

In addition, there are many more teams in this league who've let in just as many goals as we have.

At this stage of the season, it's ludicrous trying to attach negative attributes to defenses, because most teams struggle just as much as we do in that department.

c) If Sven stuck with the 4-4-2, there would be no complaining about the lack of wide players

d) It is not after 45 minutes that we start huffing and puffing, it's closer to the 70 to 80-minute mark - but then again, which teams don't lack stamina comes the final fourth of a game?

Seriously, sometimes one could assume the biggest critics on here always assume Sven would put a team full of Supermen out there every matchday.

Like already stated in other threads, it's this misconception that we'd easily walk this league that needs to vanish from people's minds. It's not like other teams don't know how to play football.

Besides, most other teams have first-team squads that have remained virtually unchanged over the summer - see Barnsley for a good example.

So what they lack in talent (allegedly), they make up for in routine department.

P.S.: Things will come good.

[Guest MattP]

a) We're only six games into the new season

b) Our defense may well learn how to defend in the next 40 games to come (but then again, it's easier to complain about their abilities than to encourage them to learn from their mistakes and to support the team)

In addition, there are many more teams in this league who've let in just as many goals as we have.

But if you want to, we can argue about the difference between conceding 7 goals or 9 goals after 6 gameweeks if necessary.

At this stage of the season, it's ludicrous trying to attach negative attributes to defenses, because most teams struggle just as much as we do in that department.

c) If Sven stuck with the 4-4-2, there would be no complaining about the lack of wide players

d) It is not after 45 minutes that we start huffing and puffing, it's closer to the 70 to 80-minute mark - but then again, which teams don't lack stamina comes the final fourth of a game?

e) It's the Championship - anything is possible

Seriously, sometimes one could think that the biggest critics on here always assume Sven would put a team full of Supermen out there every matchday.

Like already stated in other threads, it's this misconception that we'd easily walk this league that needs to vanish from people's minds. It's not like other teams don't know how to play football.

Besides, most other clubs have first-team squads that have remained virtually unchanged over the summer - see Barnsley for a good example.

So what they lack in talent (allegedly), they make up for in the routine department.

P.S.: Things will come good.

Well lets hope you are right, for all of our sakes.

Unless some major things change very quickly I don't envisage our results getting too much better.

On the points, Sven actually can't play 4-4-2 because he doesnt have the personnel to do it without playing Vassell or Danns out of position.

Which teams don't lack stamina at 70-80 mins? Southampton seemed to get stronger at that point, West Ham seem too. I'm sure many others in the league dont fall away on 70 mins. I have no idea why this seems to be happening.

The championship, anything is possible? Yep, well no actually, Doncaster won't win it. I dont really understand what that has to do with anything?

Like I have said, I wouldnt even consider removing Sven until xmas, but I'm going to challenge him when his tactics and team selections keep coming off 2nd best to managers with far less resources available.

[keithpaw]

a) We're only six games into the new season

b) Our defense may well learn how to defend in the next 40 games to come (but then again, it's easier to complain about their abilities than to encourage them to learn from their mistakes and to support the team)

In addition, there are many more teams in this league who've let in just as many goals as we have.

But if you want to, we can argue about the difference between conceding 7 goals or 9 goals after 6 gameweeks if necessary.

At this stage of the season, it's ludicrous trying to attach negative attributes to defenses, because most teams struggle just as much as we do in that department.

c) If Sven stuck with the 4-4-2, there would be no complaining about the lack of wide players

d) It is not after 45 minutes that we start huffing and puffing, it's closer to the 70 to 80-minute mark - but then again, which teams don't lack stamina comes the final fourth of a game?

e) It's the Championship - anything is possible

Seriously, sometimes one could think that the biggest critics on here always assume Sven would put a team full of Supermen out there every matchday.

Like already stated in other threads, it's this misconception that we'd easily walk this league that needs to vanish from people's minds. It's not like other teams don't know how to play football.

Besides, most other clubs have first-team squads that have remained virtually unchanged over the summer - see Barnsley for a good example.

So what they lack in talent (allegedly), they make up for in the routine department.

P.S.: Things will come good.

At last someone who speaks (or wrights sense) give it time this league is no pushover and never will be!

[MC Prussian]

Well lets hope you are right, for all of our sakes.

Unless some major things change very quickly I don't envisage our results getting too much better.

On the points, Sven actually can't play 4-4-2 because he doesnt have the personnel to do it without playing Vassell or Danns out of position.

Which teams don't lack stamina at 70-80 mins? Southampton seemed to get stronger at that point, West Ham seem too. I'm sure many others in the league dont fall away on 70 mins. I have no idea why this seems to be happening.

The championship, anything is possible? Yep, well no actually, Doncaster won't win it. I dont really understand what that has to do with anything?

Like I have said, I wouldnt even consider removing Sven until xmas, but I'm going to challenge him when his tactics and team selections keep coming off 2nd best to managers with far less resources available.

You know I suffer when we played badly just as much as you do.

BUT... I don't have the attitude that "things need to change quickly", because they never do and never change as planned.

And MAYBE, just MAYBE you've seen a Southampton side getting stronger towards the end because our lads lost the plot and the stamina and the Saints players took advantage of it.

That doesn't mean a shift in power in absolute terms, rather relatively speaking, don't you think?

And which West Ham game are you referring to?

As for the whole "It's the Championship - anything is possible" thing, I've got a few good friends with me right now. They'd like to tell you a few stories, maybe you'll find that I have a point in there somewhere:

• Peterborough 7 - 1 Ipswich Town
• Leeds finding themselves near a relegation spot after the first five rounds
• Derby losing to Coventry
• Brighton top of the league after 6 games played
• Crystal Palace in 8th spot after 6 rounds

But of course, you're entitled to your "we're absolutely doomed" argument. I'll stick to my "we're relatively close to a playoff spot" line.

[Guest MattP]

But of course, you're entitled to your "we're absolutely doomed" argument. I'll stick to my "we're relatively close to a playoff spot" line.

Stop totally distorting what I am saying.

I have made a few points as to why I think we are losing points this season. I don't think we are doomed, I still think despite all the problems we have a top 8 finish with our squad should be no problem. I do expect top 2/3 though for the money we have outlayed.

I just want what I see as obvious errors put right, a man of Sven's supposed calibre should be able to see what a lot of other can even in a league he has little experience of.

[Bugg]

http://www.lcfc.com/page/LeagueTable/0,,10274~20060909,00.html 2006/07 - Derby and Sunderland

http://www.lcfc.com/page/LeagueTable/0,,10274~20070922,00.html 2007/08 - Hull City

http://www.lcfc.com/page/LeagueTable/0,,10274~20090912,00.html 2009/10 - Blackpool

http://www.lcfc.com/page/LeagueTable/0,,10274~20100914,00.html 2010/11 - Norwich and Swansea

In Conclusion, we all need to chill out.

[biggs]

8 games in with a revamped team where the players have yet to be given time to gel as a team and some fans are upset we are not an instant success. Through the eyes of many everything should reflect the fast food, drive through window, give it to me now world. Get a grip, be patient and support the team. It's way too early to be in panic mode.

[MC Prussian]

Stop totally distorting what I am saying.

I have made a few points as to why I think we are losing points this season. I don't think we are doomed, I still think despite all the problems we have a top 8 finish with our squad should be no problem. I do expect top 2/3 though for the money we have outlayed.

I just want what I see as obvious errors put right, a man of Sven's supposed calibre should be able to see what a lot of other can even in a league he has little experience of.

I know, I know. I was merely trying to provoke a little more in-depth response from you because for every point your raise, there's a counter-argument.

Maybe I wanted to say that the things you say we're lacking I say we'll be gaining as the season progresses.

Progress and development are made mid- to long-term. Criticism is always instant.

[Thracian]

a) We're only six games into the new season

b) Our defense may well learn how to defend in the next 40 games to come (but then again, it's easier to complain about their abilities than to encourage them to learn from their mistakes and to support the team)

In addition, there are many more teams in this league who've let in just as many goals as we have.

But if you want to, we can argue about the difference between conceding 7 goals or 9 goals after 6 gameweeks if necessary.

At this stage of the season, it's ludicrous trying to attach negative attributes to defenses, because most teams struggle just as much as we do in that department.

c) If Sven stuck with the 4-4-2, there would be no complaining about the lack of wide players

d) It is not after 45 minutes that we start huffing and puffing, it's closer to the 70 to 80-minute mark - but then again, which teams don't lack stamina comes the final fourth of a game?

e) It's the Championship - anything is possible

Seriously, sometimes one could think that the biggest critics on here always assume Sven would put a team full of Supermen out there every matchday.

Like already stated in other threads, it's this misconception that we'd easily walk this league that needs to vanish from people's minds. It's not like other teams don't know how to play football.

Besides, most other clubs have first-team squads that have remained virtually unchanged over the summer - see Barnsley for a good example.

So what they lack in talent (allegedly), they make up for in the routine department.

P.S.: Things will come good.

[Wymsey]

More than anything else, it's the defence that's greatly letting us down. Mills and Bamba don't work imo, I would give St.Ledger a chance if I were Sven on Saturday, considering he has played quite well in the internationals

Not happy with Gallagher on the wing.

King needs to be on from the start. He's our main player imo, alongside Beckford.

If only Sven plays 4-4-2 for the whole game and not switching it (making players change the way they play to help them try adapt to the changing formation), things may have been better in the last game or two.

[Thracian]

a) We're only six games into the new season

b) Our defense may well learn how to defend in the next 40 games to come (but then again, it's easier to complain about their abilities than to encourage them to learn from their mistakes and to support the team)

In addition, there are many more teams in this league who've let in just as many goals as we have.

But if you want to, we can argue about the difference between conceding 7 goals or 9 goals after 6 gameweeks if necessary.

At this stage of the season, it's ludicrous trying to attach negative attributes to defenses, because most teams struggle just as much as we do in that department.

c) If Sven stuck with the 4-4-2, there would be no complaining about the lack of wide players

d) It is not after 45 minutes that we start huffing and puffing, it's closer to the 70 to 80-minute mark - but then again, which teams don't lack stamina comes the final fourth of a game?

e) It's the Championship - anything is possible

Seriously, sometimes one could think that the biggest critics on here always assume Sven would put a team full of Supermen out there every matchday.

Like already stated in other threads, it's this misconception that we'd easily walk this league that needs to vanish from people's minds. It's not like other teams don't know how to play football.

Besides, most other clubs have first-team squads that have remained virtually unchanged over the summer - see Barnsley for a good example.

So what they lack in talent (allegedly), they make up for in the routine department.

P.S.: Things will come good.

I didn't ever think we'd walk this league and called the bookies barmy at the start of the season for rating us up there with West Ham as title favourites. The debate has nothing to do with "supermen" it has to do with preparation, professionalism and sound leadership. We didn't need Supermen to beat Forest, we just didn't need to go Robbin' ourselves. As for the other setbacks a settled system and 90 minutes focused effort would have done because I didn't see any supermen among the opposition. Half measures don't work for anyone.

a) If you're only counting championship games you're right but we've had eight games this season, a genuinely challenging pre-season with lots of worthwhile matches plus a decent part of last season to put something together that resembles a team. Occasionally there's been glimmers of encouragement but absolutely no consistency.

b) There is no sign that our defence has been improved collectively. Schmiechel is a big plus, Bamba's been mostly okay but Mills has been disappointing and the full-backs, particularly Pantsil just don't impress me as the sort of full-backs needed for a promotion team.

c) If, if, if....you can play any system well or badly. The only systems that really matter are ones that work.

d) What do other teams have to do with it? We need to set our own standards. We've played well for two periods of 45 minutes as I recall. Otherwise it's not even been that long. As for which teams don't struggle in the last quarter that's simple. Confident and focused teams...teams that make a habit of winning,

e) I don't see how its possible to get back the silly points we've given away this season through our own lack of conviction. Or the daft goals we've conceded.

[MC Prussian]

I didn't ever think we'd walk this league and called the bookies barmy at the start of the season for rating us up there with West Ham as title favourites. The debate has nothing to do with "supermen" it has to do with preparation, professionalism and sound leadership. We didn't need Supermen to beat Forest, we just didn't need to go Robbin' ourselves. As for the other setbacks a settled system and 90 minutes focused effort would have done because I didn't see any supermen among the opposition. Half measures don't work for anyone.

a) If you're only counting championship games you're right but we've had eight games this season, a genuinely challenging pre-season with lots of worthwhile matches plus a decent part of last season to put something together that resembles a team. Occasionally there's been glimmers of encouragement but absolutely no consistency.

b) There is no sign that our defence has been improved collectively. Schmiechel is a big plus, Bamba's been mostly okay but Mills has been disappointing and the full-backs, particularly Pantsil just don't impress me as the sort of full-backs needed for a promotion team.

c) If, if, if....you can play any system well or badly. The only systems that really matter are ones that work.

d) What do other teams have to do with it? We need to set our own standards. We've played well for two periods of 45 minutes as I recall. Otherwise it's not even been that long. As for which teams don't struggle in the last quarter that's simple. Confident and focused teams...teams that make a habit of winning,

e) I don't see how its possible to get back the silly points we've given away this season through our own lack of conviction. Or the daft goals we've conceded.

Let the Forest game go - granted, we didn't put much effort into the game once we passed the 70-minute mark, but ultimately, we got robbed by an awful referee.

a) Yes, I was only counting the league games, because the cup match-ups have been against teams of so-called lower leagues. Our pre-season was meant to give almost everybody a chance to shine, but you forget to mention that almost every single new player arrived at a different point in time.

Johnson is still regaining match fitness, so is Ball, Beckford just joined two weeks ago, Nugent's been out injured for close to a month now, Mills was injured when he joined us for the Sweden Tour, Nugent got injured in Sweden a first time, Fernandes wasn't with us during pre-season, Pantsil and Konchesky joined shortly before the start of the season:

It's been a real patchwork and it still takes some effort to put all these individual pieces together.

Also, apart from Mallorca, Valencia and Bursaspor, the rest weren't really challenging pre-season games. The standard of football in Sweden's second division isn't the greatest, so I'd take those wins against Sirius or Vasalunds with a pinch of salt. Those games were meant to test the fitness levels, winning them was just a positive side effect.

The Real Madrid game was mainly for show, if the Spaniards had played up to their regular level, they'd have thrashed us easily.

And why do you keep on harping about last season? This squad has hardly anything in common with Leicester City FC 2010/2011.

b) I agree that our centre-back pairing hasn't played well so far, Bamba certainly better than Mills, but we will get there. Pantsil had one bad game, and suddenly, he's no longer Championship or even Premiership material (even though that's where he's come from).

But I take it the back four under MON never had a bad game or a spell of bad games, did they?

What I'll say though, is that I sometimes have the impression that our (central) defenders don't really put in a lot of effort, because they think they can always rely on one of the best, if not the best goalkeeper in this division between the sticks to save the day and the game.

So maybe that's where that complacency is stemming from.

c) Systems work, when they work - if not, they don't. Right. 4-3-3 doesn't, so 4-4-2 it is.

There's only so much you can do in terms of match preparation, once the whistle blows, it's 11 vs. 11 (plus the referee on either side). There can be a scientific element to football, with the sport benefitting from it.

But there's no recipe for success like you claim it, or else Sir Alex Ferguson would make billions through book sales. There's preparation, there's effort, there's talent and then there's chance.

You also fail to acknowledge that opposing teams have a game plan of their own. There's always two sides to the story, it's not just what we're lacking, it's what the others got on the day as well.

d) Confidence and focus is one thing, team spirit and routine the other. When you look at the teams that are currently at the top of the league, for how long have their squads been playing together with the same setup?

e) Again, we've just played 6 out of 46 regular games this season. Look around in the table, there's plenty of teams that have thrown away silly points or conceded daft goals (probably even more so than us) as well.

And there will be plenty of more teams doing just the same. We're not alone.

This is just the beginning of the season, the first few miles of a marathon. We're only three points off a playoff place, but that fact doesn't show up in your argumentation for whatever reason...

Why the need of shedding tears for the points we've dropped so far? Why not anticipating the points we can still win over the course of the remaining games?

You're a talented specialist at looking back, but, as usual, fail to look forward.

[Guest Col city fan]

a) We're only six games into the new season

b) Our defense may well learn how to defend in the next 40 games to come (but then again, it's easier to complain about their abilities than to encourage them to learn from their mistakes and to support the team)

In addition, there are many more teams in this league who've let in just as many goals as we have.

But if you want to, we can argue about the difference between conceding 7 goals or 9 goals after 6 gameweeks if necessary.

At this stage of the season, it's ludicrous trying to attach negative attributes to defenses, because most teams struggle just as much as we do in that department.

c) If Sven stuck with the 4-4-2, there would be no

complaining about the lack of wide players

d) It is not after 45 minutes that we start huffing and puffing, it's closer to the 70 to 80-minute mark - but then again, which teams don't lack stamina comes the final fourth of a game?

e) It's the Championship - anything is possible

Seriously, sometimes one could think that the biggest critics on here always assume Sven would put a team full of Supermen out there every matchday.

Like already stated in other threads, it's this misconception that we'd easily walk this league that needs to vanish from people's minds. It's not like other teams don't know how to play football.

Besides, most other clubs have first-team squads that have remained virtually unchanged over the summer - see Barnsley for a good example.

So what they lack in talent (allegedly), they make up for in the routine department.

P.S.: Things will come good.

What a lot of hot air! No-one is expecting a team of 'supermen' as you put it. What I do expect is some signs that we are improving defensively and that we look like we are going to win games by imposing some control on them.

Oh, and finally, to be entertained a bit by some good attacking football. Too much to ask? Course it's fookin not given the time Sven and Fazzer have been at the club

Stop making excuses. That's all your doing

On Saturday I'd like us to take on a Brighton team which are excelling beyond expectations and actually fookin stuff em.... It's about time

[Kitchandro]

I didn't ever think we'd walk this league and called the bookies barmy at the start of the season for rating us up there with West Ham as title favourites. The debate has nothing to do with "supermen" it has to do with preparation, professionalism and sound leadership. We didn't need Supermen to beat Forest, we just didn't need to go Robbin' ourselves. As for the other setbacks a settled system and 90 minutes focused effort would have done because I didn't see any supermen among the opposition. Half measures don't work for anyone.

a) If you're only counting championship games you're right but we've had eight games this season, a genuinely challenging pre-season with lots of worthwhile matches plus a decent part of last season to put something together that resembles a team. Occasionally there's been glimmers of encouragement but absolutely no consistency.

b) There is no sign that our defence has been improved collectively. Schmiechel is a big plus, Bamba's been mostly okay but Mills has been disappointing and the full-backs, particularly Pantsil just don't impress me as the sort of full-backs needed for a promotion team.

c) If, if, if....you can play any system well or badly. The only systems that really matter are ones that work.

d) What do other teams have to do with it? We need to set our own standards. We've played well for two periods of 45 minutes as I recall. Otherwise it's not even been that long. As for which teams don't struggle in the last quarter that's simple. Confident and focused teams...teams that make a habit of winning,

e) I don't see how its possible to get back the silly points we've given away this season through our own lack of conviction. Or the daft goals we've conceded.

[Koke]

Sorry but "Sunderland were once bottom" is a ridiculous point to make, they were bottom after 4 games, they won the league. Fantastic. I dont think anyone would advocate such a start as reasoning to think something is going well.

The problem for me isnt the league position, the results or the quality of the squad.

It's the fact we are.....

Struggling to put away poorer sides in the league and even been outplayed by a couple of them.

Our defence looks likely to concede bagloads of goals and there seems to be no intention to change it.

We have no wide players capable of playing in the 4-3-3 system when we use it and that can't change until Jan.

We are totally incapable of playing to our full ability for longer than 45 mins.

I can't sit here and just hope things will "come good" when the things that are preventing that are carrying on as normal and it seems like our management has no intention of changing it.

Even if you are right, which I dont think you are [think you being too simplistic], what is your solution? Are you suggesting change in manager? How long will you give the new bloke, 5 games? 10 games?

You can argue passionately about the 101 things wrong with Sven, but 1) we will not get anyone better in. and 2) you are vastly exaggerating our poor performances. So I will pull the plug on that position:

[Kitchandro]

Let the Forest game go - granted, we didn't put much effort into the game once we passed the 70-minute mark, but ultimately, we got robbed by an awful referee.

a) Yes, I was only counting the league games, because the cup match-ups have been against teams of so-called lower leagues. Our pre-season was meant to give almost everybody a chance to shine, but you forget to mention that almost every single new player arrived at a different point in time.

Johnson is still regaining match fitness, so is Ball, Beckford just joined two weeks ago, Nugent's been out injured for close to a month now, Mills was injured when he joined us for the Sweden Tour, Nugent got injured in Sweden a first time, Fernandes wasn't with us during pre-season, Pantsil and Konchesky joined shortly before the start of the season:

It's been a real patchwork and it still takes some effort to put all these individual pieces together.

Also, apart from Mallorca, Valencia and Bursaspor, the rest weren't really challenging pre-season games. The standard of football in Sweden's second division isn't the greatest, so I'd take those wins against Sirius or Vasalunds with a pinch of salt. Those games were meant to test the fitness levels, winning them was just a positive side effect.

The Real Madrid game was mainly for show, if the Spaniards had played up to their regular level, they'd have thrashed us easily.

And why do you keep on harping about last season? This squad has hardly anything in common with Leicester City FC 2010/2011.

b) I agree that our centre-back pairing hasn't played well so far, Bamba certainly better than Mills, but we will get there. Pantsil had one bad game, and suddenly, he's no longer Championship or even Premiership material (even though that's where he's come from).

But I take it the back four under MON never had a bad game or a spell of bad games, did they?

What I'll say though, is that I sometimes have the impression that our (central) defenders don't really put in a lot of effort, because they think they can always rely on one of the best, if not the best goalkeeper in this division between the sticks to save the day and the game.

So maybe that's where that complacency is stemming from.

c) Systems work, when they work - if not, they don't. Right. 4-3-3 doesn't, so 4-4-2 it is.

There's only so much you can do in terms of match preparation, once the whistle blows, it's 11 vs. 11 (plus the referee on either side). There can be a scientific element to football, with the sport benefitting from it.

But there's no recipe for success like you claim it, or else Sir Alex Ferguson would make billions through book sales. There's preparation, there's effort, there's talent and then there's chance.

You also fail to acknowledge that opposing teams have a game plan of their own. There's always two sides to the story, it's not just what we're lacking, it's what the others got on the day as well.

d) Confidence and focus is one thing, team spirit and routine the other. When you look at the teams that are currently at the top of the league, for how long have their squads been playing together with the same setup?

e) Again, we've just played 6 out of 46 regular games this season. Look around in the table, there's plenty of teams that have thrown away silly points or conceded daft goals (probably even more so than us) as well.

And there will be plenty of more teams doing just the same. We're not alone.

This is just the beginning of the season, the first few miles of a marathon. We're only three points off a playoff place, but that fact doesn't show up in your argumentation for whatever reason...

Why the need of shedding tears for the points we've dropped so far? Why not anticipating the points we can still win over the course of the remaining games?

You're a talented specialist at looking back, but, as usual, fail to look forward.

You're just making excuses and splitting hairs.

I'm sure you justify that by saying that you are being positive, but this blind optimism thing gets very tedious.

You don't actually make any real arguments against what is being said, you're just making excuses for why we are not doing well.

a) What's your point about pre-season? It's irrelevent, you are ignoring the simple facts that Sven has been here for 10 months and has been allowed to spend twice as much as almost everyone in the league. He's had a pre-season, which he had a hand in organising, he's had a large part of last season, and he's had all summer to buy players. If we are going to play crap on the whole for the first 10 league games (and the signs suggest that we will) then he should have done things differently. If this meant buying less players so be it. If this meant buying different players so be it. If this meant preparing for this season in January and and not June then so be it (hence why we are harping on about last season). Sven is liable for the destiny of this team just as any other manager that has been in charge of a Club for a significant length of time.

b) Why are you bringing up MON's team? Because his teams had some bad games that excuses our current defence's inability to have a convincing performance? And, if people like you are going to bring up MON's poor start as a defence for Sven at every opportunity I'd like to point out that we only scraped the play-offs that season. Doing that will not be an acceptable performance from Sven this season, if he doesn't take us up automatically then he's underachieved.

C) Your point here is absolute nonsense. Why are you sidestepping the obvious issue - that we all know what formation we should be playing, the evidence that it was the right system was as plain as a pikestaff in the preceding game, yet Sven makes the tactically inept decision to pick the wrong formation at Barnsley? Argue that he didn't make himself look really clueless when he made this decision, can you? YES the opposition have a game plan but with a team full of nobodies and a manager like Keith Hill - why is their game plan working as well, and arguably better than ours? Why isn't our world renowned manager winning the battle of preparation against the employees of Barnsley FC? Why did Brian McDermott and Keith Millen's game plans work better than Svens? Why did they manage their team better than Sven did ours, in spite of the fact we have spent loads more money than either? It's not 'chance'.

d) Another excuse. Barnsley have better team spirit than us. Great. We'll let Sven off though, it's not his job to make a tight unit out of the players he's got and bond them. And again, he's been here 10 months with 2 transfer windows (and yes despite what some people say you can actually purchase good players in January) so his team should have been formed into a unit by now.

e) So because you are positive the future is all rosy. I don't care that things might pick up, I might win the lottery next week, but the likelihood is that I won't. And from watching our team so far, I'd say the likelihood is that we won't improve quick enough and to the extent required to be an automatic promotion team.

I still think Sven should be given until the end of the season. But he has no excuses if things go wrong. It matters not if some people thought we would walk the league, because no one is complaining that we aren't. We are complaining because we are not beating poor teams and most of all because we are playing very bad football against them, in an attacking and defensive sense, as well as a unit. Results being average/poor at this stage of the season might be excused if we were just getting unlucky,, but we are, on the whole, playing very poorly and showing very little promise.

And we don't tire after 70-80 minutes, we just play crap for the majority of the game.

Coventry - very poor going forward, solid enough in defence. Very little decent football in the whole of the match, definitely not convincing.

Reading - No cutting edge whatsoever, 2 sloppy goals (fine, I'll put the second one down to tiredness but the point is we played poorly throughout the match, first half especially).

Bristol - awful display in most ways, certainly not a case of tiring late on.

Forest - the only match that gives your point any validity, we were good until 70 minutes and then we surrendered the initiative (and were robbed).

Southampton - decent in the first half, changed the system at half time, shocking in the second half.

Barnsley - shocking first half, poor second.

So no, we don't just tire after 70-80 minutes, in fact our first halves are generally worse than the second halves.

As you can tell I don't agree with much of your post at all.