Legalise cannabis?

[Houdini Logic]

Sounds a bit airy fairy.

I think convenient is the word you're looking for

[The Doctor]

Education will make no difference to some people... or else nobody would ever take drugs...

so we shouldn't educate the masses because a few won't take it on board.

There is a fairly strong link between wasters and drug addicts - which often leads to a life of crime. Its a vicious circle. Maybe you should open your eyes? An addictive personality? No, I just call them weak-minded and ill-disciplined.

err, that's what an addictive personality is - a combination of lack of discipline and mental weakness. Also, correlation does not imply causation - just because a lot of "wasters" are also addicts doesn't mean being a waster causes people to become an addict.

[davieG]

It's the duty of the NHS to provide statistics on their Emergency department. If you think a minority of incidents, and a VERY small minority indeed that slips through the net of data is the truth, ie what gets posted in the Daily Mail, then you are more than welcome to ignore the facts, and rely on false and misleading reports and fantasy.

Airy-fairy in what regard?

Open to misinterpretation, bias, subjective and incomplete to name but a few possibilities.

[sphericalfox]

I think convenient is the word you're looking for

It's convenient that I have access to factual information/data that proves something false? Yes, how convenient that these professionals should falsify their data, as it benefits them in their day to day slog dealing with afflictions that could be managed with proper policy.

An inconvenient truth if I ever knew one.

[Christoph]

Think some people in this thread need to smoke some weed and chill out a bit

Edited 14 November 2011 by Christoph

[m00nie]

It's the duty of the NHS to provide statistics on their Emergency department. If you think a minority of incidents, and a VERY small minority indeed that slips through the net of data is the truth, ie what gets posted in the Daily Mail, then you are more than welcome to ignore the facts, and rely on false and misleading reports and fantasy.

Airy-fairy in what regard?

so everything that happens in ed gets all recorded... any confrontation and people automatically get blood tested. thats then followed up and the results added to the report.. also taking into account how long drugs can stay in the system for

.im sure staff and police use common sense at times and clam things down. warnings, talking to without the need to report EVERYTHING...

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

I really thought you were more intelligent. I was obviously wrong about you. Just another sad and ignorant person. I just don't understand you. Slag me off all you like. It doesn't bother me. I just feel so sorry for dimwits who can see no problem. Going to have to add you on to my list, which I find sad..

Weak people start on drugs, and are the future dregs of our society. Shame on you. Hope you will all be happy.

Decent people contribute to society, druggies degenerate society.

[lavrentis]

I really thought you were more intelligent. I was obviously wrong about you. Just another sad and ignorant person. I just don't understand you. Slag me off all you like. It doesn't bother me. I just feel so sorry for dimwits who can see no problem. Going to have to add you on to my list, which I find sad..

Weak people start on drugs, and are the future dregs of our society. Shame on you. Hope you will all be happy.

Decent people contribute to society, druggies degenerate society.

[Finnegan]

I really thought you were more intelligent. I was obviously wrong about you. Just another sad and ignorant person. I just don't understand you. Slag me off all you like. It doesn't bother me. I just feel so sorry for dimwits who can see no problem. Going to have to add you on to my list, which I find sad..

Weak people start on drugs, and are the future dregs of our society. Shame on you. Hope you will all be happy.

Decent people contribute to society, druggies degenerate society.

I'm reminded of this:

I think this might actually be how DT views the world. Haha.

[sphericalfox]

so everything that happens in ed gets all recorded... any confrontation and people automatically get blood tested. thats then followed up and the results added to the report.. also taking into account how long drugs can stay in the system for

.im sure staff and police use common sense at times and clam things down. warnings, talking to without the need to report EVERYTHING...

Anyone who gets admitted...there's your key word, get logged. Simple as this.

Yes there are those who walk into A&E, but if they are seen they are logged.

If they decide to bust into a fight for some reason, the police are called and they are either escorted off the premise or they are arrested dependant on the fraca and the discretion of the officers.

When did I ever say that EVERYONE gets blood tested? I stated that medical professionals who see people from every level of society, with every type of inebriation, can and do make judgements apart from medically testing them, as they are showing signs of being on a particular drug, or mix of drugs.

You are trying your best, and I'll give you credit for trying, but as saying your opinion is perhaps based on news reports and maybe pure speculation and mine is based on data/facts from NHS medical professionals, I fail to see where this conversation is going.

[The Doctor]

I really thought you were more intelligent. I was obviously wrong about you. Just another sad and ignorant person. I just don't understand you. Slag me off all you like. It doesn't bother me. I just feel so sorry for dimwits who can see no problem. Going to have to add you on to my list, which I find sad..

Weak people start on drugs, and are the future dregs of our society. Shame on you. Hope you will all be happy.

Decent people contribute to society, druggies degenerate society.

To come out with such a sweeping statement is bullshit.

Jimmy Hendrix, Elvis Presley were drug users, members of, amongst others, The Rolling Stones, The Beatles, The Who, Led Zeppelin, Aerosmith etc. were drug users - all have contributed greatly to society.

[Father Ted]

I really thought you were more intelligent. I was obviously wrong about you. Just another sad and ignorant person. I just don't understand you. Slag me off all you like. It doesn't bother me. I just feel so sorry for dimwits who can see no problem. Going to have to add you on to my list, which I find sad..

Weak people start on drugs, and are the future dregs of our society. Shame on you. Hope you will all be happy.

Decent people contribute to society, druggies degenerate society.

[Houdini Logic]

It's convenient that I have access to factual information/data that proves something false? Yes, how convenient that these professionals should falsify their data, as it benefits them in their day to day slog dealing with afflictions that could be managed with proper policy.

An inconvenient truth if I ever knew one.

All I'm saying is that you easily dismissed opions about being stoned and violent because you are 'someone who actually has access to NHS statistical information on a daily basis' and 'as someone who actually knows that hard facts', but when asked about the specific details you didn't know beacuse you're not 'an actual medical doctor myself, but going off the statistics provided by experts'.

Just seems that you're able to shoot down arguments when they go against what you say and distance yourself when pressed.

[sphericalfox]

I really thought you were more intelligent. I was obviously wrong about you. Just another sad and ignorant person. I just don't understand you. Slag me off all you like. It doesn't bother me. I just feel so sorry for dimwits who can see no problem. Going to have to add you on to my list, which I find sad..

Weak people start on drugs, and are the future dregs of our society. Shame on you. Hope you will all be happy.

Decent people contribute to society, druggies degenerate society.

ig·no·rance/ˈignərəns/

Noun:

Lack of knowledge or information

I think a more forward thinking and knowledgable person might post something less embarrassing if I am being honest.

Nobody is slaggin others on here. There is a conversation about things, and people have their opinions, however there are informed and came to those conclusions. However sometimes it's nice and right to open ones mind, without the aid of mary-jane.

[sphericalfox]

All I'm saying is that you easily dismissed opions about being stoned and violent because you are 'someone who actually has access to NHS statistical information on a daily basis' and 'as someone who actually knows that hard facts', but when asked about the specific details you didn't know beacuse you're not 'an actual medical doctor myself, but going off the statistics provided by experts'.

Just seems that you're able to shoot down arguments when they go against what you say and distance yourself when pressed.

No. what I've said is that someone has stated something as FACT. In their experience in A&E medical professionals stated to them that stoned (from cannabis) patients were more violent than others. This is a falsity. Alcohol is the cause of most hospital violence bar none. FACT. (I don't like using that word in any post, but in this case I will, because it's true)

On that basis, not being a medical professional but only having seen reports from leaders in numerous fields in the NHS and abroad, I never once saw cannabis as a cause or indicator of increased levels of violence at A&E depts.

Now maybe you have data/information that you've seen yourself that you'd like to share about said topic. I, and I know many readers would be interested to see your side of the story. How you've come to your conclusions. So I said my side, let's hear yours. Opinions are usually based on something more concrete than media reports.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

To come out with such a sweeping statement is bullshit.

Jimmy Hendrix, Elvis Presley were drug users, members of, amongst others, The Rolling Stones, The Beatles, The Who, Led Zeppelin, Aerosmith etc. were drug users - all have contributed greatly to society.

ONLY MUSICALLY! Big, big difference, to being a citizen.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

ig·no·rance/ˈignərəns/

Noun:

Lack of knowledge or information

I think a more forward thinking and knowledgable person might post something less embarrassing if I am being honest.

Nobody is slaggin others on here. There is a conversation about things, and people have their opinions, however there are informed and came to those conclusions. However sometimes it's nice and right to open ones mind, without the aid of mary-jane.

Odd post. I do not comprehend it.

Are you on drugs?

[The Doctor]

ONLY MUSICALLY! Big, big difference, to being a citizen.

ey?

The arts - be it musical, or visual - are a part of society. You said druggies are degenerate to society, but some druggies have contributed a great deal to society.

[lavrentis]

Weed isn't even a drug

[Bugg]

Weed isn't even a drug

Neither is Opium.

It's only a plant after all

[I am Rod Hull]

To come out with such a sweeping statement is bullshit.

Jimmy Hendrix, Elvis Presley were drug users, members of, amongst others, The Rolling Stones, The Beatles, The Who, Led Zeppelin, Aerosmith etc. were drug users - all have contributed greatly to society.

And you post about contributions to society with a musician list ?

Thats the worst post i`v ever seen from you mate....

[Houdini Logic]

No. what I've said is that someone has stated something as FACT. In their experience in A&E medical professionals stated to them that stoned (from cannabis) patients were more violent than others. This is a falsity. Alcohol is the cause of most hospital violence bar none. FACT. (I don't like using that word in any post, but in this case I will, because it's true)

On that basis, not being a medical professional but only having seen reports from leaders in numerous fields in the NHS and abroad, I never once saw cannabis as a cause or indicator of increased levels of violence at A&E depts.

Now maybe you have data/information that you've seen yourself that you'd like to share about said topic. I, and I know many readers would be interested to see your side of the story. How you've come to your conclusions. So I said my side, let's hear yours. Opinions are usually based on something more concrete than media reports.

At what point did I say I have evidence to the contrary or my own research? Stop being a clown. I can quite believe that alcohol does contribute to the vast majority of cases of violence in A&E and I've not said anything to the contrary, so please don't harp on about 'hearing my side of the story'.

The issue I have is that you're happy to go on about how you have the 'hard facts', but when asked about the detail you're 'not an expert'.

I'd quite like to know how the experts came to their findings before accepting something as gospel, did they take blood samples? Did they just look at them and guess? Were these just doctors? We're nurses allowed to give accounts? What about people on multiple substances?

Until I know this and information about who and what was recorded this data is meaningless.

[l444ry]

Anyone arguing for legalising cannabis by bracketing it with alcohol has to answer this question - Would it really be a good idea to make yet another mind-altering substance legal and add to the problems social acceptance of alcohol has caused?

If the answer is yes then what sort of message is it that says taking something for no other reason than altering your state of mind is OK?

[sphericalfox]

At what point did I say I have evidence to the contrary or my own research? Stop being a clown. I can quite believe that alcohol does contribute to the vast majority of cases of violence in A&E and I've not said anything to the contrary, so please don't harp on about 'hearing my side of the story'.

The issue I have is that you're happy to go on about how you have the 'hard facts', but when asked about the detail you're 'not an expert'.

I'd quite like to know how the experts came to their findings before accepting something as gospel, did they take blood samples? Did they just look at them and guess? Were these just doctors? We're nurses allowed to give accounts? What about people on multiple substances?

Until I know this and information about who and what was recorded this data is meaningless.

Yet you are basing your information on having had a toke when young, not being impressed and you know some people who smoke cannabis and are dependant. Do you always assume that your own life experiences are generally a consensus for the rest of society?

BTW the health policies of this and every government are based on data extracted from hospitals, and whilst cynical minds might think that all data is corrupt, and none if of it is perfect, if you still beleive that a stoned individual is or is more likely to go into a fit of rage then pity for you, which was the point of my discussion.

Edited 14 November 2011 by sphericalfox

[sphericalfox]

Anyone arguing for legalising cannabis by bracketing it with alcohol has to answer this question - Would it really be a good idea to make yet another mind-altering substance legal and add to the problems social acceptance of alcohol has caused?

If the answer is yes then what sort of message is it that says taking something for no other reason than altering your state of mind is OK?

Everything alters the state of mind. How susceptible a fragile individual is to engaging in inappropriate behaviour in these states of altered mind (be it drink, chocolate, weed, or anything else for that matter) is down to their upbringing, environment, and peer group.