Anyone would think we lost 10-0

[Kitchandro]

Even if you are right, which I dont think you are [think you being too simplistic], what is your solution? Are you suggesting change in manager? How long will you give the new bloke, 5 games? 10 games?

You can argue passionately about the 101 things wrong with Sven, but 1) we will not get anyone better in. and 2) you are vastly exaggerating our poor performances. So I will pull the plug on that position:

He's certainly not, we have been dreadful at least half time.

[Koke]

He's certainly not, we have been dreadful at least half time.

We clearly haven't, but that's subjective anyway. Dreadful is what I'd call this time last year under Paolo Sousa. At the moment we are 10th in the league, not 18th. We have been average to poor, and there's definitely a need for much improvement but we're not in the disastrous situation that people are making it out to be.

[Kitchandro]

We clearly haven't, but that's subjective anyway. Dreadful is what I'd call this time last year under Paolo Sousa. At the moment we are 10th in the league, not 18th. We have been average to poor, and there's definitely a need for much improvement but we're not in the disastrous situation that people are making it out to be.

Well you can use whatever words you like, but I don't think anyone is making out that we are in relegation fodder like we were under Sousa.

Performances are still a cause for concern though and I think that's all the 'negative' people are saying.

[Finnegan]

Of course performances are a cause for concern. We've signed pretty much an entirely new first team, were people expecting them all to just jump right in, bond and gel instantly? Start playing like a well-oiled unit right away?

Jesus some people are thick.

If we're still not firing and we're out of touch by Christmas then, fair enough, questions seriously need to be asked about how we spend the money and who's allowed to do so (and whose money it is.) But moaning in September because we've not made a dream start?

Fucking hell, get some perspective.

[MC Prussian]

What a lot of hot air! No-one is expecting a team of 'supermen' as you put it. What I do expect is some signs that we are improving defensively and that we look like we are going to win games by imposing some control on them.

Oh, and finally, to be entertained a bit by some good attacking football. Too much to ask? Course it's fookin not given the time Sven and Fazzer have been at the club

Stop making excuses. That's all your doing

On Saturday I'd like us to take on a Brighton team which are excelling beyond expectations and actually fookin stuff em.... It's about time

Oh yes, there's enough of those critics that believe we have the god-given right to walk this league (West Ham excluded). The same people who expect us to thrash every other team in this league (West Ham excluded).

The people saying we've got to win every game by a difference of three goals. The people saying we've got to "control" the opposing team.

Tell you what, control only goes this far. Every game is a give and take, with possession around the 50 percent mark for both teams in almost every single game.

The gap in quality isn't that big (as demonstrated by the previous upsets this season so far).

No wonder these people react aggressively and overly negative when things don't go the perfect way they've been expecting.

Hence my "Supermen" comparison.

You won't get every single player to give it their best each game, because there's different reasons for not performing up to standard.

If you want entertaining football, you might as well go and become a Manchester City, Manchester United, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Borussia Dortmund oder Gayern Munich fan.

But even those teams can't promise entertaining football forever.

We've hardly ever played entertaining football (not even under Martin O'Neill!) because entertaining football doesn't get you anywhere in this division - do you remember the Sousa spell?

Things will come good with this newly-formed Leicester City squad, but I wish some people would stop slagging off the team just because we're not in the Top 6 after only 6 games played.

Like I've already mentioned, I'd rather have us stutter at the beginning of the season than seeing us fade away comes April/May.

[MC Prussian]

You're just making excuses and splitting hairs.

I'm sure you justify that by saying that you are being positive, but this blind optimism thing gets very tedious.

You don't actually make any real arguments against what is being said, you're just making excuses for why we are not doing well.

a) What's your point about pre-season? It's irrelevent, you are ignoring the simple facts that Sven has been here for 10 months and has been allowed to spend twice as much as almost everyone in the league. He's had a pre-season, which he had a hand in organising, he's had a large part of last season, and he's had all summer to buy players. If we are going to play crap on the whole for the first 10 league games (and the signs suggest that we will) then he should have done things differently. If this meant buying less players so be it. If this meant buying different players so be it. If this meant preparing for this season in January and and not June then so be it (hence why we are harping on about last season). Sven is liable for the destiny of this team just as any other manager that has been in charge of a Club for a significant length of time.

b) Why are you bringing up MON's team? Because his teams had some bad games that excuses our current defence's inability to have a convincing performance? And, if people like you are going to bring up MON's poor start as a defence for Sven at every opportunity I'd like to point out that we only scraped the play-offs that season. Doing that will not be an acceptable performance from Sven this season, if he doesn't take us up automatically then he's underachieved.

C) Your point here is absolute nonsense. Why are you sidestepping the obvious issue - that we all know what formation we should be playing, the evidence that it was the right system was as plain as a pikestaff in the preceding game, yet Sven makes the tactically inept decision to pick the wrong formation at Barnsley? Argue that he didn't make himself look really clueless when he made this decision, can you? YES the opposition have a game plan but with a team full of nobodies and a manager like Keith Hill - why is their game plan working as well, and arguably better than ours? Why isn't our world renowned manager winning the battle of preparation against the employees of Barnsley FC? Why did Brian McDermott and Keith Millen's game plans work better than Svens? Why did they manage their team better than Sven did ours, in spite of the fact we have spent loads more money than either? It's not 'chance'.

d) Another excuse. Barnsley have better team spirit than us. Great. We'll let Sven off though, it's not his job to make a tight unit out of the players he's got and bond them. And again, he's been here 10 months with 2 transfer windows (and yes despite what some people say you can actually purchase good players in January) so his team should have been formed into a unit by now.

e) So because you are positive the future is all rosy. I don't care that things might pick up, I might win the lottery next week, but the likelihood is that I won't. And from watching our team so far, I'd say the likelihood is that we won't improve quick enough and to the extent required to be an automatic promotion team.

I still think Sven should be given until the end of the season. But he has no excuses if things go wrong. It matters not if some people thought we would walk the league, because no one is complaining that we aren't. We are complaining because we are not beating poor teams and most of all because we are playing very bad football against them, in an attacking and defensive sense, as well as a unit. Results being average/poor at this stage of the season might be excused if we were just getting unlucky,, but we are, on the whole, playing very poorly and showing very little promise.

And we don't tire after 70-80 minutes, we just play crap for the majority of the game.

Coventry - very poor going forward, solid enough in defence. Very little decent football in the whole of the match, definitely not convincing.

Reading - No cutting edge whatsoever, 2 sloppy goals (fine, I'll put the second one down to tiredness but the point is we played poorly throughout the match, first half especially).

Bristol - awful display in most ways, certainly not a case of tiring late on.

Forest - the only match that gives your point any validity, we were good until 70 minutes and then we surrendered the initiative (and were robbed).

Southampton - decent in the first half, changed the system at half time, shocking in the second half.

Barnsley - shocking first half, poor second.

So no, we don't just tire after 70-80 minutes, in fact our first halves are generally worse than the second halves.

As you can tell I don't agree with much of your post at all.

I don't think I'm making excuses at all. I'm well aware of critical of Sven's current tactical mishaps and our defense which is not playing the way it should.

Calling me a blind optimist is an overstatement. The only difference is that I don't paint everything in black like you for instance.

I made my points clear earlier in this thread, responding to MattP's post. As for Thracian, there's always a counter-argument for his own theories, because he loves to see his side of the coin only.

a) We're the only team (Derby excluded) who have signed about a dozen new players in the summer, more than half of which are part of the new starting eleven. These players have come in at different points in time, and it takes them a different amount of time to acclimatize and warming up to the others.

Injuries and the lack of fitness are doing their own job.

Where do you take your "Sven's got 10 games" from? Why ten games? Why do I have the impression you've already come to the conclusion that we will play bad in the next four games just so you can go and claim "I've told you"?

What kind of an attitude is that? Why so negative? Why this dislike for everything the team, the management and the owners have done so far? We're finding ourselves in a relatively comfortable situation and we're building on that with an almost completely new squad. But that's a process, not a recipe that hits off instantly (on the pitch).

Since when do other clubs field squads with complete nobodies? Why are you talking down other teams on purpose? Are you again seriously suggesting we should be beating every team in this league (bar West Ham) just... because? No wonder you're so bitter about things right now.

This isn't a game on FM where you can quit and restart when things don't go the way you want it. This is real-life football, with many different components playing into the scenario (on a matchday).

b) I brought up MON because of Thracian's positive dream post in the corresponding thread.

c) Every manager will make mistakes, no matter how long they've been coaching teams - be it in this league, or any other. No manager is infallible.

McDermott's been with Reading for close to two years now and look where the Berkshire club is finding itself at the moment. All down to the lack of quality players? Or isn't it rather a lack of confidence?

You expect Sven to do wonders and because he fails at times, it's good enough for you (and others) to slate him whenever possible. We beat Nigel Adkins' side 3-2, he's a manager with a rather big pedigree in the lower leagues (below the Premier League), but that win had nothing to do with chance?

Did we really deserve to draw against F*3st or wasn't it rather down to the element of chance once again? Who'd have thought the referee would interfere the way he did in the last twenty minutes?

d) You're obviously deliberately missing my point entirely about team spirit and routine. Just like Thracian, you're harping on about Sven being here for close to eleven months now, this being his team.

Well, guess what? It's an almost entirely different team compared to last season's. The Leicester City FC of 2011/2012 has hardly anything in common with the previous season's squad.

And that for good reason. We needed to build a new core, start a new approach, which is a daring experiment. So far, results-wise, it has paid off to a certain extent. But we won't be living up to the full potential this early anyway.

e) Excuse me, but what does being positive (or rather realistic) have to be so bad? It's certainly a healthier approach than being as destructive as you and your peers.

Because I hardly get the impression you want to see getting better under the current regime, but simply want to see them all fail miserably so you can have your one and only worthwile day.

If you "don't care if things might pick up", then I feel nothing but sorry for you. Besides, it's got nothing to do with playing the lottery, that's one poor comparison. Those are completely different and much worse odds!

You want us to change things around "quickly". They won't. But they will change around.

Good to see you're giving SGE until the end of the season. Switching managers left and right don't do any good to the stability of a football club in the long run.

There's a couple of promising things about this squad. Schmeichel, Fernandes, Nugent, Beckford. King just scored again.

Footballers go through ups and downs, but once this team is completely in sync, it's going to be one heck of a ride.

[marbelladave]

Some fascinating arguments, though some are a bit long, even by my standards.....

Although I clearly see both sides of this debate and my views do swing from optimist to pessimist almost by the day, I have to say that in general I am pretty pessimistic and disapointed with our performances so far.

I am not going to repeat all the arguments, good though many of them are, for me there are two factors that, above all else, land me firmly in the pessimist camp. They are -

1) Resources. We have a squad of what I think are very decent players, a bit unbalance maybe, but good enough to be challenging for promotion. I base this on the performance of the players before this season. Just one example, (there are plenty of others) Mills was a dominant no nonsense center back last season, he should the dominant figure in our defense. But he is not, and Pantsil, Konchesky, Fernandez, Danns etc are much the same.

For the quality of the players we have our performances are nothing like good enough.

2) Organisation. There is no sign that as a team we are improving our performance. Some recent spells of decent play have been down to individual players, Danns, Fernandez and Nugent in the main, showing some of their quality to get us points against Southampton and Forest. I see no sign of improvement in our setup, shape or organisation from match to match, that is what I find most worrying.

[Thracian]

Let the Forest game go - granted, we didn't put much effort into the game once we passed the 70-minute mark, but ultimately, we got robbed by an awful referee.

a) Yes, I was only counting the league games, because the cup match-ups have been against teams of so-called lower leagues. Our pre-season was meant to give almost everybody a chance to shine, but you forget to mention that almost every single new player arrived at a different point in time.

Johnson is still regaining match fitness, so is Ball, Beckford just joined two weeks ago, Nugent's been out injured for close to a month now, Mills was injured when he joined us for the Sweden Tour, Nugent got injured in Sweden a first time, Fernandes wasn't with us during pre-season, Pantsil and Konchesky joined shortly before the start of the season:

It's been a real patchwork and it still takes some effort to put all these individual pieces together.

Also, apart from Mallorca, Valencia and Bursaspor, the rest weren't really challenging pre-season games. The standard of football in Sweden's second division isn't the greatest, so I'd take those wins against Sirius or Vasalunds with a pinch of salt. Those games were meant to test the fitness levels, winning them was just a positive side effect.

The Real Madrid game was mainly for show, if the Spaniards had played up to their regular level, they'd have thrashed us easily.

And why do you keep on harping about last season? This squad has hardly anything in common with Leicester City FC 2010/2011.

b) I agree that our centre-back pairing hasn't played well so far, Bamba certainly better than Mills, but we will get there. Pantsil had one bad game, and suddenly, he's no longer Championship or even Premiership material (even though that's where he's come from).

But I take it the back four under MON never had a bad game or a spell of bad games, did they?

What I'll say though, is that I sometimes have the impression that our (central) defenders don't really put in a lot of effort, because they think they can always rely on one of the best, if not the best goalkeeper in this division between the sticks to save the day and the game.

So maybe that's where that complacency is stemming from.

c) Systems work, when they work - if not, they don't. Right. 4-3-3 doesn't, so 4-4-2 it is.

There's only so much you can do in terms of match preparation, once the whistle blows, it's 11 vs. 11 (plus the referee on either side). There can be a scientific element to football, with the sport benefitting from it.

But there's no recipe for success like you claim it, or else Sir Alex Ferguson would make billions through book sales. There's preparation, there's effort, there's talent and then there's chance.

You also fail to acknowledge that opposing teams have a game plan of their own. There's always two sides to the story, it's not just what we're lacking, it's what the others got on the day as well.

d) Confidence and focus is one thing, team spirit and routine the other. When you look at the teams that are currently at the top of the league, for how long have their squads been playing together with the same setup?

e) Again, we've just played 6 out of 46 regular games this season. Look around in the table, there's plenty of teams that have thrown away silly points or conceded daft goals (probably even more so than us) as well.

And there will be plenty of more teams doing just the same. We're not alone.

This is just the beginning of the season, the first few miles of a marathon. We're only three points off a playoff place, but that fact doesn't show up in your argumentation for whatever reason...

Why the need of shedding tears for the points we've dropped so far? Why not anticipating the points we can still win over the course of the remaining games?

You're a talented specialist at looking back, but, as usual, fail to look forward.

I've tried to get this club looking forward for years in a footballing sense. At long last we have owners who seem to be looking forward but the handicap we've given ourselves with our poor start and the factors that have inevitably contributed to that start, are real. The potential for points in the future is just that, potential. All and sundry theorised about how we could go on this run and that from last Christmas but it was all misguided rhetoric as became clear at the time with the approach we took.

Put simply the team we have at the moment has far too many weaknesses to string a long run of victories together and certain things - widely mentioned by various posters - have to change. Sven can change em or he can ignore them and end up needing to be replaced. It's that simple.

You actually weaken your own argument by talking of a play-off place. Our target this season was a top-two finish for automatic promotion and we have managed to fall well behind that ideal even in the first month! We are also trailing in the goals difference aspect. Details like that can matter but most important there are tactical/philosophical/preparatory and personnel reasons for our underperformance that have to be sorted .

You mention Ferguson not having a recipe for success but I'll take his approach to winning trophies any time, I'd take his approach to your 11 versus 11 comment and I happily take the royalties from his book sales as well were he to be so generous!

[MC Prussian]

I've tried to get this club looking forward for years in a footballing sense. At long last we have owners who seem to be looking forward but the handicap we've given ourselves with our poor start and the factors that have inevitably contributed to that start, are real. The potential for points in the future is just that, potential. All and sundry theorised about how we could go on this run and that from last Christmas but it was all misguided rhetoric as became clear at the time with the approach we took.

Put simply the team we have at the moment has far too many weaknesses to string a long run of victories together and certain things - widely mentioned by various posters - have to change. Sven can change em or he can ignore them and end up needing to be replaced. It's that simple.

You actually weaken your own argument by talking of a play-off place. Our target this season was a top-two finish for automatic promotion and we have managed to fall well behind that ideal even in the first month! We are also trailing in the goals difference aspect. Details like that can matter but most important there are tactical/philosophical/preparatory and personnel reasons for our underperformance that have to be sorted .

You mention Ferguson not having a recipe for success but I'll take his approach to winning trophies any time, I'd take his approach to your 11 versus 11 comment and I happily take the royalties from his book sales as well were he to be so generous!

I'd like to dig out this comment of yours comes the end of the season. Goal difference can decide over who's getting promoted and who's not, in the end, it's all about the total points amassed.

We're not "well behind", we're just seven points off second after a mere six games played and I doubt Brighton and Southampton will be able so continue their current run for too long.

Also, even great domestic managers like Ferguson Sr. can only do so much before or during a match - but of course, Manchester United's resources and squad are lightyears ahead of ours. Mainly because Ferguson was given the time he needed to build a team according to his vision.

And he still hasn't lost neither vision nor the appetite.

[accessory]

Oh yes, there's enough of those critics that believe we have the god-given right to walk this league (West Ham excluded). The same people who expect us to thrash every other team in this league (West Ham excluded).

The people saying we've got to win every game by a difference of three goals. The people saying we've got to "control" the opposing team.

Winning games would be a start. The ease with which some of the division's weaker sides have outplayed us doesn't suggest we'll be well prepared for the challenges which lie ahead in the coming weeks.

Tell you what, control only goes this far. Every game is a give and take, with possession around the 50 percent mark for both teams in almost every single game.

The gap in quality isn't that big (as demonstrated by the previous upsets this season so far).

Most teams, City included, have a chronic inability to retain possession and therefore to build any rhythm. In our case it's often because certain players try to play defence-splitting 50-yard passes (usually to no effect) rather than the simple ones to midfield colleagues. The manager knows as we do who the culprits are, yet allows them to pull the same tricks every week. That shouldn't be why we pay him more in a week than most City fans earn in a year.

No wonder these people react aggressively and overly negative when things don't go the perfect way they've been expecting. Hence my "Supermen" comparison.

With the money that fans (at least those of us who go to games) pay, we expect a better return on our investment than we've seen to date. After all, the salary cheques being handed out each month (to players as well as the manager) aren't exactly modest, are they?

You won't get every single player to give it their best each game, because there's different reasons for not performing up to standard.

No, but with the quality and depth of our squad it's not unreasonable to expect enough of them to outperform their opponents on a reasonably frequent basis - certainly more frequent than 2 halves out of 12 to date.

If you want entertaining football, you might as well go and become a Manchester City, Manchester United, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Borussia Dortmund oder Gayern Munich fan. But even those teams can't promise entertaining football forever. We've hardly ever played entertaining football (not even under Martin O'Neill!) because entertaining football doesn't get you anywhere in this division - do you remember the Sousa spell?

I remember being impressed by the passing, attacking football that Norwich and Swansea (teams with far fewer resources than us) played last season. What happened to them?

Things will come good with this newly-formed Leicester City squad, but I wish some people would stop slagging off the team just because we're not in the Top 6 after only 6 games played. Like I've already mentioned, I'd rather have us stutter at the beginning of the season than seeing us fade away comes April/May.

If there were signs of a structured, coherent, effective game plan gradually emerging from game to game, many of us would accept the slow start. But there isn't, and we don't. The manager is uncertain about his best team and the formation in which it should play. That uncertainty is filtering through to the players and affecting their performance. Until Sven shows signs of getting to grips with the demands of this league, any confidence in his future fortunes will continue to be misplaced.

[Fox92]

I don't buy this gel time anymore. Derby have signed more players than us (haven't they?), and they started well, even beating the likes of Birmingham and Blackpool. I used to talk about getting the team to gel, but, I feel as if its (maybe) an excuse which many people use.

The fans have invested heavily into watching Leicester City. I know results won't come fast, for example, we won't win every match, but the team just don't show any passion (only a number of players do). Theres no effort from the likes of Gallagher all the time, and its not like we knock it around and create very, very good chances all the time. People are saying don't moan because we are not in the top 6, ok, but I'd agree if we actually looked like a team who are good enough to go up. Out of all the games I've been too, I think I've only seen 2 good 45 minutes; Nottingham Forest first half and Southampton first half.

When you looked at Norwich City last season, the team were all lower league players, they didn't have big names like Beckford, but they all worked hard for each other. I just don't see it. Maybe its the manager, who knows? I know its only, what, six games, but six becomes seven, seven becomes eight and so on, and what about if we are still looking poor? I agree managers arn't given enough time, but its not just rresults that are questionned, its motivation, tactics and signings.

[cc_star]

re: time to gel

Good players know where other good players on the pitch will be, gelling time is nothing but an excuse

Plenty of other clubs have gone through changes and success has continued rather than restarted, all takes is good & clear management & coaching

We've been woeful with 433 & pretty sharp with a diamond 442, when Sven drops this fascination with something that blatantly isn't working for us we'll push on, but until then I can see us winning one, losing one & drawing one a recipe for 8th-12th, coincidently right where we are.

Fingers crossed for a diamond against B'ton, we'll have to be at our best for the whole 90 though & I'm sure we will be as its time to kick-on upwards

[MC Prussian]

I don't buy this gel time anymore. Derby have signed more players than us (haven't they?), and they started well, even beating the likes of Birmingham and Blackpool. I used to talk about getting the team to gel, but, I feel as if its (maybe) an excuse which many people use.

The fans have invested heavily into watching Leicester City. I know results won't come fast, for example, we won't win every match, but the team just don't show any passion (only a number of players do). Theres no effort from the likes of Gallagher all the time, and its not like we knock it around and create very, very good chances all the time. People are saying don't moan because we are not in the top 6, ok, but I'd agree if we actually looked like a team who are good enough to go up. Out of all the games I've been too, I think I've only seen 2 good 45 minutes; Nottingham Forest first half and Southampton first half.

When you looked at Norwich City last season, the team were all lower league players, they didn't have big names like Beckford, but they all worked hard for each other. I just don't see it. Maybe its the manager, who knows? I know its only, what, six games, but six becomes seven, seven becomes eight and so on, and what about if we are still looking poor? I agree managers arn't given enough time, but its not just rresults that are questionned, its motivation, tactics and signings.

Derby have since then lost twice, the last game against Coventry.

What do you mean by "the fans have invested heavily"? In what ways, in other ways than usually? Other than purchasing the regular season ticket, the odd shirt, going to away matches and paying way too much money for the stuff in the concourse?

Look, none of us likes it when our team plays badly. But a change in attitude doesn't come in overnight, the changes don't show up instantly. It's this expectation of instant success that I don't get.

The presumption that all of our players have to play a 100% each game and that anything less is unacceptable. That's impossible because of the various influences on a player before or during a game.

Regardless of how much money you spend, English football is still a game of two halves, 11 vs. 11, being obstructed by a referee.

Norwich did well in League One and were able to take that attitude with them into the Championship.

Now that they've been promoted, they're having a terrible time in the Premier League. Luck is no longer with them.

Good times come and go - ours are just around the corner.

[MC Prussian]

Winning games would be a start. The ease with which some of the division's weaker sides have outplayed us doesn't suggest we'll be well prepared for the challenges which lie ahead in the coming weeks.

Most teams, City included, have a chronic inability to retain possession and therefore to build any rhythm. In our case it's often because certain players try to play defence-splitting 50-yard passes (usually to no effect) rather than the simple ones to midfield colleagues. The manager knows as we do who the culprits are, yet allows them to pull the same tricks every week. That shouldn't be why we pay him more in a week than most City fans earn in a year.

With the money that fans (at least those of us who go to games) pay, we expect a better return on our investment than we've seen to date. After all, the salary cheques being handed out each month (to players as well as the manager) aren't exactly modest, are they?

No, but with the quality and depth of our squad it's not unreasonable to expect enough of them to outperform their opponents on a reasonably frequent basis - certainly more frequent than 2 halves out of 12 to date.

I remember being impressed by the passing, attacking football that Norwich and Swansea (teams with far fewer resources than us) played last season. What happened to them?

If there were signs of a structured, coherent, effective game plan gradually emerging from game to game, many of us would accept the slow start. But there isn't, and we don't. The manager is uncertain about his best team and the formation in which it should play. That uncertainty is filtering through to the players and affecting their performance. Until Sven shows signs of getting to grips with the demands of this league, any confidence in his future fortunes will continue to be misplaced.

We have already won games in this league and there is no reason why we won't win some more.

Besides, your, mine or any other fan's money is peanuts compared to the money poured into the club by the new consortium. If you think that just because you pay money to see your team play you have a god-given right to criticise the club to death, you're sadly mistaken.

You have no power, no say in how this club is run. Fans merely show up because they'd like to be entertained and because they identify with the institution.

In your case, you show up expecting/demanding a good show week in, week out. It's only logical that with your mindset, you'll be more disappointed than the regular match-goer.

You, as a fan, demand too much and give little in return.

As for Norwich and Swansea, playing attractive football in the Championship is one thing.

When you look at how they and QPR are doing in the Premier League this season, then I say that was all show for nothing.

If you want to build a sustainable squad that can last in the highest league of English football, instant success on the day is not the answer.

And again, we're just 6 games into a new season with a first team that consists of more than 50 percent entirely new players.

You won't find many teams in England (or the world for that matter) who're going through the same transformation process than we do.

It'll come together. Patience is a virtue. It's about time you demonstrated some.

[Thracian]

Great post, Ric.

We're in a good position. Marbelladave's right that the football isn't good, but that ought to come with time.

Ric's echoed in part what various people have said - that Sven needs to make specific changes both to personnel and to our style of play. If he does that the performances will, theoretically, improve and no-one will be unhappy. But if he doesn't there's no way this team, playing this way, will finish in the top two. Our only chance would be a play-off place.

Why am I so sure? Because, while, even at full-strength, we'll have an excellent pair of strikers, those stikers wll depend on the right kind of supply and I just don't see that coming from what we're using on the flanks right now, either offensively or defensively. There's not even the suggestion that winger/full-back partnerships are being developed on either flank, let alone both.

And who in the whole squad offers consistent delivery of passes into the box, especially from wide positions? No-one. Right now, especially with Gallagher looking so laboured, it is far too easy for opposition managers to strangle the source of supply to our strikers. And with Nugent being out for at least a couple of games yet, that problem may well be exaggerated.

[Thracian]

I'd like to dig out this comment of yours comes the end of the season. Goal difference can decide over who's getting promoted and who's not, in the end, it's all about the total points amassed.

We're not "well behind", we're just seven points off second after a mere six games played and I doubt Brighton and Southampton will be able so continue their current run for too long.

Also, even great domestic managers like Ferguson Sr. can only do so much before or during a match - but of course, Manchester United's resources and squad are lightyears ahead of ours. Mainly because Ferguson was given the time he needed to build a team according to his vision.

And he still hasn't lost neither vision nor the appetite.

Seven points? How many more do you want to lose on the top two in a month? And with the managerial ability at Southampton and Brighton I can well see them maintaining their pace. Southampton had a wonderful run before their defeat by us. Please don't say managers can only do so much. Good managers have a major influence on how their teams play. Ferguson, Revie, Shankly, Keegan at Newcastle, Nicholson at Spurs - their teams had their manager's philosophical fingerprints all over them.

[MC Prussian]

Ric's echoed in part what various people have said - that Sven needs to make specific changes both to personnel and to our style of play. If he does that the performances will, theoretically, improve and no-one will be unhappy. But if he doesn't there's no way this team, playing this way, will finish in the top two. Our only chance would be a play-off place.

Why am I so sure? Because, while, even at full-strength, we'll have an excellent pair of strikers, those stikers wll depend on the right kind of supply and I just don't see that coming from what we're using on the flanks right now, either offensively or defensively. There's not even the suggestion that winger/full-back partnerships are being developed on either flank, let alone both.

And who in the whole squad offers consistent delivery of passes into the box, especially from wide positions? No-one. Right now, especially with Gallagher looking so laboured, it is far too easy for opposition managers to strangle the source of supply to our strikers. And with Nugent being out for at least a couple of games yet, that problem may well be exaggerated.

Tony, just let it roll.

P.S.: How's your panic button on your keyboard? Replaced it yet with a new one?

[MC Prussian]

Seven points? How many more do you want to lose on the top two in a month? And with the managerial ability at Southampton and Brighton I can well see them maintaining their pace. Southampton had a wonderful run before their defeat by us. Please don't say managers can only do so much. Good managers have a major influence on how their teams play. Ferguson, Revie, Shankly, Keegan at Newcastle, Nicholson at Spurs - their teams had their manager's philosophical fingerprints all over them.

As little as possible, if feasible, even gain points as the season progresses. We will gain points because Brighton's and Southampton's run won't continue forever.

Southampton's good start to the season came to an end - thanks to us. Brighton struggled against a resilient (yet harmless) Bristol City side and only won the game towards the end of the match.

They'll drop points for sure.

It's in the nature of football. You should know better.

[Guest MattP]

We clearly haven't, but that's subjective anyway. Dreadful is what I'd call this time last year under Paolo Sousa. At the moment we are 10th in the league, not 18th.

If we had performed like this last season with run of fixtures we started with, we would probably be in the same position. We have a very easy start this year which is a big concern. The fixtures get a lot harder from now until Xmas.

[Guest MattP]

Seven points? How many more do you want to lose on the top two in a month?

This is very correct, 7 points down in just 6 games is actually quite significant, even more so when we have played one team in the top half of the division.

No one is panicking yet, but we issues that need addressing very quickly, not going back through the whole lot but someone had it spot on when they the gelling thing is no excuse as the mistakes we are making are coming from individual errors and lack of concentration rather than anything to go with team cohesion.

[reynard]

We have already won games in this league and there is no reason why we won't win some more.

.

As for Norwich and Swansea, playing attractive football in the Championship is one thing.

When you look at how they and QPR are doing in the Premier League this season, then I say that was all show for nothing.

If you want to build a sustainable squad that can last in the highest league of English football, instant success on the day is not the answer.

And again, we're just 6 games into a new season with a first team that consists of more than 50 percent entirely new players.

You won't find many teams in England (or the world for that matter) who're going through the same transformation process than we do.

It'll come together. Patience is a virtue. It's about time you demonstrated some.

So we're only 6 games into the season so we're still finding our feet but Qpr, Swansea and Norwich are a massive 4 games into their season and it sounds like you're already prepared to write them off. Aren't QPR currently above Arsenal?

I'm pretty sure of one thing playing to the standard we are now we will not be promoted. Yes we're just six games in but we can't allow too many more to slip by without picking up a serious level of points or we will be playing catch up from too far behind. So far I'm not that convinced we have the playing personnel or the formation with which to do this.

I agree with a lot of what you say but history consistently shows that after about 10/12 matches those teams at the bottom generally stay there and those at the top likewise. In my opinion we need to be no further than 6 points off the top two at the end of twelve matches. Let's see what the next six bring and hope for a big improvement.

[MC Prussian]

So we're only 6 games into the season so we're still finding our feet but Qpr, Swansea and Norwich are a massive 4 games into their season and it sounds like you're already prepared to write them off. Aren't QPR currently above Arsenal?

I'm pretty sure of one thing playing to the standard we are now we will not be promoted. Yes we're just six games in but we can't allow too many more to slip by without picking up a serious level of points or we will be playing catch up from too far behind. So far I'm not that convinced we have the playing personnel or the formation with which to do this.

I agree with a lot of what you say but history consistently shows that after about 10/12 matches those teams at the bottom generally stay there and those at the top likewise. In my opinion we need to be no further than 6 points off the top two at the end of twelve matches. Let's see what the next six bring and hope for a big improvement.

A sensible post.

I was only mentioning Swansea, Norwich and QPR because our resident accessory brought them up when he talked about how impressed he was seeing them play attractive football and winning.

That attractive football has propelled them to the Premier League, but as it seems, they're not coping well. Norwich have a virtually unchanged team, QPR have just brought in new players once they had their financial situation solved and Swansea defend well, but can't score.

What I meant to say is you can look at these team's success by getting promoted to the Premier League, but the run stops at one point. And another begins.

I'm positive we will string a series of results together that will see us moving up the ranks.

Let's give it another handful of games before we start hitting the panic button, shall we?

[James.]

A sensible post.

I was only mentioning Swansea, Norwich and QPR because our resident accessory brought them up when he talked about how impressed he was seeing them play attractive football and winning.

That attractive football has propelled them to the Premier League, but as it seems, they're not coping well. Norwich have a virtually unchanged team, QPR have just brought in new players once they had their financial situation solved and Swansea defend well, but can't score.

What I meant to say is you can look at these team's success by getting promoted to the Premier League, but the run stops at one point. And another begins.

I'm positive we will string a series of results together that will see us moving up the ranks.

Let's give it another handful of games before we start hitting the panic button, shall we?

At least the more critical posters are basing their opinions on evidence (i.e. our performances so far). Your optimisim doesn't seem to be based on anything tangible.

[reynard]

A sensible post.

I was only mentioning Swansea, Norwich and QPR because our resident accessory brought them up when he talked about how impressed he was seeing them play attractive football and winning.

That attractive football has propelled them to the Premier League, but as it seems, they're not coping well. Norwich have a virtually unchanged team, QPR have just brought in new players once they had their financial situation solved and Swansea defend well, but can't score.

What I meant to say is you can look at these team's success by getting promoted to the Premier League, but the run stops at one point. And another begins.

I'm positive we will string a series of results together that will see us moving up the ranks.

Let's give it another handful of games before we start hitting the panic button, shall we?

I think you are right about the "run". The same could apply to those promoted from 1st to Championship. Take us and Leeds for eg. Did well the season we came up but we didn't do so well last season and Leeds have been quite poor so far this. Momentum counts for a lot.

I'm certainly not panicking but don't mention to some that we're only 3? points off the drop zone!

The next 6 games are very important I believe. We don't need to win them all or play great football but we do need a good number of positive results and we mustn't lose touch with the top two.

[MC Prussian]

If we had performed like this last season with run of fixtures we started with, we would probably be in the same position. We have a very easy start this year which is a big concern. The fixtures get a lot harder from now until Xmas.

There are no easy fixtures in the Championship, only fans who think there are easy fixtures in the Championship.

As demonstrated (amongst others) during the 7-1 thrashing of Ipswich at the hands of Peterborough.