Champions League Final 2012. Chelsea V Bayern.

[Finnegan]

Liverpool were infinitely more deserving champions. Took risks, scored goals, battled it out and played some good football. The first final against Milan was one of the great modern games.

Their path to the final was also far less cynical.

But then, say what you will about Rafa, he really is a tactical genius. Maybe poor at managing a squad or the transfer market but for setting a side out to play big, one-off games I can't think of a better current manager. He's a natural for international management in my opinion.

[ScouseFox]

Tough one. Chelsea's team was poor but there was no Traores involved. They had a few incredible results against Barcelona, and Torres' goal could be up there was one of the most dramatic moments in the last few years.

But if you look through Liverpool's whole run there was comeback after comeback after comeback, with moments of pure class and high drama throughout. Gerrard's goal against Olympiakos itself is up there with one of the best goals I can remember. Garcia against Juve (who were at the time a very, very good Juve team) then everything about that second leg v Chelsea. Granted it wasn't a goal but to go all Gary Neville on you, it was "meant to be" etc.

The final itself was unbelievable. Yes Chelsea were underdogs v Bayern and went behind and came back dramatically and heroically to win on penalties. But Liverpool were 3-0 down after 45 minutes and nobody in the world could even touch Kaka. Obviously we all know the rest, Dudek's heroics etc.

So Liverpool's team was probably weaker and they won it in a more exciting, dramatic fashion. With better football and stuff, too.

[Anorak]

Staggering result last night, as someone who lived and worked in Munich for quite a while i was a little torn though was obliged to back the English club (easier to do as 1860 Munich are much more likeable in my opinion).

As for people saying the competition should revert back to being a strictly "Champions" League....are they saying they'd honestly prefer round after round of:

KS Dinamo Tirana Vs Pyunik FC

Sk Sturm Graz Vs PFC Neftchi Baku

FC BATE Vs FK Borac

etc

Or:

Barcelona Vs Manchester United

Bayern Munich Vs AC Milan

Benfica Vs Arsenal

etc

etc

etc

I know which games id tune in for.

I dunno, maybe it'd make a nice change?

[Finnegan]

Tough one. Chelsea's team was poor but there was no Traores involved. They had a few incredible results against Barcelona, and Torres' goal could be up there was one of the most dramatic moments in the last few years.

But if you look through Liverpool's whole run there was comeback after comeback after comeback, with moments of pure class and high drama throughout. Gerrard's goal against Olympiakos itself is up there with one of the best goals I can remember. Garcia against Juve (who were at the time a very, very good Juve team) then everything about that second leg v Chelsea. Granted it wasn't a goal but to go all Gary Neville on you, it was "meant to be" etc.

The final itself was unbelievable. Yes Chelsea were underdogs v Bayern and went behind and came back dramatically and heroically to win on penalties. But Liverpool were 3-0 down after 45 minutes and nobody in the world could even touch Kaka. Obviously we all know the rest, Dudek's heroics etc.

So Liverpool's team was probably weaker and they won it in a more exciting, dramatic fashion. With better football and stuff, too.

Torres' goal really wasn't all that dramatic. They were already winning and just sealed the game on the counter after parking the bus.

Similarly their "come back" in the final was actually just one individual excelling himself from a set piece after Bayern had practically handed them a get-out clause with diabolical finishing.

I don't mean to seem to be trying to piss on Chelsea's achievement, not at all, despite all I've said you don't ever get a Champions League trophy for free. They've had to work for it and evidently nobody else was more deserving this year.

But I do feel people are over-dramatizing this for the sakes of sentimentality. Maybe I lack your (try not to take this so personally) youthful naivity but I was immensely underwhelmed by both Chelsea's semi final and final.

[ScouseFox]

Torres' goal really wasn't all that dramatic. They were already winning and just sealed the game on the counter after parking the bus.

Similarly their "come back" in the final was actually just one individual excelling himself from a set piece after Bayern had practically handed them a get-out clause with diabolical finishing.

I don't mean to seem to be trying to piss on Chelsea's achievement, not at all, despite all I've said you don't ever get a Champions League trophy for free. They've had to work for it and evidently nobody else was more deserving this year.

But I do feel people are over-dramatizing this for the sakes of sentimentality. Maybe I lack your (try not to take this so personally) youthful naivity but I was immensely underwhelmed by both Chelsea's semi final and final.

Haha no worries.

I dunno, I just think the whole £50m, he's been gash for 18 months, Barcelona are "literally in a different world" to everyone else, Chelsea had 10 men or an hour, were behind and yes they'd have gone through without it but Barca were getting closer and closer to that killer goal and Torres broke free and rounded the keeper so coolly with the pressure of the world on him. I enjoyed it.

And yeah that was my point about Liverpool's efforts being better, because Chelsea did come from behind but it was nowhere near on the scale of Liverpool.

Both remarkable achievements nonetheless, maybe even more so considering we're trying to argue who was the worse team and they both recorded themselves as the best team in Europe in their respective years.

[accessory]

Just watched the celebrations at the end and I've got to say that Bosingwa is one annoying cvnt.

Probably why he fits in so well alongside Terry and Cole..

[accessory]

Its far better now, look at the absolute shit Celtic beat to get to the final.

Quarter-finals FK Vojvodina 0–1 (a) 2–0 (h) 2–1 Semi-finals Dukla Prague 3–1 (h) 0–0 (a) 3–1

Eastern European football was a lot stronger in the 1960s than now. The same could be said for Celtic.

[Webbo]

I think I just hate people who buy in to hyperbole either way. Clearly English football isn't in crisis but also neither are English teams the strongest or the Premier League noticeably superior to the other top flights in Europe.

I feel the people who need to passionately assert either point vehemently annoy me. Especially those who take these one off results out of context and rub them in everyone's faces as if they're making a valid point.

Like the people who got highly sarcastic when Chelsea beat Barca in the semis and started eye rolling at the perceived "fan boys" "bumming" Barcelona expecting us to now see Chelsea as the stronger team. Is anyone stupid enough to believe Chelsea would finish ahead of either the Catalans or the Bavarians over a league season?

But by the same token, anyone professing the death of the Premier League just because City and United had a poor season in Europe needs to calm down and lay off the tabloids.

As I said in the other thread, I love the CL and it throws up some fantastic entertainment but a few rounds of knock out football you can draw your way through isn't really the greatest measuring stick of true brilliance.

For me it is the fact that so many peoples default position on here is everything" English is shit" and seem to take delight in every failure. When I read things like" Chelsea are going to get ripped a new arsehole" and such I can't resist pointing out their mistake. Maybe it's a bit childish but after those heroic wins I was on a bit of a high.

[Daggers]

I just voted Chelsea - yey! I can join in celebrating a team I loathe winning something I don't enjoy watching

[Guest Bilo]

Liverpool were infinitely more deserving champions. Took risks, scored goals, battled it out and played some good football. The first final against Milan was one of the great modern games.

Their path to the final was also far less cynical.

But then, say what you will about Rafa, he really is a tactical genius. Maybe poor at managing a squad or the transfer market but for setting a side out to play big, one-off games I can't think of a better current manager. He's a natural for international management in my opinion.

I couldn't agree more to be honest, always surprised me that he was never put forward by any of the media for the England job when Capello or indeed Hodgson got the gig.

[Guest ttfn]

I couldn't agree more to be honest, always surprised me that he was never put forward by any of the media for the England job when Capello or indeed Hodgson got the gig.

Also agree. Really like Hodgson, but would have been equally (if not more) happy with Benitez.

Can see him coming in for del Bosque after the Euros.

[Finnegan]

For me it is the fact that so many peoples default position on here is everything" English is shit" and seem to take delight in every failure. When I read things like" Chelsea are going to get ripped a new arsehole" and such I can't resist pointing out their mistake. Maybe it's a bit childish but after those heroic wins I was on a bit of a high.

But Chelsea did get ripped a new arsehole, everyone on here was right.

They conceded how many clear cut chances? In the context of history the result is all that matters, I agree, and Chelsea are the champions and - as I said - you don't get given that for free.

But you're not a complete idiot (despite frequent good impressions) and you understand football, as do a lot of people on this forum (although a lot are also complete retards.) Context is important, I watched both the game at Camp Nou and the Allianz Arena and I saw a very average Chelsea grind out a couple of very cynical results with their full compliment of players behind the ball.

They did what they obviously felt was necessary and was within the rules of the game and they came away with the result they wanted, fair enough, but anyone who took the time to watch the game and was distinctly honest about it I'm sure can put their hand up and say - especially as neutrals, which we're supposed to be as City fans (no?) - Chelsea were out-passed, out-shot, out-manoeuvred and simply out played on both occasions and had they not set up two of the most defensive and negative performances in modern footballing history then I would imagine they'd have been completely embarrassed (as they could well have been in Munich, frankly, if Gomez and Robben hadn't bottled it.)

[Webbo]

But you're not a complete idiot (despite frequent good impressions)

I'm not even a slight idiot. You know as well as I do that if the shoe had been on the other foot, if Chelsea had been dominant but lost all the know it alls would have said I told you they were crap.

Part of the fun of being a fan is crowing when you're right. I don't know why you're getting all huffy about it.

[Finnegan]

I don't think I'm getting especially huffy, am I? I'm having a reasonably calm and well mannered discussion.

I can swear at you and get angry if you like?

And yes a few retards would have gloated that Chelsea got hammered but we're City fans and the majority can't stand them so that's reasonable enough. The so called "know it alls" are generally a bunch of kids wanking off over how great Messi is on FIFA, why make yourself look just as big a berk by stooping to their level and spouting nonsense?

[Dan]

ENGLISH FOOTBALL IN CRISIS!!!

The sad thing is people will now think it's better than German football.

[StanSP]

[Jaspa]

Similar thing happened to me in a greenhouse

Came back inside and felt something wriggling on my back, took my shirt off and somebody whacked it off

Chunky legs and a big green ( I think ) spot on it, bout 6cm across

Didn't look native at all

[Finnegan]

lol brilliant.

Was pissing myself every time he was on screen.

[21st Century Fox]

Can Chelsea fans get any more unlikeable?

Yes.... yes they can.

http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/oddballs/900340-robert-mugabe-reveals-hes-a-chelsea-fan-following-champions-league-win

[Jaspa]

That Mugabe 'tache is ridiculous